Do something with SM Underlurker already, TOS has been wasting for nearly 4 months

[Pagy]

having bugs isn't an argument that its too difficult...it means the bugs should be fixed. and after 5 months I would hope one of the two employees that seem to be assigned to swtor cud figure it out.

[Heat-Wave]

There's nothing I'd like more than for them to skip NiM from now until the game closes. It's used by far too few people to warrant its development.

 

The interesting thing about NiM is that the level 50 stuff was so different from the lvl 55 stuff.

 

At level 55, I was able to clear the lvl 50 ops in NiM. Some were indeed quite hard, but they were doable.

 

I find lvl 55 HM ops to still be hard at level 60, and the NiM versions remain stupid, and I'm long since out of anything 186.

 

I do not think the NiM content is balanced very well between 50 and 55. When it comes to 60 ops, SM feels like HM and HM feels like NiM. I've given HM a try on both and that is just pointless. Even in 192/198 gear with full augments, they are so unforgiving as to not be fun.

 

Yes, yes, I'm sure a small handful of people have done them, there is always someone who is more "uber elite", but they are such a small part of the population, who cares?

 

SM should be easy to pug and open to most of the player base. HM should be for guilds and experienced players, NiM should indeed be a challenge, but not so much that only 1% of the players ever do it.

[Heat-Wave]

lurker is easy and it says a lot about swtor gamers that can't complete this encounter.

 

apparently swtor players just wanted to faceroll everything and not have to think about things like moving or distinguishing right from left.

 

<--- EVE Online is that way...

 

SWTOR is clearly not the game for you...

[Heat-Wave]

um

sm lurker can be easily cleared without voice and has no one shot mechanics.

 

Based on the number of posts here... no, it can't be "easily cleared"...

 

Maybe YOU can do it, but you are not reflective of the player base of SWTOR, and you aren't going to get that base to change to suit you.

 

If you're so uber elite, then this isn't the game for you.

[Pagy]

I dont think being able to move to tell left from right makes one "uber elite" but at the end of the day its up to bw to decide if they want to train players into being unskilled button mashing turrets.

[TUXs]

I dont think being able to move to tell left from right makes one "uber elite" but at the end of the day its up to bw to decide if they want to train players into being unskilled button mashing turrets.

 

Train?! Most people just want to enjoy themselves Pagy...this is a video game that requires no special "skills" to play...it's entertainment and Bioware is a business...If it's not entertaining to most players, they'll just quit, which hurts business.

[Shwarzchild]

Based on the number of posts here... no, it can't be "easily cleared"...

 

Maybe YOU can do it, but you are not reflective of the player base of SWTOR, and you aren't going to get that base to change to suit you.

 

If you're so uber elite, then this isn't the game for you.

If we are talking about STRICLTY the underlurker fight computer issues aside then no that fight isn't that bad mechanically. It's simple really. UL hits his chest, red circles fall on floor, get out of them asap so pay attention to your feet, UL jumps at Tank afterwards people go to their sides. Rinse repeat. 4th wave of adds Tank takes UL away from adds and everyone burns boss. That's REALLY simple compared to Dread Palace, and even probably TfB. There are a few minor tweaks like maybe reducing the add health or the damage they do (I think the decrease in add health up to what Tux suggested before of 15 percent...yeah yeah Tux I've come around) But, no it's REALLY not that hard. If your rig is running it fine there really isn't any excuse for not beating it outside of failing the dps check which can happen. I'd say that TfB when it came out, that was far and away harder than ToS.

 

At the end of the day, at least at this point in time based on my experience running ToS pug groups, is there are those who refuse to do anything mechanically correct, those who want to get it and really get involved by asking questions, and those who just have to struggle through that fight because of their rig being sub par which is unfortunate no doubt. There seems to be a high level of players who just don't care about doing anything right. For instance: I was on my sin in sm ToS, and the healer was quite possibly the worst healer I've ever seen in my life. He was an operative, who refused to put probes on players saying that they don't make much of a difference (hmm wrong).. His ehps was a whopping 980. NINE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY. Lucky our other healer put on the big boy pants and just rocked out. Should that kind of player get rewarded with even easier content? In my opinion absolutely not. No way. No way. No way. There has to be a line that separates end game content from leveling content correct?

 

Overall though, sure small tweaks should be made to a small portion of UL to get it in tune with story mode, but the base mechanics as a whole are not crazy hard or even really hardmode levels. No, all operations aren't too much for most people. If they're quitting over it, they'll be back for more soon enough anyway.

[Ruskaeth]

They should just... give the enrage timer extra minute or so. Not that horrible change for sm.

