Assault on Tython HM killing PVE groupfinder.

[demotivator]

tython hm is...easy.

Everything is easy when you're bragging anonymously on the internet.

 

Honestly except for the first boss that is broken on the pub side (though you can easily work around it) the rest of the flashpoint is far from hard. It's the easiest of the new HMs. Even the bonus boss is a joke.

Edited January 1, 2015 by demotivator

[NecroMayre]

what about it is bugged?

 

taking a FP out of rotation because some group of terribles can't do it is far worse for the game. this reminds me of the people whining about the archon fight. its easy...people need to get better.

I assure u I can DPS it down before the soft enrage.

 

It has a 3 minute timer, and the timer ticks down while it is shooting mines.

So you actually have like a minute and a half to dps it down which is completely possible, however don't expect a pug group to be able to do it. Also I was complaining about this fight being harder as a healer where I can't control the dps and have to heal through extermination mode.

 

Anyways the only bug is on AoT republic side where the two right side shields don't go down so you gotta avoid the orbital strikes until they go down automatically.

It is still really easy just people can't avoid the orbital strikes for some reason.

Edited January 1, 2015 by NecroMayre

[Rafaman]

Wait, wait, wait... this always happens when new FP HMs are introduced. The simple fact of the matter is that no one, or hardly anyone is over geared and the mechanics are much more important. And so, it is in fact more of a struggle to get through, but the idea is that you are gearing up as you go and people are learning how to manage the mechanics and the flashpoint.

 

No. This is not a casual vs. hardcore issue at all. It is quite simply what happens when new content with any degree difficulty is introduced. Nerfing the FP is not the answer. Teach and learning is.

 

The idea that there should be casual friendly PFs available tactical or otherwise is fine. But the game has to maintain some level of difficulty and reward for skill for players, yes even casual ones to be interested. The story can only take you so far, then it has to be about the challenges and rewards.

 

BTW, making solo mode tacticals doesn't help the grouping situation at all. In fact, it does quite the opposite when players go in expecting easy mode and are stopped dead in their tracks literally because they don't know the mechanics.

 

No more nerfs. Learn to swim.

[HiltoftheDragon]

Anyone gotten the walker yet? I think it's time I start farming this bad boy.

 

There is nothing to farm. You'll find, as others have, that one time is quite enough.

[HiltoftheDragon]

Wait, wait, wait... this always happens when new FP HMs are introduced. The simple fact of the matter is that no one, or hardly anyone is over geared and the mechanics are much more important. And so, it is in fact more of a struggle to get through, but the idea is that you are gearing up as you go and people are learning how to manage the mechanics and the flashpoint.

 

No. This is not a casual vs. hardcore issue at all. It is quite simply what happens when new content with any degree difficulty is introduced. Nerfing the FP is not the answer. Teach and learning is.

 

The idea that there should be casual friendly PFs available tactical or otherwise is fine. But the game has to maintain some level of difficulty and reward for skill for players, yes even casual ones to be interested. The story can only take you so far, then it has to be about the challenges and rewards.

 

BTW, making solo mode tacticals doesn't help the grouping situation at all. In fact, it does quite the opposite when players go in expecting easy mode and are stopped dead in their tracks literally because they don't know the mechanics.

 

No more nerfs. Learn to swim.

 

^^ This 100x over ^^

Edited January 1, 2015 by HiltoftheDragon

[AardvarkTongue]

Wait, wait, wait... this always happens when new FP HMs are introduced. The simple fact of the matter is that no one, or hardly anyone is over geared and the mechanics are much more important. And so, it is in fact more of a struggle to get through, but the idea is that you are gearing up as you go and people are learning how to manage the mechanics and the flashpoint.

 

No. This is not a casual vs. hardcore issue at all. It is quite simply what happens when new content with any degree difficulty is introduced. Nerfing the FP is not the answer. Teach and learning is.

 

The idea that there should be casual friendly PFs available tactical or otherwise is fine. But the game has to maintain some level of difficulty and reward for skill for players, yes even casual ones to be interested. The story can only take you so far, then it has to be about the challenges and rewards.

 

BTW, making solo mode tacticals doesn't help the grouping situation at all. In fact, it does quite the opposite when players go in expecting easy mode and are stopped dead in their tracks literally because they don't know the mechanics.

 

No more nerfs. Learn to swim.

 

Your post makes entirely too much sense. Are you a wizard?

[Jonathanx]

Wait, wait, wait... this always happens when new FP HMs are introduced. The simple fact of the matter is that no one, or hardly anyone is over geared and the mechanics are much more important. And so, it is in fact more of a struggle to get through, but the idea is that you are gearing up as you go and people are learning how to manage the mechanics and the flashpoint.

