Not adjusting the slot machine is the worst thing they can do.

[Transcendent]

Which were largely bought up by those having made millions on purple mats before the machine and are now safely stored away waiting for the prices to return.

 

At least according to those who make a living (read: fortune) off selling rare mats on the GTN in my guild.

 

They had enough millions saved away to buy up bulk quantities of the low-price mats once they found out there would be a nerf.

Now they're just waiting for the prices to go up so they can tenfold their profit.

 

Includes a few of the original protesters about the mats being available in the first place.

[Grayseven]

Which were largely bought up by those having made millions on purple mats before the machine and are now safely stored away waiting for the prices to return.

 

At least according to those who make a living (read: fortune) off selling rare mats on the GTN in my guild.

 

They had enough millions saved away to buy up bulk quantities of the low-price mats once they found out there would be a nerf.

Now they're just waiting for the prices to go up so they can tenfold their profit.

 

Yep. It happens in real life markets too.

 

While I make most of my credits off of other things, I've always kept an eye on materials prices and bought up mats I thought were below market value. Anyone who crafts or plays the GTN knew that the slot machine JJ drop rates were going to be hit with the nerf bat and we became speculators, buying up cheap mats on the very good chance the price would go up.

 

It did. Most of the mats I purchased ended up being used to craft but even at a doubling of materials prices I stand to gain many, many credits.

 

Materials pricing for a new tier are always higher than normal at the start. This is because players willing to spend credits to get geared drive prices. As those players get geared, demand drops and so does prices. As more players are geared there is less need for rare materials. The price continues to drop. Eventually, you reach an equilibrium with the prices of those new, rare materials.

 

Too many players aren't willing to wait. They want the gear now...even if they don't need it. The only people who should be trying to gear hard and fast are players in Operations groups. But because even Joe Dailies wants top tier gear (even if he doesn't need it) demand is high and so are the prices.

 

Funny thing though. With the comm conversion, players (myself included) are sitting on enough comms to fully outfit toons in Yavin 186 gear. While the optimization on that gear isn't great, and some of it is bugged, I'm having a hard time understanding why there is even a demand for crafted 186 gear considering it will be thrown away rapidly as players run FP's and OP's.

[hooty]

Leaving the machine "as is" is a bad choice, but I don't know if it's the "worst" thing they could do. It's like voting in a new politician based on the argument "they can't be worse than the old one". They sure can be;)

 

Anyway, I definitely think they should change it again. I do not think the change should involve jawa scraps. Jawa scraps is a rathole that could be debated and argued forever. More important I think is to add something (anything) that makes the machines "not worthless" but won't trash the economy of make crew missions worthless. I think the walkers were an attempt to do just that, but just executed poorly (and certainly rushed). Multiple people have made suggestions for worthwhile prizes. Wouldn't it be much easier and safer for BW to focus on that?

[Max_Killjoy]

Which were largely bought up by those having made millions on purple mats before the machine and are now safely stored away waiting for the prices to return.

 

At least according to those who make a living (read: fortune) off selling rare mats on the GTN in my guild.

 

They had enough millions saved away to buy up bulk quantities of the low-price mats once they found out there would be a nerf.

 

Now they're just waiting for the prices to go up so they can tenfold their profit.

 

So the overall effect of the bait-and-switch with the CSM was just to make things even "better" for the GTNtards?

 

Lovely.

 

Also, isn't funny how the GTNtards really believe that taking away their precious cash cow would have "ruined the economy"?

Edited January 24, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[saremun]

Oh what...what .... who died??????.....oh nvm it's the bloody Slot machines again.....

 

 

Give it a rest people because you are ridiculing yourself with each new slot machines post...

[jojobanutz]

I'll say this only once. They should pick the middle road and adjust the drop rates to be a bit more appealing. At the moment there is no reason to clickfest on that machine.

 

Thank you, that is all.

I agree completely, it would be a shame to kill off the slot machine concept entirely. I think it has the potential to be a useful and fun addition to the game.

 

Taking the original un-nerfed drop rate as a starting point, something along the lines of:

Halve the Cert drop rate

Leave Green Jawa stuff as it was

Reduce Blue Jawa stuff by 1/3rd

Reduce purple Jawa stuff by 2/3rds

Leave Rep stuff as it was

 

Would be a fairly balanced compromise I think.

 

Additionally, we know there is already a mechanism in-game that can cause slot machines to overheat/explode, as could happen in the Nightlife event.

 

Simply by applying this to machines at a much higher chance of occurring would break up 'Click-a -thons'

 

Instead of an overheated slot machine automatically respawning as a useable machine (as happened in the Nightlife event) why not add a 'Slot Machine replacement Fuse' or some such to a Vendor on Fleet? And have it need to be used to re-enable the busted Slot Machine? This would completely wipe out all macro use or autoclick exploit opprtunities. Could even make it a 'unique' item, so only 1x Fuse can be carried in inventory, thus enforcing a trip to the repair shop!

