Slot Machine: Just rolled 5000 chips

[Varium]

No he didn't.

 

Running an op actually involves playing your character.

 

Running crew skills is something that happens in the background while you play something else with your character.

 

Not the same thing at all.

 

But it was a nice try at using hyperbole to prove a point (alas, as most attempts to use hyperbole to prove a point, it fell flat)

 

No it's exactly the same thing. I don't want to put effort toward Ops or PVP they should give me alternative way of getting coms by slot machines.

[LordArtemis]

I have a suggestion:

Lets make slot machines drop operation tokens.

I mean if everyone love those slot machines so much that even won't run daily missions in order to make money...

What the point of running ops then?

Just put tokens in slot machine and everyone will be happy)))

Especially those with slots in their SH))))

 

Welcome to the first Gambling MMO!!! Star Slots Online!

 

I have a similar suggestion.

Lets remove all of the cooldowns for travel, put sprint back where it was, go back to individual planetary comms, remove group finder and remove most of the moddable gear from the game, returning to visual progression.

I mean if everyone loves the way things used to be, whats the point of leaving things as they are?

Just return to 1.0 and everyone will be happy)))

Especially those with dreams of returning to the old days of MMO gaming))))

 

Welcome to the chapel of lost MMO gamers!!! Ultima Wars Online!

 

You see, I can post completely ridiculous hyperbole as well.

 

nailed it.

 

Just stop.

Edited January 18, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Neglience]

Well, if we want games where the best way to play them, is sitting afk in front of the monitor and clicking one button over and over, ya gaining machines are the way to go.

 

reminds me of diablo 3. at the start the best way to farm was opening vases over and over for gold, ignoring all monsters.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Neglience

[lironBD]

 

 

Just stop.

 

why ? because unless you and the likes of you can write some smartiness as a reply you ignore all other posts just to justify your laziness?

 

Know what? damn right bring back 1.0

with all the extra planets and content we got now it's actually good idea only problem we had back then was lack of content as illum was last planet you get into.

 

But everything else was challenging...

example...

you could only get augments if you critted on crafting an item... it's not like today when you just toss money at stuff and it get augmented.

 

everything in this game got dumbbed down.. just look at rishi\yavin...

some dude gives you a quest with pop up windows u just click on.. ***? where are the cutscenes and dialogs?

 

If you wish to be taken serious give serious replies with facts in them.

 

I'll ignore the weeds which claims crew skills are missions running at the background as they obviously either lack the knowledge or just wish to increase the game dumbing down "I"m Entitled!" process.

 

To use crew skills to their full potential you had to level at least 6 alts to max level and then get all companions, then max their affection and get proper perks.

add to that the fact you had to level multiple crew skills to 500.

this process takes time and effort, which the introduction of the slot machine is just like spit in the face of anyone which took this path.

[LordArtemis]

why ?

 

Because now your posting nothing but hyperbole. Perhaps your just tired or irritated, I don't know, but any sensible argument you were presenting went out the window.

 

Now your just posting noise IMO. And backing up hyperbole? Do you really want to be seen as a person that supports and encourages hyperbole?

 

With your recent posts you are the LAST person that should be advising anyone on how to be taken seriously. You have made that impossible.

 

Your posts have just become completely silly. Pull yourself together.

 

I understand your opposition, and you made a compelling argument in the beginning. You should return to the realm of logical discussion and discard this silliness.

 

It is obviously beneath you.

Edited January 18, 2015 by LordArtemis

[OddballEasyEight]

No it's exactly the same thing. I don't want to put effort toward Ops or PVP they should give me alternative way of getting coms by slot machines.

 

No it's not.

 

There's no "effort" to running a crew skill mission.

 

There IS an effort to playing PvP or Ops (neither of which I do btw).

 

People are making it out like running crew skills are some sort of herculean task that drains them of all energy.

 

It's a few clicks, that's all.

It's not even close to comparable to playing PvP or doing Ops.

[OddballEasyEight]

Well, if we want games where the best way to play them, is sitting afk in front of the monitor and clicking one button over and over, ya gaining machines are the way to go.

