Mr. Eric Musco, What is the deal?

[LordArtemis]

AKA I don't want to talk about facts TDMAHA

 

You do not define what I mean Tdmaha.

 

It has a meaning. You know what that meaning is.

[tdmaha]

You do not define what I mean Tdmaha.

 

It has a meaning. You know what that meaning is.

 

Yeah it means you don't want to talk about facts that interfere with your agenda it's pretty clear.

[LordArtemis]

Yeah it means you don't want to talk about facts that interfere with your agenda it's pretty clear.

 

Actually it is very clear it means something else entirely....and you already know what that is

 

And I really REALLY mean it Tdmaha, truly. I can also assure you I am not the only one that thinks so.

 

But then you already know that as well, don't you.

Edited January 22, 2015 by LordArtemis

[tdmaha]

Actually it is very clear it means something else entirely....and you already know what that is

 

And I really REALLY mean it Tdmaha, truly. I can also assure you I am not the only one that thinks so.

 

But then you already know that as well, don't you.

 

Yep I know when people have agendas like you and others they will ignore or try to use comments like "Shenangians " to skip talking about those facts.

 

Your agenda is very clear in this thread. You see when a poster who doesn't agree with you makes comments you feel are against the rules you go on one of your long winded rants about how you can do better and some other garbage, but when a poster clearly breaks the rules (blue post above) Lord Art is nowhere to be seen. Why? Because it's supports his agenda.

 

You don't fool anyone here Art. You do seem to be In an extra foul mood today? I wonder why that is your hand a little red from getting slapped maybe?

[LordArtemis]

Yep I know when people have agendas like you and others they will ignore or try to use comments like "Shenangians " to skip talking about those facts.

 

Your agenda is very clear in this thread. You see when a poster who doesn't agree with you makes comments you feel are against the rules you go on one of your long winded rants about how you can do better and some other garbage, but when a poster clearly breaks the rules (blue post above) Lord Art is nowhere to be seen. Why? Because it's supports his agenda.

 

You don't fool anyone here Art. You do seem to be In an extra foul mood today? I wonder why that is your hand a little red from getting slapped maybe?

 

I already told you....

[Draqsko]

I actually think i might get a machine now, when the prices drop a bit more. I was never interested in the CM reputation because i think it is rip-off. but now i can get every reputation with only a few credits.

 

It's only Contraband Resale Corp rep on the machine. Each machine has its own rep track for embargoed packs. So yeah, you could max your rep on embargoed packs with it but honestly, you are better off waiting til summer and getting the limited time release of embargoed packs to finish up the rep track. You at least can sell the items in the pack for a decent amount, and get more of your credits back than with the slot machine.

 

Unless the machines are selling for 100k on your server, they aren't worth getting even for the rep because you'd have to buy a machine for each rep track as they are released.

[tdmaha]

I already told you....

 

 

AKA more facts TDMAHA just threw down I can't counter...

Edited January 22, 2015 by tdmaha

[darthjamez]

To recap...

Slot machines come out. poeple spend $100s buying hypercrates...

BW dude " dude, people are mad and stuff about the slot machines hurting the game economy."

BW boss " What does that even mean? Alright , get Nerfbat Dave to tweek it a little."

BW dude " yo Dave , we need you to lower the slot machine payout a little bit."

Nerfbat -Dave

And now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dammit dave.....

Edited January 22, 2015 by darthjamez

[Neglience]

To recap...

Slot machines come out. poeple spend $100s buying hypercrates...

BW dude " dude, people are mad and stuff about the slot machines hurting the game economy."

BW boss " What does that even mean? Alright i'll get Over-reactive Dave to tweek it a little."

BW dude " yo Dave , we need you to lower the slot machine payout a little bit."

Over-reactive -Dave

And now

 

 

 

Dammit dave.....

 

They did buy packs with the credits, as they always do. They did not buy the Machine. F2P players can not post in this forum, so it are actually subs who were concerned about the machine.

 

A little bit of nerf would not be enough. If you are seriously interested in this and not just QQ go and gather some information how much crafting materials could be created with those machines in HOURS.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience

[Draqsko]

AKA I don't want to talk about facts TDMAHA

 

The only person that can't deal with facts is you.

 

Fact is:

This nerf fails the reasonable person test, heck this nerf even fails to lure compulsive gamblers to gamble.

 

Vegas slots keep people playing by having an 80-90% payout. That means for every dollar you put in, on average you'll get back 80-90 cents. Anything less will not keep people in the seats because there is not enough reward. You would notice if the payout dropped to 70% in a casino slot, you'd stop playing that machine and go to another one. And if every machine was like that, you'd stop going to that casino and they would be out of business.

