What's the status on 12xXP?

[SelinaH]

And you believe that F2P players would be opposed to a 12x XP boost???

 

(Besides, F2P players hardly factor in to decision making since they contribute very little to the income of BW)

Oh, I'm not arguing either way. I'd definitely use a 12x XP boost.

 

I'm just nitpicking about sampling procedures. because a skewed sample often results in skewed and consequently unreliable data. I think (assuming 12x XP would be opt-in through a toggle or consumable boost) the percentage of players who would use the XP boost isn't going to matter as much as the actual number of players who'd be willing to shell out for one, anyway.

[EllieAnne]

You have a burden of proof.

 

The nature of your argument is that anyone who disagrees with you wants to control how you play the game and they don't. They are instead advocating that the rules not be changed to accommodate you for purely selfish/'entitlement complex' reasons.

 

You need to _justify_ that the change you want is going to be beneficial. Short term activity when 12x was a perk for pre-buying an expansion is not a true demonstration of the affect this could have on the game if it were a long term/unlockable/whatever benefit.

 

So do your due diligence and justify how this will be beneficial to the game as a whole, how it will benefit even those players who don't meet the criteria you arbitrarily set for who gets the 12x XP and meet your burden of proof. You want the change, justify it.

 

Justify it.

 

I think the twelvers have justified it. There are many anecdotes from people that would be willing to be more active with new toons if they did not have to grind. I have 4 toons on a PvP server and 2 on an RP server that are made but I don't run because I'm busy grinding on Harbinger. Now should we pull up some threads about how PvP servers and RP servers are dead.

 

And I think the anti-twelvers have arguments that LOOK good but don't hold water. Low level flashpoints are dead anyways so 12x isn't going to affect that. Most of the other arguments the anti-12s have are equally spurious. In fact, as far as I know there is only one valid argument against 12xXP and I don't think I've heard anyone say it so far. Someone with 12xXP can quickly level and dominate lower level players - HOWEVER before all you anti-12s say "Yep! You are so right Ellie." answer this question. Is it really any more unfair than someone who started on the server earlier having a high level killing all the noobs?

[JWagner]

I'm for 12x. I probably won't use it, but I am open to them opening it up. At least to class stories, as they did pre-Revan. This way, people can enjoy the class story and level up with it, rather than wory about the planet quests, etc. It should be a cartel unlock or subscriber unlock, and should have the option to turn on and off or be consumed/activated at will.

 

There's no reason to open it up further than class quests though, is there? I mean, that's the main argument, is the repetitive grind of planet quests. This way, you aren't so overleveled you don't even get challenged during the class missions.

[Happy_Puppy]

I think the twelvers have justified it. There are many anecdotes from people that would be willing to be more active with new toons if they did not have to grind. I have 4 toons on a PvP server and 2 on an RP server that are made but I don't run because I'm busy grinding on Harbinger. Now should we pull up some threads about how PvP servers and RP servers are dead.

 

And I think the anti-twelvers have arguments that LOOK good but don't hold water. Low level flashpoints are dead anyways so 12x isn't going to affect that. Most of the other arguments the anti-12s have are equally spurious. In fact, as far as I know there is only one valid argument against 12xXP and I don't think I've heard anyone say it so far. Someone with 12xXP can quickly level and dominate lower level players - HOWEVER before all you anti-12s say "Yep! You are so right Ellie." answer this question. Is it really any more unfair than someone who started on the server earlier having a high level killing all the noobs?

 

Your arguments hold little to no proof. As someone with 14 alts low level flashpoints are not "dead". They just suffer from the same issue as the level 60 flashpoints. If you are DPS you have a long wait time. IF qued as a healer/tank you have short wait times.

 

If you have already played the class quests anyhow to level these "alts" then your reasoning of you just want to see the story is invalid. What you want is a I win button to max level. Rather you ask for that and be honest then make up a bunch of BS about class story and such.

 

MMO's have always been about time investments. Sure there are small events or promotions to speed it up but in general its about time investments. The leveling speed in swtor is already to fast at least for subs. Skipping planets other then class quests is the norm now. If you do all the quests on one planet most of the time you can skip the bulk of the next two planets. That's not adding pvp, flashpoint and xp boosters to the mix.

