Rawonspecial Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 i've been doing pug lately to get several elite gear, now that i think i had enough i want to try to hit ravager or other raid. problem is i keep getting shoved by people, i did told them that iam new as healer in raid (i never did raid as healer to be honest), is that why? last time i get kicked out the moment they see iam a scoundrel and just this afternoon somebody whispered me that nobody want soundrel healer, and just now i see an active guild looking for healer but they only accept sage or commando.... what? soo... how you guys get invite for raid anyway? keep LFGing in general chat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFaceroll Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I expect that being honest and telling people you're new to raiding when you PUG is scaring group leaders. The new raids have a steeper learning curve than previous raids. Walking in to one with no experience, either in that raid or as a raid healer in general, will mean a rough night. Find a guild that isn't full of idiots and you'll be fine. Operatives are still plenty fine healers, and you'll be much better off with a guild than trying to PUG everything as you learn how things work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawonspecial Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 thanks i try that later, so basically i just LFGing like normal but without those "iam new" stuff? well part of me dont like when we got wiped later and they all start blaming at me, you know typical new guy in raid party for blaming subject but yeah, guess i just keep trying for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFaceroll Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Don't worry, there's always at least one DPS that's standing in stupid. You can blame him if things go sideways and no one will be the wiser. You can also go to Dulfy.net and read guides (with videos) for every Operation in the game. It's not the same as actually having done it, but you'll know what to expect each fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rheia Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Current raid mechanics favor heavy burst healing along with healer mobility, and the unfortunate truth is that scoundrels/operatives have no burst healing potential at all, and are not the most mobile of the three healers anymore, if we are to utilize our abilities to their full potential. Simply put, we are the worst pick out of the three healer classes to bring to a raid. Guilds do not recruit operative/smuggler healers simply because prior to 3.0 we were outperforming most of the other healers, and a lot of people favored the class, so now there are quite a few of us around in the guilds already, and raid leads are looking to diversify. Before, bringing 2 scoundrels to 8 man, or more than 2 to 16 man was perfectly okay, now it is just plain stupid. Moreover, If the guild is looking to progress with hard mode kills, scoundrel healer makes that progress much harder, as any other combination of healers is better at combating heavy incoming burst damage mechanics while they stay alive (yes, even sage/sage). However, in story modes it does not matter at all, so some people are just being elitist jerks if they kicking you because of your class. Some things you can do to help your case: read up on mechanics on dulfy, get used to be mobile while healing, and next time you try to tell the pug raid leader that you are new, add that you know the mechanics, willing to follow any and all instructions, and capable of not standing in crap on the ground Also, try to get full 186 rating basic comms armor at the very least. Fully augment it with new grade skill or power augments (36), and buy or crat new crafted ear/implants/relics, and also augment them. Put 186 rating crafted purple barrel in your mainhand/offhand. It may be you were getting kicked because pug raid leader considered your undergeared for the encounter. Best of luck out there! Edited February 15, 2015 by rheia edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I don't agree scoundrels are worse choice because of new Ops mechanics. Especially not with the sustained multi-source damage going on in many of the new bosses which scoundrels deal great with. Healer role is the most balanced in the game at the moment. Any worse/better differences are marginal compared to tank role and the absolute MESS that is dps balance at the moment. The only reason guilds may want to prefer other healers during recruitement is like it was mentioned, oversupply of scoundrels and operatives. For a long time they were OP compared to other healers and commandos were at the rock bottom. Now everything's much more balanced. And the best strategy for guild in 16-man runs in particular is to have all healer classes. Combined, they're stupidly powerful and remove and negate individual issues each class has. Advice for you? Don't advertise yourself as "total noob", if you're feeling unsure read guides, you'll be fine. And you can always train your healing on a companion any time u want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawonspecial Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) welp, i think thats it for me being a healer for now. I finally got myself in a raid for ravager today but already got kicked after 1st boss wiped. this dps guy keep yelling at group that my heal sucks because the sage heal for like 9K++ while iam only 2-4K, i try to reason with him that scoundrel heal is not about big number but he just keep insisting to kick me out especially after ask me to show the ravager achievement which i dont have yet (which later everybody vote yes for you know... reason) think i go back for dps for now sigh, anyway thanks for the suggestion everyone Edited February 16, 2015 by Rawonspecial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakyoom Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Healing as op/scou is a tough street... There are a couple things that always go into raiding. 