RIP craft / economy

[psandak]

It's funny how my "economists" are on these forums. I'm not one. The issue is really quite simple for a moron like me. If I can't make in-game money from spending the many hours I spend gathering, farming, RE'ing, crafting, selling, re-listing, etc. then I won't craft. Period. It's not a complicated concept. I'm not crafting a thing again (except for my alts) until this 'thing' is fixed.

 

Now, for a bit more complication (up from moron to simpleton level). Crafters seek to make profits. Profit has to be (to the crafter and this varies) greater than the time/effort/expense. So the reason why the crafting 'economy' is 'ruined' is not about credit balance, inflation, and all these other fancy issues. It's because crafters cannot make profits now. This is because, prior to this slot machine/mats vendors there were "barriers" to entry into the crafting world. These "barriers" were the things I mentioned: gathering, RE'ing, farming, hoping for crits, selling, etc. It required a significant expenditure of time and money to keep going. In exchange for that time/money, I could sell my crafted goods to someone who was less willing/able to spend that time money. I make profit, person gets goods without losing time, everyone is happy. But now, there is NO BARRIER to getting all the mats in the world you want with no real expenditure of time/money (I've posted the stats elsewhere). I'm (as a crafter) now irrelevant. I can't make profit. And I have no incentive whatsoever to spend any time/money crafting (again, other than for my alts). I'll use slot machine and fend for myself like everyone else.

 

Now if that's what the devs desire, far be it from me to say it makes no sense. But I can say, for all the time spent developing a system of skills, mats, crafted items, etc. I cannot imagine in any way (and Eric has intimated as much) that this current system, that totally obviates crafting, is what the devs meant to put in place.

 

I disagree for one simple reason: even with this new easy mode, (in my estimation, based on 15+ years of MMO experience) a majority of players simply would prefer to pay someone else to make their crafted goods for them. How much they are willing to pay MIGHT go down IF they take the time to investigate what the materials are now valued at, but most won't.

 

Just this morning, I collected credits from sales of crafted goods, the value of which only some have dipped markedly:

 

• I sold four grade 36 blue accuracy augments for 24k, that's the high end of average before this patch
  
• OTOH, blue might augments were selling for 13k at the low end this morning, that is the low end of profitability but it is still profitable based on materials acquired through missions
  
• I sold a handful of artifice crafted dye modules last night too, one of which was valued at 75k the rest were 55k+
  
• I also sold a number of purple augments all at 75k. Granted not the 125k they were valued at but still quite profitable
  

 

I guess I am simply more adaptable than most. I am willing to accept more sales at lower profits. My legacy's net worth continues to grow.

[chosonman]

Imo crafting is a side show and runs counter to ea's goal of making the game simple for casuals and generating a profit so killing crafting mini game (or at least diluting it to purely crafing augments and kits) isnt out of the realm of possibilities.

 

You can already see that the major crafting items such as armor, weapons, color crystals, mounts, and dyes are all "produced" by CM pack buyers. What were seeing with the slot machine is just an evolution of the direction EA is going with respect to crafting.

 

Its always been maintained that EA wants a larger causual gamer base. And what better way to increase their revenue by making everything available via the cartel market. Because as we know crafters are killing the bottom line.

 

Casuals can now play the crafting game too. They no longer have to level their comps, and log in every 30 minutes to check in on their missions. They can just roll dice for 30 minutes and be done for the day. The catch is you need to spend real money getting the magic crafting machine.

Edited January 16, 2015 by chosonman

[JonnyRay]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has linked to Eric's thread yet...

 

The Contraband Slot Machine by Eric Musco

 

In summary...

1. It is currently working as designed
   
2. They will monitor the long term effects on the SWTOR economy and adjust if necessary
   

[psandak]

The catch is you need to spend real money for a chance to get the magic crafting machine.

fixed.

 

And again with the contradictions. You are saying that EA is trying to remove crafting from the game because it bites into their profits, but they are doing so by making crafting easier?

 

And even then, it is not crafting that they are making any easier, it is in fact materials acquisition. A LOT of crafting takes:

 

1. acquire basic schematic
   
2. craft some item from that schematic
   
3. RE those items
   
4. eventually get better schematic
   
5. craft some of those
   
6. RE those items
   
7. eventually get the best schematic
   
8. craft those for use or sale.
   

 

A lot of players would rather pay someone else to go through all that.

 

The ONLY thing the slot machine really does is bring value down. That will only drive players away from crafting, but the demand for crafted items will still exist.

