UI killing FPS: This should be priority #1 to fix

[putinof]

Keep it up. They can't ignore it forever.

 

Nor can i. Im unsubbing, without intention of looking back. Simply cba to pay a penny for a faulty product.

 

U are sliding a downhill BW. Good luck with your incompetence.

[saffaa]

Today I entered Alderaan for the first time, and after visiting my Jedi knight trainer I found my FPS drop to 17 while I was still inside the building. As soon as I walked outside, where I had more to render as well as many more NPC's on-screen, my FPS increased to the 70's. Like you, I also average 90+ FPS. This game is weird.

 

My computer specs are similar to yours, OP:

 

3570K @ 4.5GHz

GTX 770 2GB

8GB RAM

Win7 64

[Cupelixx]

Today I entered Alderaan for the first time, and after visiting my Jedi knight trainer I found my FPS drop to 17 while I was still inside the building. As soon as I walked outside, where I had more to render as well as many more NPC's on-screen, my FPS increased to the 70's. Like you, I also average 90+ FPS. This game is weird.

 

My computer specs are similar to yours, OP:

 

3570K @ 4.5GHz

GTX 770 2GB

8GB RAM

Win7 64

 

It is weird, and full of bugs. There have been areas on planets (mostly the new ones) since 3.0 where there is nothing around and yet my FPS will drop down into the 40s until I move away. I'd even be prepared to live with the bugs and graphical glitches if I could just have a smooth framerate while doing PvP.

[MandFlurry]

Nor can i. Im unsubbing, without intention of looking back. Simply cba to pay a penny for a faulty product.

 

U are sliding a downhill BW. Good luck with your incompetence.

 

This is a Big problem as a lot of ppl I know of were supposed to un-subb because of the 3.0 junk. They love the game but can't play it, so why pay for something you can't play. I've been too sick to know how many ppl in my Guild might have left though.

[DurdensWrath]

I've noticed things like this too even before 3.0. And I can live with the interface being slow in general for things that don't involve combat/PvP. But for FPS in combat to drop more than 50% because of a basic UI is ridiculous.

 

All this could easily be fixed if Bioware allowed modding. Or even were allowed to approve mods. Because lets face it, the people in the modding community seem a lot more competent than the devs we have now. Judging by the quality and depth of some of the mods I enjoyed on WoW.

[Zoom_VI]

All this could easily be fixed if Bioware allowed modding. Or even were allowed to approve mods. Because lets face it, the people in the modding community seem a lot more competent than the devs we have now. Judging by the quality and depth of some of the mods I enjoyed on WoW.

 

I think you mean addons not modding. Trust me you don't want modding to work in a MMO.

[Cupelixx]

All this could easily be fixed if Bioware allowed modding. Or even were allowed to approve mods. Because lets face it, the people in the modding community seem a lot more competent than the devs we have now. Judging by the quality and depth of some of the mods I enjoyed on WoW.

 

This is probably true. If we had control of the UI we could probably find the part that pulls FPS down so much and replace or disable it. Not having addon support and full UI management in the game by now is an archaic model and needs to change.

[DurdensWrath]

I think you mean addons not modding. Trust me you don't want modding to work in a MMO.

 

Whatever they call it, it's like what is done in WoW.

 

This is probably true. If we had control of the UI we could probably find the part that pulls FPS down so much and replace or disable it. Not having addon support and full UI management in the game by now is an archaic model and needs to change.

 

It's a terrible model. You figure after all the success WoW had, and so much is copied from that game, Bioware would have done the smart thing.

Edited March 4, 2015 by DurdensWrath

[Zoom_VI]

Whatever they call it, it's like what is done in WoW.

 

 

 

It's a terrible model. You figure after all the success WoW had, and so much is copied from that game, Bioware would have done the smart thing.

