Snipers not viable in 4v4 without guard and healer

[Alyssis]

I laugh every time i hear snipers complain about CC...

[BloodDevistaor]

"OH noes the sniper uses diversion, I'll just stay in the aoe! I'll even forget that a sniper even exists after it wears off" - said no one ever (except in regs)

 

"Shield probe? What is that? " - AP powertech, while bursting through your shield (and breaking it after 2 GCD or less).

 

yada yada yes you have a healer and a tank but that doesn't mean snipers have good survivability. It will still be easier to burst down a sniper than a sorc, a sin or a juggernaut in 3.0. Snipers are more of a liablity to a tank and a healer than before. It's like saying that concealment ops were fine in group ranked pre 3.0 because you have a healer and a tank.

 

Why are you still talking? Unless you play 4s at top level you don't know what the **** you are talking about, you have no place to even speak about balancing in 4s.

 

You are stupid to think it'ss easier to burst down a sniper than sorcs. Snipers have an ability that makes them immune from stuns every 45secs and it provides them with 60% aoe reduction when they are in it. Snipers cannot be interrupted whereas sorcs could. As for your argument about how AP pt -> sniper you are retarded you do realize you can easily avoid the majority of an AP pt's burst by rolling when he places thermal det on you right...? You do realize if you are half decent at this game in 4s you should be able to keep your distance for a short period of time (enough for you to freecast) from any melee class right? The only correct statement in your post is the fact that it is still easier to burst down a sniper than a sin and jugg. But just because it's squishy doesn't mean no one will play it, you are a complete ******* and you clearly do not see how valuable a sniper is in 4s. Please don't even talk until you have played 4s yourself.

Edited December 25, 2014 by BloodDevistaor

[Darkshadz]

Why are you still talking? Unless you play 4s at top level you don't know what the **** you are talking about, you have no place to even speak about balancing in 4s.

 

You are stupid to think it'ss easier to burst down a sniper than sorcs. Snipers have an ability that makes them immune from stuns every 45secs and it provides them with 60% aoe reduction when they are in it. Snipers cannot be interrupted whereas sorcs could. As for your argument about how AP pt -> sniper you are retarded you do realize you can easily avoid the majority of an AP pt's burst by rolling when he places thermal det on you right...? You do realize if you are half decent at this game in 4s you should be able to keep your distance for a short period of time (enough for you to freecast) from any melee class right? The only correct statement in your post is the fact that it is still easier to burst down a sniper than a sin and jugg. But just because it's squishy doesn't mean no one will play it, you are a complete ******* and you clearly do not see how valuable a sniper is in 4s. Please don't even talk until you have played 4s yourself.

 

Where did I say that snipers are completly useless in 4s? I said that they have survivability issues. Good snipers will still do group ranked but they are doing worse than in 3.0 because of the nerfs (and buffs to other classes that didn't need that). It doesn't matter if you roll before the powertech's bombs detonate, he will still eat through shield probe right after the roll lol! AOE damage is not what is causing trouble for snipers, it's the freaking dots! As for sorcs, I'm not sure you're aware of what good sorcs can do and why they're superior to most (if not all) DPS classes in the game.

 

But honestly, why do you think you're the **** in group ranked? You play against the same teams over and over. It's a joke and until BW implement cross-server and/or cross-faction, your rating means nothing. Too easy to artificially inflate it. Anyway, why am I still talking to you? You only listen to yourself.

[BloodDevistaor]

Where did I say that snipers are completly useless in 4s? I said that they have survivability issues. Good snipers will still do group ranked but they are doing worse than in 3.0 because of the nerfs (and buffs to other classes that didn't need that). It doesn't matter if you roll before the powertech's bombs detonate, he will still eat through shield probe right after the roll lol! AOE damage is not what is causing trouble for snipers, it's the freaking dots! As for sorcs, I'm not sure you're aware of what good sorcs can do and why they're superior to most (if not all) DPS classes in the game.

 

But honestly, why do you think you're the **** in group ranked? You play against the same teams over and over. It's a joke and until BW implement cross-server and/or cross-faction, your rating means nothing. Too easy to artificially inflate it. Anyway, why am I still talking to you? You only listen to yourself.

 

Why do you keep saying shield probe is ****? I never said is good but it isn't **** to the point you will die in one global because an AP pt is on you? You think snipers are worse in 3.0 than before solely because of their survivability issues. What you don't realize is that the "survivability issues" you cry about are nullified when you have someone guardswapping and mitigating damage for you. Dots are hurting every class because madness does way too much damage so what is your point? Once again, you telling me snipers are worse in 4s for 3.0 just proves to me how dumb you are.

