2018 Expertise Main PVP Stat Is Essential

[LeetRage]

This is a great thread. Thanks for taking the time @Icykill_ to put it together and thanks to everyone for contributing their knowledge here. Swtor Pvp beginners like myself appreciate it. I have already applied the gearing principles to a couple of my toons that are still leveling and seen great improvement. 2018 expertise makes a world of difference. Of course, you guys are right!

 

My current project is gearing my main level 60 Op healer. I have most everything put together, but ran into one problem. I cannot locate any level 162 barrel mods for MH weapon. I, unfortunately, didn't save any of 162 barrels while leveling up as I was unaware of the pvp use at the time. I've scoured the GTN with no luck finding any. Does anyone know of a source for a 162 barrel mod or weapon that might have a 162 barrel that I can strip?

 

Thanks!

 

^^ I believe there is a 162 everything vendor on the Imperial space station. It should be in the section where all the PVE gear is sold. Then the last section to the right is the level 50+ section, there is a modifications vendor located at that location. I am pretty sure I saw everything sold for consumption there.

[Darknessinme]

Do you have relics in the slots?

You need to have every slot filled to get 2018 expertise...

Personally I start diplomacy as my first profession and send my companion all the time to do missions... Even then sometimes I get to lvl 19 (the earliest you can equip relics) and don't have enough light side or dark side points to hit Lvl 2... The easiest way to fix this is to run 2-3 of the starting Flash Point for either Imp or Rep,,. You can do this at lvL 15-18 solo and at 17-19 without companions... You also don't have to kill everything... Just speed run it to finish and get your light/dark side points... I can speed run in 7 mins... So you can get 600 points in 20-30 mins

 

I kinda wish they would just remove the LS/DS restrictions on relics and leave the level restrictions on. That way at level 19-20 everyone could be fully bolstered , assuming they purchase the implants and ear piece from the pvp vendor on DK or Coruscant. Just my 2 cents.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Darknessinme

[reffjal]

^^ I believe there is a 162 everything vendor on the Imperial space station. It should be in the section where all the PVE gear is sold. Then the last section to the right is the level 50+ section, there is a modifications vendor located at that location. I am pretty sure I saw everything sold for consumption there.

 

Thanks for your reply. Yea, I purchased a bunch of the 162 "Black Market" gear with comms from the vendors there. The mods vendors there sell level 148 and 168. I went ahead and bought 148 mods to get going. I guess it's only temporary until I can get my pvp set. It just sucks to have my MH dps less than it should be. I'm a healer and all, but hey, I hit stuff!

[Icykill_]

Having 2018 expertise puts you on the same level, which will allow you to survive more effectively for sure. Past that it comes down to learning the class you're playing. The big thing is you won't be handing the enemy team extra damage percentages for each attack , which is huge.

 

The way i think about it is % wise; 2018 expertise gives everyone 60% damage increase and 30% damage decrease (I think its 30%, at work and don't remember, but irrelevant for comparison) The idea is that damage reduction from max expertise works to nulify a portion of that bonus pvp damage increase the enemy has. When you don't have max expertise, lets say that 1.1k you were saying before, you have only around half the pvp damage reduction, and every enemy that has 60% pvp damage increase (most people and every pvp geared player) is having less of that number mitigated on you for each of their attacks (down to 0% for no expertise gear, which is why pvp gear in open world vs pve gear is God) Conversely, if a DPS doesn't have 2018 expertise and has 1.1k, they're only doing a hair over 30% PvP damage, and their damage bonus is cut to next to nothing (or even less than normal if they have 900, which is around where full 192's puts you) when attacking a player with max expertise and conversly, max pvp damage reduction.

 

The only other issue with having less expertise is other classes can Crit higher on you... ie the average Crit a Sorc does is betweent 8-10k... I regularly do crits with 15-17k when playing people with lower expertise than 2018...

