HM Ravagers & Temple progression thread

[mastirkal]

Again I'd like to bring up the fact that 14 guilds (18 teams) have killed revan so far. Is this not an acceptable number or at least growing to a much more acceptable level? I can't recall who said it, but I remember hearing someone guess less than ten guilds would kill revan in this rendition all the way to nightmare mode. Though there's a chance no one is going to get a kill after the Chandrian and it will stay at 14 guilds, it seems highly unlikely that will be the case.

 

What are other peoples opinion on the state of this tier of content now that it's been shown that maybe revan isn't some impossible wall that only a select few will be able to beat (Not suggesting this is true, but the sentiment I've heard from players who don't have it seems to be as such) and could potentially be boosted to a higher difficulty that would be an acceptable increase from hard to nightmare.

Edited April 5, 2015 by mastirkal

[Aetrus]

Though there's a chance no one is going to get a kill after the Chandrian and it will stay at 14 guilds, it seems highly unlikely that will be the case.

 

What are other peoples opinion on the state of this tier of content now that it's been shown that maybe revan isn't some impossible wall that only a select few will be able to beat (Not suggesting this is true, but the sentiment I've heard from players who don't have it seems to be as such) and could potentially be boosted to a higher difficulty that would be an acceptable increase from hard to nightmare.

Meh, Vicious on Jung Ma has been having attendance issues for the past month or we'd have probably dropped him by now as well. As it is we're getting to the third floor about 80% of the time. Just gotta put in more time.

 

I'd say from HM to NiM definitely remove the rez between floors two and three. With maybe a tighter DPS check on the Machine Core phase.

[TheRealNerevar]

Phantoms (2) Killed Revan

[mastirkal]

Provectus has 15 players with revanchist. I will officially claim Provectus (2) got a kill. Edited April 5, 2015 by mastirkal

[ivansmisic]

Hello everyone

 

 

Mango team from Outbreak guild on the Tomb of Freedon Nadd killed Coratanni today. We're 9/10 now and looking forward to Revan. Here's a kill video:

 

P.S. We have a girl tank, you can't see that often

[MasterKast]

woot woot. go mangos

[JDotter]

So I'm not trying to be a dick or aggressive. What are we considering (2) groups? The reason I have Zorz x3, and Hates You x2 is because I know they have those groups. Are you guys running on alts, alts + mains of other players in guild, etc?

 

I would like to add secondary groups within guilds if it has majority "mains" of different players but don't want to clutter the list with alt kills so to speak.

 

For example

 

We have groups that run on Tuesday/Wednesday/Friday with at most 1-2 players from other groups.

 

 

On topic: updated grats to all on the new kills

Edited April 11, 2015 by JDotter

[mastirkal]

So I'm not trying to be a dick or aggressive. What are we considering (2) groups? The reason I have Zorz x3, and Hates You x2 is because I know they have those groups. Are you guys running on alts, alts + mains of other players in guild, etc?

 

I would like to add secondary groups within guilds if it has majority "mains" of different players but don't want to clutter the list with alt kills so to speak.

 

For example

 

We have groups that run on Tuesday/Wednesday/Friday with at most 1-2 players from other groups.

 

 

On topic: updated grats to all on the new kills

 

It was a joke Milas, Provectus doesn't really function on having an A or B group. We have an A and A1 groups that split our "A" group in half. By that standard each group has 3-4 players that were in the original kill. We're just happy to have our names up there.

Edited April 11, 2015 by mastirkal

[Ruskaeth]

Oh oh, on that note, DiLiH has had two groups at 5/5 RaV and 4/5 ToS for a while. 100% standalone groups. To name the group: Rektrain. Edited April 12, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[M_o_s_e_s]

Exit Area - HM Revan 16-man

 

Pic

http://gyazo.com/56acb90ca50ff4ea2ec8d20d16991090

http://gyazo.com/499271a1c413853036a72c16f095f6eb

 

Video Coming Soon....

 

Not really sure how you wanna count this Milas, since there is no section for 16-man in the thread. Also I think this is 3rd kill of 16-man ? I know Hates You got it on Tuesday, anyone else working on 16-man ? Wondering what everyone's thoughts are behind this tier of 16-man content. I personally found that the biggest enemy was the lag.... More so in this tier then any other seen in this game before.

