OddballEasyEight Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Look, we all know that the original drop rates for the slot machine were wrong. The chance of getting a purple jawa scraw was exactly the same as getting a blue or green one. And it was way too high in general. But the nerf was a knee-jerk reaction to the outcry on the forums. Now the machine is essentially useless to many people. People who payed alot of money (real or otherwise) to get it. That has created alot of ill-will towards bioware. If they adjusted the drop rates one more time to more reasonable rates that still don't compete with crew missions, but are at least somewhat useful, it would go a long way towards fixing some of the ill-will. I'm not talking about raising the drop rates to anything significant, but right now, it's massively more expensive to get ANY mats from the machine than it is to buy them at already inflated prices on the GTN. So there really is no point to using the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyde Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 If they adjusted the drop rates one more time to more reasonable rates that still don't compete with crew missions, but are at least somewhat useful, it would go a long way towards fixing some of the ill-will. If the viability of crew missions is their main concern and the reason they did what they did, then remove the jawa stuff from the machine entirely and up the droprates on the rest again, maybe even add some unique items to the loottable, etc. But somehow bring back a degree of either utility or fun to putting a stack of 75k worth of coins in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 They said at the cantina they have no plans to change the SM again. Stop clinging to a lost hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyde Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 They said at the cantina they have no plans to change the SM again. Stop clinging to a lost hope. Hey, I have even less days than you before I turn Preferred! Lemme continue to express my discontent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staavis_SC Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Leaving the over-nerf in place, and keeping silent about it...is a horrendously bad move by Bioware. If this slot machine didn't involve real money, nobody would care in the least. However, the fact of the matter is the slot machine DOES involve real money, and when they make a move like this, people that spend on these types of items don't tend to forget that. Maybe they wont see a sudden drop in profits, but if they let the nerf stand and continue to ignore the backlash, it will have a chilling effect on their sales of Cartel Packs and Hypercrates going forward. It's a matter of human nature. Subconsciously when people get swindled, or taken, they become very reluctant to take chances in the future. That bad experience becomes ingrained in their future spending habits. No one wants to buy something, only to risk it failing or breaking, or being pure junk after they buy it. I know for myself, this will definitely curb my purchase of Cartel Packs and Hypercrates. I'll still buy unlocks, or cosmetic items and such, as needed, but if they don't make this right, there won't be any more packs for me. I simply won't risk any future pack item I get being fundamentally changed after I get it. Bioware would do well to reconsider their approach on this. From a business perspective, this is a REALLY bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Leaving the over-nerf in place, and keeping silent about it...is a horrendously bad move by Bioware.. I agree, they should of been forthcoming with the info. but if they let the nerf stand and continue to ignore the backlash, it will have a chilling effect on their sales of Cartel Packs and Hypercrates going forward. This is laughable, once the next lot of shineys come out, people will be all over them, and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staavis_SC Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 This is laughable, once the next lot of shineys come out, people will be all over them, and you know it. I'm not so sure about that. I can't speak for everyone else, but I know I won't be buying anymore packs until they make things right. There is only so much people will put up with before they say enough is enough. Oh, there will be people still buying, because they are addicted, or because it's the fastest way to in-game credits. But I would contend that I likely won't be the only one to close down the wallet and make a decision to not support these packs because of the colossal mistakes made with this particular issue. If I'm the only one, then so be it. If I'm not, then at least I'll feel a bit vindicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunovega Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I agree, they should of been forthcoming with the info. This is laughable, once the next lot of shineys come out, people will be all over them, and you know it. One of my friends is retired and sort of on the rich side. He's been paying for 4 subscriptions, and regularly buys about $1,000 worth of cartel coins a month. He's spent over $12,000 on SWTOR in the last couple of years You know what one item made him the happiest in all of his play time? The slot machine; he ended up buying 4 of them and was considering buying a few dozen more hypercrates to fill a stronghold with 50 of