UI killing FPS: This should be priority #1 to fix

[Ghisallo]

As the community found in my original thread years back, renaming this file does give a performance increase at the cost of many things breaking. It's still true today. However you are unable to see lightsaber blades, most spell effects, AoE indicators, most in-game SFX (the entry barrier in WZ, mount exhaust, elevator buttons, pieces of holoterminals in some cases), the galaxy map becomes completely unusable, possibly more that I don't know about yet.

 

This does provide some interesting comparison data on my system.

 

Default game (UI + FX file intact) average WZ FPS: 20-25

UI enabled, FX file renamed: 55-60 FPS

UI off (ctrl-U), FX file renamed: 119 FPS

UI off (ctrl-U), FX file intact: 105 FPS

 

It's been known for a long time that the main_art_fx file is s***** and has a huge effect on FPS. What's more interesting is that I can maintain over 100 FPS in an 8v8 warzone by hitting ctrl-U to disable the UI. The fact that my FPS counter goes from red to green while doing this says that the UI is even more of a performance killer than the FX file.

 

Extremely shoddy coding. I would be embarrassed to the point of hiding if my game was unplayable because of a f****** UI. What an utter joke.

 

A huge part of this is not so much shoddy coding as 10 year old coding. Check your CPU against others on a SINGLE THREADED benchmark. I'll bet a lot of people will say "***!!!!" Even if the are running an i7 of some sort. You have all the UI stuff...plus all the MMO stuff (chat, combatlog etc) plus even graphics rendering going on a single thread... Yes this game is NOT mutlicore and does not do all rendering on the GPU. So it would make sense when you drop a CPU hog that Balance will swap from the CPU.

 

Add onto that at 100fps all you have is head room...unless of course you have a Monitor with a refresh rate higher than 60Hz since all a 69 Hertz monitor can do is see 60 fps max.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Hungarycell]

Yes this game is NOT mutlicore

 

Of couse.

That is why when i set it to only use 1 core uses X % of CPU then when i let it use 2 cores it will split the usage in half onto both cores.

 

Thats how not multicore this game is.

 

Singlethreaded benchmark means nothing because there are people with CPUs that has worse results there than mine running it better.

[emeraldon]

Fivechar Edited March 24, 2015 by emeraldon

[Hockaday]

IRabble Rabble Rabble.

 

Your cpu benched more than mine stock, mine stock runs the game far better than yours. It's on your end. O.C. or something if you want. Maybe that will help, I've been O.C.'d since a bit before 3.0 so maybe something changed, I dunno.

 

Back to thread. Why do we think that the swtor main art file is bad? Because what I've read...that's quite...stupid. Not saying it might not be...but you guys are basically saying "once I turn all the FX off my fps is high! RABBLE RABBLE SWTOR IS BAD!" I'm sure I'm missing something...but really?

 

Now the UI Issue...that's something else. I suppose there is no way to work around that ourselves, is there?

[Hungarycell]

Your cpu benched more than mine stock, mine stock runs the game far better than yours. It's on your end. O.C. or something if you want. Maybe that will help, I've been O.C.'d since a bit before 3.0 so maybe something changed, I dunno.

 

All of these are having the same problem i do:

 

Core I7 2600k @ 4 GHz

670 OC GTX @ 680

8 GB RAM

WIN 7 64 BIT

 

AMD Radeon HD 7950

AMD FX 8350

16 GB Ram

 

 

i7 3770 ..770gtx..16gb ram...one ssd...on maximus extreme V

 

amd 8370..2 x r9280x..16gb ram..2ssd`s in raid...on crosshair formula Z...

 

Core i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz

Geforce GTX 970

16 Gigs RAM

 

 

GeForce GTX 750 Ti

Intel® core i5-2500k CPU @3.30GHz

8.00 GB Ram (7.98 GB useable)

64-bit Operating System

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium

 

You can find more: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=782579

 

 

But sure man the problem is on:

-My desktop PC.