Sure the PVP stats say you get a boost and reduction in damage with how much expertise you have... But it doesn't mention the extra high crit's players with 2018 expertise can do on you

So even if you have 50k health in PVE gear that gives you lower expertise... Imagine getting 3 shot by a sniper for 20k+... I would rather get Crit a lot less and mitigate some of that damage while I can heal or the healer can heal me... A healer cannot keep up with that sort of damage... When I'm on a healer, I just stop trying to heal people who are geared wrong and getting focused... I know it's harsh... But it wastes resources that could be better spent on other team mates

Edited May 20, 2015 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

This is a great thread. Thanks for taking the time @Icykill_ to put it together and thanks to everyone for contributing their knowledge here. Swtor Pvp beginners like myself appreciate it. I have already applied the gearing principles to a couple of my toons that are still leveling and seen great improvement. 2018 expertise makes a world of difference. Of course, you guys are right!

 

My current project is gearing my main level 60 Op healer. I have most everything put together, but ran into one problem. I cannot locate any level 162 barrel mods for MH weapon. I, unfortunately, didn't save any of 162 barrels while leveling up as I was unaware of the pvp use at the time. I've scoured the GTN with no luck finding any. Does anyone know of a source for a 162 barrel mod or weapon that might have a 162 barrel that I can strip?

 

Thanks!

 

If you can't get 162 barrels, but can find 162 mods or enhancement, you can use a 148 barrel, 162 or 148 mod, 162 or 148 enhancement... The rule is you can only have 162 item equiped, the rest must be 148

At least this was the case before the latest bolster update... I haven't checked... But I will... I have a healer that has a 162 enhancement on the offhand and 148 other items... I was getting 2018 expertise before

Edited May 20, 2015 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

^^ I believe there is a 162 everything vendor on the Imperial space station. It should be in the section where all the PVE gear is sold. Then the last section to the right is the level 50+ section, there is a modifications vendor located at that location. I am pretty sure I saw everything sold for consumption there.

 

Just be aware it isn't BiS stuff...

I've run the starting Revan missions multiple times now to get most of my162 gear... They are greens, but the same stats as 162 purples... And because they're greens, you can put the Armor mods you take out into any slot... They are not bound to that type of Armor piece like they are with purple 162 items

You can speed run those missions pretty quick in solo mod after you've done them a few times... Just make sure your companion is geared well and use the solo mode droid

[Amaste]

The only other issue with having less expertise is other classes can Crit higher on you... ie the average Crit a Sorc does is betweent 8-10k... I regularly do crits with 15-17k when playing people with lower expertise than 2018...

Sure the PVP stats say you get a boost and reduction in damage with how much expertise you have... But it doesn't mention the extra high crit's players with 2018 expertise can do on you

So even if you have 50k health in PVE gear that gives you lower expertise... Imagine getting 3 shot by a sniper for 20k+... I would rather get Crit a lot less and mitigate some of that damage while I can heal or the healer can heal me... A healer cannot keep up with that sort of damage... When I'm on a healer, I just stop trying to heal people who are geared wrong and getting focused... I know it's harsh... But it wastes resources that could be better spent on other team mates

 

I factored that in my head but i didn't mention it, ty for pointing it out. But yeah, higher damage done via less defensive mitigation on the PvP bonus means surge gets to work off higher numbers to start with. So instead of a base damage hit of 11k for instance working off a 74% surge (random numbers, for the sake of a example) the base damage that surge works with may be 13.5k or something if you're low on expertise. Doesn't sound like a large difference, but adds up quick with multiple people attacking (average crit chance 18-24% not to mention setting up auto crits that several classes have 6-p bonuses for, surge at 70-76%, times all that by the number of attackers equals a hard switch globaling, which is a sad sad time )

[reffjal]

If you can't get 162 barrels, but can find 162 mods or enhancement, you can use a 148 barrel, 162 or 148 mod, 162 or 148 enhancement... The rule is you can only have 162 item equiped, the rest must be 148

At least this was the case before the latest bolster update... I haven't checked... But I will... I have a healer that has a 162 enhancement on the offhand and 148 other items... I was getting 2018 expertise before

 

Nice! Yes, I had several other 162 armors, mods, and enhancements. So, I dropped in a 162 Savant Enhancement into my MH ( now has 148 barrel, 148 mod, 162 enhancement) and I'm still at 2018. My OH is still 162/148/148 and everything else is 162. Well, it was 162 when I started today. I've been busy and am now at 4/7 Exhumed set and have my pvp relics as well.

