I did the exploit...

[TheNahash]

Well, if that's the case, they didn't impose any sanctions for the Nephra exploit, which ran for months, so aren't they already in that situation?

 

They are.

That STILL doesn't make the people who cheated any less cheaters.

[Ruskaeth]

TL;DR: everyone breaks rules sometimes, often unknowingly, and sometimes it's not worth doing anything about; with the Ravagers exploit that's up to BW to decide. Anyone who says differently is being unrealistic.

Anyone feeling the need to point out that it's up to BW to decide is being unrealistic.

[BuriDogshin]

Wow, so much anger over something so trivial. So cheating is wrong, so that justifies your attack on his mother?

Plus, rude forum posts and harassing other players are each violations of the same Rules of Conduct that prohibits (some) exploits. Perhaps the person you are responding to thinks they get to pick and choose which parts of the Rules they needs to comply with? If so, that person is wrong. Or perhaps they just think they will get away with it ...

[Sarfux]

Is this like...the new thing to do? Cheat - admit to it, and throw it back on the devs for MAKING you do it?

 

Sounds a ton like what my 16 year old daughter uses as an argument after she's done something insanely stupid.

Welcome to the majority of how a lot of people are. Completely immature and unable to grasp the concept that they ever did anything wrong. Then when they feel they are "threatened" they admit it in a way and then saying to the other person "THEY MADE ME DO IT!!" While taking no responsibility for their actions.

[Rhyltran]

(your answer was " a lot of people complain about it we are looking").

 

What more do you want? Did you want them to give you money? Bust into tears in front of everyone telling you how badly they messed up? Say "Crap!" run out of the tour screaming "GETTING RIGHT ON IT NOW!" what more were they supposed to do? If they were working on it what more do you want other than "we are working on it?"

[Quraswren]

Well, if that's the case, they didn't impose any sanctions for the Nephra exploit, which ran for months, so aren't they already in that situation?

 

Sometimes you get a warning for breaking rules. Sometimes no one says anything.

 

Sometimes you get the full ticket. Each event is mutually exclusive and so is their punishments.

 

However, exploiting the game is always wrong. No matter what other conditions anyone tried to place around it to justify it. Exploiting the game is always wrong.

 

What BW does and the length they go to is entirely up to them but if you get banned for exploiting the game so be it. No game really needs exploiters that want to justify what they did as somehow the right things to do just to save their skins.

[BuriDogshin]

That STILL doesn't make the people who cheated any less cheaters.

I have no argument with that. But the game cheats too: I was NOT in that circle that killed me!

(My wife has a T-shirt that reads "The Computer Cheats, " and I sometimes feel like Microsoft's Hearts game does. )

[VulgarMercurius]

A lot of you people calling for bans and punishment are incredibly rude. I'm not going to say who, but I'm sure that one of you has stopped taking your anti-psychotics.

 

Also, mocking people for their limited english is hilarious as I'm sure that none of you know a second language beyond ordering from taco bell.

Edited January 14, 2015 by VulgarMercurius

[undiess]

Everyone is not getting a permaban. That is not how it works, and it not efficient. When people pirate software/movies, they don't go after the leechers. They go after those that are doing the actual sharing. Leechers don't exist without someone breaking the law and making a copyrighted product available. So, you only target those sharing/seeding.

 

Bioware's biggest problems are those that advertised and charged for it, as well as those that transfered servers to further advertise it. Without those people, the "leechers" wouldn't have even known or bothered to try. The leechers were those that just got some free gear and called it a day, maybe shared it directly with a friend so they could both directly benefit.

 

In this case, Bioware also has the ability to determine who "leeched" off of those advertising and going out of their way to make a buck with the exploit. So leechers will likely lose their gear, unless they have some magically annoying method to hiding their gear from whatever automated script Bioware will run; this is doubtful if everything is tagged thoroughly in the game.

 

tldr - Leechers are not worth the effort, at most to take away their gains. Those advertising the exploit openly for money and those that transferred characters just to further spread it are the core cause, where an example will be made.

