RIP craft / economy

[wolfyde]

So, you wish to favour f2p and preferred not paying subscription fee instead of subscribers, furthermore, by ripping the latter from gaining credits to buy CM items for credit (whereas CM was created to get money from f2p and preferred), now you expect subscribers to even open their wallet and pay for Cartel Packs as well. So basicly subscribers should pay twice to keep the f2p/preferred entertained. You can't be serious.

 

CM was created to generate revenue from everyone. And the people spending the most on the CM are the ones with the most disposable income in the first place, who can also afford, and maintain, a subscription.

With the credit caps in place you practically need to be a subscriber to sell CM packs on the GTN.

 

The rest of the post is once again more unnecessary hyperbole and overreaction.

Once again; the game economy is not impacted by an increase in mats and the resulting lowering of prices.

Only profit margins are affected, and the greed of a select minority of players who were raking in ludicrous margins up until now.

Real crafters will still be crafting and selling, but at more reasonable prices, benefiting the playerbase as a whole.

[varietasplus]

The rest of the post is once again more unnecessary hyperbole and overreaction.

Once again; the game economy is not impacted by an increase in mats and the resulting lowering of prices.

Only profit margins are affected, and the greed of a select minority of players who were raking in ludicrous margins up until now.

Real crafters will still be crafting and selling, but at more reasonable prices, benefiting the playerbase as a whole.

 

You have just proven you have know idea about economy in general.

Supply, demand, resource cost, price, profit margin are ALL part of an economy, saying the increase of supply (therefore lowering total cost) has no effect on game economy is contradiction.

 

Supply is increasing dramatically day by day, whereas demand has been decreasing since the launch of the expansion. Prices have been adjusting week by week, for example a might hilt 36 sold initially for 350k, prior to slot machine it sold for 70k. Augmentation kit prices and augment prices were already cut to half/third. The system would have balanced out itself with time, as it did after patch 2.0.

 

The time required to run a crew mission and the crit chance of artifact mats were intentionally limited. With the infinite amount of mats acquired by bots from now on - as a standard economical rule for a competitive market without any restrictions/barriers - profit is heading towards zero.

 

On top of it, there is no such thing like "reasonable" price in economy. There is only supply and demand. If you have something special people want, it does not matter if it costs you 10k, some of them will be buying it for 100k, 200k or even 300k. Those who can afford it, are going to buy it at higher prices for time factor is more important for them, while others have to wait until prices drop. Simple as it is.

 

For a real life example, when a television with brand new technology is presented, it is extremely expensive and only a few can afford it. After a year, it drops a significant ammount of price, yet still expensive for most. After two years, more and more people can afford it, but you need to wait for years until it is affordable to most. Go to them and complain more reasonable prices would make a lot more customers happier.

 

To translate this example to ingame mechanisms, in the first weeks only a minority of players ran gathering missions to obtain rare artifact mats. When I had finally got some, I had to decide how to use it. Craft something for myself or sell it. I decided the credits I might get for the item would benefit me more than the item itself while the player who bought it from me thought the opposite. We had a deal.

 

Now, prices are only a fraction what those used to be a month ago. Was it really too much to wait when current gear level is likely to stay for quite a while?

 

But it seems, in your world it is fine to sell a CM item for millions of credits (that are getting more expensive with time in contrast to crafted items), but it is absurd to have premium on a crafted item for a short period of time. So basicly there should be no way around purchasing CM packs, you should only be able to exchange CM stuff to CM stuff, paying real life money. No, thank you.

Edited January 16, 2015 by varietasplus

[eartharioch]

Oh well. I see everyone is rather happy that 2/3 of crew skills were utterly replaced by furious slot mashine clicking. So what... Let's replace more game mechanics by that in the future, let the slot mashine hurl out some crafted items as well and let's remove the crew skill system as a whole ... the market will surely stabilise around new mechanics and the prices will adjust.

 

And why stop there, let the next patch bring new slot machines! One for flaspoint drops and another for operation drops. Just insert coin and pray for good drop. Who cares about the old ways!? The new, easy click'n'get mechanics are the best![/color]

 

GSIsus and Legacy Companion Gear would like to let you know that your "future" is already here...

 

BW is [not very slowly] replacing all key game mechanics with "I win" buttons. Discussing "game balance" is rapidly becoming arguing about the shape, size, and position of said buttons, and complaining about their activation delay.

Edited January 16, 2015 by eartharioch

[Voveca]

GSIsus and Legacy Companion Gear would like to let you know that your "future" is already here...