 

The people saying that it will have a adverse effect on low level planets is correct. Your argument saying low level flashpoints are "dead" would just prove his point more. That more people are needed leveling alts then fewer and makes more of a argument against 12x xp being a permanent thing.

 

If your going to argue for 12xp lets be honest to why you want it.. not some I just want to see class storys. It has nothing to do with that it has to do with endgame and fotm not the story.

[ScarletBlaze]

Since they have already discuss this and respond to it I seriously doubt they will change their mind in less than a week.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php?page=2

[TravelersWay]

"Great idea but not in the queue (yet)."?

 

They did respond with this one in a livestream shortly after the promo ended. Obviously, the community has a hard time understanding it. Of course, the community expects updates on things like this on a daily, if not hourly, basis, and expects a different answer each time.

Edited March 4, 2015 by TravelersWay

[DOHboy]

They did respond with this one in a livestream shortly after the promo ended. Obviously, the community has a hard time understanding it. Of course, the community expects updates on things like this on a daily, if not hourly, basis, and expects a different answer each time.

 

pretty much.

while (!implemented)

If (!responsed){

cout>>: "what is the status and why hasn't this been implemented"; //query for implementation status and response

cin<<NULL //fingers in ears

}

[EllieAnne]

Your arguments hold little to no proof. As someone with 14 alts low level flashpoints are not "dead". They just suffer from the same issue as the level 60 flashpoints. If you are DPS you have a long wait time. IF qued as a healer/tank you have short wait times.

Oh but the anti-12ers that say 12xXP WILL kill off FPs. What is their proof?

If you have already played the class quests anyhow to level these "alts" then your reasoning of you just want to see the story is invalid. What you want is a I win button to max level. Rather you ask for that and be honest then make up a bunch of BS about class story and such.

I'm glad we talked privately about my inner motivations ... Oh wait we didn't so how do you even DARE TO PRESUME my motivation. Oh and an I WIN button? On a PvE server? That makes sense. About as much as "Hey you saw the story once so how different can it be the second time because of course LS Warrior is exactly the same as DS warrior. Oh and in the Agent storyline, there's not a point on a ship where you make a decision that drastically alters the storyline.

 

MMO's have always been about time investments. Sure there are small events or promotions to speed it up but in general its about time investments. The leveling speed in swtor is already to fast at least for subs. Skipping planets other then class quests is the norm now. If you do all the quests on one planet most of the time you can skip the bulk of the next two planets. That's not adding pvp, flashpoint and xp boosters to the mix.

So grinding 8 ACs to level 60 wasn't enough of a time investment? And I love how I have "no proof" and yet your post is full of unprovable statement like how current leveling is "too fast" and how "MMOs have always been about time investments"

 

The people saying that it will have a adverse effect on low level planets is correct.

My response to this statement?

Your arguments hold little to no proof.

 

Your argument saying low level flashpoints are "dead" would just prove his point more. That more people are needed leveling alts then fewer and makes more of a argument against 12x xp being a permanent thing.

And so all of the people saying they would make more alts with 12xXP - you disbelieve them? Or do you think that the status quo will encourage people to make more alts?

 

If your going to argue for 12xp lets be honest to why you want it.. not some I just want to see class storys. It has nothing to do with that it has to do with endgame and fotm not the story.

I'm glad we talked privately about my inner motivations ... Oh wait we didn't so how do you even DARE TO PRESUME my motivation. This is a perfect example of a "Straw Man Fallacy". You see you knows you can't attack my argument about storylines so you change my argument and attack that instead.

 

I guess that means I win. I guess I should press that button now.

[EllieAnne]

They did respond with this one in a livestream shortly after the promo ended. Obviously, the community has a hard time understanding it. Of course, the community expects updates on things like this on a daily, if not hourly, basis, and expects a different answer each time.

 

 

pretty much.

while (!implemented)

If (!responsed){

cout>>: "what is the status and why hasn't this been implemented"; //query for implementation status and response

cin<<NULL //fingers in ears

}

 

A couple things. Eric has said it will not be a legacy perk which opened the door for everyone asking "Will it be a CM item?" I think it's a fair question considering how much BW tries to make off the Cartel Market and that Eric only referred to one way that it could be implemented. Maybe we wouldn't keep questioning it if he made a blanket statement "There is no way we are having 12x in any way shape or form."