 

As an aside, this is an image problem at this point for Bioware. I'm sure they share the blame due to leaving the exploit available AND announcing the exploit exists without having fixed it. They had multiple quick fixes they could have done (like reverting back to the loot not dropping). While this does not excuse exploiters, it is not something to ignore. It was poor decision making. If some emergency comes up you bet I'm called up and come in even on vacation or have my vacation rescheduled. It's work, it's life.

Edited January 14, 2015 by undiess

[nrevox]

This so called Exploit stuff is all BS. If all these exploits which ARE Really NOT, exploits then why the hell were they put in game by the Devs, and don't give me this BS, that the devs did this by mistake, because ppl cannot do these things by mistake, like all the Treasure boxes on Rishi.

 

Only idiots/ crybabies said they were an exploit because some ppl weren't able to get these treasure cases, or just watched stupidly by and watched while other ppl got the Treasure from the Treasure cases, and said the only idiotic word they could say about them. Yes, they called Exploit either because they are crybabies who didn't bother to try to get any of the Treasures, or were stupid enough Not to Know that the Devs put in these Treasures for the Good ppl that Pre-ordered SoR.

 

The other Exploit/ Exploits are also Not Really an Exploit when it is the Devs mistake that made it happen, either by mistake for the other couple, or put there on purpose for just some ppl to be able to use it. All these cryabies need to shut it on these few at least as it did nothing to hurt the playerbase whatsoever, with exception to Ego Butt crying.

 

I wished I could've gotten' some Treasures as well, as it seems the Devs put them there for a Christmas and Pre-order gift, that I think i'm entitled to. These stupid Ego Elitist that got their player selves hurt think that ppl should be anything fron Suspension for a week, to a full Perma-ban on those ppl. Those same ppl think that they are worth more than other players because they think grinding for a 100 hours or more for things is they only way ppl deserve to get the best of the best of things in game.

 

I say if ppl want to earn their best Treasure over hundreds of hours then they are the stupid ones, as it is self evident these ppl that think an only way to get the best Treasures in game is to waste these ppls lives that have No meaning, Nor Worth to society, because they are doing nothing good enough for society, nor for getting a Real lives of their own getting out to start getting educated enough to learn. that Life isn't playing a damm Game.

 

It's a Game ppl, get over it, unless ur only whinning is about not having the chance to get what the so-called sploiters got, when at the time those ppl were not really Exploiting.

 

If there is anything to be angry about, it should be Hackers, and how they ruin the game. And also Money sellers.

 

cheating pro tip #1. blame everyone but yourself.

[venomlash]

Can I have your stuff that doesn't get confiscated?

[ImmortalLowlife]

I'M AN EXPLOITER BAN ME IF U CAN OR REMOVE 1 CREDITS FROM MY ACCOUNT OR SOMEONE ELSE. AND DONT FORGET THING GO LIKE THAT >>>>

 

Ever heard the expression "self snitching"? That's what you've just done. Where I'm from it's considered the most idiotic thing you can do. "I broke the law....now I'm gonna get on fb, Twitter, and IG and tell everybody exactly what I did, and still manage a surprised look when the police and news cameras show up at my front door."

 

Genius.....I would ask for your stuff, but I don't wanna be anywhere close to you when BW drops tha hammer on that azz LMAO

[BuriDogshin]

So leechers will likely lose their gear, unless they have some magically annoying method to hiding their gear from whatever automated script Bioware will run; this is doubtful if everything is tagged thoroughly in the game.

Past experiences by players seeking help from CS seems to indicate that everything is not tagged thoroughly. Which, given that there is always only a finite level of database performance available, makes sense. The more you track, the more of a load you place on the servers, so you have to find a balance.

[TUXs]

I hope they permaban every person who even knew about it!!! If you asked what someone meant in Fleet chat, BAN! If you even read Fleet chat, BAN!!! Cheaters are cheaters!!! If you farmed old Ops for the elite/ultimate comms, I want you banned too! You knew that was a bug, but you did it anyway. If you have ever lost aggro by running past a mob, BAN! You bypassed them knowingly and are a cheater looking to take the easy way out. We have no room in our glass house for cheaters like you!!!