 

BW is [not very slowly] replacing all key game mechanics with "I win" buttons. Discussing "game balance" is rapidly becoming arguing about the shape, size, and position of said buttons, and complaining about their activation delay.

 

Amen Brother!

[wolfyde]

You have just proven you have know idea about economy in general.

Supply, demand, resource cost, price, profit margin are ALL part of an economy, saying the increase of supply (therefore lowering total cost) has no effect on game economy is contradiction.

 

Oh but I do But that's the thing; the mistake you are making (and several others on these boards, I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you personally ) is treating an MMO economy like a real world one. The mechanics and workings are not the same.

I detailed it in one of my earlier posts; in-game currency is generated from nothing on one end (from questrewards, vendoring items to npc's, etc.), and removed on the other end (through moneysinks and costs) in (ideally) equal numbers. The 'middle' pool of money in circulation remains roughly the same. And changes in demand, supply and profit margins do not impact that base pool of money. The only thing that changes is the numbers on transactions between players, and the movements of capital amongst the playerbase. The distribution of wealth, basically.

The main difference between lots of goods/low profit margins and scarce goods/high profit margins is that in the first scenario wealth will distibute more equally amongt the playerbase, whilst the second scenario will create a minority group hoarding a large chunk of the moneypool, inflating prices, and only benefiting themselves.

 

And yes, now, initially, CM items may seem more expensive because our crafting income is being reduced.

But if they no longer sell at the listed price point, their prices will inevitably follow the market and drop as well.

[varietasplus]

And yes, now, initially, CM items may seem more expensive because our crafting income is being reduced.

But if they no longer sell at the listed price point, their prices will inevitably follow the market and drop as well.

 

CM does not SEEM to be more expensive currently, it IS more expensive, both relatively and absolutely. Based on rarity a single gear piece costs approximately 200k, whereas the rarest of all sells for 2-3 million to 10 million credits.

 

Suppose you were right about the credits generated/sunk balance, by basicly eliminiating the crafting mat sink (running mission costs) and previously the augment sink (augment slots are bolstered post patch 3.0), if credit generation is left unchanged, there is a huge gap created, ceteris paribus credit inflation is inevitable, therefore Cartel Market prices go up.

 

Now, about your idea of wealth distributed more evenly: it has always been a false dream in human history. Suppose all the goods were redistributed, 2 years later wealth distribution would be very similiar to the initial.

 

But let's focus on the game. The distribution of wealth is already polarized. Suppose there was balance on the generated/sunk credit quantity, if the potential profit of crafting/gathering is marginal or zero, the only thing valuable you can offer for a CM item is another CM item. Since you can only "generate" CM Items by using Real Life Money, you are going to exchange RLM to RLM and credits will surve no other purpose than to represent CMI value (for crafted items or mats will have little to none, only exchangable to one or the other).

 

If credit pool is considered to be constant based on your theory, then the current value will basicly depend on the supply/demand of Cartel Market Items, therefore you can not foretell whether prices go up or down.

Edited January 16, 2015 by varietasplus

[jojobanutz]

Oh but I do But that's the thing; the mistake you are making (and several others on these boards, I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you personally ) is treating an MMO economy like a real world one. The mechanics and workings are not the same.

I detailed it in one of my earlier posts; in-game currency is generated from nothing on one end (from questrewards, vendoring items to npc's, etc.), and removed on the other end (through moneysinks and costs) in (ideally) equal numbers. The 'middle' pool of money in circulation remains roughly the same. And changes in demand, supply and profit margins do not impact that base pool of money. The only thing that changes is the numbers on transactions between players, and the movements of capital amongst the playerbase. The distribution of wealth, basically.

The main difference between lots of goods/low profit margins and scarce goods/high profit margins is that in the first scenario wealth will distibute more equally amongt the playerbase, whilst the second scenario will create a minority group hoarding a large chunk of the moneypool, inflating prices, and only benefiting themselves.

 

And yes, now, initially, CM items may seem more expensive because our crafting income is being reduced.

But if they no longer sell at the listed price point, their prices will inevitably follow the market and drop as well.

^ This

I think this will democratise the spread of wealth very effectively.

 

Also, we're only really looking at Grade 11 purple stuff, the effect overall across the whole range of mats and crafted gear will be diluted hugely.

 

Essentially, players who have concentrated thier efforts only on top tier mats and crafting will be most affected. Those who have spread thier efforts over the entire range will be largely unaffected. If anything, this will force people to adapt, and hunt niches more. No more easy mode, things will likely be much more interesing and competitive now.