-My laptop

-My friend's PC

-My dormmate's PC

-And the few hundred user's PC from thread i mentioned

 

Despite we run everything else fine.

[dbears]

WTS Czerka Crate-O-Matic, Wings of the Architect run, first TWO children, a puppy, like 6 cobs of corn, a salt shaker about 1/3 full and several high fives for just confirmation they're looking at this..

[Cupelixx]

Back to thread. Why do we think that the swtor main art file is bad? Because what I've read...that's quite...stupid. Not saying it might not be...but you guys are basically saying "once I turn all the FX off my fps is high! RABBLE RABBLE SWTOR IS BAD!" I'm sure I'm missing something...but really?

 

Yes really, and it's not stupid to point it out. That file has a massive impact on performance in general, especially in PvP. Try it yourself if you don't believe it.

[Kyuuu]

All of these are having the same problem i do:

 

Core I7 2600k @ 4 GHz

670 OC GTX @ 680

8 GB RAM

WIN 7 64 BIT

 

AMD Radeon HD 7950

AMD FX 8350

16 GB Ram

 

 

i7 3770 ..770gtx..16gb ram...one ssd...on maximus extreme V

 

amd 8370..2 x r9280x..16gb ram..2ssd`s in raid...on crosshair formula Z...

 

Core i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz

Geforce GTX 970

16 Gigs RAM

 

 

GeForce GTX 750 Ti

Intel® core i5-2500k CPU @3.30GHz

8.00 GB Ram (7.98 GB useable)

64-bit Operating System

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium

 

You can find more: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=782579

 

 

But sure man the problem is on:

-My desktop PC.

-My laptop

-My friend's PC

-My dormmate's PC

-And the few hundred user's PC from thread i mentioned

 

Despite we run everything else fine.

 

You can add my i7 920 6gb ram 660gtx to that, sure my pc is far less powerfull then those you listed but also has same horrid bad framerates in warzone.

 

Yet like post earlier this same pc is cappable of handly 60vs60 Server vs Server PVP in Requiem and keeps 30fps and that game engine (gamebryo) is just as old if not more so then this engine and that is with that game on highest detail and 8x AA if i tried that with swtor i would have 5 fps ultra settings 8x AA or worse and swtors lowest setting gains me no tangable diffrence in fps. yet if i questing or doing FP i getting that 60fps. this game has horrid i/o bottlenecks, current ui issue arnt helping, then there is whole issue of swtor stops rendering when ever pools data to load.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Kyuuu

[Hockaday]

Yes really, and it's not stupid to point it out. That file has a massive impact on performance in general, especially in PvP. Try it yourself if you don't believe it.

 

You're missing the point. If you turn off anything that uses hardware, of course your performance will increase. So...yes, as it would turn out, having visual fx impacts performance.

 

Eitherway, you can't do what is described anymore. All it does is make your patcher repatch 9% of the game.

 

As for the hardware issue above...maybe everyone should build their rigs as hackintoshes? Macs run windows better than Windows PC usually...and that's how I built mine...and I don't have these issues o.O

Edited March 24, 2015 by Hockaday

[Cupelixx]

You're missing the point. If you turn off anything that uses hardware, of course your performance will increase. So...yes, as it would turn out, having visual fx impacts performance.

 

If you have a point to make, it has escaped me. The point of myself and others is that the game's FX have a massive performance hit that don't equate to the quality of visuals that are being put out. We have no controls over any of the FX in game. This is poor optimization.

 

Eitherway, you can't do what is described anymore. All it does is make your patcher repatch 9% of the game.

 

That is incorrect. I did exactly this just yesterday and I was able to log in without the game trying to patch itself.

 

As for the hardware issue above...maybe everyone should build their rigs as hackintoshes? Macs run windows better than Windows PC usually...and that's how I built mine...and I don't have these issues o.O

 

That doesn't make any sense. MacOS and Windows both run on Intel hardware. A 'Hackintosh' is just a set of hardware that's compatible with MacOS (and generally by extension, Windows since the hardware is basically the same) except you don't buy it from Apple. I'm not following your logic here.