 

They went from a slot machine with 120% payout, to a slot machine with 48% payout, and you can't see why people are upset? The reasonable expectation of the nerf would be to drop the payout down to 80%, but they went twice as far as was needed and if you can't see WHY people are upset about that fact after making it seem like this is what BW wanted before the weekend then..

 

Let me put it another way...

 

Everyone agrees powertech and vanguard DPS are bit overpowered right now right? Kinda like how overpowered those slot machine are. Well imagine when 3.1 rolls out they nerf all PT and VG damage by 99% because they are slightly overpowered today. How would you feel as a player of that class? Would you feel like your class got nerfed into oblivion? What if they did that after saying PT/VG is fine except we might need to tweak shoulder cannon a little, and then 5 days later reduce ALL your damage by 99%?

 

Because that is the magnitude of this nerf on the slot machine.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Draqsko

[Neglience]

 

They went from a slot machine with 120% payout, to a slot machine with 48% payout, and you can't see why people are upset? The reasonable expectation of the nerf would be to drop the payout down to 80%, but they went twice as far as was needed and if you can't see WHY people are upset about that fact after making it seem like this is what BW wanted before the weekend then..

 

 

The payout of the old machine was far more then 120%. Even if the payout is set to 90% the QQ will go on.

[tdmaha]

The only person that can't deal with facts is you.

 

Fact is:

This nerf fails the reasonable person test, heck this nerf even fails to lure compulsive gamblers to gamble.

 

Vegas slots keep people playing by having an 80-90% payout. That means for every dollar you put in, on average you'll get back 80-90 cents. Anything less will not keep people in the seats because there is not enough reward. You would notice if the payout dropped to 70% in a casino slot, you'd stop playing that machine and go to another one. And if every machine was like that, you'd stop going to that casino and they would be out of business.

 

They went from a slot machine with 120% payout, to a slot machine with 48% payout, and you can't see why people are upset? The reasonable expectation of the nerf would be to drop the payout down to 80%, but they went twice as far as was needed and if you can't see WHY people are upset about that fact after making it seem like this is what BW wanted before the weekend then..

 

Let me put it another way...

 

Everyone agrees powertech and vanguard DPS are bit overpowered right now right? Kinda like how overpowered those slot machine are. Well imagine when 3.1 rolls out they nerf all PT and VG damage by 99% because they are slightly overpowered today. How would you feel as a player of that class? Would you feel like your class got nerfed into oblivion? What if they did that after saying PT/VG is fine except we might need to tweak shoulder cannon a little, and then 5 days later reduce ALL your damage by 99%?

 

Because that is the magnitude of this nerf on the slot machine.

 

I have never stated if I feel they nerf is good or bad. Personally id rather be playing the game than sitting in my stronghold clicking on a slot. Sure before I log off I'll spend a few minutes.

 

My entire point which is a FACT that these changes are because of people QQing on the forums about how they were. There are even some who were QQing to change them that are now QQing about the changes. And all these other people were nowhere to be seen during the uproar about the slots last week (I was here telling them last week what will happen).

 

Actions have consequences and these changes are the consequences of the QQing last week.

 

So what FACTS don't i want to deal in?

 

And for fun it's actually about 95% payout but generates 60-65% of their profit.

 

 

http://www.vegastripping.com/playersclub/slots.php

[Ajuma]

While i agree that the machine and the communication about it was a great mistake, its pretty clear what happend. they saw the numbers and felt the need to change it.

 

Nope the ONLY thing it had to do with is the constant cry babies on this server that get their way every single time they don't like something.

[Excise]

Not sure I understand the OP's point. Eric's post flat out says that changes are incoming.

[krisknife]

Not sure I understand the OP's point. Eric's post flat out says that changes are incoming.

 

the rage comes from the changes killing a machine that BW announced was working as intended with the loom of future JJ drops being possibly nerfed, which most agreed with btw. What they did was completely change everything and made it into a literal credit sink with no worthwhile rewards. How can you not understand that is wrong? And people will be rightfully upset?

[ItachiZaku]

What is the deal? 5 days ago you wrote this. That was Friday evening so not quite 5 days. Then the weekend. Then Monday you had your developers change this. What the heck changed in your mind over the weekend that caused you to "FIX" the slot machines?

 

You all did this in one day after telling us that everything was fine. Telling the community something like you did means we take it as truth. It wasn't a rumor someone posted. It wasn't something from a different website being told by someone who read it. It was from you. This is an example of why your company has such poor customer relations and support.

 

I'm not sure how old you are, but it clearly states they will look into it and make changes accordingly. They did. Anyone complaining about it, really need to check themselves at the door.

[LordArtemis]

The only person that can't deal with facts is you.

 

Fact is:

This nerf fails the reasonable person test, heck this nerf even fails to lure compulsive gamblers to gamble.