 

This is bad reasoning. First of all WoW is not dominating the market because it's a better game. Wow dominated the market because of when it was launched. Blizzard figured out how to do a mass appeal MMORPG before anyone else and launched said MMORPG when the market was ripe for it. WoW took over the mass-appeal MMORPG market before anyone else had thought to even try to compete for that market.

 

If I were to point to one reason why SWTOR has struggled I would point straight to the fact that SWTOR made the mistake of trying to beat WoW at being WoW. Seriously vanilla TOR was literally WoW with star wars skin. the thing is though, WoW already took over the market.

 

If TOR wants to succeed then Bioware needs to try to stop being WoW and try to do something innovative.

 

Besides addons bring a crap ton of problems, for starters it brings in a ton of issues with raiding since you have all the "you can't raid with us if you don't have X, Y, Z, H, D, Q, L, R, T, and P addons installed." Seriously look up progression raid videos from WoW, you can barely see the boss through all the addon windows and overlays.

Then there are affects on PvP and other things. Same reasoning for why allowing macros is bad in the long run.

 

This is probably true. If we had control of the UI we could probably find the part that pulls FPS down so much and replace or disable it. Not having addon support and full UI management in the game by now is an archaic model and needs to change.

 

uhhhhh, I don't think you understand how addons or even actual modding works. Addons are basically what they sound like, addons are programs that interface with the game. Modding (which does not nor should it ever happen in a MMO) is modification of the game data files that the game engine read.

FPS issues come when some part of the game's graphical process puts too much pressure on your GPU, or when some part of the game's actual process puts to much stress on your CPU. Neither of those are touchable by addons or modding.

[Cupelixx]

Besides addons bring a crap ton of problems, for starters it brings in a ton of issues with raiding since you have all the "you can't raid with us if you don't have X, Y, Z, H, D, Q, L, R, T, and P addons installed." Seriously look up progression raid videos from WoW, you can barely see the boss through all the addon windows and overlays.

Then there are affects on PvP and other things. Same reasoning for why allowing macros is bad in the long run.

 

Addons contribute to the experience more than detract from it. The days of most guilds in WoW saying "you need this list of addons to raid with us" are long dead. Basically the only ones required are DBM and whatever other mods you like to best play your character.

 

Mods can be used for legitimate and illegitimate purposes. The ones used for illegitimate purposes are usually dealt with swiftly (case in point, the first version of Decursive). Macros have legitimate purposes too. We shouldn't deny the use of all mods and macros just because some exist for an illegitimate purpose. They're tools, like hammers and screwdrivers. They can be used for "wrong" but they're not inherently evil.

 

uhhhhh, I don't think you understand how addons or even actual modding works. Addons are basically what they sound like, addons are programs that interface with the game. Modding (which does not nor should it ever happen in a MMO) is modification of the game data files that the game engine read.

FPS issues come when some part of the game's graphical process puts too much pressure on your GPU, or when some part of the game's actual process puts to much stress on your CPU. Neither of those are touchable by addons or modding.

 

No, I understand quite well. So please don't tell me what I know and don't know. And really, mods vs addons? The terms have been used interchangeably for a long time, so lets not split hairs. WoW's API lets you do a lot of things to the interface. Basic functions like disabling artwork, changing transparency settings, changing fonts and more (as well as some pretty advanced stuff). How does that relate here? When I turn off SWTOR's UI instead of hiding it, performance in combat is normal. That leads me to suspect that something about how the UI is being drawn or refreshing is causing the problem. Maybe there is one part of the UI that causes the whole problem.

 

Did I say I was absolutely correct about this? No. Do I concede that the problem may be related to something in the UI other than its rendering? Definitely. But if I can selectively disable (not just set the alpha to 0) specific components of the UI as I like, I will probably find ones that have no performance hit and some that have drastic hits. And if we were allowed to mod the UI, someone could possibly write their own widget to replace the performance-draining ones.

[DurdensWrath]

This is bad reasoning. First of all WoW is not dominating the market because it's a better game. Wow dominated the market because of when it was launched. Blizzard figured out how to do a mass appeal MMORPG before anyone else and launched said MMORPG when the market was ripe for it. WoW took over the mass-appeal MMORPG market before anyone else had thought to even try to compete for that market.