 

No. This is not a casual vs. hardcore issue at all. It is quite simply what happens when new content with any degree difficulty is introduced. Nerfing the FP is not the answer. Teach and learning is.

 

The idea that there should be casual friendly PFs available tactical or otherwise is fine. But the game has to maintain some level of difficulty and reward for skill for players, yes even casual ones to be interested. The story can only take you so far, then it has to be about the challenges and rewards.

 

BTW, making solo mode tacticals doesn't help the grouping situation at all. In fact, it does quite the opposite when players go in expecting easy mode and are stopped dead in their tracks literally because they don't know the mechanics.

 

No more nerfs. Learn to swim.

 

Agreed except the fights should at least be 95% working properly in order for players to properly learn.

[jedip_enguin]

I agree that they really should have fixed rep side Tython by now but that wont change the issue that 4 man HMs arent worth the effort even when they are working.

 

The loot is bad, the rewards are bad and the FPs themselves are short and as dull as dishwater, with most of the challenge being your ability to put up with frustratingly frequent stuns/cc's or aggro dumps that make tanking lose any sense that you are actually controlling the fight.

 

iMO The game reallyneeds some all new 4 man HM stuff with the kind of polish we saw from D7 or Kaon/LI but I suspect all we'll get is more stun happy coma inducing 'Tactical' flashpoints (named ironically due to their utter lack of required tactics)

 

I would tank 4 man HMs purely for a laugh prior to 3.0 but nowadays I need to be dragged, and for somebody who has played as long as I have thats kinda sad.

 

Cest la vie' at least OPs are still fun for now.

[Jonathanx]

I agree that they really should have fixed rep side Tython by now but that wont change the issue that 4 man HMs arent worth the effort even when they are working.

 

The loot is bad, the rewards are bad and the FPs themselves are short and as dull as dishwater, with most of the challenge being your ability to put up with frustratingly frequent stuns/cc's or aggro dumps that make tanking lose any sense that you are actually controlling the fight.

 

iMO The game reallyneeds some all new 4 man HM stuff with the kind of polish we saw from D7 or Kaon/LI but I suspect all we'll get is more stun happy coma inducing 'Tactical' flashpoints (named ironically due to their utter lack of required tactics)

 

I would tank 4 man HMs purely for a laugh prior to 3.0 but nowadays I need to be dragged, and for somebody who has played as long as I have thats kinda sad.

 

Cest la vie' at least OPs are still fun for now.

 

Short fps are good too imo only because operations can take a lot of time I think thats balanced, but of course new content would be better. The stuns im fine with I can purge all incapacitating and movement-impairing effects with a cooldown move, but the aggro dumps especially the last boss on Manaan is aggravating. When I taunt tor guardian leap on my guardian there are times where I don't get aggro back until 15 seconds later.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Jonathanx

[harpuax]

L2Play noob! Isn't that how we are supposed to work? Did it work? has it ever worked? I mean people have been saying it for years, why hasn't everyone learned to play yet? When will they start?

[TicTicTic]

[

 

Since you said this will make you quit the game, let me wish you the best of luck on your next MMO that makes you run content you don't like to get the rewards you want.

 

I say this once more slowly. I do not drop but a large % of pub side healers drop. The only time I have dropped is after the 3rd wipe that I exited combat with 2k hp left for the 3rd time being last man standing. The tank made a comment that people need to stay in fight for people to get back.

 

I said this isn't happening and dropped. I play content but heals dropping at start is a big problem dps dropping is no problem but if a large section of heals wont do a flashpoint it makes q times longer then the other classes drop off.

 

This is my fav MMO out at the moment, lik e I said I m letting sub go when it runs out and going to play Pillars and other non MMO games. I might give Star Citizen a try.

 

MMO's making their games a chore are getting old, if they make the chore annoying why pay money to be frustrated?

[BrianDavion]

I'm not sure if the new flashpoints are bugged or if BW is just repeating the same mistake they made with lost island

[Zoom_VI]

yes it did!!...... and it was WONDERFUL to finally experience all of the stories :)

 

It sucks to only be able to experience FP up to (but not including) Collicoid Wargames solo.

 

There are very good reasons why this pop is disappearing ,at least from my perspective, but that would be an entirely different thread.

 

The problem with tacticals is that they actually deincentivize the majority of endgame by giving methods around it. There is a common trend in gaming populations to always take the easiest route, as long as tacticals offer the same FPs as HMs, people will never do HMs since they can just do tacticals.