 

I am more than aware of what sorcs could do in 4s, considering I play with arguably the best sorc player in this game for 4s. That doesn't change the fact that sorcs are still easier to shut down than snipers simply because they are more susceptible to interrupts and stuns whereas for snipers you can't be interrupted and you have an immunity from stuns every 45seconds.

 

Honestly tho, you do realize playing against the same team over and over means more than doing regs all day and being a soloQ hero right? I've never said rating matters in 4s, but when two best teams left in the game play each other over and over it still takes more skills than being a regstar, get real.

Edited December 25, 2014 by BloodDevistaor

[Nightkin]

Jesus christ another one of these crying threads about snipers.

 

For the last *********** time no one cares about SoloQ/regs, and this game should not be balanced off of how a class performs in soloQ/regs. Either play 4s, or continue getting demolished as a regstar/soloQ hero.

 

Snipers are fine as it is, get over it.

I care a great deal about solo que. I main a merc and its horrible. Offtopic, i think Jesus cares aswell. I heard he cares about the little people

[BloodDevistaor]

I care a great deal about solo que. I main a merc and its horrible. Offtopic, i think Jesus cares aswell. I heard he cares about the little people

 

Yah? Then you could either a) reroll b) deal with it or c) step up and play 4s

[Raansu]

With the amount of damage the shadows/sins are putting out and the amount of CC I am find myself dead before I can put out any damage. Being a sniper I always expect to be opened on and now it seems like my job is to not do any dps as a DPS class and just stay alive long enough for the other dps on my team to damage one of the other team members enough to handle 4v3. Are there any other snipers having the same problems?

 

I am referring to solo ques with no tank and healer. So if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions please share.

 

If you're asking for the game to be balanced around solo queue please go away. Game will never and should never be balanced around that mess. Its a team based game, and honestly solo ranked shouldn't even exist.

[KrackShotz]

You got is all wrong: the problem is the arena format itself. They need to do a 4v4 objective game type for ranked.

[maverickmatt]

If you're asking for the game to be balanced around solo queue please go away. Game will never and should never be balanced around that mess. Its a team based game, and honestly solo ranked shouldn't even exist.

 

Solo Ranked should exist. To remove it would only serve to verify what everyone already thinks: That some players want all the goodies to themselves and would rather limit the competition than face anything other than ideal circumstances.

 

At any rate, group ranked is a ****in joke. It has been a joke since 1.2 and will continue to be a joke (no matter the format) until certain things are implemented.

 

Whatever that one guy was talking about sounds silly.

 

HERPDERP U SUKKZ CUZ U DUNT PLY RNKD FOOAARRRZZ

 

Coincidentally (or maybe not) the same phrase was uttered about 8v8. Just go ahead and say what you mean: If you don't play group ranked (HAHAHA WHAT A CHALLENGE) then you are not worthy of an opinion (which of course is the dumbest thing I've ever read on any forum).

 

You know what is much more fun that deathmatch arenas? Regular Warzones.

You know what is much more stressing than casually coordinating CC while using whatever FOTM you can find that will carry you? Regular Warzones. Nothing comes close to trying to win a game with 7 other people who have no idea what you are thinking. You have no idea what they are about to do; You can only hope to play into their move and be successful.

 

This game is not particularly difficult on any level, however one of the easier things to do is press the right button on demand when someone tells you to. **** with group ranked being the end-all, especially in this game.

[BloodDevistaor]

Solo Ranked should exist. To remove it would only serve to verify what everyone already thinks: That some players want all the goodies to themselves and would rather limit the competition than face anything other than ideal circumstances.

 

At any rate, group ranked is a ****in joke. It has been a joke since 1.2 and will continue to be a joke (no matter the format) until certain things are implemented.

 

Whatever that one guy was talking about sounds silly.

 

HERPDERP U SUKKZ CUZ U DUNT PLY RNKD FOOAARRRZZ

 

Coincidentally (or maybe not) the same phrase was uttered about 8v8. Just go ahead and say what you mean: If you don't play group ranked (HAHAHA WHAT A CHALLENGE) then you are not worthy of an opinion (which of course is the dumbest thing I've ever read on any forum).

 

You know what is much more fun that deathmatch arenas? Regular Warzones.

You know what is much more stressing than casually coordinating CC while using whatever FOTM you can find that will carry you? Regular Warzones. Nothing comes close to trying to win a game with 7 other people who have no idea what you are thinking. You have no idea what they are about to do; You can only hope to play into their move and be successful.