 

Vegas slots keep people playing by having an 80-90% payout. That means for every dollar you put in, on average you'll get back 80-90 cents. Anything less will not keep people in the seats because there is not enough reward. You would notice if the payout dropped to 70% in a casino slot, you'd stop playing that machine and go to another one. And if every machine was like that, you'd stop going to that casino and they would be out of business.

 

They went from a slot machine with 120% payout, to a slot machine with 48% payout, and you can't see why people are upset? The reasonable expectation of the nerf would be to drop the payout down to 80%, but they went twice as far as was needed and if you can't see WHY people are upset about that fact after making it seem like this is what BW wanted before the weekend then..

 

Let me put it another way...

 

Everyone agrees powertech and vanguard DPS are bit overpowered right now right? Kinda like how overpowered those slot machine are. Well imagine when 3.1 rolls out they nerf all PT and VG damage by 99% because they are slightly overpowered today. How would you feel as a player of that class? Would you feel like your class got nerfed into oblivion? What if they did that after saying PT/VG is fine except we might need to tweak shoulder cannon a little, and then 5 days later reduce ALL your damage by 99%?

 

Because that is the magnitude of this nerf on the slot machine.

 

Actually, in all fairness that comment was directed at me, not the topic in general. I believe Tdmaha has not indicated support or not for the current setup or the former.

 

I might be mistaken.

[Kalarie]

Not sure I understand the OP's point. Eric's post flat out says that changes are incoming.

 

You still don't get it? Eric said that changes might come to the JJ drop rate. He also said everything was working correctly and encouraged people to use the machines by confirming that it's not an exploit. No mention of changes coming to the drop rates or fail chance for all of the other items. That is what has people so upset. If they had only changed the purple mats a lot of people that are complaining wouldn't be.

[tdmaha]

You still don't get it? Eric said that changes might come to the JJ drop rate. He also said everything was working correctly and encouraged people to use the machines by confirming that it's not an exploit. No mention of changes coming to the drop rates or fail chance for all of the other items. That is what has people so upset. If they had only changed the purple mats a lot of people that are complaining wouldn't be.

 

Haha you new to these forums? People would still be QQing about or find something to QQ about, it's what they do.

 

He also said we heard their "complaints" which would mean more than one which would lead most to believe more than just jj was on the chopping block. Now if you are looking for something to QQ about sure you may try pick one what works best for your agenda.

[znihilist]

Not sure I understand the OP's point. Eric's post flat out says that changes are incoming.

 

Quoting myself:

 

There is a huge disconnect between: This is not performing to our expectations, let's adjust it! And Let's nuke it from orbit with a thermonuclear weapon after said it was working as intended.

 

The previous yellow post did exactly state that it is working as intended, and it is not an exploit. The post was very clear that whatever was being generated from the machine was okay. Now if a week later they were unhappy (which is within their rights) with the results and wish to nerf it then so be it, but to go from 12.5% to 0.1% for purple jawa junk (which is two orders of magnitude of difference) means something is very wrong with whatever they do internally.

 

The item can't be intended and okay but at the same item have its jawa returns 100X larger than what BW wants it to be. Either it is broken or it is intended, it can' be both. The way the original post was worded would have you believe that the adjustments were not of huge magnitude. This lead to a lot of people dumping a lot of money to get the machine, and whether their feelings are right or wrong, these people feel cheated.

 

So for me at least, the problem is the incompetence they are showing with their internal process.

[Draqsko]

I'm not sure how old you are, but it clearly states they will look into it and make changes accordingly. They did. Anyone complaining about it, really need to check themselves at the door.

 

So you are saying it's ok for Bioware to basically have an item drive pack sales over the weekend, and then effectively remove said item after the weekend, and those sales, have past?

[jojobanutz]

Quoting myself:

 

 

 

The item can't be intended and okay but at the same item have its jawa returns 100X larger than what BW wants it to be. Either it is broken or it is intended, it can' be both. The way the original post was worded would have you believe that the adjustments were not of huge magnitude. This lead to a lot of people dumping a lot of money to get the machine, and whether their feelings are right or wrong, these people feel cheated.

 

So for me at least, the problem is the incompetence they are showing with their internal process.

znihilist sets out the problem perfectly in my opinion

 

There's no reason to think that Eric's post is anything but honest according to the information he was given by the developers. For all we know he's not exactly happy about all this himself.

 

The real problem is the way the developers veer from one crazy extreme to the other, without seeming able to find a relatively balanced middle way. This being the case it's hardly surprising that they aren't capable of communicating thier aims clearly,

 

What staggers me most, is the way Bio have completely wrecked something that could have been a great fun mini-game. It totally boggles my mind!