[BuriDogshin]

I did the exploit as well. Please just give us the punishment ... so I can go back to playing SWTOR in some fashion or another without having to worry about this ... guillotine placed over my head.

Maybe having that guillotine over your head for a week is part of your punishment.

[tuncu]

1. GSF and alacrity first exploid i learn i "did not enter queue" because i thing it will be harass ppl.

 

2. Ability delay/lag annoying. Did you try to level up with your alts at belsavis. (I did some change at my system wifi to cable for some 2-3ms gain)

 

3. 3-4 time enter WZ first impression of me ohhh i get a lot of bolster then i learn you are getting bolster becouse of your ship is nice.Then stop entering WZ it will be harass ppl.

 

5. Lockboxes first day droped avarage is 30K (This is design problem) People who know about it farmed lockboxes.

 

6. Level 55-60 rishi and yavin leveling is not well designed. If you start from 55 with side quest and main quest you will hit 59.5. Then go to oricon and cz for leveling.

 

7. Do you know untill yesterday doing level 55 Hardmode flashpoints more logical then 60 flashpoints.

 

8. Did you try to heal healing challenge at Raptus.

 

9. Did you finish ToS or Ravager with pug group?

 

10. Did you know some of guild did not take dps/heal for new operations who are not wearing heavy armor.

 

11. Yesterday also someone mention about people reported raveger exploit on test server. Thats mean almost 8 week they know about it and do nothing.

 

And i'm telling that way, past month that what i did "i sit in guild ship, do some craft and level 55 content, do some companion mainhand/offhand". Now they come publish a patch then start to say we will do some action. Where were you past one month and some one said "dont play with our ıntelligence", that not me bro/sis playing with your ıntelligence, not me. If you thing im cheater im cheater dont care.

[Pagy]

Slightly off-topic:

There is a simple reason for that, too. If MMO companies started to only release new stuff after extensive testing and bugfixes and testing again and so on, we'd see a new ops once every two years or so. The same players complaing about the bugs would then complain about the lack of content. Even smartphone apps and LoB software have bugs. Compared to these a game like SWTOR is so complex that bugs are not only inevitable but to be fully expected. There are so many variables that it's just impossible to test and fix everything while sticking to planned release dates.

 

If there are bugs in the game it's ok to use a workaround (either official, like /stuck when really stuck, or inofficial like switching instances as was the case with the meat tree on Rishi). It's not ok to exploit those bugs when they go against the devs' intentions. "Taxes are too high, so it's ok to cheat on taxes." Has that ever worked in front of a judge?

the devs can't label something an egregious exploit and then drag their heels for 3 weeks on fixing it. these are two positions in direct contradiction.

 

bw is jerking everyone around now...the people that exploited, the people that didnt...community mgmt fail 101.

[branmakmuffin]

the devs can't label something an egregious exploit and then drag their heels for 3 weeks on fixing it.

Of course they can. It's their game.

[Grayseven]

All these cheaters using self righteous indignation as a defense tactic are tiresome. You cheated. Bioware has your number. Now you get to wait and see if the banhammer is coming. So uncomfortable to wait, no?

 

On a related note, I start to wonder at the omniscience Eric touted in his latest post. I wonder if that was said just to get you guys to panic. I mean, they say they don't want to have to track extra data about players but they know exactly who cheated and how many times and what loot they got? They can track all that but can't add little character features? I dunno if I buy it.

 

Tracking metrics are easy and have probably been in the game since launch. New things take time.

 

Games have to launch with the tools that enable them to catch cheaters. These are not things added into the game later. They will go through the upgrade processes just like everything else and new tools will get developed in the never ending battle to catch cheaters...it's just not something you'll see in the patch notes.

 

But I agree with you on the cheaters. I laugh my backside off every time someone tries to justify their cheating by trying to throw the blame back on the game.