 

reminds me of diablo 3. at the start the best way to farm was opening vases over and over for gold, ignoring all monsters.

 

But it's not the best way to play the game.

 

Arguably the best way to play the game is to play the game and let your companions do the gathering/crafting work.

 

You can choose to sit infront of the monitor and click one button over and over if you choose to, but it's definately not the best way to play the game.

 

(unless, of course, your idea of "playing the game" is to simply have as much rare materials as possible in as short a time as possible. But that sounds like a really boring game to me)

[Varium]

No it's not.

 

There's no "effort" to running a crew skill mission.

 

There IS an effort to playing PvP or Ops (neither of which I do btw).

 

People are making it out like running crew skills are some sort of herculean task that drains them of all energy.

 

It's a few clicks, that's all.

It's not even close to comparable to playing PvP or doing Ops.

 

Neither is PVE or PVP and yet you talk about crafting like it was impossible to do before this.

[Neglience]

But it's not the best way to play the game.

 

Arguably the best way to play the game is to play the game and let your companions do the gathering/crafting work.

 

You can choose to sit infront of the monitor and click one button over and over if you choose to, but it's definately not the best way to play the game.

 

(unless, of course, your idea of "playing the game" is to simply have as much rare materials as possible in as short a time as possible. But that sounds like a really boring game to me)

 

Ofc it is. The best and fastest way to get mats in swtor is using the gaining machine.

 

When a new player on fleets asks: Whats the best Crew-Skill? The answer must be: None, get a slot machine. Its faster, yields more profit, you can chose the mats you need and you get other stuff whilde doing it.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Neglience

[Transcendent]

Why would anyone run a mission that has at best a 20% chance to return 3 of the item you're looking for 30+ minutes from now at a cost of 3,890 credits when they can run a stack of coins through a slot machine in 3-5 minutes and be guaranteed 9-12 of those items, plus another few stacks of things to sell that make the whole transaction free?

 

Actually.

 

This is an interesting point right here. Wouldn't this be a far better litmus test to see how equal the machine is =/= compared to running crew missions?

 

Buy 8 tokens (slightly more than the 3890 credit cost) and see what the return is?

 

Just out of curiousity;

 

3 x Contraband Coin

1 x Confiscated Artwork

1 x Prohibited Medical Supplies

2 x Banned Holovids

1 x Scrap: Assorted Droid Parts

1 x Scrap: Scavenged Scrap

 

Credit return from rep 4500 credits. Total Cost -500 credits

 

Second run;

 

4 x Contraband Coin

2 x Prohibited Medical Supplies

2 x Scrap: Jawa Junk

1 x Scrap: Assorted Droid Parts

1 x Scrap: Scavenged Scrap

 

Credit return from rep 2000 credits. Total Cost 2000 credits

 

Third run;

 

1 x Contraband Coin

2 x Banned Holovids

1 x Scrap: Jawa Junk

1 x Scrap: Scavenged Scrap

1 x Cartel Certificate

 

Credit return from rep 1000 credits. Total Cost 3000 credits.

 

Fourth run;

 

2 x Contraband Coin

1 x Prohibited Medical Supplies

1 x Banned Holovids

2 x Scrap: Assorted Droid Parts

 

Credit return from rep 1500 credits.

 

Fifth run;

 

1 x Prohibited Medical Supplies

2 x Scrap: Assorted Droid Parts

3 x Scrap: Scavenged Scrap

 

Credit return from rep 1000 credits.

 

So out of 5 seperate runs, 2 returned Jawa Junk, of which I gained 3 in total. Which is below the average return for Autoimmune regs or Adaptive Circ if converted directly (missions return 3 or 5) On average for Midlithe Crystals though if you take into account the ~20% RNG return rate for crew missions.

 

Total cost for running 5 missions = 19450 credits, total cost of running 5 seperate stacks of 8 chips = 7000 credits.