[OddballEasyEight]

The item can't be intended and okay but at the same item have its jawa returns 100X larger than what BW wants it to be. Either it is broken or it is intended, it can' be both. The way the original post was worded would have you believe that the adjustments were not of huge magnitude. This lead to a lot of people dumping a lot of money to get the machine, and whether their feelings are right or wrong, these people feel cheated.

 

So for me at least, the problem is the incompetence they are showing with their internal process.

 

Perfectly put.

 

This is what most people are upset with. Not the fact that the drop rates have been lowered (we all expected that to happen), but that stating that there was nothing wrong with the machine and it was working as intended and they just needed to make a few adjustments, and then suddenly have its drop rates changed to a mere fraction of what they were before.

They didn't just adjust the drop rates. They changed the way the machine works entirely.

[Shwarzchild]

znihilist sets out the problem perfectly in my opinion

 

There's no reason to think that Eric's post is anything but honest according to the information he was given by the developers. For all we know he's not exactly happy about all this himself.

 

The real problem is the way the developers veer from one crazy extreme to the other, without seeming able to find a relatively balanced middle way. This being the case it's hardly surprising that they aren't capable of communicating thier aims clearly,

 

What staggers me most, is the way Bio have completely wrecked something that could have been a great fun mini-game. It totally boggles my mind!

 

Oh I would bet a ton of money that when the update to the machine hit his desk, his head also hit his desk. We have so many conspiracy theorists here on this forum, because so many of us believe that the world is out to get us apparently, that we tend to lose focus on the fact that Eric et al are real people, and they don't intend to do us harm, or do themselves harm, or make their working life any more difficult than it is. Eric passed along information that he thought was accurate. It's a shame that the information turned out to be a bit more detailed than what he was made aware of.

 

And your assertion that they haven't been able to adequately find a middle ground on very many things is so amazingly on point. So on point. Mind boggling absolutely.

 

I think from their point of view we're all a bunch of insane people. We find all the spilled milk we can no matter what. I'm guilty of it, we all are. We always try to ruin something great like the slot machine. In terms of the slot machine man there have been so many good ideas thrown around even though the arguing has really taken it's step to the higher levels. Those ideas were:

 

1) Take out the jawa items altogether, and add emotes, credit booms, decorations, and those data node cartel mission items. (This was personally my favorite suggestion. I would really like this, and am quite jealous I didn't think of it at all as I was crying about my new favorite toy losing it's shine)

2) Increase drop rates for the jawa items back to a reasonable level while simultaneously lowering the cost and time crafting missions take. (seems reasonable since through the fire and brimstone we all agreed that jawa item drop rates were too high)

3) Simply make the thing a weekly capped item. You get 300-400 spins a week total, max.

 

I thought all those things were really great ideas that would make the thing fun, useful, and worthwhile. But, instead we have what we have now because those great ideas get snuffed out by our insane yelling at each other which is all bioware sees. Rock and hard place for us as a community. It's self inflicted to a degree.

[Kalarie]

Oh I would bet a ton of money that when the update to the machine hit his desk, his head also hit his desk. We have so many conspiracy theorists here on this forum, because so many of us believe that the world is out to get us apparently, that we tend to lose focus on the fact that Eric et al are real people, and they don't intend to do us harm, or do themselves harm, or make their working life any more difficult than it is. Eric passed along information that he thought was accurate. It's a shame that the information turned out to be a bit more detailed than what he was made aware of.

 

And your assertion that they haven't been able to adequately find a middle ground on very many things is so amazingly on point. So on point. Mind boggling absolutely.

 

I think from their point of view we're all a bunch of insane people. We find all the spilled milk we can no matter what. I'm guilty of it, we all are. We always try to ruin something great like the slot machine. In terms of the slot machine man there have been so many good ideas thrown around even though the arguing has really taken it's step to the higher levels. Those ideas were:

 

1) Take out the jawa items altogether, and add emotes, credit booms, decorations, and those data node cartel mission items. (This was personally my favorite suggestion. I would really like this, and am quite jealous I didn't think of it at all as I was crying about my new favorite toy losing it's shine)

2) Increase drop rates for the jawa items back to a reasonable level while simultaneously lowering the cost and time crafting missions take. (seems reasonable since through the fire and brimstone we all agreed that jawa item drop rates were too high)

3) Simply make the thing a weekly capped item. You get 300-400 spins a week total, max.

 

I thought all those things were really great ideas that would make the thing fun, useful, and worthwhile. But, instead we have what we have now because those great ideas get snuffed out by our insane yelling at each other which is all bioware sees. Rock and hard place for us as a community. It's self inflicted to a degree.

 

Just want to say "Well put." I personally feel like if they are going to change an item so many people paid for, they should allow those people to reconsider the purchase (i.e. offer a refund), but all of your options are good stabs at a compromise that probably fits 90% of the player base.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Kalarie