 

P.S. - We welcomed 6 new Revanchist to the guild with this kill bringing our total to.... 19... or 20.... something like that lol

Edited April 14, 2015 by M_o_s_e_s

[SnickerJew]

Exit Area - HM Revan 16-man

 

Pic -

http://gyazo.com/56acb90ca50ff4ea2ec8d20d16991090

http://gyazo.com/499271a1c413853036a72c16f095f6eb

 

Video Coming Soon....

 

Not really sure how you wanna count this Milas, since there is no section for 16-man in the thread. Also I think this is 3rd kill of 16-man ? I know Hates You got it on Tuesday, anyone else working on 16-man ? Wondering what everyone's thoughts are behind this tier of 16-man content. I personally found that the biggest enemy was the lag.... More so in this tier then any other seen in this game before.

 

First of all, congrats Cho & all of EA!

 

I don't think this thread tracks 16m separately from 8m due to the main fact that 16m is dead. "But Yolo, this is the 3rd guild to kill HM 16m Revan now. Whatever could you mean by the content is dead?" I'm glad you asked random person. The fact that only 8m focused guilds are the only guilds to kill this boss, or any of the final 16m HM bosses for that matter, goes to show you it is content to do for purely achievements only. I'm sure that's the primary reason most people are wanting to even attempt 16m HM at this time. What 16m "Progression Guilds" are left? Considering we haven't seen anything from any of the previous guilds who used to compete I'm sure it' safe to say that 16m "progression" is dead.

 

Side note, the main issue with 16m this tier was, as you said, the lag in these instances. There was a point in time during our Revan pulls where we had everyone reset their PC's due to a memory leak making the heart beat push out/pull in lagging most of our raid.

 

It's a shame 16m has gone by the wayside and maybe more guilds will appear for NiM, other next Ops, but until then lets pay our respects to 16m progression content in SWTOR.

 

R.I.P 16m Progression December 2011 - December 2014

[M_o_s_e_s]

First of all, congrats Cho & all of EA!

 

I don't think this thread tracks 16m separately from 8m due to the main fact that 16m is dead. "But Yolo, this is the 3rd guild to kill HM 16m Revan now. Whatever could you mean by the content is dead?" I'm glad you asked random person. The fact that only 8m focused guilds are the only guilds to kill this boss, or any of the final 16m HM bosses for that matter, goes to show you it is content to do for purely achievements only. I'm sure that's the primary reason most people are wanting to even attempt 16m HM at this time. What 16m "Progression Guilds" are left? Considering we haven't seen anything from any of the previous guilds who used to compete I'm sure it' safe to say that 16m "progression" is dead.

 

Side note, the main issue with 16m this tier was, as you said, the lag in these instances. There was a point in time during our Revan pulls where we had everyone reset their PC's due to a memory leak making the heart beat push out/pull in lagging most of our raid.

 

It's a shame 16m has gone by the wayside and maybe more guilds will appear for NiM, other next Ops, but until then lets pay our respects to 16m progression content in SWTOR.

 

R.I.P 16m Progression December 2011 - December 2014

 

 

 

Thank You & Lmao @random person. I completely agree with you on all points made. It is a shame, but all very true. As for the Revan fight I found the lag at purples was terrible. Not sure we had the memory leak issue but it def was not fun hoping we wouldn't get a spike while looking at circles or something like that. I know for the push/pull a few people were complaining that the timers on star parse were off by a second or so, not sure if that was an issue that came from the memory leak... I wanted to stream but was afraid my Computer would grow legs and make a run for it !

 

And Now.... A moment of silence for what used to be 16-man progression....

Edited April 14, 2015 by M_o_s_e_s

[Sindariel]

First of all, congrats Cho & all of EA!

 

I don't think this thread tracks 16m separately from 8m due to the main fact that 16m is dead. "But Yolo, this is the 3rd guild to kill HM 16m Revan now. Whatever could you mean by the content is dead?" I'm glad you asked random person. The fact that only 8m focused guilds are the only guilds to kill this boss, or any of the final 16m HM bosses for that matter, goes to show you it is content to do for purely achievements only. I'm sure that's the primary reason most people are wanting to even attempt 16m HM at this time. What 16m "Progression Guilds" are left? Considering we haven't seen anything from any of the previous guilds who used to compete I'm sure it' safe to say that 16m "progression" is dead.