 

You have no issues with FPS drops especially in PvP? You maintain 50+ FPS while in the thick of things in a warzone?

[Hockaday]

Well, try it again. I just tried it, SW:TOR repatches itself. All this does is waste bandwidth and time. My point, though, is that you're saying when you disable a large majority of visual fx, your performance goes up. To me, and most people, that'd be obvious. Not only that, but doing this (if it worked) would render the game (couldn't resist the pun) unplayable, as all your reticles would be gone; as stated previously.

 

I'm not arguing that there aren't optimizations to be made probably...maybe...I don't know if there can be. I just fail to see how disabling all the visuals in the game proves your point that there are optimizations to be made. I think the more interesting bit is the UI elements.

 

As for Mac's running Windows better, this has been an interesting thing observed for some time. But to your question about my fps drops etc, no, I don't normally experience large drops. I have and do PvP with my settings on high / ultra. Though, what I do experience is the game running at 60-90 fps but it will feel like 10 fps. I believe they commented on this and it was a server issue. It never ceases to amaze me how other MMOs like Wildstar or Skyforge, run at 24-30 fps, but feel buttery smooth...this runs 40-90 fps and feels single digit at times.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Hockaday

[Ghisallo]

You can add my i7 920 6gb ram 660gtx to that, sure my pc is far less powerfull then those you listed but also has same horrid bad framerates in warzone.

 

Yet like post earlier this same pc is cappable of handly 60vs60 Server vs Server PVP in Requiem and keeps 30fps and that game engine (gamebryo) is just as old if not more so then this engine and that is with that game on highest detail and 8x AA if i tried that with swtor i would have 5 fps ultra settings 8x AA or worse and swtors lowest setting gains me no tangable diffrence in fps. yet if i questing or doing FP i getting that 60fps. this game has horrid i/o bottlenecks, current ui issue arnt helping, then there is whole issue of swtor stops rendering when ever pools data to load.

 

First requiem uses the Havok engine AFIK not Gamebryo...

 

Next

 

PLEASE stop listening to the kid who doesn't know what he is talking about technically.

 

This game is NOT multicore compatible... it is, for the most part a single threaded system that ALSO needs to send many graphics issues through the CPU to be rendered before the GPU.

 

In terms of single threaded performance where does you CPU rate...

 

NO BS... 600 in a list of "number 1 thru XXXXX"

 

the 2600 you were responding too # 114.

 

I used an i5 that was cheaper than many because I KNEW it would play this game better because it ranks # 12 on dealing with single threaded processes because all I play are MMOs based on that paradigm.

 

As such I get a minimum of 40 FPS in a wf or 16 man OPs AND I have a cheapo 99 buck video card. This is how much crap they feed into the CPU, that a crap entry level video card can make this game work better because I thought CPU first.

 

Usually I average in the 50s and even the 60's in Flash points btw.

 

Here is the link for single threaded benchmarks

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

 

I have NO argument against "Bioware never should have used this kind of engine" . The UI only contributes to this problem.

 

However I knew they did it this way, I know how to pick components on a budget, and since this is the only type of game I play I could easily afford to build my current system around it.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Hungarycell]

First requiem uses the Havok engine AFIK not Gamebryo...

 

Next

 

PLEASE stop listening to the kid who doesn't know what he is talking about technically.

 

This game is NOT multicore compatible... it is, for the most part a single threaded system that ALSO needs to send many graphics issues through the CPU to be rendered before the GPU.

 

In terms of single threaded performance where does you CPU rate...

 

NO BS... 600 in a list of "number 1 thru XXXXX"

 

the 2600 you were responding too # 114.

 

I used an i5 that was cheaper than many because I KNEW it would play this game better because it ranks # 12 on dealing with single threaded processes because all I play are MMOs based on that paradigm.

 

As such I get a minimum of 40 FPS in a wf or 16 man OPs AND I have a cheapo 99 buck video card. This is how much crap they feed into the CPU, that a crap entry level video card can make this game work better because I thought CPU first.

