No Unload, no problem?

[Zoom_VI]

pretty lame. mostly from a pvp perspective. YES i understand that PT dps and tanking is a melee spec and should be up between 4m and 8m, but in pvp there's a billion and a half knockbacks and roots. unload was great in pvp while i was focusing the healing sorc for instance and he hits that knockback with the talent that roots you to the ground for several seconds afterwards.

 

[...]

Thermal, rail, sticky, rapid shots.

 

Trust me I can say with absolute certainty that the only time you should be using unload in PvP is if you are trolling.

[AndoEyrune]

I believe there is a utility that allowed (now that it is now pointless) you to use Unload while moving under the Heroic section but yes, you are correct..

That utility was for merc DPS, which are ranged and use unload regularly in their rotation.

[TheProdigyNZ]

[...]

Thermal, rail, sticky, rapid shots.

 

Trust me I can say with absolute certainty that the only time you should be using unload in PvP is if you are trolling.

 

Did you even read my post? My Shield Tech had more abilities that that in my rotation. Also to the other guy, I could go range or melee depending on who I was fighting. If I was up against a sentinel or marauder I would spam flame burst while running backwards and use rail shot and a couple other mobile abilities and I would destroy them. Or if I was knockbacked or stunned I could easily use my grapple or jetcharge. I'm telling everyone now that I came out good in PvP. But also in PVE, I got the most uses out of unload in PVE. Now I don't know what the other guy was talking about "PVP perspective"

[Zoom_VI]

Did you even read my post? My Shield Tech had more abilities that that in my rotation. Also to the other guy, I could go range or melee depending on who I was fighting. If I was up against a sentinel or marauder I would spam flame burst while running backwards and use rail shot and a couple other mobile abilities and I would destroy them. Or if I was knockbacked or stunned I could easily use my grapple or jetcharge. I'm telling everyone now that I came out good in PvP. But also in PVE, I got the most uses out of unload in PVE. Now I don't know what the other guy was talking about "PVP perspective"

 

You do realize that the specific reason cited by the devs for the removal of unload from PTs was because it gave them a damage (and thus threat) advantage over the other tanks in the current content since it allowed much better threat generation from range.

 

That why it was removed.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[LordCamTheGreat]

Can we have a wristblaster for Powertechs now, so that we actually only fight with our armor? We could even get a new ability that some enemys already have called "Wrist blaster burst" or something.

 

Vanguards could get an actual Arcthrower or a grenade launcher.

 

 

How about, vanguards and powertechs gain storm and jet charge, lose the pistol, gain a techblade or vibroblade and gain a wristblaster.

[TheProdigyNZ]

You do realize that the specific reason cited by the devs for the removal of unload from PTs was because it gave them a damage (and thus threat) advantage over the other tanks in the current content since it allowed much better threat generation from range.

 

That why it was removed.

 

Well thanks for proving my point even more. If what you say is true, It wasn't a useless ability for powertechs.

[Qaoz]

"2 + 2 =5"

"No, 2 + 2 = 4"

"His 2 + 2=5."

"I'm sorry but that's not how it works."

"You're an elitist and a bully!"

 

Zoom's only error was dignifying you with a response.

 

For large values of 2, the guy isn't wrong...

 

ex

2.4 (~2) + 2.4 (~2) = 4.8 (~5).

 

Sorry, I've nothing else to add to this thread, but your analogy tickled my math degree.

[Halinalle]

How about, vanguards and powertechs gain storm and jet charge

 

You have to lose Harpoon/Grapple or Hold the Line/Hydraulic Overrides. None of the other classes have 3 gap closers. Assassins/Shadows have two and even that requires tank discipline.

[Pagy]

You're "issues" are your problem.... people can play however the hell they want. Nobody died and made you king so unless you actually have something other than your opinions supported by condescension, don't say it at all. And no they were NOT spreading misinformation.... they were simply saying that they used the ability as a core ability NOT that the ability was a core ability. Also, where's your logic? What's the point is criticizing somebody's personal choice in using Unload as a core ability when, now, we can no longer use it? As far as I can tell, this nerf is something you wanted and are now just rubbing salt in the wound well I have only one thing to say to that..... you are a

.