 

In addition, the crafting system cannot be replaced by the CM for one simple reason: it's too close to P2W. Right now EVERY item on the CM is cosmetic - you do not HAVE to buy anything from the CM to do well in this game. if you want a particular look for a character, then you have to invest. As soon as Ruusan relics and Hawkeye implants and ear pieces are made available on the CM I'll believe you. Until then you are just upset that the slot machine and jawa junk are making materials and crafting less profitable.

[chosonman]

fixed.

 

And again with the contradictions. You are saying that EA is trying to remove crafting from the game because it bites into their profits, but they are doing so by making crafting easier?

 

And even then, it is not crafting that they are making any easier, it is in fact materials acquisition. A LOT of crafting takes:

 

1. acquire basic schematic
   
2. craft some item from that schematic
   
3. RE those items
   
4. eventually get better schematic
   
5. craft some of those
   
6. RE those items
   
7. eventually get the best schematic
   
8. craft those for use or sale.
   

 

A lot of players would rather pay someone else to go through all that.

 

The ONLY thing the slot machine really does is bring value down. That will only drive players away from crafting, but the demand for crafted items will still exist.

 

In addition, the crafting system cannot be replaced by the CM for one simple reason: it's too close to P2W. Right now EVERY item on the CM is cosmetic - you do not HAVE to buy anything from the CM to do well in this game. if you want a particular look for a character, then you have to invest. As soon as Ruusan relics and Hawkeye implants and ear pieces are made available on the CM I'll believe you. Until then you are just upset that the slot machine and jawa junk are making materials and crafting less profitable.

 

 

You can stop quoting me and replying to my posts because you are being ignored. The reason you are being ignored is because you act like your'e smarter than everyone else. I think youre not as smart as you think. Any further replies by you to any of my future posts including this one will result in a cut and paste of this exact text without further response.

[asbalana]

fixed.

 

In addition, the crafting system cannot be replaced by the CM for one simple reason: it's too close to P2W. Right now EVERY item on the CM is cosmetic - you do not HAVE to buy anything from the CM to do well in this game.

 

LOL, half true.

 

You can go from 1 to 60 on drops. Enjoy and have fun doing that.

 

But I am not sure that I can craft the level 10 crystals with +41 stats, available from the CM.

 

I am not sure that I can craft level 1 adaptive armor available from the CM. Although there has always been some horrid social armor that was moddable at low levels, let me know what full set you can craft that takes mods, etc. at level 9.

 

PS - In the example from your post that I deleted, you need mats to craft the stuff that you RE and then the final purple.

 

PPS - Selling packs that provide machines that provide fast cheap mats for high quality armor is p2w in my book.

Edited January 16, 2015 by asbalana

[Joonbeams]

I disagree for one simple reason: even with this new easy mode, (in my estimation, based on 15+ years of MMO experience) a majority of players simply would prefer to pay someone else to make their crafted goods for them. How much they are willing to pay MIGHT go down IF they take the time to investigate what the materials are now valued at, but most won't.

 

Just this morning, I collected credits from sales of crafted goods, the value of which only some have dipped markedly:

 

• I sold four grade 36 blue accuracy augments for 24k, that's the high end of average before this patch
  
• OTOH, blue might augments were selling for 13k at the low end this morning, that is the low end of profitability but it is still profitable based on materials acquired through missions
  
• I sold a handful of artifice crafted dye modules last night too, one of which was valued at 75k the rest were 55k+
  
• I also sold a number of purple augments all at 75k. Granted not the 125k they were valued at but still quite profitable
  

 

I guess I am simply more adaptable than most. I am willing to accept more sales at lower profits. My legacy's net worth continues to grow.

 

I've done my own personal testing with my tiny, one day sample size. And in my anecdotes, there are fewer overall sales. But since I don't have hard numbers, I won't challenge the overall premise that IF there are more sales with slimmer margins, things can still be viable. But I don't see this leading there. I think one has to look at the trend here. With essentially ONE DAY of slots, mat and item prices have plummeted. Slots are not yet ubiquitous AND the real flooding of the market with cheap mats hasn't even yet fully begun.

 

I think in theory you are right that even the easiest of easy modes still might not be worth it for some. But I think its fair to assume that this represents a rather small portion of the overall market. I don't think it's debatable that the easier (time and money) it becomes to craft, the smaller the market will be for those buying crafted items. So i'm not sure there is much "volume" to recoup here. More likely, there will be a supply overload (further driving down prices).