1) Buffs. You need to bring a 198 stat purple stim with out. They last 8 hours so log out when you're done if you're just gonna sit around in fleet afterwards. 2) Augments. If you want to do the content as a healer you NEED power augments. I'm not joking, you will fail as a healer without augments in the raids that are currently out, especially if you're not in full 186 which brings me to my next point.... 3) Gear. If you don't have 10-12 pieces of 186 gear then you probably shouldn't be raiding yet, much less trying to heal a raid. 4) Fight knowledge. There are plenty of resources on dulfy that show you the fights and to be prepared for. 5) Rotation. Your heals won't do as much as a sorc or merc healer but that's not what the class is about. Keep dots up on main tanks and try to throw out your TA proc heal(kolto infusion for op) on CD if you can. You'll never heal for as much but it's constant healing and sometimes the people who lead raids forget that you need that sometimes. All in all, keep your chin up and keep trying. If you heal well and people don't die then you'll do fine in raids. If people are dying and it's not your fault then you don't want to be in that raid anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distracted Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Don't tell them that you're new, just be awesome. Look up your responsibilities besides healing for each individual fight & just be awesome. They'll never know the difference unless you're incapable of performing basic actions or something. I joined a random pug group for TFB as a tank after a 2 year break a week after the latest expansion. I didn't tell them I hadn't done this before, I just looked up what I was expected to do & proceeded to be awesome. Edited February 16, 2015 by Distracted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaWolfAHT Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Fake it 'till you make it, honestly. Don't tell them that you're new-- it'll just scare the raid leaders. Also, realistically, scoundrel / op healers are fine. However, the community refuses to see that. Guilds clear HM Revan with Mercenary healers and tell everyone that the merc healer is the most preferred type of healer, and people see that as "MERC HEALZ ONLY REROLL MERC LOLOL". Lastly, have you considered trying raid in guild? Raid with people that you know and know you. After a little while and a bit of proving, they'll begin to take the person behind the healer and not the class. That's because they'll know you and your skillset and how proficient you are at healing. Seriously, my progression raid toon is a scoundrel healer. I tried to switch over to sage when 3.0 came out, but the raid and my co-healer basically said no-- they preferred me on my most practiced toon. That, and I suck at sage healing. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rheia Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) To be honest, if the raid is wiping on sm ravagers first boss ( sparky), you are not the only one doing something wrong. That encounter is solo healable in crap pre-3.0 gear. Also, it is near impossible for a sorc to benchmark 9K hps, even with shields on that fight, so your co-healer was full of it. Even if he did 4K hps, and half of that effective hps, your raid wouldnt die. The outgoing damage is simply not that high. Unless your whole raid is wearing lvl 50 greens or something ridiculous like that. If you really did do less hps then your co-healer however, you do need to take a look at your equipment (lots of advice in this thread already) and at your healing rotation (there is a basic guilde on dulfy). By design, scoundrels/operatives overheal because of inherent need to keep up the hots on people to do our thing, so our raw hps are always higher then any other healer, even if they are just fluff numbers that mean very little in the big picture. (no fluff overhealing can counter heavy burst). Edited February 17, 2015 by rheia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaWolfAHT Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Seconded. Ask to see this guy's 9k parse. He probably didn't do 9k, and if he did, that's like... 7k per second overhealing. A good parse on Rav boss 1 is around 2k-2.5k ehps. That's at least what I get on my scoundrel. My co-healer commando sometimes does a tiny bit better on that fight with ehps. Don't give up. You'll run into douchebags regardless of which class you play and which role you play. If you enjoy your class and role, that's all that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawonspecial Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 thanks everyone, now i think i just try to complete my elite gear first (2 more), then i switch back to my heal again when i finish my elite gear. about my guild, well my guild is kinda laid back i guess, 15 people online more or less everyday and iam 1 of the 3 people at level 60, its really casual guild. i should be looking for an active guild but on the other hand i cant online everyday too soo yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantalahir Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Ah, pugs 9K++ on sage? I believe this. Absolutely. No doubt. Certainly. If this guy was doing 9k on SM no other healer would be ever needed. For reference you can do Sparky HM with 8k effective heal easily. So, they lie. Also they were a group full of bad players. Wiping on Sparky is an achievement even for an elitist pug. 4-5K HPS is enough for the majority of the SM fights. That's is why people are telling you that Sparky is solo healable. On scoundrel healing. Yes, we are the weakest and yes, there is logic to prefer the other two classes for HM operations. For SMs we are perfectly fine. Aim to do 4k HPs and you will be fine. TL;DR: do not despair, pugs are usually full of big ego idiots. Find a decent guild and you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacynski Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just to a add a bit about your guild. Mine is also rather laid back and casual, but after about 1 year of constant nugging I managed to get a full 8m guild raid running. We are not the best raiders out