Sometimes I dream there was a "kick" button in PvP.

[DreadtechSavant]

How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara? I mean, serioulsy. I played a match today where 4 out of 8 team members were in all 186/192 gear and sporting less than 1100 expertise. Needless to say we got slaughtered. I simply asked them what they were doing in PvP wearing that gear and I got a tirade of "I dont know WTFyour problem is but ive got 49,000 HP to your 41,000 HP". For the life of me I couldnt get them to understand that a full set of 148 gear would get 2018 expertise, and that I could go toe to toe with them and their 49,000 HP and wipe the floor with them. Its times like this that I wish we could vote "kick" someone out of pvp so we could potentially pick up someone else.

 

I would be very happy to Kick you every time.

You know I have often seen players particularly on fleet station complaining that no one want to do PvP, or why is no one queuing and so on. Be that for PvP Operations or Flashpoints.

 

Well you're the reason. you just do not deserve a group in the first place.

Players learn by playing a-hole. plus can only get that gear by playing, so if its there first few PvP games cannot have the gear because they have not won/ earned it yet . Yes really just wish we could kick players like you. You give the rest of the players a bad name and rep. That and for a lot of players who have never done PvP probably don't even know about Expertize gear because it not generally used in normal play (normal play for lack of a better word) As said they learn by playing not by some other player kicking them off the team. Also assume you don't complain when you win PvP because the other team has players in wrong gear?

Edited March 5, 2015 by DreadtechSavant

[Pagy]

How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara? I mean, serioulsy. I played a match today where 4 out of 8 team members were in all 186/192 gear and sporting less than 1100 expertise. Needless to say we got slaughtered. I simply asked them what they were doing in PvP wearing that gear and I got a tirade of "I dont know WTFyour problem is but ive got 49,000 HP to your 41,000 HP". For the life of me I couldnt get them to understand that a full set of 148 gear would get 2018 expertise, and that I could go toe to toe with them and their 49,000 HP and wipe the floor with them. Its times like this that I wish we could vote "kick" someone out of pvp so we could potentially pick up someone else.

i really really really wish we could votekick people out of warzones.

 

gear, incompetence...being afk...just a host of reasons that kill the enjoyment for people.

Answered my only question right there. 8 team members = Unranked PVP. Playing in those Unranked matches is how you get PVP gear.

 

There's no tutorial bot matches or pee-wee league for those just getting into PVP to start off in - let alone earn their Expertise gear. They have to start / learn somewhere and it sounds like that's exactly where you were choosing to play.

correction: pvp from levels 10-59 is how you get PVP gear. that's the peewee league. that is where you start and learn.

 

once youre 60, you are literally handicapping everyone. plus you can use bolster to help yourself out wearing 186/192 is not helping anyone.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Pagy

[DreadtechSavant]

Wrong Pagy!

A good many only start when they get to 60, I did. Even though I now have the best gear for PvP, players like you and the OP have just stopped me playing PVP. as said you just don't deserve the players to begin with.

[Pagy]

I know right! In the quote below, the process is so convoluted OP couldn't even give exact instructions.

 

 

 

What is this 148 gear? Is that supposed to be the old Conquerer's gear? Can you still even get it or do I need comms for it? I just started PVPing again last week, but I was in full Brutalizer pre 3.0.

 

I'll tell you what I did when I started PVPing again last week. I wore my old Brutalizer gear in a match and got face stomped. So then I put on my lvl 60 raid gear and didn't get face stomped. Not only that i finished in the top of leaderboards with that raid gear gear. I mainly tank, but even in an Arena with the raid gear on and 3 other DPS on my team with full expertise I finished 2nd in DPS out of 4 and they out geared me expertise wise. I've got screenshots of this too (you know because I've got an ego and all.)

 

In my experience, crap pvp gear is not giving me any advantage over my raid gear. I'm not going to go to the Gav and try to min/max gear that I'm only going to have for a few weeks until I have enough comms to have a full level 60 PVP set. Come on man, it's regular warzones, not ranked. You're being unrealistic.