 

Side note, the main issue with 16m this tier was, as you said, the lag in these instances. There was a point in time during our Revan pulls where we had everyone reset their PC's due to a memory leak making the heart beat push out/pull in lagging most of our raid.

 

It's a shame 16m has gone by the wayside and maybe more guilds will appear for NiM, other next Ops, but until then lets pay our respects to 16m progression content in SWTOR.

 

R.I.P 16m Progression December 2011 - December 2014

 

Apart from the performance issues, the current tier clearly shows that Bioware no longer cares about proper balancing in 16m.

Mechanics that are survivable/healable in 8m are 1-shot in 16m, tiny rooms with barely enough space to move or spread out, etc. On the other hand, DPS checks are a complete joke in 16m.

[justinplainview]

Apart from the performance issues, the current tier clearly shows that Bioware no longer cares about proper balancing in 16m.

Mechanics that are survivable/healable in 8m are 1-shot in 16m, tiny rooms with barely enough space to move or spread out, etc. On the other hand, DPS checks are a complete joke in 16m.

 

our healers didn't complain about damage being too much to handle, on the contrary, they were let down. Honestly disagree with the idea that damage was this oh-**** situation. If your raiders mess up mechanics, yeah, damage is a thing, but the kind of mechanics you mess up are "not kiting load lifters so they all blow up on you at once", "staying in yellow on Coratanni" "Blowing up your mine with 2 other people on blaster master" "being in a red circle on sword squadron" these are all things that you shouldn't be DOING. It's not like the REQUIRED damage going to the raid was difficult at all.

[FerkWork]

First of all, congrats Cho & all of EA!

 

I don't think this thread tracks 16m separately from 8m due to the main fact that 16m is dead. "But Yolo, this is the 3rd guild to kill HM 16m Revan now. Whatever could you mean by the content is dead?" I'm glad you asked random person. The fact that only 8m focused guilds are the only guilds to kill this boss, or any of the final 16m HM bosses for that matter, goes to show you it is content to do for purely achievements only. I'm sure that's the primary reason most people are wanting to even attempt 16m HM at this time. What 16m "Progression Guilds" are left? Considering we haven't seen anything from any of the previous guilds who used to compete I'm sure it' safe to say that 16m "progression" is dead.

 

Side note, the main issue with 16m this tier was, as you said, the lag in these instances. There was a point in time during our Revan pulls where we had everyone reset their PC's due to a memory leak making the heart beat push out/pull in lagging most of our raid.

 

It's a shame 16m has gone by the wayside and maybe more guilds will appear for NiM, other next Ops, but until then lets pay our respects to 16m progression content in SWTOR.

 

R.I.P 16m Progression December 2011 - December 2014

 

I think it's also due to the simple fact that it is hard to muster 16 people at one time and is harder now as RL gets in the way and possible disinterest? (Shrugs)

[namesaretough]

Grats to Hates You and Exit Area on 16m Revan, and everyone else with new kills.

 

16m progression has been dead since NiM DF. Sad but true. Depending on your definition since long before then, to be honest. Heck, as far back as NiM SV the devs put in a 16m-only boss that only 1-2 guilds even put serious time into trying. It's certainly due to a combination of performance issues, lack of incentive, and poor balancing, but it's just not a format that's had any sort of progression competition since NiM DF, or a reasonable clearance rate since SV. Even as far back as NiM TFB there was a month+ gap between first and second clears.

Edited April 14, 2015 by namesaretough

[SnickerJew]

I think it's also due to the simple fact that it is hard to muster 16 people at one time and is harder now as RL gets in the way and possible disinterest? (Shrugs)

 

If we look at 16m raiding as a timeline you will see the graph steadily decreasing having this tier dead last. Let's go back to last tier, 16m DF/ DP NiM. We had 3-5 guilds (maybe I'm being generous) complete DF NiM under nightmare power and 2 guilds clear DP NiM under NiM power. Kills after that are irrelevant in my mind. Fast forward to this content and 0 "16m Guilds" have full cleared EITHER a or these 2 Operations. Is it people being burnt out? Probably. Is it due to players having RL stuff get in the way? Sure. One thing you guys are all forgetting is that this happens ALL OF THE TIME to 16m or 8m teams. Every single tier these issues come up in groups one way or another, so simply saying someone has school to do and can't raid anymore isn't an excuse for a guild not being able to clear bosses. I do agree it is more challenging to manage twice as many people to raid compared to 8, but remember this (16m) has been around for over 3 years and has been done numerous times before. The only thing that has changed from then to now is mainly the amount of 16m guilds left, which is for all intensive purposes 0 at this point.

