BrianDavion Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 let he who is without sin cast the first stone says it all *throws a stone* I've never exploited before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 let he who is without sin cast the first stone says it all Using that logic, no one should ever be held accountable for any rule or law violation. Anywhere. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 When you walk into a cinema and encounter a disturbing element, you can't force them [the thater owner] to change it. It's within their own discretion how and when they deal with it. If you're not contend with the way it was handled, you can move away. Well said. And don't expect a ticket refund if you watched half the show before you walked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 *throws a stone* I've never exploited before so you are a moral failure other than exploiting... denial isnt just a river in egypt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druuj Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I appreciate the action, but I have to say I find it somewhat disheartening that you evidently didn't go to nearly as thorough depths for abuse of the ranked seasons system. Blatant win trading, people /stucking and throwing games and all kinds of that stuff went completely ignored. Heck, you could look at the ranked leaderboard right now and see who blatantly win traded just by who has the minimum required rating for the highest tier, and yet they had no action taken against them whatsoever. Or the Nefra exploit. Or other exploits. Or imo the Rishi datacrons Piggyback system. 1 guy does the work, 60 get the datacrons? how's that for fairness? and that is not a gear upgrade which will eventually get obsolete, its a permament buff on your stats for as long as the servers stand. In that sense, its far worse than ALL the gear/money exploits put together. But I guess people don't whine about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think I could answer a few general questions, from my perspective (which means this is my opinion). 1) This "exploit" harms very few game wise if any directly. 2) Any amount of bannings would certainly reduce revenue....how much is speculative. It is likely very little. 3) This is likely not as widespread as some folks contend, but probably more so than other exploits from the past. 4) It is unlikely it had any real effect on the economy. However, there was an effect. 5) One should always follow the rules they are aware of. Purposefully violating the rules is not excusable under any circumstances. 6) Bioware probably shares part of the blame for this exploits use and popularity over the past 6 weeks. 7) Some folks feel strongly about following the rules. They should not be derided for this view. 8) Some folks feel strongly this is not that big of a deal and Bioware should practice some restraint. Folks also should not be derided for this view. 9) Folks that make toxic or extreme statements/threats either against the exploiters or in defense of them should be completely ignored, as they are not the voices of reason and probably represent the worst choices with respect to action. 10) Bioware will decide the fate of those that participated. They are within their rights to do so. The community does not make this decision, and therefore does not need to be convinced. 11) Bioware did not force anyone to take advantage of this exploit. No one, to my knowledge, forced Bioware to ignore it for as long as they have. But we are talking about 6 weeks, not 6 months. It would be odd to campaign for leniency based on time for something that has been in place for a month and a half IMO. If you exploited, own it. Do not attempt to blame anyone or anything but your own choices. However, if you wish to justify that choice, or indicate it is not wrong you can certainly make that contention if you wish, with the understanding that you will pay for what you have done based on whatever action Bioware determines is prudent. I for one wish this could be resolved to the satisfaction of all, but unfortunately that is impossible at this point....well, probably pretty unlikely at any point realistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spamfritter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I think I could answer a few general questions, from my perspective (which means this is my opinion). 1) This "exploit" harms very few game wise if any directly. 2) Any amount of bannings would certainly reduce revenue....how much is speculative. It is likely very little. 3) This is likely not as widespread as some folks contend, but probably more so than other exploits from the past. 4) It is unlikely it had any real effect on the economy. However, there was an effect. 5) One should always follow the rules they are aware of. Purposefully violating the rules is not excusable under any circumstances. 6) Bioware probably shares part of the blame for this exploits use and popularity over the past 6 weeks. 7) Some folks feel strongly about following the rules. They should not be derided for this view. 8) Some folks feel strongly this is not that big of a deal and Bioware should practice some restraint. Folks also should not be derided for this view. 9) Folks that make toxic or extreme statements/threats either against the exploiters or in defense of them should be completely ignored, as they are not the voices of reason and probably represent the worst choices with respect to action. 10) Bioware will decide the fate of those that participated. They are within their rights to do so. The community does not make this decision, and therefore does not need to be convinced. 