 

People do regs to get comms so they can gear up. You win some and you lose some, but I find wins comes from having a competent team in regs, not gear. You can have all the gear in the world, but if you're so focused on killing people and are not helping advance the huttball, guard pylons, etc, then you are no good to me.

beating another awful group of 4 doesnt make your group good. or you valuable with no gear.

 

all it means is that they were too foolish for not identifying how quickly and easily you could have been dispatched.

 

i'm not saying that all people are useless in pve gear in regs. regs have terribles on both sides so it balances out mostly. sometimes this isnt the case and one team will cut through another because the bw matchmaking genie decides to put all of the useless players on one team. i've seen terribly geared players contribute, and i've seen others just stand there keyboard turning and finishing with 15k dmg. that's the person i would votekick.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Pagy

[Pagy]

Wrong Pagy!

A good many only start when they get to 60, I did.

i realize this. and these people are making a foolish decision only handicapping themselves and their team mates.

Even though I now have the best gear for PvP, players like you and the OP have just stopped me playing PVP. as said you just don't deserve the players to begin with.

if you dont enjoy pvp then i dont imagine you'd be missed.

[jovianus]

Or ya know, instead of stroking your e-peen and ranting at them for being idiots ruining the game, and therefore turning more people off to PVP, you could run through the match, and then afterward politely offer to explain bolster to them and why different gear is better, because:

 

1. Bolster isn't explained in game like...at all.

2. It's not exactly intuitive that outdated PVE gear makes you better at endgame PVP

Edited March 5, 2015 by jovianus

[Papazmurf]

beating another awful group of 4 doesnt make your group good. or you valuable with no gear.

 

all it means is that they were too foolish for not identifying how quickly and easily you could have been dispatched.

 

Exactly. If I was queuing for ranked, they would have noticed that. My point is, it isn't ranked. The rest of your post echoes my exact sentiment. Regs if full of all sorts. Being in the wrong gear isn't likely to be the reason you lose. That, and for most being the in the wrong gear is only temporary until they can get their PVP gear.

[Zoom_VI]

. To expect the average SWTOR player to fully understand its mechanics without any direct detailed explanation or description from BW is foolhardy.

Haven't you heard, you're supposed to be omnipotent and clairvoyant.

 

Why do people keep repeating this? This isn't 2.0a.

 

This is how bolster works

If you are wearing gear over 162 you get reduced expertise.

 

This isn't rocket science.

[TUXs]

How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara?

Why is this the players fault? Why blame the person trying to PvP for this? If you were new to this game and PvP in it, what would you wear? What kind of idiot WOULDN'T wear his best possible gear?

 

This is a problem with Bolster, not the players. People use common sense, common sense dictates that I should wear the best armor I have to give me the best possible chance of living - wouldn't you agree?!

 

Stop blaming players for the stupidity of how Bolster works...anyone with any common sense would do the same damn thing.

 

How it SHOULD work is:

PvP gear?

• If yes, cool

• If no, Brutalizer stats

 

The way it works right now is absolutely contrary to anything players should ever expect.

 

Don't kick these players, HELP THEM!

[TUXs]

Why do people keep repeating this? This isn't 2.0a.

 

This is how bolster works

If you are wearing gear over 162 you get reduced expertise.

 

This isn't rocket science.

 

No it's not rocket science, it's stupid. It goes 100% against every instinct any player trying PvP has. Wear worse gear to fight other players?! WHAT THE FLIP?!

[Pagy]

Exactly. If I was queuing for ranked, they would have noticed that. My point is, it isn't ranked. The rest of your post echoes my exact sentiment. Regs if full of all sorts. Being in the wrong gear isn't likely to be the reason you lose. That, and for most being the in the wrong gear is only temporary until they can get their PVP gear.

i agree with all of this.

 

still would be nice to vote kick some people. i've seen people in the best gear just go afk on nodes and lose them losing the game for everyone...or some people that dont contribute at all. while gear is a "red flag" i doubt anyone would be kicked by a majority unless they werent contributing at all. or at least i would hope.

[Lionflash]

ELI5: What is the difference in stats between blue 148 and PVE gear?