 

Scrap: Assorted Droid Parts return was 6 in total, again, below average return rate compared to crew missions that didn't return purple grade 11 materials if converted to blue items. Scrap: Scavenged Scrap returned 6, which makes up for the shortfall in blues somewhat.

 

Cartel Certificate dropped once, wild card.

 

The point being, Jawa Junk conversion rates made running the slot machines worse than running a crew skill mission 5 times (assuming a golden 20% of those missions returning purple grade 11 mats). It cost more, with the exception of the wild card Cartel Certificate in there which has roughly a 2.5% chance to drop, that certainly isn't something to be relied upon. This only applies to Auto Immune Regulators and Adaptive Circuitry though, not to Midlithe Crystals which is on par (assuming a golden 20% of those missions returning a purple).

 

Blues wise, is worse, by far. As said though, greens offset that somewhat. With that CM Cert in there, it's fairly moot.

 

So i'm not seeing how this is actually much better than running crew mission skills for return rates. What is clearly evident is the time aspect, running 8 chips through a machine is by far FASTER than ~30 mins on a crew mission skill run. So your gathering rates are far higher, creating far more supply (outstripping demand on my server now).

 

If BioWare truly wanted to balance this out, they would do one of the two following things;

 

1 - Seriously reduce the time it takes for crew missions to return a result. As in seriously. (~1 min in total to return).

2 - Add a lockout to the machines after 16 chips for 28 minutes (assuming you can run 2 crew missions that would return purple grade 11 mats)

 

Also, if the intent is to allow players to earn old reputation on packs they can no longer gain and then use the vendors to buy items, they would lower the return rate on Cartel Market Certificates to ~1%. Costs wise though, the reputation return is about on par with the costs of running crew skill missions.

 

There is definitely a supply / demand issue that needs to be addressed either way, purple grade 11 mats were far too expensive on the GTN considering the true cost of gaining them if you ran slicing missions.

[tdmaha]

Because now your posting nothing but hyperbole. Perhaps your just tired or irritated, I don't know, but any sensible argument you were presenting went out the window.

 

Now your just posting noise IMO. And backing up hyperbole? Do you really want to be seen as a person that supports and encourages hyperbole?

 

With your recent posts you are the LAST person that should be advising anyone on how to be taken seriously. You have made that impossible.

 

Your posts have just become completely silly. Pull yourself together.

 

I understand your opposition, and you made a compelling argument in the beginning. You should return to the realm of logical discussion and discard this silliness.

 

It is obviously beneath you.

 

You know Art if anyone else posted something like this you would call it trolling or flaming...C'mon man this is beneath you, you can do so much better.

[DarthTHC]

Simple.

You don't like it because you feel that you haven't worked for it.

Well, that and the fact that you're getting less of a profit.

 

Incorrect. The best way to get money is to do nothing and have it handed to you. Winning the lottery would be the awesomest thing ever, except maybe for a date with Jennifer Lawrence.

 

Less profit? Pfft. I'm gonna make credits hand-over-fist.

 

Someone else nailed it though. But nobody's paying attention because crafter-bashing is in fashion.

 

Actually.

 

This is an interesting point right here. Wouldn't this be a far better litmus test to see how equal the machine is =/= compared to running crew missions?

 

Buy 8 tokens (slightly more than the 3890 credit cost) and see what the return is?

 

Your sample size of 8 tokens, even done 20 times, is too small. You have to look at odds over a large sample set to see what's really happening.

 

Over my quite large sample set size now, broken down to the "1 stack of tokens" level, which should take less than 7 minutes to run through if you have access to 2 machines within clicking distance, and less than 5 with 3 machines.

 

You'll pay 49,500 for the tokens.

 

You will get 6.43 Confiscated Artwork, 10.04 Prohibited Medical Supplies, and 12.46 Banned Holovids which together vendor for 32,345, bringing the cost of token acquisition down to 17,155.

 

You will get 2.71 Cartel Market Certificates, each of which on my server can be turned into GTN fodder that sells for 45-65k (been doing it all weekend) but call it less than 25% of that on your server for sake of argument, 10k, so those 2.71 certs after GTN fee of 6% is 25,474, bringing the cost of tokens down to -8,319. Yeah, that negative cost is profit.