 

[jojobanutz]

CM does not SEEM to be more expensive currently, it IS more expensive, both relatively and absolutely. Based on rarity a single gear piece costs approximately 200k, whereas the rarest of all sells for 2-3 million to 10 million credits.

 

Suppose you were right about the credits generated/sunk balance, by basicly eliminiating the crafting mat sink (running mission costs) and previously the augment sink (augment slots are bolstered post patch 3.0), if credit generation is left unchanged, there is a huge gap created, ceteris paribus credit inflation is inevitable, therefore Cartel Market prices go up.

 

Now, about your idea of wealth distributed more evenly: it has always been a false dream in human history. Suppose all the goods were redistributed, 2 years later wealth distribution would be very similiar to the initial.

 

But let's focus on the game. The distribution of wealth is already polarized. Suppose there was balance on the generated/sunk credit quantity, if the potential profit of crafting/gathering is marginal or zero, the only thing valuable you can offer for a CM item is another CM item. Since you can only "generate" CM Items by using Real Life Money, you are going to exchange RLM to RLM and credits will surve no other purpose than to represent CMI value (for crafted items or mats will have little to none, only exchangable to one or the other).

 

If credit pool is considered to be constant based on your theory, then the current value will basicly depend on the supply/demand of Cartel Market Items, therefore you can not foretell whether prices go up or down.

I thik your concentration on CM items being the only factor to consider contains one big flaw. CM items are entirely aesthetic. Thay have no effect on gameplay. There will always be a need for mods, ears, etc etc, items that provide gameply changing stats. So there will always be niches for crafters to compete for and fill.

 

[varietasplus]

^ This

I think this will democratise the spread of wealth very effectively.

 

Also, we're only really looking at Grade 11 purple stuff, the effect overall across the whole range of mats and crafted gear will be diluted hugely.

 

Essentially, players who have concentrated thier efforts only on top tier mats and crafting will be most affected. Those who have spread thier efforts over the entire range will be largely unaffected. If anything, this will force people to adapt, and hunt niches more. No more easy mode, things will likely be much more interesing and competitive now.

 

 

Patch 3.0 introduced easy-mode levelling. Why would anyone need crafted items sub level 60?

[jojobanutz]

Patch 3.0 introduced easy-mode levelling. Why would anyone need crafted items sub level 60?

People like spending. Whether its Creds, Comms or RL money

With the removal of training costs even lowbie first time players have creds to spend and want to upgrade thier gear.

[Helig]

Yes, and crafting isn't going anywhere, that was one of the points I was making. Items will still be made and still be sold on the GTN, just as before. People who like to craft will still craft. The only impact is on profit margins.

 

And the situation after SoR was not all that healthy; the low return rates on purple mats from missions drove prices way too high to be affordable to a chunk of the playerbase (the creditcapped f2p and preferred players).

 

Even if crew missions are made redundant, so what? It's not the first time in a game that one mechanic gets replaced by another.

It's not like those crew missions have an element of interactivity or fun to them; you click and wait for a return.

What of your game experience is exactly lost there?

It's like making solo daily quests give more Ultimate comms than raiding and discontinuing content development. Raiding won't be going anywhere, but it'll be pretty much dead, aside for a bunch enthusiasts. Imagine the outrage.

 

SWToR crew skills were never amazing, and they took another big blow that moved them closer to being redundant. I love crafting in all MMOs. I don't care for making arseloads of money with it (it does help, though - once you put work into setting it up, you have more time for actually enjoying the game, not grinding), I just like having another tendril of connection with the community.

 

Not to mention that I'm thoroughly tired of crafting in SWToR being an after-thought, a mini-addition to everything else. ESO is nothing special, but the crafting had me hooked for over 6 months (obviously not all that I did, but it, along with testing various playstyles, was the biggest hook).

 

I really want SWToR crafting to become a PILLAR of the game, just like raiding and PvP. Not the outdated mess that it is now.

 

As far as credit sinks are concerned, revamp the damn gathering missions. Make them better credit sinks with more reliable returns. Slot machines are an asinine solution.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Helig

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

It's like making solo daily quests give more Ultimate comms than raiding and discontinuing content development. Raiding won't be going anywhere, but it'll be pretty much dead, aside for a bunch enthusiasts. Imagine the outrage.