 

I do agree there will still be a crafting market for some crafted items for those who simply don't want to spend even a second gathering. But there will soon be NO MARKET for those who sell mats. Because I do believe there is a level (IMO we're there now with slots) that it is simply too easy (for the non-crafter) to just hit the slots a few times between pops, get guaranteed "crits" and grab the mats you need for you and your alts. This, alone, is bad for the crafting economy.

 

So for those of use who sell crafted items (I craft and sell only purples, some high-end blues), we will need substantially larger quantities of cheaper mats to make up in volume (assuming even that demand is there) what we lose in prices. Slots also require a fair amount of otherwise unproductive time to gather mats (you must sit there clicking and doing nothing else), and not in the volumes needed to make up for the higher amounts of items needed to be sold. We need gatherers out there selling mats, e.g. in reasonably-priced bundles of 99 before, for us, it becomes too cumbersome to craft. But with nary a profit to be had for the gatherers, they will flee the market. In the end, I'm afraid, the only thing that makes sense is crafting for your alts/companions.

 

But BW will fix this so most of these effects will be short-lived hopefully.

[Khevar]

But I am not sure that I can craft the level 10 crystals with +41 stats, available from the CM.

 

I am not sure that I can craft level 1 adaptive armor available from the CM. Although there has always been some horrid social armor that was moddable at low levels, let me know what full set you can craft that takes mods, etc. at level 9.

For what it's worth, I do agree with point about the armor.

 

There is a surprising amount of non moddable armor that I find quite appealing. On my operative, I found this green-level "imperial officer's" uniform that I liked so much I continued to use it way beyond it's expiration date. From the beginning, I've always wished that it were possible to RE a green armor to learn a schematic for a moddable version with the same look. Synthweaving for Strength / Willpower gear and Armormech for Aim / Cunning gear.

 

Alas, this is unlikely to ever come to pass.

 

On the crystals, I think it would have been better for them to be purely cosmetic -- no stats at all. I think there were even some dev posts expressing the same sentiment a while back.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Khevar

[Blackiesmith]

Just to say my two cent, they really need to fix this issue. I used the machine for about 2 hours and have 111 jawa junk , 25 cartel certs, maxed my weekly rep with whatever those things go towards, and sold the rest, and have tons of the blues and greens scrap. They do need to fix it because the price of all mats on gtn has been dropping at an exponential rate. I saw the adaptive circuitry go from 45k per to about 17k per in 2 days. The mistake in the drop rate on the machines will hurt mat prices for about 1 month after they fix it. But atm poeple are going crazy on the machines and hoarding all that stuff. The sooner they fix it the better.

[Khevar]

First of all, let me say that I fully expect the rate of return on the slots to be adjusted, and not just because of this post.

 

But when I see comments like this:

... I saw the adaptive circuitry go from 45k per to about 17k per in 2 days. ...

I realize that players don't know the true margins involved in these mats.

 

Adaptive Circuitry costs 4k per purple mat to obtain, on average, running Bountiful and Rich missions with full affection companions and vendoring the blues to recover some of the costs.

 

People selling them for 45k were making a THOUSAND PERCENT PROFIT on the mats. This was due to the scarcity of the mats, and the demand (lots of players with lots of alts needing lots of augments). Note that this isn't a complaint. I also sold ACs for a phenomenal profit. It was good while it lasted.

 

Selling them at 17k is still a THREE HUNDRED PERCENT PROFIT. That's nothing to shake a stick at.

[asbalana]

For what it's worth, I do agree with point about the armor.

 

There is a surprising amount of non moddable armor that I find quite appealing. On my operative, I found this green-level "imperial officer's" uniform that I liked so much I continued to use it way beyond it's expiration date. From the beginning, I've always wished that it were possible to RE a green armor to learn a schematic for a moddable version with the same look. Synthweaving for Strength / Willpower gear and Armormech for Aim / Cunning gear.

 

Alas, this is unlikely to ever come to pass.

 

On the crystals, I think it would have been better for them to be purely cosmetic -- no stats at all. I think there were even some dev posts expressing the same sentiment a while back.

 

LOL, I remember the good old days, when there was little to no moddable armor.

 

My Synth and Armormech stayed busy and there were, if you were willing to spend the time, effort, and credits, some nice purple armor that you could make.