 

What is really sad is that these are the same people who enter the adult working world and make life difficult for people they work with. While everyone else does their job the way it's supposed to be done, these type spend enormous amounts of energy trying to do as little as possible and when caught try to deflect the blame onto others or back on the company. As a Commiteeman I had to deal with grievances from jokers like this who broke the rules and then gave BS excuses when the consequences came back to bite them.

 

If you can't play a game without cheating or following the rules, real life is going to come as a rude shock to some of these people.

[Jaijoles]

[...] and don't give me this BS, that the devs did this by mistake, because ppl cannot do these things by mistake, like all the Treasure boxes on Rishi.

 

[...]

 

The other Exploit/ Exploits are also Not Really an Exploit when it is the Devs mistake that made it happen, either by mistake for the other couple,

 

 

I don't comment a lot on the forums, but I saw these two sentences in MandFlurry's post and had to snip it down for everyone to see.

[Drockter]

Well they said they would take action in about a week so next week you'll know. Still, it doesn't mean everybody gets a permaban. Some people probably will, others might get warnings and/or suspensions.

 

This

 

While there are a lot people calling for others heads... I don't think there will be a ton of permabans. As others have pointed out there are degrees to which the rules were abused.

 

Looking at Erics 2 posts... the exploit spread faster and grew large enough that they needed to say something. Now, I wont get into fabricating numbers... but that says something to me.

 

In his second post, he commented that the had all the data and had identified the "few" that took undue advantage. Now again, I am not going to start fabricating numbers. I honestly don't think they want to permaban loads of people... the few (whatever that translates to) that took "undue advantage", thats probably different. Maybe the few are the "Exploiter 0's". The ones that discovered it, then started the spread (jumping servers to spread it there as well). Who knows...

 

I believe those that were the most heavy offenders have something to worry about as far as bans (be it permanent or temporary). Since Eric commented on schematics, credits, and such... there will most likely be a gear/cred/schematic destruction process.

 

Rather than a ban hammer, I am hoping for some surgical precision that removes the bad part, but leaves the whole intact.

[TUXs]

You're confusing "strongly defending the actual exploiters" with "put off by the gross over-reaction and baying for blood and mob mentality of the outraged".

There's no difference to them Max. You're either with them, or against them. BLOOD!!! THEY DEMAND BLOOD!

 

This is the most heinous act imaginable to them...their addiction to this game is so great that they're unable to remain rational about what this was...a bug. They liken this to real life crime for God's sake...it's freaking nuts if you ask me.

[Pagy]

That argument is based on the presumption that all raiders exploited which I doubt is the case. Only BW has the raw data of who exploited and who didn't and I suspect that BW punishing the exploiters would not result in all the raiders disappearing overnight. I suspect that those who did leave because of punishment for their cheating would find their positions filled in due time.

 

I spent 4 years in a realm first guild in WoW before I finally came to the realization of how unhealthy the obsessive compulsive drive to stay at the top of your game really is, so I can understand both sides but I felt the urge to join in this conversation simply because of some of the comments from raiders making themselves out as special snowflakes and crucial to the community. Consider my comments as playing devils advocate in that I am pointing out that some people are not as special as they like to think they are.

 

-=edit=- it's also of note to point out that the end tier gear is not needed in the slightest to see and enjoy 95%-99% of the game.

i think you're focusing too much on the quantity of the players (hardcore vs casual) and not understanding the impact of losing players that are always online would have on casual players. casuals may not go to the playground as often as some other people, but if they show up at the playground on their random schedule and no one is there...they'll find another playground.

[Pagy]

Of course they can. It's their game.

sure, i was operating under the premise that bw wants people to continue playing, i guess that is a wild assumption on part.

[Krensky]

I KILLED. I CHEATED. I MAIMED.

 

^^ And NOT in that order specifically.

 

Please, don't "arrest" me. I'll be a good boy from now on.

 

 

Pro tip:

 

Loot, then burn.