 

This game is not particularly difficult on any level, however one of the easier things to do is press the right button on demand when someone tells you to. **** with group ranked being the end-all, especially in this game.

 

One of the more retarded posts I've read on forums. Lolololo

 

No one ever said group ranked isn't a joke. It is, but if you aren't playing it that makes you even more of a joke because it is the only competitive aspect left in this game, which only means you don't have full grasp of the game, therefore you have no place to talk about balancing.

 

Yeh dude regs are so fun oh man cap dat node must get dem objective points much skills such funz.

 

Really don't understand the thinking process of people who find regs "fun". So fun trying hard in regs to win comms that I don't need. So fun trying hard in regs when it isn't even competitive at all. So fun trying hard in regs when objectives don't even take skills, LOL get real.

 

How can you even argue that there are better players outside of the current top 4s team in arenas? That is absurd and just an idiotic random statement, lolo

Edited December 25, 2014 by BloodDevistaor

[Wonkanerd]

Jesus christ another one of these crying threads about snipers.

 

For the last *********** time no one cares about SoloQ/regs, and this game should not be balanced off of how a class performs in soloQ/regs. Either play 4s, or continue getting demolished as a regstar/soloQ hero.

 

Snipers are fine as it is, get over it.

 

I coulnd't agree more. Balance should be made around 4s, and not soloq fest. In reality, noone gives a **** about soloq - its just there for casuals.

 

Was watching Roudy's stream yday - played vengeance jug, he constantly outdamaged everyone in his team and almost the same with the enemy dpsers, and he ran Partisan gear with like 3 Exhumed pieces.

 

I mean you could literally queue with anything as long as you're good and stomp soloq. And yes, Team Ranked = factor, soloq = nonfactor.

[Wonkanerd]

 

At any rate, group ranked is a ****in joke. It has been a joke since 1.2 and will continue to be a joke (no matter the format) until certain things are implemented.

 

.

 

Group Ranked 4s is the peak of competitive PvP in this game. You have absolutely 0 idea how intense some matches were/are in that game mode between top teams. Needless to say, you are wrong. Soloq has been the biggest joke and should have never been implemented in a first place.

[Rilok_Singz]

Solo Ranked should exist. To remove it would only serve to verify what everyone already thinks: That some players want all the goodies to themselves and would rather limit the competition than face anything other than ideal circumstances.

 

At any rate, group ranked is a ****in joke. It has been a joke since 1.2 and will continue to be a joke (no matter the format) until certain things are implemented.

 

Whatever that one guy was talking about sounds silly.

 

HERPDERP U SUKKZ CUZ U DUNT PLY RNKD FOOAARRRZZ

 

Coincidentally (or maybe not) the same phrase was uttered about 8v8. Just go ahead and say what you mean: If you don't play group ranked (HAHAHA WHAT A CHALLENGE) then you are not worthy of an opinion (which of course is the dumbest thing I've ever read on any forum).

 

You know what is much more fun that deathmatch arenas? Regular Warzones.

You know what is much more stressing than casually coordinating CC while using whatever FOTM you can find that will carry you? Regular Warzones. Nothing comes close to trying to win a game with 7 other people who have no idea what you are thinking. You have no idea what they are about to do; You can only hope to play into their move and be successful.

 

This game is not particularly difficult on any level, however one of the easier things to do is press the right button on demand when someone tells you to. **** with group ranked being the end-all, especially in this game.

 

#regstar4lyfe #regsmatter #regsoverranked

[lpsmash]

noone gives a **** about soloq - its just there for casuals.

 

Would you say that there are more casual or more competitive players?

[Wonkanerd]

Would you say that there are more casual or more competitive players?

 

Ranked should not be balanced and ran around casuals. Its all %s. WoW has mostly casuals, SWTOR has mostly casuals. But competitive/skilled/exceptional players make the PvP what it is.

[helpmewin]

Classes should be balanced for group 4*4 and HM/NiM OPS. Solo ranked and WZ-s is a joke. Srsly stop it. Every class without escapes dies very quickly if focused by 3-4 DPS-rs. If sniper first target this is not reason to give them god mod in cover. I can tell that sorcs, mercs, maras, PT-s dies quickly too - cause no escapes like vanish, juggers lives little longer if focused cause h2full. No 1 can do something big even sins if focused by 3-4 DPS-rs, nobody. Edited December 25, 2014 by helpmewin

[Darkshadz]

Ranked should not be balanced and ran around casuals. Its all %s. WoW has mostly casuals, SWTOR has mostly casuals. But competitive/skilled/exceptional players make the PvP what it is.