[Tirozulu]

Again I'd like to bring up the fact that 14 guilds (18 teams) have killed revan so far. Is this not an acceptable number or at least growing to a much more acceptable level? I can't recall who said it, but I remember hearing someone guess less than ten guilds would kill revan in this rendition all the way to nightmare mode. Though there's a chance no one is going to get a kill after the Chandrian and it will stay at 14 guilds, it seems highly unlikely that will be the case.

 

What are other peoples opinion on the state of this tier of content now that it's been shown that maybe revan isn't some impossible wall that only a select few will be able to beat (Not suggesting this is true, but the sentiment I've heard from players who don't have it seems to be as such) and could potentially be boosted to a higher difficulty that would be an acceptable increase from hard to nightmare.

 

Revan is not impossible, but for normal HM raiding teams it is pretty close. When you put in the normal 5-6 hours a week, which most teams do it becomes a GRIND! Only a couple guilds in the entire game killed Revan very quickly, Most of the guilds that have cleared Revan have put a ton of hours into it. A couple guilds that I know have cleared it put in a huge amount of time (15-25 hours a week for an extend period of weeks), The fight is an obvious NIM fight. I highly doubt there will be a NIM tier so guilds that have cleared it will soon starting losing players as we aren't gonna see any new ops till next year sometime. If we do see a NIM tier its would be truly a waste of resources by bioware as maybe 15-20 guilds would even have any success. I rather see new ops by the end of the summer!! The DF/DP expansion where we had SM and semi-hard HM then a tough NIM tier was a much better model if we only get ops once a year. I guess the nice thing is guilds that haven't cleared HM REVAN will have 6-10 months to clear it!

Edited April 14, 2015 by Tirozulu

[justinplainview]

Revan is not impossible, but for normal HM raiding teams it is pretty close. When you put in the normal 5-6 hours a week, which most teams do it becomes a GRIND! Only a couple guilds in the entire game killed Revan very quickly, Most of the guilds that have cleared Revan have put a ton of hours into it. A couple guilds that I know have cleared it put in a huge amount of time (15-25 hours a week for an extend period of weeks), The fight is an obvious NIM fight. I highly doubt there will be a NIM tier so guilds that have cleared it will soon starting losing players as we aren't gonna see any new ops till next year sometime. If we do see a NIM tier its would be truly a waste of resources by bioware as maybe 15-20 guilds would even have any success. I rather see new ops by the end of the summer!! The DF/DP expansion where we had SM and semi-hard HM then a tough NIM tier was a much better model if we only get ops once a year. I guess the nice thing is guilds that haven't cleared HM REVAN will have 6-10 months to clear it!

 

I'm sick of the hours per week debate. What I'm about to say is not an attack on you, so please take it as just me talking about a subject.

 

This fight has been out since December. It's now middle of April. If this was January and you said "Revan isn't dead yet because we raid 5-6 hours per week (read that as two nights per week)" I would understand. If you said "we lost a few people due to burnout" going INTO this tier, I even understand that. But at this point, we're talking about excuses.

 

The raid group I am currently in raids 3 hours per week. 3 hours per week to go 10/10. At first, we didn't full clear as a raid group. It took a number of weeks to get 9/10 sufficiently on farm. But once that was the case, only one fight mattered. You go 4/5, then you tunnel into Revan. This deep into the content, that's enough time to kill Revan, when you have week after week after week of Revan pulls. Groups that say "if I had more than 2 raid nights a week, Revan would have been dead a month ago" are kidding themselves. Stop using raid nights as a crutch, it just gets old.

 

To the people that go around talking about oh, top progression guilds they raid SO MUCH MORE than we do, that's how they get it done....

 

That happens for a few weeks. Ask the top guilds. Once the content is dead, the only reason we raid more than 5 hours a week is because we're killing all 10 bosses 4-5 times a week. The main raid takes about the amount of time it takes you to go to a movie. After the progression race is done, the amount of time put in? Let's say during release of progression we raided 4 days a week for 4-5 hours per night. We're talking ~20 hours per week, yeah? once it's dead, that raid schedule doesn't exist. So the large raid schedule held for less hours than most people work in a week? And then after that, in 4 weeks of raiding, when you aren't on floor 2 of Revan, you have just eclipsed a progression guild's raid time. Because their progression is done. They're just farming the bosses. And if they keep their raid schedule up, it's just a matter of HOW MANY TIMES they kill the bosses.