them When they got nerfed: 1) he cancelled 3 of his 4 subscriptions 2) he's no longer buying hypercrates 3) he's already contacted his lawyer and his credit card company, he wants a refund for being defrauded by deceptive business tactics He will probably cancel his 4th account soon if the slots are not at least buffed a little I'm aware of dozens of other people that have cancelled in the last week, most can give you a list of complaints but the handling of the slot machines seems to be the breaking point for many of them In many ways the slot machine fiasco is just proof of the incompetence level of the people who work on this game. It came out too good, it got nerfed into uselessness. And now they aren't even going to make an attempt to find a happy medium ? It's like they are only capable of knee jerk reactions with no logical thinking or testing in between. All we are getting is extremes. First its too good, then its worthless, and now they wont fix it? ever? or even talk about fixing it? Even diehard bioware fan boys are going to get tired of being punched in the face and ignored after a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I'm not so sure about that. I can't speak for everyone else, but I know I won't be buying anymore packs until they make things right. There is only so much people will put up with before they say enough is enough. Oh, there will be people still buying, because they are addicted, or because it's the fastest way to in-game credits. But I would contend that I likely won't be the only one to close down the wallet and make a decision to not support these packs because of the colossal mistakes made with this particular issue. If I'm the only one, then so be it. If I'm not, then at least I'll feel a bit vindicated. Oh but apparantly many many many people made millions off the machine. So they won't have to buy a hypercrate to get the shinies... They'll just buy them off the GTN (and yes, that will impact sales if they would normally buy a hypercrate to get it... It will also impact the GTN prices of the items in the next pack, but that won't matter to BW, they'll only notice the drop in sales of hypercrates.) Edited January 24, 2015 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankiel Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'll say this only once. They should pick the middle road and adjust the drop rates to be a bit more appealing. At the moment there is no reason to clickfest on that machine. Thank you, that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'll say this only once. They should pick the middle road and adjust the drop rates to be a bit more appealing. At the moment there is no reason to clickfest on that machine. Thank you, that is all. Say that again, I dare you! But yeah, I agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'll say this only once. They should pick the middle road and adjust the drop rates to be a bit more appealing. At the moment there is no reason to clickfest on that machine. Thank you, that is all. ^ This... is the truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'm disappointed at the lack of communication over this issue. The limited 'gold' text we've had on the subject probably influenced the rapid uptake of Slot machines in the first place. Paraphrasing... using machines not an exploit... change to drop rate incoming. For those that have spent a lot of time around MMOs this was easy interpret. The subsequent nerf was over the top. If they have used internal metrics it's probably heavily influenced by those that can spend hour upon hour feeding the slot machines tokens. I think the developers need to seriously reconsider altering the drop rates, but more importantly limiting the amount of time that can be spent feeding slot-chips into the slot machines. We already have limits on repeatable missions, they are called dailies and weeklies for a reason. There are weekly lockouts on Operations. There are limits to the number of coms you can earn in a week or store. I would suggest a limit across a players legacy. Say 200 slot-chips per day so that those with 22 characters per server can't abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastiaanZ Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 As long as we keep flooding the forum, they will have to. They need to keep the community happy. And the community is unhappy. Its counterproductive what they did. The number of people unhappy now far outweighs and outnumbers the number of people that were whining about the slot machines before. I expected a nerf, but this was a dick move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 One of my friends is retired and sort of on the rich side. He's been paying for 4 subscriptions, and regularly buys about $1,000 worth of cartel coins a month. He's spent over $12,000 on SWTOR in the last couple of years You know what one item made him the happiest in all of his play time? The slot machine; he ended up buying 4 of them and was considering buying a few dozen more hypercrates to fill a stronghold with 50 of them When they got nerfed: 1) he cancelled 3 of his 4 subscriptions 2) he's no longer buying hypercrates 3) he's already contacted his lawyer and his credit card company, he wants a refund for being defrauded by deceptive business tactics Your friend is a hero. If BioWare won't listen to subscribers, maybe they will listen to a subscriber's attorney. Thanks for letting us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think