 

Arenas in WoW are not a joke, though. Blizzard do care about their PVPers. BW doesn't even know what PVPers eat for dinner. Don't expect anything serious about PVP in this game for now. Sad but true. You are right to say that group ranked is what is supposed to be the competitive type of PVP but BW doesn't seem to care much about it.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Darkshadz

[BaineOs]

Lol done because you have nothing else pointless to say or you realize how dumb you were to even trying to argue about how 8v8 > 4v4 in terms of skill cap? I will assume the latter.

 

No, I was done because of how you suddenly became all retarded like.....seriously like. You can't read a post properly the first time so you have to completely make something up about me editing a post? What a joke...

 

Your argument is a joke.

 

...you are a joke.

 

Also please state where I say 8x8 is greater than 4x4 regarding skill cap? Oh wait again....guess what....you can't! Please.....learn to read this is just embarrassing. Twice in one thread I mean....come on.

 

All I was saying you imbecilic moron is there are people out there who could do very well in 4x4 at the top level if they wanted to.....but don't because they aren't interested in 4x4. Would they be able to beat the absolute best current 4x4 teams out there right from the word go? No probably not, those teams are well established and have more experience at 4x4. That doesn't mean to say they haven't the capacity to if they put the time into it.

 

I mean this game is ez right so basically anyone can put a team together and do really well in 4x4. If something is ez then it doesn't really take much skill to do.

 

Face it, arena as a whole both solo and group is a wasted experiment.

 

To turn around and say that unless you are doing group ranked you shouldn't even be talking about balance is...well....incredibly elitist and I would be well surprised if you couldn't see this.....what am I saying? Of course I can believe it.

 

As per my original point.....I hate to be the one to break this to you but in comparison there's not that many people who gives a rats *** about group 4z4 ranked. Quite how you have the audacity to take that comment into the line you have about I'm a casual and must be bad simply because I don't do 4x4 is beyond me.

 

Let me put this in simply terms dude that even you can understand, shut the **** up and learn to respect how others like to play the game. Just because I and a lot of other people don't care for arena's whether solo or group doesn't mean we don't get to voice our opinions on how we think the game needs to be balanced.

[Wonkanerd]

Arenas in WoW are not a joke, though. Blizzard do care about their PVPers. BW doesn't even know what PVPers eat for dinner. Don't expect anything serious about PVP in this game for now. Sad but true. You are right to say that group ranked is what is supposed to be the competitive type of PVP but BW doesn't seem to care much about it.

 

Arenas in WoW have been joke since like forever. You can almost 1shot people, do 1 min cc chains, get silenced, stunned and what not. Its an easy game. SWTOR has better mechanics to it - resolve system, guards. Doing coordinated burts dmg windows was something that took skill - hardswitches in SWTOR e.g., forcing guards/breakers in sw/wow. Now both games are more or less derp. So yeah, arenas in WoW are joke.

[Darkshadz]

Arenas in WoW have been joke since like forever. You can almost 1shot people, do 1 min cc chains, get silenced, stunned and what not. Its an easy game. SWTOR has better mechanics to it - resolve system, guards. Doing coordinated burts dmg windows was something that took skill - hardswitches in SWTOR e.g., forcing guards/breakers in sw/wow. Now both games are more or less derp. So yeah, arenas in WoW are joke.

 

hmmm nope. WoW arenas are far from perfect but Blizzard supports their pvp community. There are also tournaments and you don't face the same teams over and over since there is cross-server pvp. You don't even have to be on the same server if you wanna team up with other people. Did you watch Blizzcon this year? Good players don't get 1 shotted or CCed for 1 minute. So nope, WoW arenas are not a joke despite being imperfect.

 

edit: I could also mention that they didn't remove RBGs because reasons, like SWTOR did. But yea, PVP in WoW is not a joke in general.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Darkshadz

[LeglessChair]

Are you willing to debate with me about how anything other than 4s in this game takes some amount of skills? Loololololololo.

 

I will give you an example. If you take the best players in this game that do 4s and you put them in regs/soloQ, they will perform the best out of their entire team every game. However, if you put some regstars/soloQ heroes in 4s, they would play like **** and they would get completely demolished. Why? Because areans actually take the most skills in this game in comparison with regs and other pointless ****. Don't believe me? Let's look at the leaderboards. The top soloQ heroes in this game can't even manage to break 1300 in 4s. It is pretty evident why anything else other than team ranked is irrelevant when you are talking about skill cap.