 

Could just cost 1k from a Jawa, or even a few Basic comms from the Vendor in Trade skills area that sells ISO-5 and Schematics. Would give us something to spend our mountains of Basics on at least

 

If the replacement fuse idea is too complex, then maybe make the automatic respawn timer variable or something, though I'm not sure how effective this would be in combatting 'auto-clickers'.

 

Just my thoughts, would really hate to see slot machines disappear without trace.

[OddballEasyEight]

I agree completely, it would be a shame to kill off the slot machine concept entirely. I think it has the potential to be a useful and fun addition to the game.

 

Taking the original un-nerfed drop rate as a starting point, something along the lines of:

Halve the Cert drop rate

Leave Green Jawa stuff as it was

Reduce Blue Jawa stuff by 1/3rd

Reduce purple Jawa stuff by 2/3rds

Leave Rep stuff as it was

 

Would be a fairly balanced compromise I think.

 

Additionally, we know there is already a mechanism in-game that can cause slot machines to overheat/explode, as could happen in the Nightlife event.

 

Simply by applying this to machines at a much higher chance of occurring would break up 'Click-a -thons'

 

Instead of an overheated slot machine automatically respawning as a useable machine (as happened in the Nightlife event) why not add a 'Slot Machine replacement Fuse' or some such to a Vendor on Fleet? And have it need to be used to re-enable the busted Slot Machine? This would completely wipe out all macro use or autoclick exploit opprtunities. Could even make it a 'unique' item, so only 1x Fuse can be carried in inventory, thus enforcing a trip to the repair shop!

 

Could just cost 1k from a Jawa, or even a few Basic comms from the Vendor in Trade skills area that sells ISO-5 and Schematics. Would give us something to spend our mountains of Basics on at least

 

If the replacement fuse idea is too complex, then maybe make the automatic respawn timer variable or something, though I'm not sure how effective this would be in combatting 'auto-clickers'.

 

Just my thoughts, would really hate to see slot machines disappear without trace.

 

They should be able to easily calculate an appropriate droprate based on the number of clicks per minute using 3 machines (which is a good amount of machines to use, since it lets you click once on each machine during one period of GCD so that when you click the first machine again, the GCD will be done).

Then just extrapolate how many purple mats per hour they want you to be able to access and so on and so forth.

I mean you can get a decent amount of purple mats if you have 22 characters each with one or two gathering skills that you focus on and send out companions hourly (that's 132 missions per hour with a roughly 20% crit rate, you'd get 26 missions that drop purples per hour with maby 2-4 purples per mission, giving an average of 78 purples per hour. Of course this would vary greatly, but I'm just talking averages).

Sure, not everyone has 22 characters with maxed out gathering skills, but plenty of people who have been here since start certainly do.

And I'm very sure that those who "corner" the market do.

Even with 11 characters (not that hard to get) you'd still be looking at around 30-40 purples per hour.

So let people click on the machine for an hour and get 20-30 purples.

That would still be lower than someone who "professionally" hunt for mats, but it would be good enough for a crafter to put some time in to get mats.

And if you only have one machine (which many seem to have), that would be around 10 mats per hour.

And with an increased cost that would be a viable alternative to running missions, but more expensive. But still less expensive than buying off the GTN, yet more time-consuming.

 

So a decent middleway.

[beasthunt]

One of my friends is retired and sort of on the rich side. He's been paying for 4 subscriptions, and regularly buys about $1,000 worth of cartel coins a month. He's spent over $12,000 on SWTOR in the last couple of years

 

You know what one item made him the happiest in all of his play time? The slot machine; he ended up buying 4 of them and was considering buying a few dozen more hypercrates to fill a stronghold with 50 of them

 

When they got nerfed:

1) he cancelled 3 of his 4 subscriptions

2) he's no longer buying hypercrates

3) he's already contacted his lawyer and his credit card company, he wants a refund for being defrauded by deceptive business tactics

 

He will probably cancel his 4th account soon if the slots are not at least buffed a little

 

I'm aware of dozens of other people that have cancelled in the last week, most can give you a list of complaints but the handling of the slot machines seems to be the breaking point for many of them

 

In many ways the slot machine fiasco is just proof of the incompetence level of the people who work on this game.

 

It came out too good, it got nerfed into uselessness. And now they aren't even going to make an attempt to find a happy medium ?

 

It's like they are only capable of knee jerk reactions with no logical thinking or testing in between. All we are getting is extremes. First its too good, then its worthless, and now they wont fix it? ever? or even talk about fixing it?