 

I don't want to hear the attendance issue crap, I've seen Zorz go through ~6-8 raiders being replaced during this tier, DNT lost 2 tanks during progression (one of them me), 1 tank after, 2-3 DPS, and a Healer. Hates You has lost multiple players also (sorry Bat, I don't have the roster memorized). The progression guilds lose players too. And the roster changes never happen in opportune times. Stop blaming the lack of full clears on things that guilds with full clears have to deal with also.

 

As for your post, I agree that Revan is (for the history of this game) a NiM level fight. I think it's harder than any fight this game has had previously. I agree with you that the number of people that can compete in NiM is about the same size as the number that could compete in HM. This isn't surprising. Now, if NiM actually took a lot of dev resources to make, I would agree and say NEW RAID AT THE END OF SUMMER. But we aren't going to get a new raid at the end of summer, because a new raid is HARDER to make than a NiM mode (which basically is just shifting math figures around, and making a small number of new things in most fights if we go by history of this game), so from a cycle of the game standpoint, I disagree, NiM makes more sense on their end. What's most important is this. One raid per year is unacceptable. NiM can happen AND we SHOULD get a new raid before the year ends.

 

Ziost boss does not count, I REPEAT, ZIOST BOSS DOES NOT COUNT. No raiders counted Toborro as a raid tier, nobody counted Xeno, and nobody counts Eyeless. It's a singular boss. There will be no progression, there will be no new loot tier, there will be no longevity to the content.

[FerkWork]

If we look at 16m raiding as a timeline you will see the graph steadily decreasing having this tier dead last. Let's go back to last tier, 16m DF/ DP NiM. We had 3-5 guilds (maybe I'm being generous) complete DF NiM under nightmare power and 2 guilds clear DP NiM under NiM power. Kills after that are irrelevant in my mind. Fast forward to this content and 0 "16m Guilds" have full cleared EITHER a or these 2 Operations. Is it people being burnt out? Probably. Is it due to players having RL stuff get in the way? Sure. One thing you guys are all forgetting is that this happens ALL OF THE TIME to 16m or 8m teams. Every single tier these issues come up in groups one way or another, so simply saying someone has school to do and can't raid anymore isn't an excuse for a guild not being able to clear bosses. I do agree it is more challenging to manage twice as many people to raid compared to 8, but remember this (16m) has been around for over 3 years and has been done numerous times before. The only thing that has changed from then to now is mainly the amount of 16m guilds left, which is for all intensive purposes 0 at this point.

 

My point about RL was more about the greying of the MMO population but I digress. Lack of incentive to do 16, decrease in the overall amount of Raiders, burnout from content getting stale, finding other games, lag as you pointed out are all contributing to a decline as 16m was probable at best a Niche market.Right now, I'm in probable the only 16m raiding guild on JC.

[Ardarell_Solo]

I'm sick of the hours per week debate. What I'm about to say is not an attack on you, so please take it as just me talking about a subject.

 

This fight has been out since December. It's now middle of April. If this was January and you said "Revan isn't dead yet because we raid 5-6 hours per week (read that as two nights per week)" I would understand. If you said "we lost a few people due to burnout" going INTO this tier, I even understand that. But at this point, we're talking about excuses.

 

The raid group I am currently in raids 3 hours per week. 3 hours per week to go 10/10. At first, we didn't full clear as a raid group. It took a number of weeks to get 9/10 sufficiently on farm. But once that was the case, only one fight mattered. You go 4/5, then you tunnel into Revan. This deep into the content, that's enough time to kill Revan, when you have week after week after week of Revan pulls. Groups that say "if I had more than 2 raid nights a week, Revan would have been dead a month ago" are kidding themselves. Stop using raid nights as a crutch, it just gets old.

 

To the people that go around talking about oh, top progression guilds they raid SO MUCH MORE than we do, that's how they get it done....