 

So, in sum, if you are trying to convince people that just because a class is **** in soloQ or reg and it needs to be changed, you are completely clueless and should not be speaking.

 

go away sh***er

Edited December 25, 2014 by LeglessChair

[BloodDevistaor]

No, I was done because of how you suddenly became all retarded like.....seriously like. You can't read a post properly the first time so you have to completely make something up about me editing a post? What a joke...

 

Your argument is a joke.

 

...you are a joke.

 

Also please state where I say 8x8 is greater than 4x4 regarding skill cap? Oh wait again....guess what....you can't! Please.....learn to read this is just embarrassing. Twice in one thread I mean....come on.

 

All I was saying you imbecilic moron is there are people out there who could do very well in 4x4 at the top level if they wanted to.....but don't because they aren't interested in 4x4. Would they be able to beat the absolute best current 4x4 teams out there right from the word go? No probably not, those teams are well established and have more experience at 4x4. That doesn't mean to say they haven't the capacity to if they put the time into it.

 

I mean this game is ez right so basically anyone can put a team together and do really well in 4x4. If something is ez then it doesn't really take much skill to do.

 

Face it, arena as a whole both solo and group is a wasted experiment.

 

To turn around and say that unless you are doing group ranked you shouldn't even be talking about balance is...well....incredibly elitist and I would be well surprised if you couldn't see this.....what am I saying? Of course I can believe it.

 

As per my original point.....I hate to be the one to break this to you but in comparison there's not that many people who gives a rats *** about group 4z4 ranked. Quite how you have the audacity to take that comment into the line you have about I'm a casual and must be bad simply because I don't do 4x4 is beyond me.

 

Let me put this in simply terms dude that even you can understand, shut the **** up and learn to respect how others like to play the game. Just because I and a lot of other people don't care for arena's whether solo or group doesn't mean we don't get to voice our opinions on how we think the game needs to be balanced.

 

Your logic of this game is flawed, and it is because of your dumb mentality is why this game's balancing is garbage in the first place.

 

I'm going to establish this one and for all. If you aren't currently playing in the top 4s team, you aren't good at this game and you never will be till you play against the best. Plain and simple. You might be good at regs or raiding or dueling or soloQ, but you are not good at the game when you are talking about high level skill caps. You can be a regstar all day all you want and gaining rating that doesn't mean **** in soloQ, it doesn't mean anything in comparison with the skills you are required to obtain for 4s. Why? Because 4s takes different amount of skills and it requires different levels of skills, skills you won't obtain simply by "being good" at regs or soloq. So if you are sitting here telling me some regstars could be good at 4s if they wanted to, **** off and tell them to prove it. Because from what I've seen regstars will always be regstars and the best players will always be the best players. Anyone that plays 4s know this to be true, all those that disagree with this statement are all regstars/SoloQ heroes.

 

I've never once said this game is hard to play. In fact, this game is really easy to learn and to play at the top competitive level. But what amazes me is despite how easy it is to get good at this game players like you still continue being a regstar instead of actually trying to get better through a game mode that actually takes some skills.

 

You are really naive to think you have a place in talking about balancing in this game when you aren't even close to having the highest skill level possible in this game. Do tell me why you should be able to voice your opinion about how balancing works when you know nothing of how the classes function in environments that take skills (arenas)?

 

Like ****s sakes, I've been saying this from time to time but players with no 4s background should be restricted from talking about balancing on the forums. Is just sad to read and it makes me wanna bash my head against a wall.

Edited December 25, 2014 by BloodDevistaor

[Wonkanerd]

Soloq heroes need to understand that soloq is not competitive

[Darth__Reaver]

lol @ the elitist saying only 4s matter... but i digress....

 

To the OP, at least you sir have protection from leaps and far better mitigation tool set.. play a merc, then know real frustration.

 

^ this put the thread to shame. He is correct.

[ishbindeinvater]

I think snipers are fine and that it is only a problem with arenas and the lack of teamplay when you solo queue and the proble is much bigger when your enemy team got 2+ stealthers. That happened to me last time and I was down in 3 secs, could do nothing at all in both rounds.

 

But that wasn't my fault it was the fault of my teammates, they should have known, especially after the first round, that both operatives are going to open on me and CC them. But they all just care about their own skin and damage is most important, not teamplay.

 

If I could have a wish for snipers it would be a bubble stun like the sorc have. On shield probe.

 

But that could make us OP in warzones.

 

I would say, nerf enemy team, buff own team :-) it's just about teamplay, nothing else. You will not have problems if it's no stealthers in enemy team or just 1. I can handle one but not 2.