 

If I were to point to one reason why SWTOR has struggled I would point straight to the fact that SWTOR made the mistake of trying to beat WoW at being WoW. Seriously vanilla TOR was literally WoW with star wars skin. the thing is though, WoW already took over the market.

 

If TOR wants to succeed then Bioware needs to try to stop being WoW and try to do something innovative.

 

 

When TOR does do things that WoW did, then they shouldn't half *** them. Like dual spec. What a dadgum pain in the *** it is to have to reslot all of your talents each and every time you change specs. Wow had this down CORRECTLY when they released the ability to insta-respec.

 

And no, WoW started dominant, but it remained dominant by not having a cluster of communications, and stupid mistakes and being owned by EA. EA has harmed this game almost as much as incompetant developers. I have begun to think that Bioware hires them straight out of the University of Phoenix.

 

No, I understand quite well. So please don't tell me what I know and don't know. And really, mods vs addons? The terms have been used interchangeably for a long time, so lets not split hairs.

He's wanting to be a turd about it.

 

Addons contribute to the experience more than detract from it. The days of most guilds in WoW saying "you need this list of addons to raid with us" are long dead. Basically the only ones required are DBM and whatever other mods you like to best play your character.

you got that right. Wow's base UI for YEARS was hot garbage. The addon community made it playable. But Bioware is sitting like a kid who never learned to share going "MINE. No, I won't let you show us up!" Edited March 5, 2015 by DurdensWrath

[Zoom_VI]

Mods can be used for legitimate and illegitimate purposes. The ones used for illegitimate purposes are usually dealt with swiftly (case in point, the first version of Decursive). Macros have legitimate purposes too. We shouldn't deny the use of all mods and macros just because some exist for an illegitimate purpose. They're tools, like hammers and screwdrivers. They can be used for "wrong" but they're not inherently evil.

They are not "wrong," but having them in a massively multiplayer game is a poor design choice. I definitely wouldn't consider modding wrong considering its something

(shameless plug is shameless)

 

Not all macros are bad. However in any game that includes competitive elements they can become troublesome due to performance advantages. And this isn't just a PvP or Raiding thing either, Macros can be used to abuse pretty much everything.

Yeah there are some uses for macros that would be a great QoL buff. But it is a enforcement and PR nightmare to try to deal with defining what macros are good and which not, so its better to unilaterally ban them.

 

 

And no, WoW started dominant, but it remained dominant by not having a cluster of communications, and stupid mistakes and being owned by EA.

 

I was going to type a large paragraph up for this, but I figured that

[Cupelixx]

They are not "wrong," but having them in a massively multiplayer game is a poor design choice. I definitely wouldn't consider modding wrong considering its something

(shameless plug is shameless)

 

I still have to disagree. Maybe you've played MMOs as long as I have, maybe not. Personally, mods that improve on existing features in the game make life a hell of a lot better and easier.

 

Not all macros are bad. However in any game that includes competitive elements they can become troublesome due to performance advantages. And this isn't just a PvP or Raiding thing either, Macros can be used to abuse pretty much everything.

Yeah there are some uses for macros that would be a great QoL buff. But it is a enforcement and PR nightmare to try to deal with defining what macros are good and which not, so its better to unilaterally ban them.

 

I understand the argument, but I still disagree. People abuse the game's mechanics as it is and hackers/cheaters/botters continue to go unbanned. I don't really care if they add macro support or not. But I think the legit users would get more use out of them than the exploiters would.

[Aerich]

You guys might as well drop the addon debate; we have a better chance of getting dx12 support, a 64bit client, and proper multithreading before addons.