 

That happens for a few weeks. Ask the top guilds. Once the content is dead, the only reason we raid more than 5 hours a week is because we're killing all 10 bosses 4-5 times a week. The main raid takes about the amount of time it takes you to go to a movie. After the progression race is done, the amount of time put in? Let's say during release of progression we raided 4 days a week for 4-5 hours per night. We're talking ~20 hours per week, yeah? once it's dead, that raid schedule doesn't exist. So the large raid schedule held for less hours than most people work in a week? And then after that, in 4 weeks of raiding, when you aren't on floor 2 of Revan, you have just eclipsed a progression guild's raid time. Because their progression is done. They're just farming the bosses. And if they keep their raid schedule up, it's just a matter of HOW MANY TIMES they kill the bosses.

 

I don't want to hear the attendance issue crap, I've seen Zorz go through ~6-8 raiders being replaced during this tier, DNT lost 2 tanks during progression (one of them me), 1 tank after, 2-3 DPS, and a Healer. Hates You has lost multiple players also (sorry Bat, I don't have the roster memorized). The progression guilds lose players too. And the roster changes never happen in opportune times. Stop blaming the lack of full clears on things that guilds with full clears have to deal with also.

 

As for your post, I agree that Revan is (for the history of this game) a NiM level fight. I think it's harder than any fight this game has had previously. I agree with you that the number of people that can compete in NiM is about the same size as the number that could compete in HM. This isn't surprising. Now, if NiM actually took a lot of dev resources to make, I would agree and say NEW RAID AT THE END OF SUMMER. But we aren't going to get a new raid at the end of summer, because a new raid is HARDER to make than a NiM mode (which basically is just shifting math figures around, and making a small number of new things in most fights if we go by history of this game), so from a cycle of the game standpoint, I disagree, NiM makes more sense on their end. What's most important is this. One raid per year is unacceptable. NiM can happen AND we SHOULD get a new raid before the year ends.

 

Ziost boss does not count, I REPEAT, ZIOST BOSS DOES NOT COUNT. No raiders counted Toborro as a raid tier, nobody counted Xeno, and nobody counts Eyeless. It's a singular boss. There will be no progression, there will be no new loot tier, there will be no longevity to the content.

 

It might just be a matter of how talented players are - and most outside of Zorz agree that Zorz players are exceptionally (!) talented :-) I admire you guys for that. At the same time I think your assessment of difficulty might differ from averagely talented players, no matter how much effort they take and what they achieve or don't achieve.

 

I tend to agree current HM content is a bit harder than it should be - no matter if we'll see NiM ToS or not.

 

This is just judging from how things were going for progression and semi progression guilds on my server throughout the different tiers of content since launch.

 

And this is pretty much agreed by the majority of German players whose abilities and potential I know well (which is an easy thing to accomplish, given there's only one German server these days so you meet all the people you ever played with there).

Edited April 14, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[justinplainview]

It might just be a matter of how talented players are - and most outside of Zorz agree that Zorz players are exceptionally (!) talented :-) I admire you guys for that. At the same time I think your assessment of difficulty might differ from averagely talented players, no matter how much effort they take and what they achieve or don't achieve.

 

I tend to agree current HM content is a bit harder than it should be - no matter if we'll see NiM ToS or not.

 

This is just judging from how things were going for progression and semi progression guilds on my server throughout the different tiers of content since launch.

 

And this is pretty much agreed by the majority of German players whose abilities and potential I know well (which is an easy thing to accomplish, given there's only one German server these days so you meet all the people you ever played with there).

 

I'm not saying this tier of content isn't hard. This tier of raids? Harder than any other in previous history. I'm not trying to tell people "game is easy, get gud." I'm just saying that the whole "oh we'd be that good if we didn't have work/school/a real life" this is just annoying. I have guildies that are in grad school. I have guildies who are getting married. In my previous NiM guild, we had a healer who traveled EVERY WEEK for work and raided from a hotel, a new father who literally had to quit a raid mid pull because his wife went into labor, another healer who worked full time at McDonalds, the list goes on. Again. The tier is hard. It's much harder than previous tiers of HM content and slightly harder than the last tier of NiM content. But the whole "time" argument as a reason people can say they are just as good but don't get to "no life" it is just dumb. Most of the people I raid with have lives and things to do day-to-day. You either choose to make your life more effecient to give you more time to raid, or you don't. That's it.

 

PS it was always fun to see your guild progress in previous tiers, IIRC I saw your guild's strat powerpoint thingy for Council and I would LOVE to see what you guys put together for Revan.