11) Bioware did not force anyone to take advantage of this exploit. No one, to my knowledge, forced Bioware to ignore it for as long as they have. But we are talking about 6 weeks, not 6 months. It would be odd to campaign for leniency based on time for something that has been in place for a month and a half IMO. If you exploited, own it. Do not attempt to blame anyone or anything but your own choices. However, if you wish to justify that choice, or indicate it is not wrong you can certainly make that contention if you wish, with the understanding that you will pay for what you have done based on whatever action Bioware determines is prudent. I for one wish this could be resolved to the satisfaction of all, but unfortunately that is impossible at this point....well, probably pretty unlikely at any point realistically. I think there is one and only one case for leniency. BioWare has never punished people for the use of major exploits in the past. People who used the exploit had reasonable cause to believe that no punishment would be dealt out for doing so now. The Nefra, Dashroode, PvP exploits etc. have in some cases gone on for months. People have literally been getting away with these exploits for YEARS without consequence. Why should they have expected different this time? And I truly believe that a huge percentage of the subscriber population on Harbinger used it. I'd see tons of people hanging around the Revenite vendors buying gear every day since the exploit became widespread and inspecting them all I could see the 16 man HM achievement with nothing else having been done prior to that boss. I've run in several PUGs since the exploit came out and found a quarter to half the people in 16 man groups to have all done it. It's in BioWare's best interests to down play the extent this bug was exploited but I for one do not believe it was just a few people. If they ban people for this the handful of people left on Harbinger can pop a pet out and run around fleet "I am Legend" style. Edited January 15, 2015 by Spamfritter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wait.. what? Punish the 2nd level of people, not the first? Sorry, but (to me) that makes no sense... it is the first person (regardless of guild association) that invited anyone else to their lockout. Using your ebola reference... that would be like letting patient 0 run wild around the neighborhood, while only quarantining those they infected? So the members of Zorz didn't have the choice on whether or not to spread it? EDIT FTR: I have no idea, and really dont't care, who Zorz is... you don't know if the member of Zorz was tricked into giving the lockout but the person that got it from them wasn't lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzraFett Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you exploited, own it. Do not attempt to blame anyone or anything but your own choices. However, if you wish to justify that choice, or indicate it is not wrong you can certainly make that contention if you wish, with the understanding that you will pay for what you have done based on whatever action Bioware determines is prudent. I for one wish this could be resolved to the satisfaction of all, but unfortunately that is impossible at this point....well, probably pretty unlikely at any point realistically. I agree, very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayris Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) You know its pretty sad when the people at the top feel the need to punish people for their mistakes:, negligence, and or incompetence. Bioware...you knew about this exploit as far back as the PTS, and you consciously " CHOSE " to do nothing about it. What did you honestly think was going to happen? You can site Code of Conduct and Terms of Service all you want, it still your fault, you perpetuated the problem by letting it be. What you should have done was shut it down and patched it immediately. But no not you,... You left it alone. I know a lot of people that play this game, and a number of them, who are subscribers, myself included; will stop spending REAL MONEY if any action is taken. We can go back to playing WoW or one the many other games we were playing before you came along. Don't alienate the people who pay to be here, over the ones crying about an exploit they could not use because they are Free To Play people. And if you take action you are also hypocrites, as you did absolutely nothing to anyone who used the Nefra NiM exploit last time around...... Jayris Hey folks, Let’s talk a bit about the Ravager’s exploit. There are two stages to the process of removing an exploit and handling actions for players who participated. Stage 1 – fix the issue and ensure players can no longer partake in the exploit. That change is out as of today in patch 3.0.2. Stage 2 – With the exploit removed, we can work towards finalizing our data review and assigning appropriate actions. We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering. We are still reviewing the data and determining the appropriate action for those who took undue advantage of the exploit. We won’t be taking action today, but we’ll wrap it up in the next week or so. On the plus side, most players didn't partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did. It may seem silly to thank you for not using an exploit, but we really appreciate you taking the time to raise our awareness of the issue through a variety of channels. It demonstrates your commitment to the game and to keeping the game fun, and fair for everyone. So thank you for not using the exploit. -eric Edited January 15, 2015 by Jayris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 SNIP.... I for one wish this could be resolved to the satisfaction of all, but unfortunately that is impossible at this point....well, probably pretty unlikely at any point realistically. At this point it is impossible. Way to many that think exploiting the game is and was 100% OK. However, if you are a gamer at all, you know it wasn't the right thing to do. Doesn't matter human nature, length of time BW did or said nothing or what they did or didn't do in the past. Exploiting video games in the MMO genera has the potential to get you punished. You may get a warning at one time and a ban the next time. I doubt there is a fix set of rules for it. It's all up to BW because at this point there is no way to satisfy both sides of the gaming populace where exploiters are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 You know its pretty sad when the people at the top feel the need to punish people for their mistakes:, negligence, and or incompetence. Bioware...you knew about this exploit as far back as the PTS, and you consciously " CHOSE " to do nothing about it. What did you honestly think was going to happen? You can site Code of Conduct and Terms of Service all you want, it still your fault, you perpetuated the problem by letting it be. What you should have done was shut it down and patched it immediately. But no not you,... You left it alone. I know a lot of people that play this game, and a number of them, who are subscribers, myself included; will stop spending REAL MONEY if any action is taken. We can go back to playing WoW or one the many other games we were playing before you came along. Don't alienate the people who pay to be here, over the ones crying about an exploit they could not use because they are Free To Play people. And if you take action you are also hypocrites, as you did absolutely nothing to anyone who used the Nefra NiM exploit last time around...... Jayris Great post also what about the Win Trading in S3 I can