 

Thanks for the great advice!

[reffjal]

Just be aware it isn't BiS stuff...

I've run the starting Revan missions multiple times now to get most of my162 gear... They are greens, but the same stats as 162 purples... And because they're greens, you can put the Armor mods you take out into any slot... They are not bound to that type of Armor piece like they are with purple 162 items

You can speed run those missions pretty quick in solo mod after you've done them a few times... Just make sure your companion is geared well and use the solo mode droid

 

Yes, I was unaware that the Legendary (purple ) level barrels, mods, armor, etc can be 'locked' to specific armor types. Before I posted this request, I bought an offhand weapon from the level 50 162 gear vendor in Imp fleet and assumed that I could remove the barrel and use it in my main hand weapon. I was able to successfully remove the barrel which made the weapon non-refundable. But when I went to install it in my main hand weapon, it said that it could only be purposed in an off-hand weapon. It probably warned me when I removed it, but who reads EVERY pop-up message?

 

So, yea, for anyone who was not aware, if you have a choice, you should probably stick to the green mods if the stats are equal. As, Icykill_ has explained,they have no restrictions binding them to a specific armor type.

[Cryowolf]

So I have a 55 Operative with all 156 gear and mods, except for two level 19 relics and I'm sitting at 1908 expertise.

 

What do I change to get to 2018?

[reffjal]

So I have a 55 Operative with all 156 gear and mods, except for two level 19 relics and I'm sitting at 1908 expertise.

 

What do I change to get to 2018?

 

I think that the sticking point there is your main hand and off hand weapons. If you have any 148 mods/enhancements available, you should put them into both your MH / OH. Keep the barrels at 156 and change the mods and enhancements.

 

I actually hit 1908 on my level 55 operative as well yesterday. It took me a few minutes of review of @Icykill_'s post to realize that you need to mix the enhancement levels in your weapons. Refer back to page 1 to get a good explanation as to why it works this way

[Cryowolf]

I think that the sticking point there is your main hand and off hand weapons. If you have any 148 mods/enhancements available, you should put them into both your MH / OH. Keep the barrels at 156 and change the mods and enhancements.

 

That did the trick, thanks!

[Banderal]

So I read through this thread, and I think this has been covered briefly, but I'm not sure I understood it... besides, reiterating the question will bump this thread back to the top.

 

I know that augments is not the main point of this thread, but I'm about to hit 60 and I'm trying not to waste my credits buying the wrong augs since I don't have any previous-high-level toon to throw credits at Flint. So, for augments, my understanding is that they are NOT taken into account for the expertise level when bolstering (at lvl 60 at least). With JUST expertise in mind, I could get any level augments I want.

 

But, bolster does mess with the other stats with respect to augments if you start to get above "some level", which is probably, again, about 162s. And that "messing with" is usually to start lowering health, which I don't want since Flint is a tank.

 

Do I have that right?

 

So I'm thinking that I'll be buying 162-ish augments, just like the magic "162" number for everything else, to put into my gear as a good starting point for level 60 PvP. Does that make sense?

[Icykill_]

So I read through this thread, and I think this has been covered briefly, but I'm not sure I understood it... besides, reiterating the question will bump this thread back to the top.

 

I know that augments is not the main point of this thread, but I'm about to hit 60 and I'm trying not to waste my credits buying the wrong augs since I don't have any previous-high-level toon to throw credits at Flint. So, for augments, my understanding is that they are NOT taken into account for the expertise level when bolstering (at lvl 60 at least). With JUST expertise in mind, I could get any level augments I want.