 

Secondly, I think that this 12xXP is now a grassroots movement. We have come up with how to implement it in a fair and equitable way. Make it completely optional. Accept the limitation that it is only class missions [a few have asked for everything but most of us 12ers want it limited to class missions only. We have shown that 12xXP will generate more excitement and game-play and incidentally make BW a ton of $$$ from CM sales. We keep making these threads hoping BW will actually read them and listen to (80% of) their fanbase.

 

-Ellie12

[MandFlurry]

I think the twelvers have justified it. There are many anecdotes from people that would be willing to be more active with new toons if they did not have to grind. I have 4 toons on a PvP server and 2 on an RP server that are made but I don't run because I'm busy grinding on Harbinger. Now should we pull up some threads about how PvP servers and RP servers are dead.

 

And I think the anti-twelvers have arguments that LOOK good but don't hold water. Low level flashpoints are dead anyways so 12x isn't going to affect that. Most of the other arguments the anti-12s have are equally spurious. In fact, as far as I know there is only one valid argument against 12xXP and I don't think I've heard anyone say it so far. Someone with 12xXP can quickly level and dominate lower level players - HOWEVER before all you anti-12s say "Yep! You are so right Ellie." answer this question. Is it really any more unfair than someone who started on the server earlier having a high level killing all the noobs?

 

 

Thanx for making this Post, as with my Severe Arthritis, Fibromialgia and CTS along with other things i have, it can sometimes be impossible for me to make a Post, which i know a lot of the Community is happy to hear.

 

Thanx, because i'm thinking in most of the same ways you are. I started playing this game in beta, all games and MMOs before this, i hurt myself a lot from grinding too many characters and Jedi from the Likes of SWG and other games like ESO, etc, etc, etc.

 

Ppl like me Can NOT Grind like we used to because of our physical problems, and having done so many Characters the Old Fashioned way of grinding is totaly out of the question. 12X xp or 2X xp is the only way, but 12X is a Lot better to get the characters done, that I so much want to get done while doing the Storylines. No 1 has the right with exception to the EABioware Reps to tell me how I should lvl, when i've already done so much grinding while taking Painkillers.

 

It's bee really Evident, while a Lot of ppl here on the Forums will lie, even though they know Floods of Old and New people subbed or re-subbed just for 12X. Ppl that are crying about grinding that fast means ppl don't know how to play their Class, and "while some of that is true, a Lot of that is a Lie as well". Most ppl that I was hearing in chat while 12X was going weren't having trouble playing their Classes because the Fact was that they had already grinded a different Tree or AC for those Classes. Ppl will have to know how to play their/there Classes or they won't be able to grind even with 12X. You can't do 12X unless you know how to use ur Classes skills. Only few ppl wouldn't know how to play their Classes.

 

There is already a LOT of people right now that don't know how to play their Classes, and those ppl did all the quests their were and grinded every quest. So 12X wouldn't make much of a difference in knowledge of ppl knowing their Classes. I learned how to play my Other alts with 12X, and so can other ppl to.

 

At least ppl like me should have access to 12X xp, but I think every1 else should to lvl 50 in my opinion.

 

P.S. The Really Bad thing about 12X was only most ppls problems of keeping up Gear wise because of money.

[ScarletBlaze]

Okay I have a question for everyone, especially the ones that want 12xp.

 

How would you handle the gear situation as people will complain they do not have enough credits to upgrade their gear.

 

Before you say they are leveling with the 12 xp and probably won't need it let me refresh your memory. When they had the 12 xp people were on the forums and in general chat complaining they didn't have enough comms/credits to upgrade the gear. So you make this 12 xp how are you going to deal with those people and the gear problem.

 

Before you say craft, some people hate to craft or don't have the credits to upgrade their crafting and don't want to spend credits to purchase the mats (which can get pricey) .

 

 

NOTE: This would not be a problem for me and my boyfriend as I have alts that can make the upgrades.