tell you now reports were made and no action was taken on either report and that's a fact. This game won't survive the next 3 years if they continue on with the lazy laid back style and drip feeding stale content cycles from the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVengeant Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) 60 pages and people still going on about this. MOVE ON!!!! Seriously. Who CARES. If you really care so much about something that didn't even affect you, it certainly didn't affect me that people did it nor do I fraking care, then I suggest some serious counseling. I am sick of reading about this on gen chat and forums. It's over, the glitch was fixed....move on. It's only a video game. Edited January 15, 2015 by DarthVengeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 At this point it is impossible. Way to many that think exploiting the game is and was 100% OK. However, if you are a gamer at all, you know it wasn't the right thing to do. Doesn't matter human nature, length of time BW did or said nothing or what they did or didn't do in the past. Exploiting video games in the MMO genera has the potential to get you punished. You may get a warning at one time and a ban the next time. I doubt there is a fix set of rules for it. Some of us aren't so much 100% OK with it, as we're 100% disgusted with the completely disproportionate reaction from others, orders of magnitude out of scope for what happened and any effects it had on the actual game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banthabreeder Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hey folks, ...On the plus side, most players didn't partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did. -eric They did a straw pole on http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor and it showed basically 1/3 of the player base did the exploit. I wouldn't consider that just a 'few'. Sure will be interesting what Bioware does since they are partially to blame for sloppy programing and allowing this to continue for as long as they did. Here's the poll http://strawpoll.me/3401660 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 They did a straw pole on http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor and it showed basically 1/3 of the player base did the exploit. I wouldn't consider that just a 'few'. Sure will be interesting what Bioware does since they are partially to blame for sloppy programing and allowing this to continue for as long as they did. Here's the poll http://strawpoll.me/3401660 1/3 of the players who read reddit and answered the poll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 60 pages and people still going on about this. MOVE ON!!!! Seriously. Who CARES. If you really care so much about something that didn't even affect you, it certainly didn't affect me that people did it nor do I fraking care, then I suggest some serious counseling. I am sick of reading about this on gen chat and forums. It's over, the glitch was fixed....move on. It's only a video game. I keep coming back in at the last page to see how much vitriol is hanging around. You know what I really hope happens? Bans for everyone who participated, time to be determined by number of offenses, but NOT forum bans. I really want to see what happens then. I better go make the popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Some of us aren't so much 100% OK with it, as we're 100% disgusted with the completely disproportionate reaction from others, orders of magnitude out of scope for what happened and any effects it had on the actual game. And thats fine but ultimately futile. If you exploit the game, don't be shocked if you get banned. Like I said, if you are a gamer at all in the MMO world, you know it's a possibly and seeing gamers request exploiters get banned should not be a surprise either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 1/3 of the players who read reddit and answered the poll... The poll itself is likely biased in a way that makes the number who exploited lower than the poll results for that subreddit's readers. Even if anonymous (which is far from guaranteed on the Internet, at least as far as linking their Reddit account to the poll) people do not like to admit to others when they have done something unethical. This is a constant problem with polling for people's behaviors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 1/3 of the players who read reddit and answered the poll... Bingo... a majority of the players do not visit the official forums, probably less than that frequent reddit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 And thats fine but ultimately futile. If you exploit the game, don't be shocked if you get banned. Like I said, if you are a gamer at all in the MMO world, you know it's a possibly and seeing gamers request exploiters get banned should not be a surprise either. I hope you get your wish. I hope they ban every player who may have possibly benefited from this bug/exploit. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them!!!! Not because I think it's fair, but because I think it's funny how little impact you suspect it may have. I'd love to see bans...perma bans at that. I think that would teach a lot of people a lesson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think there is one and only one case for leniency. BioWare has never punished people for the use of major exploits in the past. . Emphasis added. Incorrect.... google is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Some of us aren't so much 100% OK with it, as we're 100% disgusted with the completely disproportionate reaction from others, orders of magnitude out of scope for what happened and any effects it had on the actual game. Exactly Max...some people have completely lost perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 They did a straw pole on http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor and it showed basically 1/3 of the player base did the exploit. I wouldn't consider that just a 'few'. Sure will be interesting what Bioware does since they are partially to blame for sloppy programing and allowing this to continue for as long as they did. Here's the poll http://strawpoll.me/3401660 ... 1812 total votes ... doesn't really say much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeiphoVH Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 *throws a stone* I've never exploited before I do believe that verse means that even though you havent sinned, throwing the first stone is still not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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