[M_o_s_e_s]

16-man Revan Kill Video

 

 

As for this content, to be honest on 16-man none of the fights are any harder then 8-man. It was a joke to heal and DPS, like mentioned before the only real problem is the amount of lag (which was higher then ever seen in this game) and if mechanics weren't executed properly the healers might have to put down there soft drinks and actually heal. The only thing that I really saw that was any different within both Ops was 1st floor of Revan took some coordination for healers to cleanse properly & 3 mouse droids on Coratanni instead of 2. Other then that Revan & Cora are the same fight. They bumped the health pools up a bit and and barely increased the DMG output.... All in all it was less then satisfying...

[Kryand]

This fight has been out since December. It's now middle of April. If this was January and you said "Revan isn't dead yet because we raid 5-6 hours per week (read that as two nights per week)" I would understand. If you said "we lost a few people due to burnout" going INTO this tier, I even understand that. But at this point, we're talking about excuses.

I don't entirely disagree with your post, but there are a couple counterpoints to it.

 

The dates don't really mean anything. This tier was gated behind a level cap increase. Some teams didn't even start HM progression until February, and then had a 5-6 hours/week schedule. I can tell you at least one raid team still hasn't spent even half the time on Revan as they did before killing NiM Brontes pre-nerf, despite that Revan has been out longer than that fight was around.

 

I don't want to hear the attendance issue crap, I've seen Zorz go through ~6-8 raiders being replaced during this tier, DNT lost 2 tanks during progression (one of them me), 1 tank after, 2-3 DPS, and a Healer. Hates You has lost multiple players also (sorry Bat, I don't have the roster memorized). The progression guilds lose players too. And the roster changes never happen in opportune times. Stop blaming the lack of full clears on things that guilds with full clears have to deal with also.

This is server-dependent. On Harbinger, where basically everyone transfers when they are looking for a raid team, I'm sure you could go through 6-8 people of equal skill and not bat an eye. Especially when you're Zorz, where if you announce a roster opening, you have who knows how many of the best players lined up to try to fill it. On a server like JC, where the number of players who could kill the pre-nerf NiMs probably wouldn't even fill two raid teams, good players are either already on a team or transfer to Harbinger. If you lose even 2 good people, you're pretty much screwed if you want to clear progression content.

[justinplainview]

I don't entirely disagree with your post, but there are a couple counterpoints to it.

 

The dates don't really mean anything. This tier was gated behind a level cap increase. Some teams didn't even start HM progression until February, and then had a 5-6 hours/week schedule. I can tell you at least one raid team still hasn't spent even half the time on Revan as they did before killing NiM Brontes pre-nerf, despite that Revan has been out longer than that fight was around.

 

 

This is server-dependent. On Harbinger, where basically everyone transfers when they are looking for a raid team, I'm sure you could go through 6-8 people of equal skill and not bat an eye. Especially when you're Zorz, where if you announce a roster opening, you have who knows how many of the best players lined up to try to fill it. On a server like JC, where the number of players who could kill the pre-nerf NiMs probably wouldn't even fill two raid teams, good players are either already on a team or transfer to Harbinger. If you lose even 2 good people, you're pretty much screwed if you want to clear progression content.

 

Hi, I named more than Harbinger guilds that replenished their raids with talent. I named 2 guilds on POT5, a dead server, that compete for talent, being able to replenish their raid pool. Also, there is a 3rd guild on that server that recruited MANY people and recently got their revan kill. I don't see what's server dependent or even Zorz reliant about it. Many players server transfer for progression, and if a raid guild has an atmosphere, or at least a certain pedigree, all they have to do is their job as officers to recruit. Another non Harb example is Exit Area that has worked their butts off to recruit talent and have been rewarded with Revan kills in 8 and 16. As for the gated content, the first time I went 4/5 in the first week of content, I had level 55 gear, and the first revan kill was almost entirely in level 55 save for some SM pieces. I wouldn't call it that gear gated. Not nearly as much as WoW where there are literal gates of ilevels, dungeon progression before raid progression....As for groups that haven't started raiding until February, I see that too, usually the remains of a previous guild with bad leadership (not firing shots at groups, I'm actually very glad to see the number of raiders that make their own raid guilds when leadership is holding the groups back).

Edited April 15, 2015 by justinplainview