 

This is detrimental since tacticals do not introduce players to the group play that is required to keep players active at endgame. If anything tacticals are no different than solo modes only with three companions. In tacticals you never see much of dynamic cooperation in the group, hell most of the time nobody even says anything.

[Pietrastor]

Wait, wait, wait... this always happens when new FP HMs are introduced.

Not really. With the exception of bugged shackles in Cedmimu, 2.0 new HM Flashpoints and Operations were properly tuned, all bosses. 3.0 group-finder content is going right back to Kaon/LI/EC level. Of course amazing elite NiM players will clear everything but that's not the point, the difficulty needs to be resonable in a non-voice-chat complete-strangers environment of the Group Finder. So yeah, let's hope they invite more than just NiM players for next closed beta

[ndursinger]

The problem with tacticals is that they actually deincentivize the majority of endgame by giving methods around it. There is a common trend in gaming populations to always take the easiest route, as long as tacticals offer the same FPs as HMs, people will never do HMs since they can just do tacticals.

 

This is detrimental since tacticals do not introduce players to the group play that is required to keep players active at endgame. If anything tacticals are no different than solo modes only with three companions. In tacticals you never see much of dynamic cooperation in the group, hell most of the time nobody even says anything.

 

In response to your reply to my quote :

 

Yes, it was really nice to finally play those fp. What you claim, and others, is actually wrong for my situation...and possibly other casuals as well. I have 11 characters from level 13 to level 60 both pub and imp. I have been here since launch and I play when there's time between real life priorities. This game is nothing more than entertainment to me that I find better than TV or internet browsing for winding down at the end of a 12 hr work day. I have absolutely NO social points, never had interest in PVP,Ops, or any part of this MMO that involves the necessity of another player for one HUGE reason.............Maturity of the population as a represented whole marred by a minority and accepted by a majority.

 

All you have to do is read this forum,....elitest end gamer better than any noob attitudes instead of helping someone get better. Then there are the "can i haz ur stuffs" people. The ever lovely ninja looters and gankers. The entitlement screamers ..............................and I get a chance to get lumped in with that level of intelligence and lack of honor to play group? No thank you.

 

When I found out that this game (the previously rumored KOTOR3)was to be an MMO over at some old SW forum, I swore it off. Then my little brother gave it to me and I figured ....what the hell,why not . I like the game enough to have done as much as I have and I will continue to play on alone . The only way that will change is IF!......and I mean IF! the maturity level was higher, I would not think twice about doing group activities and if it changes one day, I (and possibly other casuals) might actually give it a chance as well.

[demotivator]

Not really. With the exception of bugged shackles in Cedmimu, 2.0 new HM Flashpoints and Operations were properly tuned, all bosses. 3.0 group-finder content is going right back to Kaon/LI/EC level. Of course amazing elite NiM players will clear everything but that's not the point, the difficulty needs to be resonable in a non-voice-chat complete-strangers environment of the Group Finder. So yeah, let's hope they invite more than just NiM players for next closed beta

 

Except that there was nothing wrong with Lost Island (I am not even sure why are you mentioning Kaon). Nothing wrong at all.

 

If simple mechanics are a challenge to you that's your problem. How hard was it to drop a circle away from the tank and to avoid lava? How hard was it to run under a boss and then click a console? Etc. Are you calling this challenging? The only difficulty could have been your DPS being lackluster especially with the tanks when fighting Lorick (but the same could be said with the droid from Korriban, if your DPS suck you're going to hit the soft enrage and bad things are going to happen).

 

Heck I even manage to PUG the bonus boss of Manaan. As long as people know the mechanics and understand them you don't need voice chat communication.

 

It is not a problem with the FPs being turned too hard but with the players being more stupid and clueless the more they are fed things like Tacticals and now solo modes that require no strategy and where mistakes are very forgivable. It is even worse now because people think they know the new HMs since they have run the Tactical version except most people totally ignored the mechanics back then... if they were even aware there were mechanics. For instance I can't tell how many times I have to ask the DPS to kill the Rakata chief first because people seem to think that it makes more sense to kill the Rancor that has more HP and to leave the one boss that can't be taunted and that keeps rooting you for the end, simply because in Tactical it changed nothing whether you killed him first or not (except even in Tact. it makes more sense to kill the Chief first while you keep the rancor in a corner since he has less HP and can't be taunted).

Edited January 2, 2015 by demotivator

[LordArtemis]

HMs are detrimental to themselves. Poor rewards are part of the problem, a poorly behaved playerbase is likely the other part.

 

If you want players to join HMs, you do not remove the only paths that may interest casuals...you encourage them.