 

Even diehard bioware fan boys are going to get tired of being punched in the face and ignored after a while

 

I'm with your friend. I'm not rich, but I did share his enjoyment over the slots. They cost me 4 million credits to get 2 of them and that was on the cheaper side. They scammed people. They released a product that brought them enjoyment, people spend many of dollars and credits to get them and then once sales slowed down they made them worthless.

 

I also cancelled my account. Between this absolute murder of the slots, them completely making 80% of ops worthless to run, what else is in this game other than sticking around to see what new cartel pack they come up with. Cancelled subs is all these people see. But, they really don't want subs. They want people to just buy cartel items. Subs cost them money. It's EA at it's finest.

Edited January 24, 2015 by beasthunt

[branmakmuffin]

Look, we all know that the original drop rates for the slot machine were wrong.

The chance of getting a purple jawa scraw was exactly the same as getting a blue or green one.

And it was way too high in general.

 

But the nerf was a knee-jerk reaction to the outcry on the forums.

 

Now the machine is essentially useless to many people.

People who payed alot of money (real or otherwise) to get it.

 

That has created alot of ill-will towards bioware.

 

If they adjusted the drop rates one more time to more reasonable rates that still don't compete with crew missions, but are at least somewhat useful, it would go a long way towards fixing some of the ill-will.

 

I'm not talking about raising the drop rates to anything significant, but right now, it's massively more expensive to get ANY mats from the machine than it is to buy them at already inflated prices on the GTN.

So there really is no point to using the machine.

Well, it's all be said before many times, but this is a nice summing up.

[Darkwords]

They already stated that they are NOT redoing the slot so stop wasting internet space. I just bought a different game that will be here in a few days (Not any game by Bio/Ea) and am watching what Biofail does very closely untill then

 

PS: No more CC purchases over my allotment...ever!

Edited January 24, 2015 by Darkwords

[Heat-Wave]

They already stated that they are NOT redoing the slot so stop wasting internet space. I just bought a different game that will be here in a few days (Not any game by Bio/Ea) and am watching what Biofail does very closely untill then

 

PS: No more CC purchases over my allotment...ever!

 

It isn't a waste of space if they end up changing their minds.

 

Not gonna happen you say? Check back in a week, if the forums still look like this, you never can say...

[branmakmuffin]

They already stated that they are NOT redoing the slot so stop wasting internet space.

No one's forcing you to read the slot machine threads. Stop wasting internet space telling others to stop wasting internet space.

[Staavis_SC]

I'm with your friend. I'm not rich, but I did share his enjoyment over the slots. They cost me 4 million credits to get 2 of them and that was on the cheaper side. They scammed people. They released a product that brought them enjoyment, people spend many of dollars and credits to get them and then once sales slowed down they made them worthless.

 

I also cancelled my account. Between this absolute murder of the slots, them completely making 80% of ops worthless to run, what else is in this game other than sticking around to see what new cartel pack they come up with. Cancelled subs is all these people see. But, they really don't want subs. They want people to just buy cartel items. Subs cost them money. It's EA at it's finest.

 

I look at this as a matter of trust.

 

I no longer trust Bioware. I dont trust that any purchase I make won't be changed the next day, or next week or next month. Who is to say if I buy something from their cash shop, like an armor set, they won't come here to the forums the next day and say "we heard the 3 people screaming for changes, and so in the next patch, we'll be adding fluffy angel wings and a pink polka dot bikini to (insert name) armor set."

 

Since I can't trust them, since they can't and won't guarantee that what they sell won't be changed on a whim, I simply cant bring myself to give them money on a chance that what I get will remain as I bought it.

[BuriDogshin]

Oh what...what .... who died??????.....oh nvm it's the bloody Slot machines again.....

Give it a rest people because you are ridiculing yourself with each new slot machines post...

 

Thank you for bumping the thread, it almost fell off the front page.

[BuriDogshin]

They should be able to easily calculate an appropriate droprate based on the number of clicks per minute using 3 machines (which is a good amount of machines to use, since it lets you click once on each machine during one period of GCD so that when you click the first machine again, the GCD will be done).

Then just extrapolate how many purple mats per hour they want you to be able to access and so on and so forth.

I mean you can get a decent amount of purple mats if you have 22 characters each with one or two gathering skills that you focus on and send out companions hourly (that's 132 missions per hour with a roughly 20% crit rate, you'd get 26 missions that drop purples per hour with maby 2-4 purples per mission, giving an average of 78 purples per hour. Of course this would vary greatly, but I'm just talking averages).

Sure, not everyone has 22 characters with maxed out gathering skills, but plenty of people who have been here since start certainly do.

And I'm very sure that those who "corner" the market do.

Even with 11 characters (not that hard to get) you'd still be looking at around 30-40 purples per hour.

So let people click on the machine for an hour and get 20-30 purples.