 

Back in the early days before the UI was customizable at all (even through it was a hotly demanded feature), I seem to recall the devs hinting that doing it was a technical feat of epic proportions. 3.0 brought a proc watcher and buff/debuff tracking and the UI is now hurting some (many?) people's fps. Correlation =/= causation but it does make one suspicious. I strongly suspect that the code running this game is an inflexible, unexpandable, patched together amalgamation of mess that would require an obscene amount of resources devoted to it before it could support any type of API framework. It likely wouldn't solve the problem anyway. Or rather even if you managed to fix UI fps loss, it's likely you'd suffer new lag/fps loss from the game trying to process your addon code on top of its own.

 

I wanted addon support too, a long time ago. Now though, with the amount and type of bugs that plague this game, I'm terrified at the idea. Make an addon that's supposed to hide your mini-map but it deletes all your gear instead. No ETA on fix at this time.

[RodneyMcNeely]

All I know is that I can get 100-120 FPS in Elder Scrolls Online with all of my settings completely maxed out.

 

In this game, I turn shadows off, but set everything else to max. I can only manage 60 FPS, and warzones drop me to a steady 35-45 FPS.

 

/shrug

[LordBeeDoO]

No additional info / patch note makes me afraid that it is considered fixed by one of the after 3.0 patch ... which would be really bad news ...

[Excise]

Agreed that performance needs to be boosted in terms of priority. I've had to go from max settings to lowest settings in 3.0 and I still see stuttering. This makes SWTOR look very ugly compared to other MMO's.

[SammuelSK]

Agreed that performance needs to be boosted in terms of priority. I've had to go from max settings to lowest settings in 3.0 and I still see stuttering. This makes SWTOR look very ugly compared to other MMO's.

 

Not only that, but there's no logic behind the performance stutters. I can be standing still, staring at a wall and my FPS swings from 105 to 40 and back up to 105. I run Temple and depending on the part of it I'm in I could be seeing 100 fps, 60 fps or 20 fps... all without exiting the area.

[emeraldon]

Not only that, but there's no logic behind the performance stutters. I can be standing still, staring at a wall and my FPS swings from 105 to 40 and back up to 105. I run Temple and depending on the part of it I'm in I could be seeing 100 fps, 60 fps or 20 fps... all without exiting the area.

 

Refreshing the monkey flying friendslist drops my fps from 120 to 5. REFRESHING IT. What the hell. If I spam click it just for the lelz, I can play SWTOR Slideshow style at a whopping 2 FPS.

[dbears]

Squeak.

[dbears]

Still nothing, huh?

[Cupelixx]

Still nothing, huh?

 

Nope. Even if someone would pop in and say "We don't know yet but we're still working on it" would be better than silence.

[Hupp]

There is no reason why my system should below 30FPS in Warzones when I have a I5@4.3, 16gb of Ram, 2 SSD, and 2 980GTX but I can routinely drop below 20.

 

This really should be their top priority. I

[Zoom_VI]

There is no reason why my system should below 30FPS in Warzones when I have a I5@4.3, 16gb of Ram, 2 SSD, and 2 980GTX but I can routinely drop below 20.

 

This really should be their top priority. I

 

cntrl+shift+f will give you a in game FPS meter that is color coded. If its red your CPU is limiting, if its green your GPU is limiting.

 

I run 35 fps with good graphics on a standard dell laptop, and run 80+ in ranked with the settings turned down a bit.

[Hupp]

cntrl+shift+f will give you a in game FPS meter that is color coded. If its red your CPU is limiting, if its green your GPU is limiting.

 

I run 35 fps with good graphics on a standard dell laptop, and run 80+ in ranked with the settings turned down a bit.

 

Its the UI. I turn off friendly name plates and i can run in 40-60 range @ 2560x1440. Just imagine if the rest was optimized. Oh I know I'm CPU limited. I'm not running AA or anything but I shouldn't have to turn down the graphics on a 3 year old game with my setup. Especially when most options are High/Low better known as On/Off. Ranked is only 8 players and isn't that bad, but Unranked or World w/16+ is a huge problem.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Hupp