 

At first I thought that the modding was interesting and a good idea, because if you found an armor set that you liked, you could keep it to end game. It was a hit to crafters, not in a financial sense you just switched to mods, armoring, and enhancements, but in the sense that it left fewer interesting weapons and armor sets to craft.

 

I wonder if the CM was planned early on or at the git go and the concept of modding was introduced to support it. Clearly, armor and weapons that you buy on the CM would have little value and not generate much revenue if you could only keep them for a few levels. I think in my next MMO (still patiently waiting for one to move to) I will check the crafting to see if there is a modding concept and if so likely avoid it.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Well the drop in mat value doesn't really hurt anyone per se - the market adjusts all around for it.

[eartharioch]

But I am not sure that I can craft the level 10 crystals with +41 stats, available from the CM.

 

Patch 3.0.2 (the new one) added eight tri-color crystal schematics (all four stats in two color combinations) to the Artifice Training vendor -- the schematics cost 11K and take around 100K (my server post-crash prices) in mats to make. As with the CM crystals, they require character level 10 and have +41 to the stat.

 

That said, if you aren't picky about the color, CM crystals have been going for way below 100K for a while now, so it's rather a moot point. I would think it pretty unlikely that they would add schematics that let you craft a +41 char level 10 item at a price point affordable by a first-level-10 char in an account, F2P or sub. But without training costs, even first time lowbies should be able to acquire one before level 20.

Edited January 16, 2015 by eartharioch

[varietasplus]

First of all, let me say that I fully expect the rate of return on the slots to be adjusted, and not just because of this post.

 

But when I see comments like this:

 

I realize that players don't know the true margins involved in these mats.

 

Adaptive Circuitry costs 4k per purple mat to obtain, on average, running Bountiful and Rich missions with full affection companions and vendoring the blues to recover some of the costs.

 

People selling them for 45k were making a THOUSAND PERCENT PROFIT on the mats. This was due to the scarcity of the mats, and the demand (lots of players with lots of alts needing lots of augments). Note that this isn't a complaint. I also sold ACs for a phenomenal profit. It was good while it lasted.

 

Selling them at 17k is still a THREE HUNDRED PERCENT PROFIT. That's nothing to shake a stick at.

 

 

The perfect example how to misread numbers.

 

When you evaluate returns, you need to evaluate absolute profit and time required to realize profit as well, not only relative returns (percentage).

 

Would it make you happy if I bought something from you for 500 credits that only cost you 100 credit and 15 minutes of your time? 400% profit in 15 minutes is not bad, right? However, 400 credits for 15 minutes is not that attractive, right?

 

If something costs you 4k and you sell it for 16k, it is indeed 300% percent profit, but after all it is only 12k credits and considering the time it takes to run enough gathering missions (swapping alts) to obtains those, it is simply not worth your time and definitely not worth reaching max level affection/skill level, you had better do some dailies and earn those credits way faster and you would actually be playing the game in the meantime.

 

There had already been a nerf regarding augments, reducing the requirement for artifact components from 4 to 2 and augmentation kits are far easier to obtain owing to the plethora of green mats and cheap reverse engineering. Both kits and augments had been significantly more expensive with a slower price reduction after patch 2.0, yet economy seemed healty back then. With the mentioned changes, prices have been decreasing way faster after patch 3.0 and balance would have been achieved in few week's time.

 

The slot machine made crew missions inferior, so not remove those then entirely?

Edited January 16, 2015 by varietasplus

[Khevar]

If something costs you 4k and you sell it for 16k, it is indeed 300% percent profit, but after all it is only 12k credits and considering the time it takes to run enough gathering missions (swapping alts) to obtains those, it is simply not worth your time and definitely not worth reaching max level affection/skill level, you had better do some dailies and earn those credits way faster and you would actually be playing the game in the meantime.

Emphasis added by me.

 

This is a very silly statement. The time involved in running crew missions is not time you yourself are expending doing crew missions. It happens while you do something else.

 

Running crew missions requires a only few seconds of clicks, and then you can go play the game in the meantime. Or do you stare at the timer for 45 minutes and wait for it to finish?

[Daxy]

The perfect example how to misread numbers.

 

When you evaluate returns, you need to evaluate absolute profit as well, not only relative returns (percentage).

 

If something costs you 4k and you sell it for 16k, it is indeed 300% percent profit, but after all it is only 12k credits and considering the time it takes to run enough gathering missions (swapping alts) to obtains those, it is simply not worth your time and definitely not worth reaching max level affection/skill level, you had better do some dailies and earn those credits way faster and you would actually be playing the game in the meantime.