I think its fine that you want this ability but but the fact of the matter is that this ability was barely used by those of us that play this class at a high level. unload wasn't even on my bar. losing it doesn't affect our gameplay at all.

 

now, for rp reasons or whatever ya I can understand youre upset. but losing this useless ability is not a concern in the end.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Pagy

[Bluegrace]

You shouldn't be using unload to begin with.

 

I do not understand this comment at all. There are both tank and dps specs of the PT as a PT tank, Unload was very much the keystone of the tank spec. There are three tank classes in SWTOR each with unique abilities. The PT was designed to act as a ranged tank. Our abilities are designed around being able work at range. Our AOE taunt works at range. Missles, rail shot, unload, etc, are all designed for the mobility of class. Being able to move in and out of melee to control the mobs positioning and still be able to maintain threat made the Powertech have a unique role and provide a powerful resource for the raid. It's removal creates a void that serves only to gimp the ability to move to range. It effectively redesigns the tanking role of the class. I am very sad to see it removed.

Previous experience tells me that huge nerfs are usually a response to an extremely small, but extremely vocal minority. I agree with one of the previous posts that requested that we be given a reason for this nerf. It seems to me to be nonsense and I would really like to know the reasoning behind it. Seriously, if the other class are so far behind as to require the entire removal of a core ability, then I would suggest the answer would be to look close at that classes.

I wish I could do more than complain about this, however since the problem is unclear it is hard for me to offer a solution. But for what it is worth I would offer this. If the dps from UNLOAD was truly an imbalance in the game, and adding dps to the other tank classes is not a viable option, then adjust it's dps while maintaining its threat potential. Or at the very least, add to the threat generation of Rapid shot so that we can use that ability in the role that Unload previously filled.

[Vandriss]

This ^.

 

I just level up a new powertech from level 1 to 60 last November and now you smart EA are taking away this ability from us, cool.

 

I'm taking away from you my sub....have fun!

Lol.

 

Unsubbing for losing Unload. The responses from some people to this change are ridiculous.

[Vandriss]

I do not understand this comment at all. There are both tank and dps specs of the PT as a PT tank, Unload was very much the keystone of the tank spec. There are three tank classes in SWTOR each with unique abilities. The PT was designed to act as a ranged tank.

Bioware specifically stated that the PT was designed to be a melee class with moderate ranged options:

The Powertech/Vanguard was designed to play optimally in the 4 to 10 meter range, and this change promotes that ideal. Furthermore, we tend to avoid implementing too many channeled abilities for melee classes (which we consider the Powertech and Vanguard).

Edited March 17, 2015 by Vandriss

[OOJames]

Bioware specifically stated that the PT was designed to be a melee class with moderate ranged options:

 

If the problem was the 30m range of fullauto/unload then they should have just limited it to 10 m for VG/PT and given Commandos/Mercs a passive ability increasing it to the 30 m range. This has been done with the consular/sorc telekineticthrow/lightning so why not for trooper/bountyhunter?

 

The short of it is, removing the ability has left a sizable gap in the Tanking rotation to be filled with what??? Spamming hammer shot seems boring and the other abilities risk you losing too much resources. (I'm sure there will be one person here who seems to think you can use ion pulse or explosive round or something similar instead and this won't be an issue but in long fight it will). As for the increasing movement argument that's ridiculous, you simply dont use full auto when you need to move, simple as that. It makes no change to a tanks movability.

 

I say bring it back!! If there really is a problem then nerf the dmg output for VG/PT and decrease the range to 10m. I personally like channeled abilities. It means I can have a drink whilst my character does some dmg. Not a fan of button bashing classes. That was the appeal of the VG for me otherwise I'd play Guardian/Jugg. (Before anyone says I tried shadow and didn't like the class either).