there, but we manage the new OP's in SM just fine. So, maybe if you take a bit responsibility within your guild, talk with people and get them interested you might have an OP group much faster than you think. My guild is about the siize of yours, btw. maybe even smaller (6 - 15 peeps online usually) About Scoundrel healing: I think Scoundrel is a very much underrated healer atm. It does not do the big burst numbers as Commando or Sage, but it is really good in sustained healing of raid wide damage. I usually play Commando heals and I love it when there is a Scoundrel as my co-healer. In that case I will mostly concentrate on targets with low health, whereas the Scoundrel takes care of topping everybody of. I think there is great synergy. Also Scoundrel is King (Queen) of AoE heals. If you know how to play scoundrel, you will usually do top HPS (with a lot of oveerheal, but still the raw numbers are impressive) and you are invaluable at keeping a raid group above "1-shot threshold" so to speak. Commandos can get someone out of the pit, Scoundrels avoid people falling into the pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijsen Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just to a add a bit about your guild. Mine is also rather laid back and casual, but after about 1 year of constant nugging I managed to get a full 8m guild raid running. We are not the best raiders out there, but we manage the new OP's in SM just fine. So, maybe if you take a bit responsibility within your guild, talk with people and get them interested you might have an OP group much faster than you think. My guild is about the siize of yours, btw. maybe even smaller (6 - 15 peeps online usually) About Scoundrel healing: I think Scoundrel is a very much underrated healer atm. It does not do the big burst numbers as Commando or Sage, but it is really good in sustained healing of raid wide damage. I usually play Commando heals and I love it when there is a Scoundrel as my co-healer. In that case I will mostly concentrate on targets with low health, whereas the Scoundrel takes care of topping everybody of. I think there is great synergy. Also Scoundrel is King (Queen) of AoE heals. If you know how to play scoundrel, you will usually do top HPS (with a lot of oveerheal, but still the raw numbers are impressive) and you are invaluable at keeping a raid group above "1-shot threshold" so to speak. Commandos can get someone out of the pit, Scoundrels avoid people falling into the pit. This^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Scoundrel healing is fine atm, great aoe heals, excellent hots and decent burst (though requires constant energy management) when needed. Keep the healing buffs up maintain upperhand at all times. Previously the class was considerably op healing, now it is right where it needs to be. The only time scoundrel healing is weak in a raid is when paired with another scoundrel. My advice to you (op) is to practice in flashpoints, get full 186 gear and augment it with power augments along with maybe 2 mainstat augments. As you progress the gear will boost your mainstat where it needs to go. Power is the key though, more power better base healing across the board. There is an excellent guide to pve healing on duffy here's the link http://dulfy.net/2015/02/02/swtor-3-0-scoundrel-sawbones-healing-guide-by-orderken/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decrisit Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I swear to god, if I see one more person point to that **** filled Dulfy guide I'm going to freak the hell out. That guide is WHY he's having a hard time. Scoundrels absolutely do have burst healing in the UWM/EMP combo. With those two skills you can heal 7k-18k HP in 2 seconds on one person. If you break it up (which I do depending on the situation) that's 5-12k on one person and 3-6k on a second person. And that's not even counting the KC on every GCD pop! All you scoundrels working on the SRMP rotations are doing nothing for this class other than relegate it to a permanent off-healer status. SRMP on the whole raid takes some 16GCDs and then you're having to burn 8GCDs on EMP to keep the stack up. HoT Healing is only useful for SOLO DAMAGE ENCOUNTERS. Otherwise you're burning GCD when you could be healing others. Damnit I'm angry again. Do not get me started on the **** stat distribution again. You want to be a burst healers? THEN ACT LIKE IT. Stop with this **** for crit bullcrap. We're not sages, so stop taking advise from sages that rerolled for FOTM!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) I swear to god, if I see one more person point to that **** filled Dulfy guide I'm going to freak the hell out. That guide is WHY he's having a hard time. Scoundrels absolutely do have burst healing in the UWM/EMP combo. With those two skills you can heal 7k-18k HP in 2 seconds on one person. If you break it up (which I do depending on the situation) that's 5-12k on one person and 3-6k on a second person. And that's not even counting the KC on every GCD pop! All you scoundrels working on the SRMP rotations are doing nothing for this class other than relegate it to a permanent off-healer status. SRMP on the whole raid takes some 16GCDs and then you're having to burn 8GCDs on EMP to keep the stack up. HoT Healing is only useful for SOLO DAMAGE ENCOUNTERS. Otherwise you're burning GCD when you could be healing others. Damnit I'm angry again. Do not get me started on the **** stat distribution again. You want to be a burst healers? THEN ACT LIKE IT. Stop with this **** for crit bullcrap. We're not sages, so stop taking advise from sages that rerolled for FOTM!!! This guy read a single line in the entire guide and didnt even read the line after it that said "In general, however, it's a tremendous disservice to yourself, your co-healer and your Operations Group, because it replaces the keen Triage, Burst EHPS and teamwork with one's co-healer that are the hallmarks of progression raiding with just mindless HPS farming" and got mad about it. Protip: The guy did maths to figure out optimal gear, and it can be altered to your rotation to see what the