 

SWToR crew skills were never amazing, and they took another big blow that moved them closer to being redundant. I love crafting in all MMOs. I don't care for making arseloads of money with it (it does help, though - once you put work into setting it up, you have more time for actually enjoying the game, not grinding), I just like having another tendril of connection with the community.

 

Not to mention that I'm thoroughly tired of crafting in SWToR being an after-thought, a mini-addition to everything else. ESO is nothing special, but the crafting had me hooked for over 6 months (obviously not all that I did, but it, along with testing various playstyles, was the biggest hook).

 

I really want SWToR crafting to become a PILLAR of the game, just like raiding and PvP. Not the outdated mess that it is now.

 

As far as credit sinks are concerned, revamp the damn gathering missions. Make them better credit sinks with more reliable returns. Slot machines are an asinine solution.

 

Helig, might I point you to The Repopulation if you want a game with alot of crafting? https://www.therepopulation.com/

[Helig]

Helig, might I point you to The Repopulation if you want a game with alot of crafting? https://www.therepopulation.com/

Was half-disappointed not seeing Farmville or My Little Pony on the other end of the link

[asbalana]

Helig, might I point you to The Repopulation if you want a game with alot of crafting? https://www.therepopulation.com/

 

I am not sure about Helig's response (tongue in cheek?), but looked at the linked site quickly. I think that the game is worth researching to see if it has any appeal to me and see if it has been found to be a "quality" effort by other players.

 

SWTOR has jumped the shark in a lot of ways and I am not quite sure where the game is actually going other than building to suck RL money beyond sub fees out of players via the Cartel Market.

 

I've read most of the comments regarding the Slot Machines (together with other new gear and material acquisition changes) and just don't understand them as a quality or meaningful game feature. Recent moves by the devs in a number of such areas will, in my opinion, negatively effect the game economy and minimalize crafting.

[DarthTHC]

I am not sure about Helig's response (tongue in cheek?), but looked at the linked site quickly. I think that the game is worth researching to see if it has any appeal to me and see if it has been found to be a "quality" effort by other players.

 

SWTOR has jumped the shark in a lot of ways and I am not quite sure where the game is actually going other than building to suck RL money beyond sub fees out of players via the Cartel Market.

 

I've read most of the comments regarding the Slot Machines (together with other new gear and material acquisition changes) and just don't understand them as a quality or meaningful game feature. Recent moves by the devs in a number of such areas will, in my opinion, negatively effect the game economy and minimalize crafting.

 

Crafting has not been minimized, marginalized, or whatever.

 

Running missions to get materials, yes. Because now you can do it for less money, instantly, instead of for slightly more money with a 35-60 minute delay.

 

But making stuff? No. Not any more than it already was before the introduction of the slot machine.

[varietasplus]

Crafting has not been minimized, marginalized, or whatever.

 

Running missions to get materials, yes. Because now you can do it for less money, instantly, instead of for slightly more money with a 35-60 minute delay.

 

But making stuff? No. Not any more than it already was before the introduction of the slot machine.

 

Wrong.

 

Crafting items with schematics easily accessible (grade 36 augments, hilts, barrelts, kits, relics, implants, earpieces, etc.) are done for, on the long run profit margin is likely to equal the indirect mat cost originating from crits upon crafting.

 

Crafting fee for items with schematics originating from rev-engineering operation drops, therefore exclusive are going to remain unchanged (you had to bring the mats anyway).

[JonnyRay]

I haven't seen the crash on The Ebon Hawk that others have talked about. Last night both Midlthe Crystals and Doonium were selling for about the same as they were last weekend.

 

For those that have seen the crash, are materials selling on the GTN for less per unit than it would cost to get them via the missions?

 

If so, I guess I'd see that as a bonus for me. Because I can just buy them outright instead of hoping to get after the crew mission is done.

 

Since I haven't been one to make most of my money from selling materials, I don't see this affecting me much.

 

And even if I did want to, I would guess all you'd really have to do is run missions to get QL 5 or 6 or 9 mats. I imagine people who are farming the slot machine for Jawa Junk aren't spending a lot of time looking at what materials sell for the best cost per unit, they're just buying QL 11 stuff because the highest level must be the most costly, right?

[DarthTHC]

Wrong.

 

Crafting items with schematics easily accessible (grade 36 augments, hilts, barrelts, kits, relics, implants, earpieces, etc.) are done for, on the long run profit margin is likely to equal the indirect mat cost originating from crits upon crafting.

 

Crafting fee for items with schematics originating from rev-engineering operation drops, therefore exclusive are going to remain unchanged (you had to bring the mats anyway).