 

BRING BACK OUR CHANNELS

[undies]

This thread is sad. The amount of people QQ'ing about unload is pathetic. You should be diverting all your QQ to whats now going on in PTS, not an ability you couldn't even fully fit into a proper rotation. You had to clip it to make it work in DPS specs. Every quality PT would not use it as it would ruin clean rotations. Complaining about the loss of it for avoiding mechanics from ranged? Assassin's laugh at your plight right now.

 

To bring it back they would have to make it 10m (as they're on a melee attack right now), and tanks would definitely lose it.

 

So who would use it then? Only really bad PTs at that point, which appears to be 80% of this thread.

Edited March 17, 2015 by undies

[DarkSaberMaster]

My point is simply this whether you used unload or not, no skill should ever be removed unless it is so overpowered that it unbalances the game. This is a "RPG" as in roll playing. I play on a RP server and could care less about min/maxing or best gear or top scores. It's about the roll playing for me and from that point of view what bounty hunter is going to carry a blaster pistol and not whip it out and "unload" on someone.

Next point if we as a player base allow skills to be removed without a really good reason sooner or later they will remove a skill you do care about and you will have no ground to stand on because you allowed it in the past.

 

Give this person a gold star. They get it.

[DikarZloney]

How about, vanguards and powertechs gain storm and jet charge, lose the pistol, gain a techblade or vibroblade and gain a wristblaster.

 

I like this point. That would be pretty ******.

[BishopSMASH]

Its removal does not affect gameplay, doesn't break the class, doesn't make any specs irrelevant. Nobody brought a PT/VG to raids because they had full auto/unload

 

Unload/FA was irrelevant for every spec. Waste of energy for tanks due to suffering constant pushback since you're a tank and taking hits. Shouldn't be used in opener especially for that and mobility reasons, would generate more threat/shield screens using ion shot, and in the rest of the fight, you're a tank. Your little 30 DPS "increase" is irrelevant to clearing the boss.

 

Dps specs didn't need it since they had better fillers. There's a reason no VG/PT spec had buffs to it like they do to other abilities.

 

New players now have one less ability to fumble around with and learn their proper rotations if they want to play well.

 

And for the rest of the people crying about looks and precious RP, get over it. Endgame balancing takes priority over "RP Balancing" or whatever delusions you had about such. If you want to look cool and not be affected by proper endgame play, go play a single player game of your choice.

 

Good job BW for removing Full Auto/Unload. Now fix sages/sorcs and maras/sents.

[HaemmernZeit]

Unload/FA was irrelevant for every spec. Waste of energy for tanks due to suffering constant pushback since you're a tank and taking hits. Shouldn't be used in opener especially for that and mobility reasons, would generate more threat/shield screens using ion shot, and in the rest of the fight, you're a tank. Your little 30 DPS "increase" is irrelevant to clearing the boss.

 

You obviously never played tank, because unload was a great ability and made the spec fun. The ability shouldn't be used in an opener and I never suffered significant pushback from it. You obviously never beat a boss with only one or two people left alive...

 

You do realize that the specific reason cited by the devs for the removal of unload from PTs was because it gave them a damage (and thus threat) advantage over the other tanks in the current content since it allowed much better threat generation from range.

That why it was removed.

If only sins didn't have a 30 m ability.

[BishopSMASH]

You obviously never played tank, because unload was a great ability and made the spec fun. The ability shouldn't be used in an opener and I never suffered significant pushback from it. You obviously never beat a boss with only one or two people left alive...

 

 

If only sins didn't have a 30 m ability.

 

If there is any prime example of a horrid implication which holds no truth to it, achieved by total immaturity and desperation to be correct, it's your first statement.

 

I've tanked progression since 2.0 was released, never switched to any other role. Not ONCE have any of my groups wiped on a boss, enrage or otherwise, and the raid lead, or me, or my cotank, or ANYONE said "well gee lex, if you had JUST used unload one more time, we'd have cleared it."

 

Your argument is that I should have used it because it was fun, and since I didn't I clearly don't tank. Kay. I'm not going to repeat what I said in my original post because obviously such a broad claim would imply that you read and comprehended everything I said, right?