optimal gear for each fight should be. Also, crit for sage healers... .... hahahahaha I get it you're a major bad who thinks bubbles can crit! (only explanation for that I've got). Sages take the least crit of the healers because Force Armor can't crit, and makes a large portion of their 'healing'. Edited February 22, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decrisit Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) This guy read a single line in the entire guide and didnt even read the line after it that said "In general, however, it's a tremendous disservice to yourself, your co-healer and your Operations Group, because it replaces the keen Triage, Burst EHPS and teamwork with one's co-healer that are the hallmarks of progression raiding with just mindless HPS farming" and got mad about it. Protip: The guy did maths to figure out optimal gear, and it can be altered to your rotation to see what the optimal gear for each fight should be. Also, crit for sage healers... .... hahahahaha I get it you're a major bad who thinks bubbles can crit! (only explanation for that I've got). Sages take the least crit of the healers because Force Armor can't crit, and makes a large portion of their 'healing'. I said something that got edited. I was talking about the LOW crit, as Sages do not need. As Scoundrels, crit is far far far more important. And no, I read the whole thing. While some HoT healing is, in general, a good idea, dedicating the entire thing to HoT is not. People that say we have no burst are just HoT healing and focusing on power in my opinion. Edited February 22, 2015 by Decrisit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rheia Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Since we are going off topic, I will pop a vein next time someone suggests scoundrels burst heal -just fine-. You call 7-18K in 2 seconds a burst? Check your facts better. Look what other healer classes can achive with 0 cast time in 1-2 global cooldowns only. Scoundrels are fine and dandy for story modes. Anything beyond, we are FAR, far from fine. Capable of completing the content? Sure. But we tax out co-healer to their limit, whereas any other combo of classes does not. Edited February 23, 2015 by rheia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faardor Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Since we are going off topic, I will pop a vein next time someone suggests scoundrels burst heal -just fine-. You call 5-12K in 2 seconds a burst? Check your facts better. Look what other healer classes can achive with 0 cast time in 1-2 global cooldowns only. Scoundrels are fine and dandy for story modes. Anything beyond, we are FAR, far from fine. yeah 5-12k in 2 seconds for burst? Laughable. Anyway that aside, instead of wanting to throw yourself into the depths of the new operations try to get some practice on your healer doing SM TFB, SnV, DF, DP or HM TFB, SnV if you feel confident enough maybe even HM DP and DF but those require you to be a bit more on your game. And try to join a guild that does those operations and is fine with teaching people how to heal (my own guild would be fine in doing something like that for example and im pretty sure there are other newbie friendly guilds out there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
October Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 To be honest, if the raid is wiping on sm ravagers first boss ( sparky), you are not the only one doing something wrong. That encounter is solo healable in crap pre-3.0 gear. Also, it is near impossible for a sorc to benchmark 9K hps, even with shields on that fight, so your co-healer was full of it. Even if he did 4K hps, and half of that effective hps, your raid wouldnt die. The outgoing damage is simply not that high. Unless your whole raid is wearing lvl 50 greens or something ridiculous like that. If you really did do less hps then your co-healer however, you do need to take a look at your equipment (lots of advice in this thread already) and at your healing rotation (there is a basic guilde on dulfy). By design, scoundrels/operatives overheal because of inherent need to keep up the hots on people to do our thing, so our raw hps are always higher then any other healer, even if they are just fluff numbers that mean very little in the big picture. (no fluff overhealing can counter heavy burst). This, pretty much. I main a sorc and sage healer and run these constantly. I don't think I break above 4k healing per second, but in Sparky, I hardly even heal at all during SM. My Operative co-healer does almost all the healing while I DPS. Again, as said above, scoundrels/ops often overheal. You'll do a lot of outgoing healing because of your HoTs, but it doesn't make you ineffective in story mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Oh yeah I forgot to laugh about the 5-12k + 2-5k in a GCD being called "Burst". Considering Force Armor was 7k pre 3.0, i'd have to say a Deliverance + Force Armor combo is gonna prevent a hell of a lot more damage than UWM + EM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjchan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Completely agree with the folks who are saying that operative burst lags behind the other healer classes (my burst if I'm lucky over a 2-3 second period is anywhere around 10K to 20K if I get crits). I mean my merc healer is nowhere near as min/maxed nor has as good of gear as my operative healer and his burst outstrips my op healer in a shorter timeframe, with most of those heals happening on the run. IMO, if you want to use your op healer in burst mode, more power to you but on the nut-check bosses (Underlurker primarily, Bulo and Squadron sorta), I think you're putting your group at your risk. I think in those fights the main utility of an operative is to keep hots up on as many folks as possible and spam your AOEs (i.e. Orderken Hero Mode) to help the group survive massive AOE damage periods and let your healing companion focus on bursting. Edited February 25, 2015 by kjchan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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