 

Crafting for below-the-best stuff has always been a shaky market at best. No change there.

[Jacksyn]

I’ve been a SWTOR subscriber since launch. I found crafting to be one of the reasons I still play the game today. I like playing in the Star Wars universe. I play mostly pvp, but casually, and I might do an occasional operation if one of my characters is in demand.

 

From early on, I leveled up additional characters, mostly to help my crafting. I added alts for gathering missions and leveled them up and maxed companion affection at considerable expense just to supplement the gathering of needed materials for crafting.

 

I’ve made and spent millions of credits, probably more than 200 million credits all told. I won’t apologize for that, because I put in the time and effort to do it, and frankly anyone with a subscription could have done the same thing. I’m sure some of the hard-core crafters have moved credits in the billions. They shouldn’t have to apologize for it either. They put even more work in.

 

I did the “crafter shuffle”, logging on to each character and assigning missions each time I logged on and off of this game, then used those materials to craft items I found a small niche for on the GTN. I’ve never chased high-end items. I have always crafted typical items everyone needs and priced them intelligently.

 

I enjoyed it a lot but the whole process appears to be at an end due to either an oversight or a planned obsolescence of player crafting by BioWare. As I mentioned, I’ve been a subscriber since the beginning and I have never spent an extra dime for a cartel coin, and I never will. If the game boils down to pay to play for crafting, I’m out and I will look forward to the next Star Wars game created by some other gaming company.

 

Anyone who crafts and believes moving material gathering from zones and companion missions to slot machines is good for the game is an idiot or a troll.

[Faardor]

I haven't seen the crash on The Ebon Hawk that others have talked about. Last night both Midlthe Crystals and Doonium were selling for about the same as they were last weekend.

 

For those that have seen the crash, are materials selling on the GTN for less per unit than it would cost to get them via the missions?

 

If so, I guess I'd see that as a bonus for me. Because I can just buy them outright instead of hoping to get after the crew mission is done.

 

Since I haven't been one to make most of my money from selling materials, I don't see this affecting me much.

 

And even if I did want to, I would guess all you'd really have to do is run missions to get QL 5 or 6 or 9 mats. I imagine people who are farming the slot machine for Jawa Junk aren't spending a lot of time looking at what materials sell for the best cost per unit, they're just buying QL 11 stuff because the highest level must be the most costly, right?

 

45-50k midlithe crystals (I think thats the one most affected) before the crash

to 15k each right now (its been less but also a bit more)

 

since there are only 2 or 3 missions that I believe can crit midlithe crystals and they are by no means guaranteed drops or efficient at all.

[Jacksyn]

I haven't seen the crash on The Ebon Hawk that others have talked about. Last night both Midlthe Crystals and Doonium were selling for about the same as they were last weekend.

 

For those that have seen the crash, are materials selling on the GTN for less per unit than it would cost to get them via the missions?

 

If so, I guess I'd see that as a bonus for me. Because I can just buy them outright instead of hoping to get after the crew mission is done.

 

Since I haven't been one to make most of my money from selling materials, I don't see this affecting me much.

 

And even if I did want to, I would guess all you'd really have to do is run missions to get QL 5 or 6 or 9 mats. I imagine people who are farming the slot machine for Jawa Junk aren't spending a lot of time looking at what materials sell for the best cost per unit, they're just buying QL 11 stuff because the highest level must be the most costly, right?

 

800 credits for Molytex, in full stacks.

[asbalana]

Crafting has not been minimized, marginalized, or whatever.

 

Running missions to get materials, yes. Because now you can do it for less money, instantly, instead of for slightly more money with a 35-60 minute delay.

 

But making stuff? No. Not any more than it already was before the introduction of the slot machine.

 

Crafting combines material acquisition and management with development of recipes and then item production.

 

Waving one's hands and saying "yup materials are no longer part" is dismissive of and blind to the impact of the changes. I've spent three years on three servers balancing crew skills to optimize my crafting. What value now are the characters with 500 level gathering or misson skills? If I have the crafting skills on sufficient characters, why even have crew skills on the others? One of my fondest memories of WOW is mapping mat nodes and going out and competing for the mats. The environment of fighting for the nodes made pvp look tame.

 

Leveling crafting and acquisition of recopies is mat dependent and was costly and time consuming. There was some satisfaction in being able to make something that was difficult. Now blah, all you need is to throw cheap quickly obtained mats to any crafter and the recipe will come quickly with almost no effort. Nothing that can be crafted is any longer rare or dear.