 

Please actually refute what I said instead of saying it's fun and then giving a vague example that never happens because you know why? My raid groups don't clear top tier bosses because of full auto. We clear it by playing the mechanics and our classes right. And I doubt that can be said for many people in this thread.

 

Full auto was useless in practicality. Good riddance to it.

Edited March 19, 2015 by BishopSMASH

[Rocknrollmartian]

this thread and this forum since the removal are absolute comedy gold.

 

Unload is a useless ability for non-tank PTs and is way too powerful comparatively for tank PTs. it has no place for the class outside of very specific niche uses and if you ever integrated it as a 'core' part of your rotation as a non-PVE tank PT you are simply bad at playing the class, pure and effing simple.

 

'but it's my opinion that the ability is useful!'

 

your 'opinion' means nothing when it comes to optimal play. In the realm of optimal play this ability has absolutely no use outside of very niche PVE situations. it has literally no place whatsoever in PVP, ever. your opinion doesn't increase DPS. it doesn't increase the utility of this ability and it doesn't make this ability appealing to anyone with half a brain. the absolute simple FACT, and yes it is a fact, is that if you ever used unload as a central part of your PT DPS rotation you were playing sub-optimally and it isn't the developers' intention to cater to people who gimp themselves or to promote sub-optimal play, whether it's your 'opinion' that unload is totally rad or not.

 

'but PTs are a ranged tank class!'

 

no they aren't, as explicitly per BioWare's comments on the ability.

 

'but RP!'

 

as an RPer I can safely say if your RP is so unimaginative and chained to the strictest interpretation of game mechanics that the removal of Unload just totally ruined your immersion, you are a very bad RPer.

 

BioWare was seriously doing all of you awful scrubs a favor by getting rid of this ability for PTs.

[Zoom_VI]

If only sins didn't have a 30 m ability.

 

You do realize that the 30m skills assassins have are being dropped down to 10m in the next patch.

[HaemmernZeit]

If there is any prime example of a horrid implication which holds no truth to it, achieved by total immaturity and desperation to be correct, it's your first statement.

 

I've tanked progression since 2.0 was released, never switched to any other role. Not ONCE have any of my groups wiped on a boss, enrage or otherwise, and the raid lead, or me, or my cotank, or ANYONE said "well gee lex, if you had JUST used unload one more time, we'd have cleared it."

 

Your argument is that I should have used it because it was fun, and since I didn't I clearly don't tank. Kay. I'm not going to repeat what I said in my original post because obviously such a broad claim would imply that you read and comprehended everything I said, right?

 

Please actually refute what I said instead of saying it's fun and then giving a vague example that never happens because you know why? My raid groups don't clear top tier bosses because of full auto. We clear it by playing the mechanics and our classes right. And I doubt that can be said for many people in this thread.

 

Full auto was useless in practicality. Good riddance to it.

 

Actually refute, fine, unload did more damage and used less heat than two flambursts. My response of clearing with only one or two people left alive was to show that sometimes, every little bit of dps helps, whether from a tank, a dps, or a healer. Just because you thought it was useless doesn't mean it was. Another example would be sever tendon for concealment op. Most people wouldn't use it, but the op dps in my group does and he has the highest op parse. What BW should have done is reduced the damage of unload, not remove it completely. In pvp, I now only have one ability I can use on a sin that has shroud up.

 

And zoom, recklessness force lightning. A horrible way to get 30m on a sin, but still better than what juggs have.

[FerkWork]

As a tank, my dps has remained consistent since the removal so I don't know why people like ability bloat. Now get rid of Missile Blast or make it do something as that is truly the most worthless attack past lv 10. Edited March 19, 2015 by FerkWork

[BishopSMASH]

Actually refute, fine, unload did more damage and used less heat than two flambursts. My response of clearing with only one or two people left alive was to show that sometimes, every little bit of dps helps, whether from a tank, a dps, or a healer. Just because you thought it was useless doesn't mean it was. Another example would be sever tendon for concealment op. Most people wouldn't use it, but the op dps in my group does and he has the highest op parse. What BW should have done is reduced the damage of unload, not remove it completely. In pvp, I now only have one ability I can use on a sin that has shroud up.