 

Edit: This is a problem that needs to be figured out and a solution found before they actually can do 12 XP again or we will have the forums/general chat full of people complaining they can't gear their characters. Yes I agree it is something you need to figure out for yourself but we also know there are those that do not figure it out for themselves. I would rather have the solution to this problem before BW even consider 12 XP again.

Edited March 4, 2015 by ScarletBlaze

[Taramayne]

Okay I have a question for everyone, especially the ones that want 12xp.

 

How would you handle the gear situation as people will complain they do not have enough credits to upgrade their gear.

 

Before you say they are leveling with the 12 xp and probably won't need it let me refresh your memory. When they had the 12 xp people were on the forums and in general chat complaining they didn't have enough comms/credits to upgrade the gear. So you make this 12 xp how are you going to deal with those people and the gear problem.

 

Before you say craft, some people hate to craft or don't have the credits to upgrade their crafting and don't want to spend credits to purchase the mats (which can get pricey) .

 

NOTE: This would not be a problem for me and my boyfriend as I have alts that can make the upgrades.

 

Well, in my case I would just use some of the several thousand comms I have between all my alts to gear up the new character with mods.

 

Assuming That 12X is something brand new players are not going to be able to access right away, those that DO use it will likely have alts with comms/cash that can supply their new characters same as before, if needed.

[MandFlurry]

I'd say that would be the ppl that use the 12X xp's problem, as it was mine to. What I did is use my alts that can do Dailies, Fps, and Ops and make money for my alts to help them get the Gear that's needed until they my 12X alts would have at least the minimum Gear to start Dailies, then Flaspoints and Ops for the 12Xers.

 

I sure as hell won't be stupid enough to think that we would get Gear for free, and never have. I believe in doing Dailies, Fps, and Ops to make the Millions of Creds to gear up my 12Xers Just like the way it is now without 12X. You have to do Heroics and other things on ur other alts and Mains to get proper Gear as it also is for any1s Alts.

[CloudCastle]

How would you handle the gear situation as people will complain they do not have enough credits to upgrade their gear.

 

Well, considering that this would be an optional perk, anyone who purchases it would bear the responsibility of working this out. That is also why it would/should be an "advanced" player perk. Long standing players know ways to get their chars geared. If you don't know or don't have the means to do this, then the perk is probably not for you anyway.

[ImmortalLowlife]

Okay I have a question for everyone, especially the ones that want 12xp.

 

How would you handle the gear situation as people will complain they do not have enough credits to upgrade their gear.

 

Before you say they are leveling with the 12 xp and probably won't need it let me refresh your memory. When they had the 12 xp people were on the forums and in general chat complaining they didn't have enough comms/credits to upgrade the gear. So you make this 12 xp how are you going to deal with those people and the gear problem.

 

Before you say craft, some people hate to craft or don't have the credits to upgrade their crafting and don't want to spend credits to purchase the mats (which can get pricey) .

 

 

NOTE: This would not be a problem for me and my boyfriend as I have alts that can make the upgrades.

 

Edit: This is a problem that needs to be figured out and a solution found before they actually can do 12 XP again or we will have the forums/general chat full of people complaining they can't gear their characters. Yes I agree it is something you need to figure out for yourself but we also know there are those that do not figure it out for themselves. I would rather have the solution to this problem before BW even consider 12 XP again.

 

Me.... I've got my lvl 60 main who I hop on to run dailies when I have time. I've got about 8 toons who just finished chapt 3 and are just sitting there. They all have gathering skills, and I sell mats & schematics on the GTN. As far as gear, I've got a LOT of stuff unlocked in collections. I'd use com's to keep my gear straight, and just buy any upgrades I need. And there are a lot of planetary quest and FP's that I really enjoy doing. Get plenty of com's that way.

 

I didn't have ANY of the gearing problems y'all talkin bout. Lol

[EllieAnne]

Okay I have a question for everyone, especially the ones that want 12xp.

 

How would you handle the gear situation as people will complain they do not have enough credits to upgrade their gear.

 

Because the 12xXP was available to any sub. With what we are proposing you either have 3 or 4 alts (one from each mirrored AC) or have reached a high enough legacy level that crafting/buying on GTN should not be a problem.