 

You also got 12.29 Jawa Junk after you made that profit. This could be turned into 12 Midlithe Crystals, 12 Doonium, 6 Autoimmune Registers, or 4 Adaptive Circuitry.

 

Please tell me how, via crafting missions, you can obtain any of those things in that quantity, with a guaranteed return, in under 7 minutes, without spending any credits to acquire them.

 

You can't even launch enough companions on the right missions to get a chance at 12 Midlithe crystals in under 7 minutes, unless the RNG that controls the mission list loves you as much as I love J-Law.

[Transcendent]

Your sample size of 8 tokens, even done 20 times, is too small. You have to look at odds over a large sample set to see what's really happening.

 

You get ~20% RNG each and every time you run a crew mission. It's not ~20% RNG over running the missions 50000 times.

 

The same applies to RNG on the slots. This is really basic stuff that you already know.

[TheGreatFrosty]

You get ~20% RNG each and every time you run a crew mission. It's not ~20% RNG over running the missions 50000 times.

 

The same applies to RNG on the slots. This is really basic stuff that you already know.

 

But the sample size is still too small to accurately reflect the 20%... it has to be a larger size to account for RNG.

[Divona]

OP everyone got the idea. If you have time and will to log into game and every day only play gambling, then yes you get a lot stacks of scraps. Will see what happens next week, but your proposal to changes are insane. If your goal was to destory this decoration functionality then this would be it. No one would bother to sit behind pc and gamble in MMO for pointless small reward.

 

Lets see what Bioware says about this. I for one not selling mats i get, I USE them all in crafting.

[Transcendent]

But the sample size is still too small to accurately reflect the 20%... it has to be a larger size to account for RNG.

 

The game's RNG chance is ~20%. Period. From what i've seen it isn't different in the case of the slots machine, including chips returns / failure rates then the fact the the RNG that SW:TOR uses remains as it was.

 

Regardless of sample size (there are plenty of example in the forums) then the RNG % still is applicable.

 

Look at it another way. We can all theorise and make assumptions based on our small sample sizes, BioWare will have a complete set of metrics to look at across the board. So that removes any outlier RNG results that may crop up (we've all had those good / bad runs in a row).

 

Doesn't matter if someone rolls 100000 chips, BioWare will still have a far clearer picture of the RNG % and the drop rates / returns. These threads are all pretty pointless as we simply don't have enough information to make accurate assumptions of what is happening.

 

What BioWare can however do, and I'll mostly agree on this point, is adjust crew mission skills to work more efficiently (both time taken / cost / ratio of returns) so that they are in line with players experiences of the Contraband slot machine.

 

Certainly not some knee jerk reaction that a few players have called for, without having a clearer picture of the true metrics involved.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Transcendent

[dscount]

The game's RNG chance is ~20%. Period. From what i've seen it isn't different in the case of the slots machine, including chips returns / failure rates then the fact the the RNG that SW:TOR uses remains as it was.

 

Regardless of sample size (there are plenty of example in the forums) then the RNG % still is applicable.

 

Look at it another way. We can all theorise and make assumptions based on our small sample sizes, BioWare will have a complete set of metrics to look at across the board. So that removes any outlier RNG results that may crop up (we've all had those good / bad runs in a row).

 

Doesn't matter if someone rolls 100000 chips, BioWare will still have a far clearer picture of the RNG % and the drop rates / returns. These threads are all pretty pointless as we simply don't have enough information to make accurate assumptions of what is happening.

 

What BioWare can however do, and I'll mostly agree on this point, is adjust crew mission skills to work more efficiently (both time taken / cost / ratio of returns) so that they are in line with players experiences of the Contraband slot machine.

 

Certainly not some knee jerk reaction that a few players have called for, without having a clearer picture of the true metrics involved.

 

Correct.. I couple pages back I did the math and posted %% for RNG on each. Apparently DATAMINED information posted on an external website we all know confirms that %% data. So it does exist. The 5,000 sample OP posted and 1,000 one I posted pretty much lined up to those numbers.