 

But, bolster does mess with the other stats with respect to augments if you start to get above "some level", which is probably, again, about 162s. And that "messing with" is usually to start lowering health, which I don't want since Flint is a tank.

 

Do I have that right?

 

So I'm thinking that I'll be buying 162-ish augments, just like the magic "162" number for everything else, to put into my gear as a good starting point for level 60 PvP. Does that make sense?

 

You are correct that Augments don't affect expertise...

But they can affect health stats with bolster

The reason is when you don't have augments equiped, the bolster system gives you some extra endurance to slightly compensate... Once you add augments, that extra endurance/health bolster is removed in favour of the Augments you have equiped... Because all Augs come with a secondary stat, it's those extra stats that you trade in the health reduction...

Equipping any Lvl Augs can do this... So it's always better to have the highest LvL Augs for your LvL... Because you'll be equipping for lvl 60... Use the 186 purple ones

[Banderal]

You are correct that Augments don't affect expertise...

But they can affect health stats with bolster

The reason is when you don't have augments equiped, the bolster system gives you some extra endurance to slightly compensate... Once you add augments, that extra endurance/health bolster is removed in favour of the Augments you have equiped... Because all Augs come with a secondary stat, it's those extra stats that you trade in the health reduction...

Equipping any Lvl Augs can do this... So it's always better to have the highest LvL Augs for your LvL... Because you'll be equipping for lvl 60... Use the 186 purple ones

 

Got it. Thanks!

[TriviumCoRe]

TL;DR version for 2018 expertise:

1. Aquire 162 green set from SoR Prelude or buy lvl 50/53 gear

2. Buy green relics either from light or dark side vendor. Also you can buy lvl 50 or 55 relics but IMO it's cheaper to get green ones.

3. Put 148 mods/enhancements in your mainhand and offhand. Use +41 power crystal, so it will be like 41/162/148/148

After these steps you can start farming your Exumed gear. I found most efficient way to gear up fast, it works for me so don't take this recommendations as the only way to gear up!

1. Farm your Exumed relic first. I can't stress enough how important to get relics as first priority. It's a HUGE dps gain.

2. Get your set! Start from belt and bracers and continue with head/chest/arms/legs. Don't buy 7th set piece yet, you have already 6-piece set. From this point you are mostly "competetive".

3. Mainhand and offhand. No comments.

4. Earpiece and implants. They're cheap and give a lot of expertise.

5. Your last armoring (usually it's feet)

Now you have your full Exumed gear. It's your choice to min/max it or not but i hope these tips help you

Edited May 24, 2015 by TriviumCoRe

[HaoZhao]

I hate to look like a newbie but I never PVP'd until just a few days ago when my son asked me to do it with him. Needless to say without PVP gear we got destroyed. Our problem is that I cannot find any vendors that sell PVP gear except for LVL 60. Where are the lower level vendors?

 

Thank you,

 

Kilians

 

Your issue is probably less about gear and more about game play experience. Everyone should expect to be absolute trash in PVP for like their first 100 matches. Players have a lot of defensive toys that you don't have to deal with in flash points. To get good at PVP you need to know every spec in the game and what it can do to counter you.

[Icykill_]

TL;DR version for 2018 expertise:

1. Aquire 162 green set from SoR Prelude or buy lvl 50/53 gear

2. Buy green relics either from light or dark side vendor. Also you can buy lvl 50 or 55 relics but IMO it's cheaper to get green ones.

3. Put 148 mods/enhancements in your mainhand and offhand. Use +41 power crystal, so it will be like 41/162/148/148

After these steps you can start farming your Exumed gear. I found most efficient way to gear up fast, it works for me so don't take this recommendations as the only way to gear up!

1. Farm your Exumed relic first. I can't stress enough how important to get relics as first priority. It's a HUGE dps gain.

2. Get your set! Start from belt and bracers and continue with head/chest/arms/legs. Don't buy 7th set piece yet, you have already 6-piece set. From this point you are mostly "competetive".