[bdatt]

Even requiring people to "JUMP" just to register is usually fine for NIM groups used to do that, but it's not been a requirement in old ops and most are not used to these silly game issues.

 

The very first boss in EV has red circles. If you moved too late and your position wasn't updated to the server you may look out of the circle on your screen but take damage and/or get rubberbanded back.

 

I notices this the most in Toth and Zorn though, but at the time didn't know jumping was a solution to update your position so just assumed I was bad.

 

It became even more widespread during Corruptor Zero and his anti-gravity field mechanic.

 

So client-server updating issues have been around since Day 1, just now one person's mistake directly affects other people. Although this was sorta there with Operator IX and the walk through the colored circle phase.That may be where the issue lies, requiring individual accountability that affects others.

 

Perhaps if they put a door in front of SM underlurker like grabbing a color in Operator IX, where people have to pick front, back, left, right and if they don't go to their spot only they are affected. Teaches the mechanic while not affecting other group members.

Edited April 13, 2015 by bdatt

[Toweleeeie]

I'm all for nerfing sm.

 

To be fair, this game is very easy compared to a lot of MMOs. For example Titan HM on Final Fantasy 14 has the hardest circles(the stupid) to avoid. You have like .3 seconds, maybe even less to get out.

[EchoDrake]

frankly they need to increase the enrage timer by half a minute to a minute, should give groups more than enough time to clear it. the enrage on that boss is surprisingly tight and can catch up to you if you're not on your toes

[Andrellma]

While he is tuned tightly, he's still perfectly doable. If any changes are made to him, I would be okay with ONE of the following two changes.

 

1) Reduce the health of the adds by between 5% and 10%. This would make them die faster, and increase DPS uptime on the boss.

 

2) Increase the enrage timer through ONE additional cross phase.

 

Doing one of these two would substantially increase the amount of players who successfully PUG this boss, while both would likely trivialize the encounter.

 

Obviously these changes would only apply to story mode. Hardmode would be left untouched.

[ivanhedgehog]

The very first boss in EV has red circles. If you moved too late and your position wasn't updated to the server you may look out of the circle on your screen but take damage and/or get rubberbanded back.

 

I notices this the most in Toth and Zorn though, but at the time didn't know jumping was a solution to update your position so just assumed I was bad.

 

It became even more widespread during Corruptor Zero and his anti-gravity field mechanic.

 

So client-server updating issues have been around since Day 1, just now one person's mistake directly affects other people. Although this was sorta there with Operator IX and the walk through the colored circle phase.That may be where the issue lies, requiring individual accountability that affects others.

 

Perhaps if they put a door in front of SM underlurker like grabbing a color in Operator IX, where people have to pick front, back, left, right and if they don't go to their spot only they are affected. Teaches the mechanic while not affecting other group members.

 

a bug they have never fixed....in all this time..and they dont have the balls to come out and say they wont be fixing it.

[RandyL]

While he is tuned tightly, he's still perfectly doable. If any changes are made to him, I would be okay with ONE of the following two changes.

 

1) Reduce the health of the adds by between 5% and 10%. This would make them die faster, and increase DPS uptime on the boss.

 

2) Increase the enrage timer through ONE additional cross phase.

 

Doing one of these two would substantially increase the amount of players who successfully PUG this boss, while both would likely trivialize the encounter.

 

Obviously these changes would only apply to story mode. Hardmode would be left untouched.

 

They could both reduce the add health by 15% and increase enrage timer and it would still be far from a trivial encounter. If you're facerolling it, congrats. You play with an awesome ops team. It's time to stick to HM and get ready for NiM, SM should not be something you do other than to help guildies or because you're bored.

[AshlaBoga]

a bug they have never fixed....in all this time..and they dont have the balls to come out and say they wont be fixing it.

 

Only solution I've found is that the server automatically updates when you jump, so I get into my part of the cross and then jump up in the air like a wabbit

[Fleurdelis]

Only solution I've found is that the server automatically updates when you jump, so I get into my part of the cross and then jump up in the air like a wabbit

 

And that right there SCREAMS bad mechanic programmed into the operation.

[DarthZaul]

Does anyone know if devastation really does more damage to the boss if you stand between the boss and the role markers than if you stand between the markers and the end of the cross? Someone said it does but I thought thats BS cos the cross is supposed to do the damage as long as its green, wherever you stand.

[Pagy]

Train?! Most people just want to enjoy themselves Pagy...this is a video game that requires no special "skills" to play...it's entertainment and Bioware is a business...If it's not entertaining to most players, they'll just quit, which hurts business.

how do you balance "too easy and boring" with "too hard and frustrating"

 

the truth is, if things were too easy you'd just lose a different sub group

[dbears]

how do you balance "too easy and boring" with "too hard and frustrating"

 

the truth is, if things were too easy you'd just lose a different sub group

 

But Pagy, the sub group he's in is more important than yours..