 

How much is the % difference in stats overall if you had to put a number on it? 148s are... 5% better? 10% better? 50% better?

 

I 've played with the 172s Rishi Basics while I gear for PVP on new 60 toons and don't really notice a difference.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Lionflash

[Daxy]

Judging by the responses it appears that biowares derpolster is misunderstood by many many peeps still

[TUXs]

Judging by the responses it appears that biowares derpolster is misunderstood by many many peeps still

 

Why wouldn't it be? WHO the hell wears crappy armor into PvP? ONLY in Bioware's plan does it make sense...Bolster should be so simple, yet it's one of the most complex beasts in this game. How hard is it to understand that wearing your best gear into PvP, is common sense?!

 

Bolster needs to be flat lined to common stats if you don't have the gear you need. Brutalizer stats for a baseline for every player. If they ever up the tier, that baseline changes up as well. Whatever the previous 2nd best set was, that should always be the Bolstered stat.

[bwherbert]

I PvP casually in my raid gear (192/198) and do just fine. You would have a legitimate gripe if you were referring to ranked arenas....but unranked warzones? C'mon man, lighten up....nobody takes warzones seriously haha.

[Papazmurf]

I PvP casually in my raid gear (192/198) and do just fine. You would have a legitimate gripe if you were referring to ranked arenas....but unranked warzones? C'mon man, lighten up....nobody takes warzones seriously haha.

 

I keep saying the point of this thread kind of falls apart since he isn't talking about Ranked. The vote-kick solution might be nice, but not for the reasons OP mentioned.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Papazmurf

[Transcendent]

Do you know why I never participated in PvP from the get-go? Because it is always about gear and stats and never about skill. They quickly rush to pad up their stats and because they possess better gear than you, it makes them think they are somehow superior - these are the same people you see roaming in groups and harassing other players in open-world PvP and are never the first to challenge someone one versus one, and if they lose you hear a stream of excuses.

 

Sounds like PvE.

 

I don't roam in groups to kill players PvP flagged in the open world, and I never back out of a 1v1 if challenged, as well as frequently challenging my friends (to their annoyance sometimes ). Try not to be too judgemental though in your opinion of PvP players, or stereotype us etc etc.

 

Point in fact, I can understand the frustration of the OP, as well as completely believe the responses given when raising the issue.

 

I tend to look through other players stats once in a while, now I just tend to know when someone is in PvE gear due to HP (on the odd occasion someone has actually swapped mods and stacked HP for fun though ).

 

However, I do not ever want to see the "kick" from warzone option - it would be abused, for all of the wrong reasons.

[Phorenzyk]

There is a vote to kick, but (un?)fortunately it's invisible - there's no popped up dialog for everyone else. No one else will know you voted unless you tell them to go vote. Even then, the person being voted for can easily nullify this by getting into combat, which registers them as contributing and not being a waste of space that should be kicked.

[GadgetDon]

On my current sub-level alt, M'garra, I've done a lot of warzones. Won some, lost many, had fun. I'm 54th level right now, and it's clear I'm going to have to stop it when I hit 60 because it's such "serious business". Thou shalt keep multiple armors for warzones, switch them out, must use the bolster checker thingie that I'd never heard of before this.

 

I'd heard bolster was SNAFU'ed beyond reason, but what I'm hearing in here is worse than I thought. If I wanted to create a system to discourage PVP from people who didn't make it their primary focus, I'm not sure I could do better.

[DomiSotto]

The problem is not that you pugged with a specific individual in 186/192. That individual will eventually gear up or quit queueing.

 

The problem is that the bolster systematically creates a category of players at a disadvantage. The very problem the Bolster was trying to address when everyone went in in what they’ve got.

 

What TUXs suggested is the only solution that is intuitive.

 

Baring embracing the intuitive…

 

Yesterday, I forgot to put a crystal in my newly acquired Exhumed off-hand. The moment I loaded, the pop-up on the screen alerted me that a piece of gear has less Expertise than is optimal; I immediately exited and fixed the oversight. In my view, this pop-up should come up every time someone loads a zone from midbies on without the 2018 expertise. That at least will make the player curious about the better ways of equipping him or herself and, maybe even read L-Randle’s passionate thread.