 

There had already been a nerf regarding augments, reducing the requirement for artifact components from 4 to 2 and augmentation kits are far easier to obtain owing to the plethora of green mats and cheap reverse engineering. Both kits and augments had been significantly more expensive with a slower price reduction after patch 2.0, yet economy seemed healty back then. With the mentioned changes, prices have been decreasing way faster after patch 3.0 and balance would have been achieved in few week's time.

 

The slot machine made crew missions inferior, so why don't they just remove it then?

 

I think the game went off the rails with 12xexp

The game seemed much healthier over the summer but these heavy handed moves have, seemingly, gutted the leveling economy, gutted leveling group finders, and gutted the barriers keeping players from getting in too deep (ie- having a max level toon with no real knowledge how to gear or provide for itself)

 

The endgame is now the new beginning- level 60 is the new level one- maybe this is some radical new game style where there are no more levels and Bio is really pushing the envelope but I don't think so

 

It really seems as though this slot machine is a passive/aggressive way of dealing with the ops exploit- "some people exploited the game to get access too the stash so let's just flood the market with grade 11 purples- that will fix things"

 

I really only logged into the game to sell items, run crew missions, and pvp

I also know that my playstyle is not "mainstream" but I did pay a monthly sub and with all these recent changes I'm kinda losing steam here

The best thing I liked about 3.0 was solo fp's- in a MMO ffs- serenity now

 

Long story short- crew skills/economy is really the only thing that I end up enjoying in a mmo but I'm afraid swtor has officially jumped the shark in 3.0

[asbalana]

Patch 3.0.2 (the new one) added eight tri-color crystal schematics (all four stats in two color combinations) to the Artifice Training vendor -- the schematics cost 11K and take around 100K (my server post-crash prices) in mats to make. As with the CM crystals, they require character level 10 and have +41 to the stat.

 

That said, if you aren't picky about the color, CM crystals have been going for way below 100K for a while now, so it's rather a moot point. I would think it pretty unlikely that they would add schematics that let you craft a +41 char level 10 item at a price point affordable by a first-level-10 char in an account, F2P or sub. But without training costs, even first time lowbies should be able to acquire one before level 20.

 

Hi and thanks, I did not know that. A long time ago, with my ill gotten gains from crafting, I bought three advanced crystals with different stats, put them in my collection and never looked at crystals again. I never really sold crystals so they were the furthest thing from my mind.

 

So Finkle, one of my Artiface guys on Shadowlands, went over and talked to the trainer. Finkle does not get out much so it is nice when he can take a varactal ride around fleet. You are correct, the colors are horrible and each crystal takes ten purples, so I have another schematic in my vast armada that I will never use.

 

This makes me wonder, now that Finkle can do his thing and pop out 41 Hawkeyes, how long before we see level 192 Hawkeys 45 power yummy crystals pop up on on the CM. Finkle has asked me to tell my other Artifice guys on different servers not to bother to buy the advanced crystal schematics.

Edited January 17, 2015 by asbalana

[varietasplus]

Emphasis added by me.

 

This is a very silly statement. The time involved in running crew missions is not time you yourself are expending doing crew missions. It happens while you do something else.

 

Running crew missions requires a only few seconds of clicks, and then you can go play the game in the meantime. Or do you stare at the timer for 45 minutes and wait for it to finish?

 

Your statement is silly for you seem to be clueless about gathering missions. To obtain decent ammount of artifact crafting mats you need to run rich/bountiful missions simultaneously on multiple toons (4-6-8 toons or whatever) and you need to spend a lot of time logging in and out, not to mention all the times when you need to travel around with the very same toon for those missions are not listed.

[Khevar]

Your statement is silly for you seem to be clueless about gathering missions. To obtain decent ammount of artifact crafting mats you need to run rich/bountiful missions simultaneously on multiple toons (4-6-8 toons or whatever) and you need to spend a lot of time logging in and out, not to mention all the times when you need to travel around with the very same toon for those missions are not listed.

So you're trying to tell me that you spend so much time alt-switching on 4-8 toons, that you would make more money running dailies instead?

 

How long does it take you to log in and out of a toon?

Edited January 17, 2015 by Khevar

[asbalana]

The perfect example how to misread numbers.

 

When you evaluate returns, you need to evaluate absolute profit and time required to realize profit as well, not only relative returns (percentage).

 

 

You nailed it on the head. Percentage return is important, but so is absolute return in amount.