 

And zoom, recklessness force lightning. A horrible way to get 30m on a sin, but still better than what juggs have.

 

There we are, a good point. Now we have something to discuss.

 

I conceded in my original post that sure, it added a bit of dps for tanks. My issue with it was the pushback you suffer as a tank, first, and second you had plenty of more mobile abilities that allowed for performing mechanics while generating threat, which you could not do if you were channelling unload on cool down. I would rarely use it, and when I did use it, it was usually accompanied by a "yolo" in TS. It held no place in any part of my rotation, yet I never lost threat, which is far more important than dps for a tank.

 

In most every pull the first several seconds of a pull are dedicated to the tanks getting the boss into position. They could not do that if they were channeling unload, so the little dps, thus threat, increase that came with it was outweighed by the demand to perform mechanics. Torque, bulo, lurker, sparky, master if you're the tank who grabs him, malaphar depending on raid strat. And that's just for current bosses. Older tier bosses this is applicable to are grob, draxus, raptus, council etc. You could not channel it when movement is required, which is often in tanks, especially openers, where threat is most important to generate. So in that time spent moving you would generate more threat going through a typical rotation without unload. PT tanks already generated enough snap threat with shoulder cannon and a good opener that did not include unload to render said ability's threat irrelevant.

 

The point being it's a cost vs benefit to using it. You could use it in the stationary parts of the fight for a little dps gain, but besides the .01% of times where that MIGHT equal a clear (though usually when bosses are cleared when only one person is left standing it's because a sage put weaken mind and/or mind crush on the boss and barriered, reducing that percent even further) it really added no benefit to the tank. Threat matters more than dps for a tank, and all you really need to do to maintain threat in the rest of a fight is a taunt.

 

That is why I stand by my point that it held no relevance to a pt tank, and why it's perfectly fine for it to be removed.

Edited March 20, 2015 by BishopSMASH

[Ryuku-sama]

There we are, a good point. Now we have something to discuss.

 

I conceded in my original post that sure, it added a bit of dps for tanks. My issue with it was the pushback you suffer as a tank, first, and second you had plenty of more mobile abilities that allowed for performing mechanics while generating threat, which you could not do if you were channelling unload on cool down. I would rarely use it, and when I did use it, it was usually accompanied by a "yolo" in TS. It held no place in any part of my rotation, yet I never lost threat, which is far more important than dps for a tank.

 

In most every pull the first several seconds of a pull are dedicated to the tanks getting the boss into position. They could not do that if they were channeling unload, so the little dps, thus threat, increase that came with it was outweighed by the demand to perform mechanics. Torque, bulo, lurker, sparky, master if you're the tank who grabs him, malaphar depending on raid strat. And that's just for current bosses. Older tier bosses this is applicable to are grob, draxus, raptus, council etc. You could not channel it when movement is required, which is often in tanks, especially openers, where threat is most important to generate. So in that time spent moving you would generate more threat going through a typical rotation without unload. PT tanks already generated enough snap threat with shoulder cannon and a good opener that did not include unload to render said ability's threat irrelevant.

 

The point being it's a cost vs benefit to using it. You could use it in the stationary parts of the fight for a little dps gain, but besides the .01% of times where that MIGHT equal a clear (though usually when bosses are cleared when only one person is left standing it's because a sage put weaken mind and/or mind crush on the boss and barriered, reducing that percent even further) it really added no benefit to the tank. Threat matters more than dps for a tank, and all you really need to do to maintain threat in the rest of a fight is a taunt.

 

That is why I stand by my point that it held no relevance to a pt tank, and why it's perfectly fine for it to be removed.

 

Your point is just based on pre-3.0 information. Pushback for channeled abilities doesn't exist anymore in 3.0.