they need to return the cert drop rate to 2%. IMO if they have any hope of finding any way to salvage this debacle that is the least they would have to do. I would also recommend they quickly return the 12XP event. Turning that on would make quite a few folks forgiving and happy in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarian Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Look, we all know that the original drop rates for the slot machine were wrong. My main thing is the certificates. I don't know if I'd say the original drop rate was wrong, but I will say that it could have been a bit lower and I still would have played. If they'd made it so it took twice as many plays (on average) to get one...I would have been OK with that. Three times as many...well...OK. Four times as many...that's starting to push it, but I could see that. But from what I hear, they didn't just go further than that - they went way, WAY further than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I would also recommend they quickly return the 12XP event. Turning that on would make quite a few folks forgiving and happy in my view. You had to give them money to participate in the last 12x XP event. Odds are you'll have to give them money to participate in the next one. I think it likely that every week or two, somewhere at BioWare a group of managers get together to discuss one simple question: "How do we most effectively monetize the loyalty of the SWTOR play base this quarter?" It's nothing personal, it's just business. Edited January 24, 2015 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) You had to give them money to participate in the last 12x XP event. Odds are you'll have to give them money to participate in the next one. I think it likely that every week or two, somewhere at BioWare a group of managers get together to discuss one simple question: "How do can we most effectively monetize the loyalty of the SWTOR play base this quarter?" It's nothing personal, it's just business. Actually I would speculate this is the most common question...... Ok, we screwed this up pretty bad....so anyone have suggestions on how we can make this worse? I know, thats silly, but sometimes I wonder. Edited January 24, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loversoftwileks Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 bioware needs to buff the jawa junk add Kingpin rancor add the xp buff's add retired armor sets (Tionese, culomi rakata) without stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 This is laughable, once the next lot of shineys come out, people will be all over them, and you know it. If they leave the CSM nerf as it stands, they'll lose me as a customer who buys extra CC once in a while so I can max reputation. I'll just stick to in-game credits or my sub stipend (which I prefer to use for legacy unlocks anyway). So it will have an effect on CM sales, even if only a minor one. In business those small percentages count, they'll have targets they want to hit and budgets they'll need to stick to. How BioWare choose to proceed is entirely up to them and I'm not naive enough to assume they'll go down the road of correcting their mistakes. BioWare come across as very reactive to problems, and not pro-active in ensuring they don't occur in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbonetx Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I agree, they should of been forthcoming with the info. Good luck with that at this point, so many people went into bait and switch, scam, refund, and lawyer I can almost guarantee you that bioware has their legal team called in. Most companies I have worked for will usually lawyer under just to be safe even if they are within their rights. The fact that they haven't addressed it post-nerf here or on customer service in any way says to me that they won't make a post before it has been screened and vetted by at least a few of their legal and possibly some higher ups. At this point I have hit unsub and am on the side of unnerf but I am not gonna hold my breath. I just check back to see where it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 At least the original drop rates had a effect of making purple mats more affordable on GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) From my limited research, you lose about 20-25k a stack for playing the machine and out of 500 chips I got no Jawa junk at all (considering cartel certificates worth about 50k). Yes I agree they should probably make the coins about 1000 creds and up the drop rates of mats considerably, while dropping the rates of the rep items. You should still lose money on them though, they are slot machines after all... Edited January 24, 2015 by Gokkus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 At least the original drop rates had a effect of making purple mats more affordable on GTN. Which were largely bought up by those having made millions on purple mats before the machine and are now safely stored away waiting for the prices to return. At least according to those who make a living (read: fortune) off selling rare mats on the GTN in my guild. They had enough millions saved away to buy up bulk quantities of the low-price mats once they found out there would be a nerf. Now they're just waiting for the prices to go up so they can tenfold their profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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