 

Usually I average in the 50s and even the 60's in Flash points btw.

 

Here is the link for single threaded benchmarks

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

 

I have NO argument against "Bioware never should have used this kind of engine" . The UI only contributes to this problem.

 

However I knew they did it this way, I know how to pick components on a budget, and since this is the only type of game I play I could easily afford to build my current system around it.

 

Yes, sure.

 

Its not a multicore game.

That is why its uses more than 1 core. lol

Keep talking BS.

 

Also your singlethreaded benchmark wont help anyone again, because

#1 the game does use more than 1 core

#2 Hockaday showed that im with a better CPU in singlethread also running it worse than his weaker CPU

 

 

Let alone you should also send an email i think to the 95% of the players who have the average 15-20FPS in warzones and tell them that they must have a problem with their PC.

 

You must have missed all the threads about Warzone FPS problems throughout the years.

 

But of course, you cant be wrong Mr Computer expert. lol

Because you must be one, i mean not knowing that Havok is physics engine only, unlike Gamebryo which is actual game engine, means you sure have tons of reliable knowledge.

 

 

Still laughing at the "not multicore game".

 

 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Hungarycell

[Cupelixx]

Guys...I know everyone is tired and fed up with things to the point you want to jump on everyone's s***. But that's not going to get us anywhere. It's not going to fix the problem. If you're just going to post things to antagonize people, please don't do it here. I would like them to take this thread seriously and answer it. You can have at each other after that happens

[Liquor]

did you guys install the old DX9 files?

directx_Jun2010_redist

dxwebsetup

 

 

??

 

I have an old AMD FX-60 with 4 gigs ram (DDR2) and an old PNY GeForce 9800GTX+

40 FPS on W7 Ult 64Bit 1080p 59Hz lowest settings - just for fun and show off how a 2005 rig with a 2009 GPU performs when running SWTOR and Crysis

 

my 2 ITX Rigs Asus Impact VI i7 4770K 16GB Ram (2400) and GTX760DCUII/GTX780tiSC on SSDs run at 110 FPS @ 1440p 110Hz W7 Ult 64Bit max settings - F'n monsters for SWTOR

 

new to me eBayed laptop Lenovo y510p i7 4700MQ 16GB Ram (1600) with dual Nvidia GT755m in SLI on SSD for W10 I get 60-70 FPS and dips to 36 FPS when loading graphics in new areas (damn you 128 Bus) and the W8.1 on the HDD gets about the same but loads slower.1080p @ 60Hz max settings - a great travel gaming rig.

 

swtor runs better when you have the old DX9 files installed. yes I do see the frame rate increase with the UI off. but when its on, it is not killing these rigs. when a 2005 rig performs better than an i7 equipted with a 970/980 GTX, I have to call BS. sorry, something is up with your system. PSU, heat, config, drivers is screwing with your SWTOR experience.

 

I tweaked my OS to perform better, turn some things off and even removed some functions not needed for gaming. a quick search for windows 7/8/8.1/10 optimizations/tweaks will reveal them. simple registry edits and uninstallations. just remember to backup before performing any of those tasks. W10 is performing great on the laptop. with the Mods I did to the laptop to improve cooling, I dropped nearly 20C on my temps and don't come close to throttling the GPUs on high settings. I have a lot of room for OC once I perform the BIOS unlock and install the larger fans.

 

could swtor be better optimized? yes, but what game can you not say that about? before blaming BW and the engine, look at your own system first, what drivers are you running, what parts are installed, is your PSU up to the task of supplying enough power, are there any conflicts, why does his machine run better than mine? look at the config first.

 

do you need shadows on? why have AA on when it will kill your graphics performance, turn it off. turn off vsync, clean out the inside of your PC, dust bunnies are a computer's worst nightmare. when was the last time you did a fresh install of your OS? anti-virus running? anti-spam running? adware running? are you infected? why have those running in the background when gaming? turn those off.