 

Solo and tactical versions of flashpoints provide a reasonable line of training for a casual player, to get them used to what they may face in SM (and eventually HM) and learn how to play in a more tactical way.

 

In fact I believe solo and tactical versions of current flashpoints is the only way that HMs will survive in this game. Otherwise, eventually I expect the ques will dwindle to nothing due to a toxic hardcore community.

 

It is actually the players of the hardcore content that are killing that content IMO.

[ndursinger]

..........................................It is not a problem with the FPs being turned too hard but with the players being more stupid and clueless ...........................

 

If anyone has ever proven that their forum name is a good description of how they will act....its this guy

[Drockter]

I have to agree, that at least on my server (JC), HM FPS take for-freaking-ever to pop.

 

My problem is not with the difficulty of the FP. It is difficult... the issue (I see) is that people are unwilling to learn and keep trying.

 

Got Tython HM last night... first death... Start to discuss tactics/strat... tank leaves. No comment, no discussion, just leaves. A replacement was never found. Not the first time. As a healer, it is a bit aggravating to be called out for not healing when others are standing in the Orbital Strikes, and not moving.

 

Personally, I like that HM is, well.... Hard. What I do mind, are people who just up and quit, or refuse to believe that they could have any culpability.

 

I don't want any nerfs, I'll just go back to building teams before queuing.

[Tsillah]

I avoid HM FP's altogether unless guildies really need a healer. Why? Not because of difficulty but because the loot is crap. I just have no incentive to go there in the first place.

[Jonathanx]

If anyone has ever proven that their forum name is a good description of how they will act....its this guy

 

:p

[Zoom_VI]

Solo and tactical versions of flashpoints provide a reasonable line of training for a casual player, to get them used to what they may face in SM (and eventually HM) and learn how to play in a more tactical way.

 

The problem is you don't need a tutorial for SM. The problem is that in the current game players don't hit any kind of challenge until they hit the max level HM FPs.

 

Used to be before all the leveling bonuses, and KDY, most players would do most of the Flashpoints while leveling, so when they hit endgame they had already experienced things like Red Reaper and Colicoid, and they knew that there was types of content where you at least had to do the mechanics right or you would die.

 

The problem with the current iteration is until players hit the HM FPs they won't have experienced any type of content where you legitimately have to do it right if you want to clear it. Because of this player's don't improve while they leveled, which was something you had to do in vanilla, so when they hit level 60 they are completely and utterly unprepared for endgame content.

 

They don't need to make HM FPs easier, they need to make tacticals harder. If you don't kill the adds on KDY's droid boss, you should wipe, if you don't kill the paired bosses in Battle of Rishi at the same time, the enrage should wipe the group.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[branmakmuffin]

Honestly except for the first boss that is broken on the pub side (though you can easily work around it) the rest of the flashpoint is far from hard. It's the easiest of the new HMs. Even the bonus boss is a joke.

Again, everything is easy when you're bragging anonymously on the internet.

 

But who knows, when I finally get around to it. I might find it relatively easy, too.

[Arkerus]

HMs are detrimental to themselves. Poor rewards are part of the problem, a poorly behaved playerbase is likely the other part.

 

If you want players to join HMs, you do not remove the only paths that may interest casuals...you encourage them.

 

Solo and tactical versions of flashpoints provide a reasonable line of training for a casual player, to get them used to what they may face in SM (and eventually HM) and learn how to play in a more tactical way.

 

In fact I believe solo and tactical versions of current flashpoints is the only way that HMs will survive in this game. Otherwise, eventually I expect the ques will dwindle to nothing due to a toxic hardcore community.

 

It is actually the players of the hardcore content that are killing that content IMO.

 

HMs can stay at their current difficulty level, IMO. What they need to do is make sure every boss drops 192s. Its kind of ridiculous that every boss except the last drops gear that we don't even need. While I hate to say it, they should use the WoW model where every boss is relevant and drops proper gear.

 

I have no issues with the difficulty right now because in a month everyone will outgear the content and they will be much easier.

 

That said, some bosses do need some tweaks. There are a couple kill scenarios that aren't fun game play. They are just annoying because you can't teach people how to be ready for it. For example, the second boss of Korriban incursion HM does a missile salvo against all players in the group. Its simply damage and its too much damage for 186 gear healers and healers trying to learn the fight. Tweak it, don't completely change it.

[branmakmuffin]

For example, the second boss of Korriban incursion HM does a missile salvo against all players in the group. Its simply damage and its too much damage for 186 gear healers and healers trying to learn the fight. Tweak it, don't completely change it.

"Learning the fight" is what Story Mode (or Tactical Mode) is for.