3. Mainhand and offhand. No comments.

4. Earpiece and implants. They're cheap and give a lot of expertise.

5. Your last armoring (usually it's feet)

Now you have your full Exumed gear. It's your choice to min/max it or not but i hope these tips help you

 

I agree with how to gear up cheaply with 162 gear... except I disagree with what to get first in exhumed... because you are using much lower lvl weapons to max 2018 expertise...

The first thing you should get is new weapons and off hand...

Then at least 2 piece of set Armor to start you set bonus... I usually pick the belt and wrist as these are the cheapest

Then relics

Then implants or ear, but only if you didn't already have 162 ear and implants, if you do have 162 ear and implants, you should finish your set bonus,... Then get the ear and implants

Lastly get your 7th piece of Armor... It doesn't need to part of the set because you already have your set bonus... Just get what ever piece gives the best stats

 

Now to save credits and allow you to have Augments from when you hit 60, make sure you use adaptive Armor that isn't the pvp shells because you have to trade them in to get your ranked items...

 

Last tip... I usually like to swap exhumbed for ranked relics, ear and implants straight away by having enough ranks comms to do a upgrade as soon as I buy them... Reason is you can augment them straight away... But that's just personal preference

Edited May 24, 2015 by Icykill_

[TriviumCoRe]

I agree with how to gear up cheaply with 162 gear... except I disagree with what to get first in exhumed... because you are using much lower lvl weapons to max 2018 expertise...

The first thing you should get is new weapons and off hand...

Then at least 2 piece of set Armor to start you set bonus... I usually pick the belt and wrist as these are the cheapest

Then relics

Then implants or ear, but only if you didn't already have 162 ear and implants, if you do have 162 ear and implants, you should finish your set bonus,... Then get the ear and implants

Lastly get your 7th piece of Armor... It doesn't need to part of the set because you already have your set bonus... Just get what ever piece gives the best stats

 

Now to save credits and allow you to have Augments from when you hit 60, make sure you use adaptive Armor that isn't the pvp shells because you have to trade them in to get your ranked items...

 

Last tip... I usually like to swap exhumbed for ranked relics, ear and implants straight away by having enough ranks comms to do a upgrade as soon as I buy them... Reason is you can augment them straight away... But that's just personal preference

Well, the reason i pick relics first is that their procs compensate lack of dmg from 162 green MH and OH, same with 6-piece set bonus, so i think it works that way:)

[Exeeter]

So how much if an expertise hit will one take if they equip all up to date pvp gear except they swap out specific armorings, for example. ......

 

they have a full set of lvl 60 pvp gear but they put in 2 lvl 50 pve armorings and 2 lvl 55 pvp armorings for 2 unique set bonuses?

 

At lvl 55 this was the norm for a lot of players and they only took a tiny tiny expertise hit. with the lvl cap up to 60 would the bolster effect not be as acceptable?

[Banderal]

OK, this isn't that big a deal, but I'm still wondering what I'm missing. Here's a pic of my stats when I swapped out my chest slot components from 116 blues to 162 greens (hopefully legible).

 

http://imgur.com/G29yRTk

 

I left everything else the same, just swapped out armor, mod & enhancement. Everything is 116 blues except:

 

Wrist, which I swapped out to 162 green a couple days ago, and noticed this confusion.

Ear is 162 purple.

MH is exhumed

OH is dark reaver

1 relic is exhumed

 

The 3 actual PvP pieces are all "shadow tank" gear, and have purple 186 fortitude augs in them.

Various level fort augs in the rest of the gear that is customizable, but nothing over 148 blue (most much less than that).

 

Granted my stats changed a very small amount, but why did they all go DOWN? I expected it was supposed to go up a bit? Any ideas? Do that low a level blues just bolster that well?

 

Thanks.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Banderal

[Icykill_]

OK, this isn't that big a deal, but I'm still wondering what I'm missing. Here's a pic of my stats when I swapped out my chest slot components from 116 blues to 162 greens (hopefully legible).