 

theres a lot you, the end user, can do to improve PC gaming performance. take a little time and you can thank me later when youre ina WZ or Ops crushing your enemies with smooth gameplay

[Hupp]

do you need shadows on? why have AA on when it will kill your graphics performance, turn it off. turn off vsync, clean out the inside of your PC, dust bunnies are a computer's worst nightmare. when was the last time you did a fresh install of your OS? anti-virus running? anti-spam running? adware running? are you infected? why have those running in the background when gaming? turn those off.

You don't get it. You should not have to turn these features off on a game 3 years old when you have a top of the line system. Just because you can get the game to run at 100fps at potato quality doesn't mean you should.

 

my watercooled i5-2500k@ 4.2ghz w/16gb ram, dual ssd (1 for os, 1 for swtor), 850w ps, sli 980gtx. I can be anywhere from 7.5fps to 120. Thats too large of a swing. This was coming off a clean 8.1 install.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Hupp

[Cupelixx]

did you guys install the old DX9 files?

directx_Jun2010_redist

dxwebsetup

 

 

??

 

I have an old AMD FX-60 with 4 gigs ram (DDR2) and an old PNY GeForce 9800GTX+

40 FPS on W7 Ult 64Bit 1080p 59Hz lowest settings - just for fun and show off how a 2005 rig with a 2009 GPU performs when running SWTOR and Crysis

 

my 2 ITX Rigs Asus Impact VI i7 4770K 16GB Ram (2400) and GTX760DCUII/GTX780tiSC on SSDs run at 110 FPS @ 1440p 110Hz W7 Ult 64Bit max settings - F'n monsters for SWTOR

 

new to me eBayed laptop Lenovo y510p i7 4700MQ 16GB Ram (1600) with dual Nvidia GT755m in SLI on SSD for W10 I get 60-70 FPS and dips to 36 FPS when loading graphics in new areas (damn you 128 Bus) and the W8.1 on the HDD gets about the same but loads slower.1080p @ 60Hz max settings - a great travel gaming rig.

 

swtor runs better when you have the old DX9 files installed. yes I do see the frame rate increase with the UI off. but when its on, it is not killing these rigs. when a 2005 rig performs better than an i7 equipted with a 970/980 GTX, I have to call BS. sorry, something is up with your system. PSU, heat, config, drivers is screwing with your SWTOR experience.

 

I tweaked my OS to perform better, turn some things off and even removed some functions not needed for gaming. a quick search for windows 7/8/8.1/10 optimizations/tweaks will reveal them. simple registry edits and uninstallations. just remember to backup before performing any of those tasks. W10 is performing great on the laptop. with the Mods I did to the laptop to improve cooling, I dropped nearly 20C on my temps and don't come close to throttling the GPUs on high settings. I have a lot of room for OC once I perform the BIOS unlock and install the larger fans.

 

could swtor be better optimized? yes, but what game can you not say that about? before blaming BW and the engine, look at your own system first, what drivers are you running, what parts are installed, is your PSU up to the task of supplying enough power, are there any conflicts, why does his machine run better than mine? look at the config first.

 

do you need shadows on? why have AA on when it will kill your graphics performance, turn it off. turn off vsync, clean out the inside of your PC, dust bunnies are a computer's worst nightmare. when was the last time you did a fresh install of your OS? anti-virus running? anti-spam running? adware running? are you infected? why have those running in the background when gaming? turn those off.

 

theres a lot you, the end user, can do to improve PC gaming performance. take a little time and you can thank me later when youre ina WZ or Ops crushing your enemies with smooth gameplay

 

Do me a favor and don't insult everyone's intelligence. I know how to build and maintain computers for crying out loud. It's what I do for a living and I do it at the enterprise scale. The magical 'DX9 fix' is suspect, at best. Adware/spyware? Please. Clean install? Only if the OS becomes completely unusable. Like I said, I maintain my system and it runs lean. It tears through anything I've thrown at it except this game.