 

I also said slot machines and indicated "other" changes. I spent quite a bit of time and money gearing my alt (Treek) to the max after the launch of 3.0. Within an hour and a half of the last patch, I had the 192 armor from the Yavin Weekly and replaced everything that I had made. Treek is no longer a well geared companion, but just one of the same. I will not be crafting any gear for other companions. Since I usually run might and willpower characters, why develop crafting skills with respect to Aim or Cunning? Actually the way the Comms work, why even craft purples for myself at max? With the changes in the Comms maximums, I don't even have to craft for leveling characters or alts.

 

As I noted in another post, I early on made my 100M so have no reason to craft for sales. My initial enterprise was in mat sales and then went over to crafted items. Neither market provides a lot of opportunity any longer. Yes, you can still earn credits, but a rich diversified approach no longer exists. I feel for new players., their opportunities have shrunk and become an exercise in limited boredom.

 

In any case, my companions (main and alts) are now sitting idle and Treek has put on weight because there are no missions to run and no excursions to gather.

Edited January 16, 2015 by asbalana

[Joonbeams]

It's funny how my "economists" are on these forums. I'm not one. The issue is really quite simple for a moron like me. If I can't make in-game money from spending the many hours I spend gathering, farming, RE'ing, crafting, selling, re-listing, etc. then I won't craft. Period. It's not a complicated concept. I'm not crafting a thing again (except for my alts) until this 'thing' is fixed.

 

Now, for a bit more complication (up from moron to simpleton level). Crafters seek to make profits. Profit has to be (to the crafter and this varies) greater than the time/effort/expense. So the reason why the crafting 'economy' is 'ruined' is not about credit balance, inflation, and all these other fancy issues. It's because crafters cannot make profits now. This is because, prior to this slot machine/mats vendors there were "barriers" to entry into the crafting world. These "barriers" were the things I mentioned: gathering, RE'ing, farming, hoping for crits, selling, etc. It required a significant expenditure of time and money to keep going. In exchange for that time/money, I could sell my crafted goods to someone who was less willing/able to spend that time money. I make profit, person gets goods without losing time, everyone is happy. But now, there is NO BARRIER to getting all the mats in the world you want with no real expenditure of time/money (I've posted the stats elsewhere). I'm (as a crafter) now irrelevant. I can't make profit. And I have no incentive whatsoever to spend any time/money crafting (again, other than for my alts). I'll use slot machine and fend for myself like everyone else.

 

Now if that's what the devs desire, far be it from me to say it makes no sense. But I can say, for all the time spent developing a system of skills, mats, crafted items, etc. I cannot imagine in any way (and Eric has intimated as much) that this current system, that totally obviates crafting, is what the devs meant to put in place.

[Glower]

Joonbeams, great post man!

[varietasplus]

It's funny how my "economists" are on these forums. I'm not one. The issue is really quite simple for a moron like me. If I can't make in-game money from spending the many hours I spend gathering, farming, RE'ing, crafting, selling, re-listing, etc. then I won't craft. Period. It's not a complicated concept. I'm not crafting a thing again (except for my alts) until this 'thing' is fixed.

 

Now, for a bit more complication (up from moron to simpleton level). Crafters seek to make profits. Profit has to be (to the crafter and this varies) greater than the time/effort/expense. So the reason why the crafting 'economy' is 'ruined' is not about credit balance, inflation, and all these other fancy issues. It's because crafters cannot make profits now. This is because, prior to this slot machine/mats vendors there were "barriers" to entry into the crafting world. These "barriers" were the things I mentioned: gathering, RE'ing, farming, hoping for crits, selling, etc. It required a significant expenditure of time and money to keep going. In exchange for that time/money, I could sell my crafted goods to someone who was less willing/able to spend that time money. I make profit, person gets goods without losing time, everyone is happy. But now, there is NO BARRIER to getting all the mats in the world you want with no real expenditure of time/money (I've posted the stats elsewhere). I'm (as a crafter) now irrelevant. I can't make profit. And I have no incentive whatsoever to spend any time/money crafting (again, other than for my alts). I'll use slot machine and fend for myself like everyone else.

 

Now if that's what the devs desire, far be it from me to say it makes no sense. But I can say, for all the time spent developing a system of skills, mats, crafted items, etc. I cannot imagine in any way (and Eric has intimated as much) that this current system, that totally obviates crafting, is what the devs meant to put in place.

 

100% agreed, perfect summary.