 

http://imgur.com/G29yRTk

 

I left everything else the same, just swapped out armor, mod & enhancement. Everything is 116 blues except:

 

Wrist, which I swapped out to 162 green a couple days ago, and noticed this confusion.

Ear is 162 purple.

MH is exhumed

OH is dark reaver

1 relic is exhumed

 

The 3 actual PvP pieces are all "shadow tank" gear, and have purple 186 fortitude augs in them.

Various level fort augs in the rest of the gear that is customizable, but nothing over 148 blue (most much less than that).

 

Granted my stats changed a very small amount, but why did they all go DOWN? I expected it was supposed to go up a bit? Any ideas? Do that low a level blues just bolster that well?

 

Thanks.

 

That is an excellent question.... One I will have to investigate because it didn't seem to work that way before the 3.2 patch that updated bolster for pre60

I am now wondering if it's some how broken lvl 60 bolster

It might be a few days till I can test it... But I'll try and get back to you asap

Edited May 27, 2015 by Icykill_

[EmilmcUgly]

That is an excellent question.... One I will have to investigate because it didn't seem to work that way before the 3.2 patch that updated bolster for pre60

I am now wondering if it's some how broken lvl 60 bolster

It might be a few days till I can test it... But I'll try and get back to you asap

 

Isn't this related to the previous question about augments? Since bolster is supposed to even everybody out to some extent, increasing your stats with equipment will tend to decrease them in PVP. I was just experimenting with a lvl 51 commando I've got, and found that crap equipment actually gives me better attack and hp than the better stuff, even while my exp stays at 2018.

[Banderal]

Yeah, well either something is wonky, or why am I even buying PvP gear to PvP in? Too lazy to make a picture this time (but I can if you want "proof"). I went to the trouble of getting a dark reaver relic of reactive warding (so "ranked" gear, right... the best I can get?), and I plopped a 186 purple fortitude augment in it. Again, the best I can get?

 

Now I have an relic slot that has/had an item rating 46 green "relic of psychic heorism" (+22 end, +6 pow), with an item level 90 green fort aug (11 end, 6 pow) (so a total level requirement of 41, because of the aug). I swap out for the dark reaver, and this is what happens...

 

green relic / dark reaver

end: 3717 / 3696

will: 2375 / 2264

exp: 2018 / 2018

b dmg : 1173.5 / 1153.4

b heal: 848.8 / 834.8

crit : 12.79 / 12.55

def: 18.67 / 18.86

absorb: 28.66 / 28.17

 

I guess my defense went up a whole 0.2%. Wow. That totally makes up for everything else going down. I guess I'll stick to my level 41 gear for now!

[Icykill_]

Isn't this related to the previous question about augments? Since bolster is supposed to even everybody out to some extent, increasing your stats with equipment will tend to decrease them in PVP. I was just experimenting with a lvl 51 commando I've got, and found that crap equipment actually gives me better attack and hp than the better stuff, even while my exp stays at 2018.

 

Bolster on Augments is seperate from other gear bolster...

One thing with bolster which I mentioned near the front of the original post in the thread is that as you get past 50 and move closer to 59, it can start to get a bit weird and in some cases its trial and error.

Even though your getting better health and bonus damage, you'll probably find that your secondary stats are a lot lower than they were when you were a lower lvl... This is because bolster wants you to take responsibility for them...

Sure you can run the lower gear, get higher health etc... But your surge, alacrity and Crit will more than like be lower....

The trade off for having those lower is to increase the main damage and health stat... This is usuable, but certainly not balanced... Personally I would prefer to trade some bonus damage stat for extra surge for when I crit, so I do bigger hits...

Remember when gearing you need to try to balance all your stats... Have a look at what sort of percentages you want on those stats when you are at 60, then try to get close to those percentages at a lower LvL... Use the bolster terminal to test this... Once you are close to those percentages, stack as much power as possible (assuming your dps)...

Just always remember you want 2018 expertise...

The simple method when you reach 53 is to do the Armor setup as described at the beginning of the thread