[FerkWork]

But Pagy, the sub group he's in is more important than yours..

 

That sub group should be in HM not SM. Nerfing lurker won't cause me to just quit my sub at 7/10 HM because they nerfed a SM boss. If you are looking for difficulty give Revan a few pulls on HM

Edited April 15, 2015 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

Does anyone know if devastation really does more damage to the boss if you stand between the boss and the role markers than if you stand between the markers and the end of the cross? Someone said it does but I thought thats BS cos the cross is supposed to do the damage as long as its green, wherever you stand.

 

I don't think so. I usually expect to be dmg regardless of cross color so I usually time my Sonic rebound and DCD just in case.

[Pietrastor]

how do you balance "too easy and boring" with "too hard and frustrating"

Like in other operations? Take DF & DP. DF may have fallen on the easy side at the end, but DP and Council in particular could still wipe pugs. Dificulty was gradually increasing throughout the 2 operations, weeklies were locked before the most demanding bosses and even with everything considered, Council wasn't the PUG nonsense that Lurker is. Bioware is begging to have their second EC that was the most avoided Op in the game up until 3.0. Avoided content is surely not what they hope for, particularly in case of Operations Edited April 15, 2015 by Pietrastor

[Zharik]

Train?! Most people just want to enjoy themselves Pagy...this is a video game that requires no special "skills" to play...it's entertainment and Bioware is a business...If it's not entertaining to most players, they'll just quit, which hurts business.

 

If you want a simple game that's entertaining, play Diablo II. Fun and exceedingly simple. This is not Diablo II.

 

All DPS classes have an optimal rotation or priority list... learn your class and learn it well to perform well. It doesn't take a huge investment of time to get the basics, which will clear ANY storymode fairly easily.

 

Just my $.02

[TUXs]

If you want a simple game that's entertaining, play Diablo II. Fun and exceedingly simple. This is not Diablo II.

 

All DPS classes have an optimal rotation or priority list... learn your class and learn it well to perform well. It doesn't take a huge investment of time to get the basics, which will clear ANY storymode fairly easily.

 

Just my $.02

Plenty of other people seem to be taking your advice. Unlike you, I'd rather this game have a healthy population...something it's lacking atm.

[DarknessInLight]

Yes, voice-chatting seasoned raiders can get past this boss, more casual guilds let alone PUGs roadblock on it over and over. You've admitted yourself only a fraction fo players bothers with TOS, what could possibly be the reason oh my? Maybe because most assume the run won't finish more than 2 bosses? This is the worst SM balancing in any ops in the game ever released, forget the EC Tanks or DP Council, this boss is overdone on every aspect in story mode.

 

It's been 4 MONTHS already, we're gonna be approaching halfway point of the current 2 operations' main life cycle soon and most still either haven't seen 4th and 5th bosses or only few times thx to lockout run.

 

HM level of dps, healing, tacs and co-ordination belong in HM modes.

 

The Underlurker fight is a DPS CHECK. Having said that, so many casuals out there do not understand what "Optimizing your gear" entails. When you get 186 comms gear from Yavin, you are NOT ready to run SM Underlurker on TOS, especially in terms of DPS and Healers. So much of that gear is overloaded with Crit. DPS do NOT need that much. The mods and enhancements in most of that gear MUST be immediately swapped out for matching mods and enhancements that have POWER in them. Healers should take a similar approach to their gear, but it's okay to hold on to a little more crit vs. the DPS. Also, properly augmenting your gear also goes a long way to making sure you are ready for bosses like UL, and by properly augmenting the gear, I mean putting the correct augments in. Level 60 DPS stacking Power instead of Crit can go from a measly 780 bonus damage to a 1250-1300 and that makes a HUGE difference in your numbers!

 

Case in point: I see so many tanks in game right now with 65k HP. I dont need to inspect their gear to discover that they are augmenting their gear with Endurance based augments. THIS IS NOT CORRECT. When you stack Endurance instead of mitigation stats, such as Defense and/or Absorb and Shield, you are hurting your team. Healers need to burn more of their energy pools and spend more time on keeping you up vs. spreading heals out properly among the entire team. It also hurts you as the Tank because your Defensive CD's are not as good as they could potentially be, which again requires the healers to spend more time on you vs. the team. As a Tank, you should not be losing 25% of your health immediately following the initial pull of the boss. Period. Mitigation is the key to having this NOT happen to you and keeping you alive longer.

Edited October 12, 2015 by DarknessInLight