 

The REST.. is hyperbole and "what if" scenarios of doom/gloom of the economic balance. It will balance out and I'm pretty sure the slots will stay "AS-IS" based on the RNG factors alone.

 

As a crafter... I actually LOVE it... great being able to purchase 10k of mats for 400 credits each instead of 1-2k each.

Edited January 18, 2015 by dscount

[Stoofa]

So - I purchased a single Acolyte;s Shadow pack - and got the slot machine. Was tempted to see it as it seems to command a high price, but instead decided to drop it into my stronghold. My open stronghold, so anyone could stumble in and find it if they like.

Anyway, my first 99 chips gave me the following rewards:

 

Scavenged Scrap - 10

Assorted Droid Parts - 12

Jawa Junk - 9

 

Banned Holovids - 18

Prohibited Medical Supplies - 9

Confiscated Artwok - 9

 

Cartel Market Certificates - 5

 

I guess for 50k credits this shows good value for money. I'll be able to use the crafting materials and also (with a few more chips) complete the reputation with Contriband Resale Corporation.

The certificates may or may not be of use.

 

Drop rate does seem high. You win more often that you lose and only one or twice did I "spin" 2+ losses in a row, usually just one before I won again.

[SithEater]

I spent 2.5 mil on my slot machine 4 days ago and then started rolling for mats and converting the jawa junk to adaptive circuitry for augs and have not only made my money back but an extra 3 mil, and that's only playing between WZ pops. Today was my last day doing it because the augs have dropped roughly 50% in price, killing the market and its simply not worth my time anymore. Sure all the whiners who dont want to have to spend anytime at all making the easy creds to gear up their toons win, but the crafters are getting the shaft hardcore. Not to mention companion missions skills are absolutely worthless now.

[Darth-Rion]

So, are people vendoring the stuff they get from the machine, or trading then selling on the GTN?

[TiekoSora]

How do you get 1 million for a single Jawa Junk? Do you buy the most expensive (on GTN) crafting material and then put it up for sale? Just confused, because I was looking at actually using them, but if I can make some money off of this for future use, I will. And I have only burned through 150 purchased coins (not counting the ones returned on a roll) so I am not at all a whale here.

[DarthTHC]

So, are people vendoring the stuff they get from the machine, or trading then selling on the GTN?

 

Vendor the reputation tokens immediately. Unless you want the rep and can use them, then go ahead and use them until you cap your rep allotment for the week, then sell the rest.

 

Keep the scraps for later, or turn them into materials to craft. Don't turn them into materials to sell now because you'll get too little credit value for them. Wait until the machines are nerfed, then wait for the overabundance of resources from abuse to clear, THEN sell the mats.

 

If you can get at least 10k for a Personnel Decoration on GTN, use the Cartel Market Certificates to buy them and post them to GTN. Just do a few at a time, tops, for the same reason you're holding the scraps. Post-nerf, value on these will increase.

Edited January 19, 2015 by DarthTHC

[Zorvan]

Jawa junk,

no need to elaborate here but even a monkey on drugs will make at least 1 mill per purple jawa junk now add the value from blue and green ones as well.

 

 

Let's pretend I'm a monkey on drugs but with slightly less intelligence than the average, how am I going to make 1 mil+ with purple jawa junk?

 

I could care less about the casino thing, but I have tons of that jawa crap taking up space in my bank for the last year+.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Zorvan

[DarthTHC]

Let's pretend I'm a monkey on drugs but with slightly less intelligence than the average, how am I going to make 1 mil+ with purple jawa junk?

 

At what I believe to be the current pricing, you're probably going to need a lot of stacks of the stuff to get to a million credits out of it. Pretty sure that was your point?

[Zorvan]

At what I believe to be the current pricing, you're probably going to need a lot of stacks of the stuff to get to a million credits out of it. Pretty sure that was your point?

 

That's what i thought.

 

I don't craft so all the jawa crap from cartel packs and whatnot just sits around gathering dust in my bank.