[EliteSeraph]

I'm sure what I'm about to say has been covered in this thread and others already, however it's not going to hurt anything to reiterate it in my own words.

 

When you consider all the options that are available to create a different gaming experience - Republic vs Imperial, light or dark side, male vs female, two unique styles for each class - the idea of accelerated gameplay in the form of 12 X experience for story missions becomes a lot more reasonable.

 

Even if you boil down multiple playthroughs to once per story, you still end up with EIGHT unique experiences (1 for each class per rep/imp). That creates a tremendous potential for replay, maintaining a sub, or multiple purchases from the Cartel market.

 

As for not putting in the time, or "earning" the levels, is anyone honestly under the impression that leveling content is difficult, or that the speed of reaching level cap has anything to do with skillful play for investment of time at end game where someone might actually be challenged to a point where the word 'earn' might actually apply?

 

Honestly, 12 X experience for class/main story missions is a great opportunity for a win-win situation. EA/Bioware gets an opportunity for more purchases or sub's, and players get more options and quality of life.

 

And all of that is not even taking into consideration the ambient benefits of having the player base more distributed throughout all levels of the game instead of pooling at the level cap.

I

I'm not really seeing a downside.

Edited March 5, 2015 by EliteSeraph

[Arodin]

I agree with previous post. I'm someone who is only posting here because of the free 7 days of subscriber access. I have completed 3 class stories, and I would love to complete the others, but I have no intention of re-subbing under the current rate of XP earning. Even with XP boosts, it's just too grindy, I can't do it. I've tried, but once I get onto those planets where it really slows down, and I'm forced to listen to aliens warbling "woobie rooney rah boop ree roo" I just can't take it and I quit. If I could stick to mostly class story missions, I would probably be subbed for the next couple of years to play all of the class stories I haven't completed + replaying my favorites. Until then, goodbye, I'm out, maybe I'll check back in a few months.

[EllieAnne]

That last post is a good one because I know people who have ground (grinded?) out 3 or 4 classes but want to play all 8 to see the basic story. 12xXP would definitely incentivize them to play more toons.

[OddballEasyEight]

Okay I have a question for everyone, especially the ones that want 12xp.

 

How would you handle the gear situation as people will complain they do not have enough credits to upgrade their gear.

 

Before you say they are leveling with the 12 xp and probably won't need it let me refresh your memory. When they had the 12 xp people were on the forums and in general chat complaining they didn't have enough comms/credits to upgrade the gear. So you make this 12 xp how are you going to deal with those people and the gear problem.

 

Before you say craft, some people hate to craft or don't have the credits to upgrade their crafting and don't want to spend credits to purchase the mats (which can get pricey) .

 

 

NOTE: This would not be a problem for me and my boyfriend as I have alts that can make the upgrades.

 

Edit: This is a problem that needs to be figured out and a solution found before they actually can do 12 XP again or we will have the forums/general chat full of people complaining they can't gear their characters. Yes I agree it is something you need to figure out for yourself but we also know there are those that do not figure it out for themselves. I would rather have the solution to this problem before BW even consider 12 XP again.

 

1: Comms system has been reworked, it's very easy to get enough comms to get good gear now.

2: You can buy green mods cheaply on the GTN as long as the 12xp isn't a limited time thing.

3: There are mods available for credits at vendors in the game, which many seem to have overlooked during the 12xp event.

4: If you don't care about looks, the game will keep you pretty decently geared throughout the story.

5: If you level up your first toon to be a cybertech, you won't have to buy much mods for any of your following toons. (I know you said "don't say crafting" but you can't really just say "that's not allowed!" when it's actually a very valid argument)

6: If you use gathering skills on your leveling toons, you can sell what you gather to buy decent gear without much of a cost.

7: Skills cost has been removed so your characters will be substantially more wealthy in comparison to during the event.

8: Overall, I think it was the general unpreparedness for 12x that caused people to be undergeared. They would just go on a mission devouring rampage and not realize that their gear was 10 levels old when they suddenly started dying all the time.

 

Did that satisfy your question?

 

 

(as for those who won't figure it out anyway, let's just say that there are still people who are lvl 20 on Tatooine asking for help from others because they don't understand why they can't beat the enemies in their class missions. Some people are beyond help.)