 

For example, just suppose now that Finkle (see last my post) my artifice guy can craft ugly but top level 41 usable at 10 hawkeyes. Further suppose that in the next CM offering we suddlenly see new crystals that are not only attractive and cute but have level 45 stats and are usable at level 10.

 

These will start appearing on the GTN at about 3 to 6 million credits each. If I sell an item or mats at 100% profit and make 500 credits on it, I will need (not considering the BW GTN haircut) to sell at least 6,000 of those neat little 100% profit thingys to get my +45 hawkeye. If I sell something and make a 20% profit which gives me 20,000 credits to the good, I have to sell 150 to get my hawkeye. Sorry, but I am not up to selling 6,000 of anything.

 

If the economy and crafting is so screwed up that I will never make enough to get my hawkeye, oh woe is me. Sure I can shell out cash and buy packs, but several subs in my family and some small CM purchases is enough already. It is not for lack of money, but rather the feeling of being used without being kissed.

Edited January 17, 2015 by asbalana

[MeNaCe-NZ]

CM crystals have been going for way below 100K for a while now,

 

Except hawkeye crystals for the most part. Still eviscerating used to command decent price too but this has dropped a lot - have the nerfed crit dmg or something?

 

I expect if they finally stop bloody bringing back the first grand crystal pack and other old packs then crystal prices should finally start going back up ( I hope - I'm sitting on tons that I refuse to sell under 100K )

 

To the rest of the discussion so far ...

 

I would like to add that crew skills can be run at the same time as slot machines ...

 

Thus until crew skills actually cost more to run than the amount they return they will never be actually obsolete and require removal. As I've said and will happily wager on, these slots will be nerfed ( next patch I would wager ) and when that happens there is no way the mat value will end up under the crew skill mission cost.

[khsolo]

Nothing wrong with contraband slot machine and nothing wrong with jawas selling purple lvl 11 stuff just another fun way of getting lvl 11 mats

 

Some people just dont like change and believe staying inside their comfort zone is better which is normal behavior

 

Adapt to the new change

[Khevar]

This makes me wonder, now that Finkle can do his thing and pop out 41 Hawkeyes, how long before we see level 192 Hawkeys 45 power yummy crystals pop up on on the CM. Finkle has asked me to tell my other Artifice guys on different servers not to bother to buy the advanced crystal schematics.

I'm surprised to see you ask this question -- you've been around long enough to see that the top level stats on crystals have not changed in 3 years.

 

The +41 stat crystals are rating 136. Available at a time when Rakata (rating 140) was the top tier in the game.

 

Since that time, we've had the following tiers of gear added:

 

146

150

156 - Added with patch 2.0

162

168

174

180

186

192 - Added with patch 3.0

198

 

At no time have the stats on the color crystals been increased from +41, what they were at launch.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Khevar

[psandak]

Would it make you happy if I bought something from you for 500 credits that only cost you 100 credit and 15 minutes of your time? 400% profit in 15 minutes is not bad, right? However, 400 credits for 15 minutes is not that attractive, right?

 

If something costs you 4k and you sell it for 16k, it is indeed 300% percent profit, but after all it is only 12k credits and considering the time it takes to run enough gathering missions (swapping alts) to obtains those, it is simply not worth your time and definitely not worth reaching max level affection/skill level, you had better do some dailies and earn those credits way faster and you would actually be playing the game in the meantime.

 

I have made hundreds of millions of credits doing EXACTLY that: crafting items that cost about 5k to make and sell for 10k to 20k each or 10k to make and sell for 20k to 30k.

 

The kicker is that a majority of the time the five or ten I make are all bought by one character. This means that one player who buys five of my items at 20k each is spending the same amount of credits in one shot as another who is buying one 100k item. And I am putting more credits in my pocket because I only spent 25k to 50k to make those five items (not including crits) where the other crafter probably spent 75k or more to make that one 100k item.

 

I've been saying this for a LONG time: quantity over quality; buyers are more likely to not think about dropping 20k several time over, but they will often balk at paying 100k+ unless they really want to or feel they have to.

Edited January 17, 2015 by psandak

[eartharioch]

Well the drop in mat value doesn't really hurt anyone per se - the market adjusts all around for it.

 

Please explain, oh enlightened one. Explain how people that invested [an established amount of] time and credits into being able to gather certain materials are not harmed by a sudden change to the system that allows people who invest less time and credits (near zero and less than zero, actually) to instantly compete on equal footing.