That would still be lower than someone who "professionally" hunt for mats, but it would be good enough for a crafter to put some time in to get mats.

And if you only have one machine (which many seem to have), that would be around 10 mats per hour.

And with an increased cost that would be a viable alternative to running missions, but more expensive. But still less expensive than buying off the GTN, yet more time-consuming.

 

So a decent middleway.

For gods sake man use a little more whitespace. Seriously, it's very important to readability.

[Reno_Tarshil]

For gods sake man use a little more whitespace. Seriously, it's very important to readability.

 

I read it just fine.

[bradleyahoult]

Keep the slots petition going until BW answer everyone properly about destroying completely a paid for item.

[Djiini]

In their position I'd leave it how it is, because they changed it at all due to player feedback and it just led to an even worse whinefest. Why bother?

[RahaylaCora]

I got to the conclusion that they put live a testing Slot Machine, with higher rates to check results faster and easily. Rates were balanced overall, so it was added to the pack without the needed rate adjustment (maybe something like the Nightlife Event machines).

 

Once the storm arrived to the forums about how awesome was the Slot Machine they had to accept their mistake (internally), but with measured words told us that the machine would be adjusted (Eric only mentioned the Jawa Junk because the debate was focused mainly on that token).

 

After checking the thousands and thousands of tokens dropped they realized that the "market" was over a saturation point, so instead of making the right adjustment they decided to stop the machine, so stocked materials will have weeks to flow and disappear. And also they decide to not say a word admiting the new situation.

 

They think that silence help them, but they are seeding frustration. At least, they could come and say "working as intended", and everybody knows how to face their relationship to this company and its game. And its future words.

[RocketRabbit]

I no longer trust Bioware. I dont trust that any purchase I make won't be changed the next day, or next week or next month. Who is to say if I buy something from their cash shop, like an armor set, they won't come here to the forums the next day and say "we heard the 3 people screaming for changes, and so in the next patch, we'll be adding fluffy angel wings and a pink polka dot bikini to (insert name) armor set."

 

Comically true. Answer up, Bioware. Subs on the line.

[Arkerus]

Even as a "glorious defender" of Bioware, I can't defend this.

 

They released a machine that dropped materials (essentially) like rain from the sky. Issue #1.

 

They make a small note about a possible minor adjustment and then wreck the original item almost completely negating the in game or real world value that was spent on it. Issue #2.

 

They let the issue go without an official statement and instead the statement has to leak from the Cantina tour. Even worse, there will be no more adjustments to bring it back in line with its value. Issue #3.

 

This whole thing has been a blunder since it started.

 

Time to move on. The damage is done and I don't think there is any more we can do.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Arkerus

[LordArtemis]

Even as a "glorious defender" of Bioware, I can't defend this.

 

They released a machine that dropped materials (essentially) like rain from the sky. Issue #1.

 

They make a small note about a possible minor adjustment and then wreck the original item almost completely negating the in game or real world value that was spent on it. Issue #2.

 

They let the issue go without an official statement and instead the statement has to leak from the Cantina tour. Even worse, there will be no more adjustments to bring it back in line with its value. Issue #3.

 

This whole thing has been a blunder since it started.

 

Time to move on. The damage is done and I don't think there is any more we can do.

 

I agree with everything here except for the last part.

 

The same was said about ability repurchase, and eventually folks convinced Bioware to use their head and make a correction....grant it they completely removed training costs, a bit of overkill, but a positive change IMO none the less.

 

I for one am going to continue to hold their feet to the fire until either they smarten up or my ability to post runs out.

[Layadissa]

I have but one thing to say

and I hope this link works.

[Heat-Wave]

In their position I'd leave it how it is, because they changed it at all due to player feedback and it just led to an even worse whinefest. Why bother?

 

Would you be prepared to accept the forums as they stand, for the foreseeable future?

 

Several people said, "give it two days, everyone will have forgotten about it".

 

Well, it has been 5 days... and I don't see a lot of let up...

 

It is the principle of the matter, Bioware did wrong and needs to make it right, it is as simple as that...

 

---

 

Edit: of course, they could try SOE's trick with NGE and start deleting threads and banning posters... look how well THAT went...

Edited January 25, 2015 by Heat-Wave

[Dukarchon]

I want to go on record I don't have tons of cash on my toons and do not buy cartel coins just dealing with what I get per month being a subscriber. Now I bought a slot machine before they hit rock bottom prior to the patch and received items even if I wasn't in the perfect point of the machine but I did receive more than just a cartel coin. Now All I've gotten is cartel coins out of perfect or if I get the perfect I get one of the 3 reputation items. Seems a bit odd to get a green rep token for a perfect roll on the slot machine. And not get anything but a cartel coin(spin again) outside the perfect. Anyone else have info on where they are getting items on the spin?