Edited March 5, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[Arodin]

That last post is a good one because I know people who have ground (grinded?) out 3 or 4 classes but want to play all 8 to see the basic story. 12xXP would definitely incentivize them to play more toons.

 

I'm sure there are a lot of people like that. It's funny, the big selling point of SWTOR is the story driven experience, yet the story is the most inaccessible element of the game. Endgame is easy -- anyone can get into that. All you need is one max level character, and you're into the endgame. But the story requires leveling multiple characters, repeatedly replaying content, and grinding XP. Accessing story, even for subscribers, has the greatest barrier for entry, and it shouldn't be that way in this game.

[Ratajack]

Thanx for making this Post, as with my Severe Arthritis, Fibromialgia and CTS along with other things i have, it can sometimes be impossible for me to make a Post, which i know a lot of the Community is happy to hear.

 

Thanx, because i'm thinking in most of the same ways you are. I started playing this game in beta, all games and MMOs before this, i hurt myself a lot from grinding too many characters and Jedi from the Likes of SWG and other games like ESO, etc, etc, etc.

 

Ppl like me Can NOT Grind like we used to because of our physical problems, and having done so many Characters the Old Fashioned way of grinding is totaly out of the question. 12X xp or 2X xp is the only way, but 12X is a Lot better to get the characters done, that I so much want to get done while doing the Storylines. No 1 has the right with exception to the EABioware Reps to tell me how I should lvl, when i've already done so much grinding while taking Painkillers.

 

It's bee really Evident, while a Lot of ppl here on the Forums will lie, even though they know Floods of Old and New people subbed or re-subbed just for 12X. Ppl that are crying about grinding that fast means ppl don't know how to play their Class, and "while some of that is true, a Lot of that is a Lie as well". Most ppl that I was hearing in chat while 12X was going weren't having trouble playing their Classes because the Fact was that they had already grinded a different Tree or AC for those Classes. Ppl will have to know how to play their/there Classes or they won't be able to grind even with 12X. You can't do 12X unless you know how to use ur Classes skills. Only few ppl wouldn't know how to play their Classes.

 

There is already a LOT of people right now that don't know how to play their Classes, and those ppl did all the quests their were and grinded every quest. So 12X wouldn't make much of a difference in knowledge of ppl knowing their Classes. I learned how to play my Other alts with 12X, and so can other ppl to.

 

At least ppl like me should have access to 12X xp, but I think every1 else should to lvl 50 in my opinion.

 

P.S. The Really Bad thing about 12X was only most ppls problems of keeping up Gear wise because of money.

 

 

I'm sorry. Did I miss something in the patch notes?

 

Have they changed the game to auto delete any characters that were not max level within 2 calendar days of creation?

 

As far as I know, you can take as long you want/need to level any characters. This allows you and anyone else with physical problems or limited play time to level at a pace that you, or they, can comfortably manage.

[FerkWork]

Since leveling doesn't really teach you how to play well (You can go to 50 without choosing a AC) in difficult situations for end game content combined with KDY academy, the 12xp IMHO really didn't bring down skill level as much as the lack of difficult content in the leveling process does. As a raider and a pugger when I'm bored, having 12XP didn't really make more bad players as those players have been here since the beginning. Whether they make it a thing or not is up to BW and whether it will make them more money or not.

 

TLDR: Baddies gonna bad regardless of 12 XP due to face roll leveling and It will only be implemented if it makes BW more money.

Edited March 5, 2015 by FerkWork

[Raphael_diSanto]

 

Pretty much. Actually, I have to say that leveling during 12XP was interesting, because the fights became more difficult due to being undergeared. Well, more undergeared than normal, haha.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I'm sure there are a lot of people like that. It's funny, the big selling point of SWTOR is the story driven experience, yet the story is the most inaccessible element of the game. Endgame is easy -- anyone can get into that. All you need is one max level character, and you're into the endgame. But the story requires leveling multiple characters, repeatedly replaying content, and grinding XP. Accessing story, even for subscribers, has the greatest barrier for entry, and it shouldn't be that way in this game.

 

Yeah....something tells me you dont actually have any endgame characters...