 

I agree that the match/death zone is not a good time to try to explain the bolster. I have seen someone react strongly negatively to a neutral explanation taking it for a blame game.

 

And there should absolutely be a gear-based gate to the ranked entry.

 

That's said I am against the vote-kicks in either regs or ranked.

 

I love regular PvP because it is the playground for learning and experimenting with classes and roles.

 

I have never tried ranked, so take this with a saltshaker full…

 

There is a mechanism to ensure that you can only play with people you trust, that’s the group category. It’s the least popular activity in the whole game, despite the complaints on how bad the solo queue matchmaking is.

 

TBH, I think that I’d rather see groups and solo bunched together to encourage open and legal grouping up, rather than the vote-kicks to gamble that a reshuffle will update the comp in your favor or the clandestine Q-sync.

[branmakmuffin]

But all it takes is some forum or google searching to learn what gear to wear and what not to wear. Like I said, Im not a PvP god by any stretch of the imagination, but I just see so many people in PvP wearing their level 60 raid gear.

I don't PvP and even I know at the bare minimum, you equip your character so that it has 2018 Expertise (and then min-max from there). So there's really no excuse.

[NoahRedden]

I'm glad there isn't. You know people do PVP just for fun and not take it so seriously?. I play PVP for fun, and i'm not the best. But it would suck to get constantly kicked out of warzones just because i'm not good, that is very ignorant. Let players have fun and don't take it so seriously. Kicking players out of warzones just because they aren't good is rude, and I see why Bioware wont add this feature.

[Pagy]

I PvP casually in my raid gear (192/198) and do just fine. You would have a legitimate gripe if you were referring to ranked arenas....but unranked warzones? C'mon man, lighten up....nobody takes warzones seriously haha.

i guarantee you that if i saw a player such as yourself in 192/198 gear on the opposing team, you'd do far from fine.

 

identifying people that can be quickly dispatched in regs is pretty important and in 192s i would probably kill you in under 5 seconds.

[Papazmurf]

i guarantee you that if i saw a player such as yourself in 192/198 gear on the opposing team, you'd do far from fine.

 

identifying people that can be quickly dispatched in regs is pretty important and in 192s i would probably kill you in under 5 seconds.

 

I'm betting the vast majority of people don't have your mindset or even know about the bolster issues. Also if it's only you that notices it and the rest of your team is garbage, well it doesn't really matter. Again, this all evens out in regular warzones unless you're running a pre-made, but even if guys were soloing in appropriate gear, going against a premade would be tough.

 

In practice, I guarantee you, most people aren't seeing issues *real or perceived* going into reg WZs with raid gear. People keep saying, guys in raid gear are just playing bad teams or other teams with just as bad gear. The thing is, that's the usual scenario! People don't tend to change things unless it's broken for them. If guys are finding ways to contribute and win with crap gear, (or even finishing top of leader boards...) I just don't see the problem. I bet some people do it on purpose just to prove a point.

 

My view of this issue for ranked is a complete 180, I just don't think reg wz mean or are worth anything. Maybe that's my issue.

[Trowaxe]

I enjoy putting people like the OP on ignore and then continue to queue to do my dailies. I have a few characters with 2018 expertise purely from doing dailies and the amount of whining has been most enjoyable as I got there.

 

These are unranked war zones. When I'm playing one of my characters with full expertise and someone starts complaining about new players, I tell the complainer to just quit. Most of the time I get a response like one the whining OP would give. His response is to just afk the match. Which type has the greater negative impact now?

 

Instead of WHINING about this.... How about you make suggestions and petition to bioware that they put a third vendor in the pvp area of the fleet for each class. Label it as "beginner pvp gear" and sell it for cheap amounts of credits. let them get 2018 expertise. People are not going to go find a pvp vendor on another ship in the fleet that sells pvp gear from previous seasons or for level 55. It's been stated already. For new players they think they should wear the best gear they have. I know people will still wear pve gear, but the number will be reduced with cheap gear right there.