 

When I can run any other game I play at the highest quality settings at well over 60 FPS and this game completely chokes...guess what. It's not my computer. Battlefield doesn't have this problem with a 64v64 match. WoW doesn't have this problem. ESO doesn't have this problem. The simplest explanation tends to be the right one. So what's more likely? A certified expert who can run any other game (including MMOs) on their system at high quality and high FPS is at fault for SWTOR running poorly at the lowest settings? Or that the game itself is at fault?

[Kyuuu]

Some people dont get how bad the compression is issued in this either, which why there is i/o bottleneck that not even running the game in ram stops dont stop the stutter when the game pull data, and when this game pulls data from said files it stop rendering which is a whole other issue.

 

Never mind the fact the people with pc's 3x more power then other people have exact same issue. it totally the end users systems fault and not the engine

 

ESO look far better then this and run better in pvp so does FF14

 

And if gambryo engine which just as old as this engine if not older can do 60vs60 server vs server battles and keep 30 fps on high with 8x AA/AF and STILL look and runn better then swtor engine on LOW with just 8vs8 some thing is horrible wrong with the engine, yes it probably next best idea to compare MMO but compare the performance of mmo engine vs other in same pvp situation with drastically different result on same pc tells you had bad one engine is

Edited March 25, 2015 by Kyuuu

[Kyuuu]

First requiem uses the Havok engine AFIK not Gamebryo...

 

 

Try again

Havok is it Physics engine

Gamebryo- game engine

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requiem:_Memento_Mori

Edited March 25, 2015 by Kyuuu

[Hungarycell]

Do me a favor and don't insult everyone's intelligence. I know how to build and maintain computers for crying out loud. It's what I do for a living and I do it at the enterprise scale. The magical 'DX9 fix' is suspect, at best. Adware/spyware? Please. Clean install? Only if the OS becomes completely unusable. Like I said, I maintain my system and it runs lean. It tears through anything I've thrown at it except this game.

 

You will be told that your PC has a problem.

Just like i have been.

 

Dont even try it.

They dont understand the "everything runs good except SWTOR".

Because obviously, if everything runs good except SWTOR, your pc has a problem and you must be dumb.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Hungarycell

[Liquor]

Builds super-rig, cant play SWTOR

[Kyuuu]

You will be told that your PC has a problem.

Just like i have been.

 

Dont even try it.

They dont understand the "everything runs good except SWTOR".

Because obviously, if everything runs good except SWTOR, your pc has a problem and you must be dumb.

 

I think your idiot or just trolling at this point or both cause that make no sense.

 

If everything runs fine but 1 game. Chances are its not the PC and its that game. only in the your mind is of "special" kind does that mean its the pc,

 

Walk away from the computer people before you look any stupider

[Hungarycell]

I think your idiot or just trolling at this point or both cause that make no sense.

 

If everything runs fine but 1 game. Chances are its not the PC and its that game. only in the your mind is of "special" kind does that mean its the pc,

 

Walk away from the computer people before you look any stupider

 

Look at the answers here and other threads.

Especially Ghisallo who thinks he is very smart like to say that its our PC that has a problem.

Actually Customer Support gives the same answer.

Hundreds of players reporting FPS issues should pretty much explain well that it is SWTOR related problem and not our PCs.

 

There is a reason why 95% of the players have 15-20FPS in Warzones and OPS.

 

 

With this mindset games would never get a patch, bugfix, anything because 5% of the player never experienced bugs, glitches, performance issues, memory leak or anything.

Who cares about the other 95%?

 

 

@Liquor

 

twilek slave race shouldnt be allowed to post

 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Hungarycell

[Liquor]

...

 

@Liquor

 

twilek slave race shouldnt be allowed to post

 

+1 to you sir

 

[Zoom_VI]

Dont even try it.

They dont understand the "everything runs good except SWTOR".

Because obviously, if everything runs good except SWTOR, your pc has a problem and you must be dumb.

 

If it was purely because of SWTOR then every single person in the entire game would have these issues, except the fact is the majority of the people playing SWTOR don't have frame rate issues. Typically this means that the issue is being caused by how the affected user's rig interacts with the SWTOR process. Or in short it's a mixed problem.