The new Ops are just too hard!

[Camelpockets]

I can understand people wanting to link achievements for HM’s and NiM’s but the idea of having to have people to link achievements for SM seems a little excessive especially for these op’s that have only been out for about 2 weeks. Just today I saw a 16m SM Ravagers where they wanted you to link them all Ravagers Boss achievements, be in full 186 gear, have all your gear augmented and be in TS or else you wouldn’t even get a look in (excessive for SM Ravagers much?). These are new op’s and people are still learning and the best way to learn is to attempt it, fail and go back and do it again. If you've finished the new op's and have your achievements that's great but how about now instead of only wanting to op with people who can also showcase these still relatively new achievements (remember they've only been out less than 3 weeks) now help some newcomers or those having difficulties with them?

 

That gear?

 

I healed HM Bulo and some other stuff on a Scoundrel that was in the full Yavin set. (Unopt 186), 180 MH and no Augments. Really people?

Edited December 20, 2014 by Camelpockets

[Felkroth]

SM is for casual story invested individuals.

 

Period.

 

Someone suggested things not hit for 20k and instead hit for 10k...or the two walker fight in ToS give you a 15 second window to kill each of them instead of a split second. Thats on the right path to adjusting.

 

Mechanics in SM need to be a 'beneficial suggestion' and not a 'OMG YOU KILLED EVERYONE!"

 

 

I'll additionally echo a previous comment from someone who said that EC really began the difficult mechanic fights....And if your honest with yourself EC is additionally the raid (of KP/EV/EC) that no one wants to do STILL. Even being removed 10 levels from EC HM/NIM....I wouldn't want to do it with PuGs.

 

^That is a problem.

[JDotter]

Interesting read so far going to add some stuff.

 

Of the current iterations the only fights that teach you thing about the HM version of the fight is Walkers/Bulo, the rest literally teach you nothing on how to prepare for the HM iterations.

 

If I wasn't in the guild I am for me personally I'd rather have the SM iterations teach me something for HM. I personally think people are used to the zerg mentality and don't want to wipe a few times to get a boss down. I wouldn't dare pug 16M but 8M should be feasible with someone guiding the ship and people listening.

 

With all this said I don't think Walkers/bulo are pug friendly without someone who can solo heal the content when the other healer decides to afk. The bulo wipes, tanks are most likely not doing the Scatter Blaster mechanic properly.

 

We as a guild pugged the final spots for a 16M HM of old content ( DF/DP/TFB) and it was fun getting whispers of gratitude for getting people achievements.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

The bulo wipes, tanks are most likely not doing the Scatter Blaster mechanic properly.

 

I had a pug of bulo with a guild who were quite arrogantly spamming their NiM achieves in chat as if the achieves make them immune from criticism, I was still eating a lot of scatter blaster (after force camo used on first).

 

I think a lot of tanks out there even ones that do clear a lot of progression content don't know how to build and maintain threat properly and rely on DPS to hold back too much, I think previous ops have put tanks on the spot more for tactics (i.e. kiting bosses to spots, tank swaps ect) rather than threat management.

Edited December 21, 2014 by FlyinSpaghetti

[umbak]

Many tanks seem to hold their taunts in reserve for some mythical doomsday scenario. However, in most fights nothing really can go too wrong in under 12s that requires a taunt to fix so they should be spamming the hell out of at least their single target taunts, it is literally the highest threat move you can make.

 

The lack of taunting I think goes a huge way to the collective threat problem of some tanks since traditionally (in other MMO's) taunts only stuck a mob to you for several seconds without the x3 aggro component.

Edited December 22, 2014 by umbak

[SBR_QuorTek]

They are not to hard, it is just getting used to the mechanics, at first for myself I ran around being a little confused but after a whipe here and there... it just get fine and dandy..... rest is about putting it into perfection.

 

When SnV and TFB came out people could not beat styrak for an instance just like that nor the OP IX and even difficulties on some other bosses... and now just think of how mean HM Styrak coudl be or OP IX... and those bosses people still fail on because they don't want to either listen or follow the mechanics and order for doing this and that.

 

It is all a matter about motivation and stop being lazy... eg. second boss on ravagers seem very very mean with all the blue circles, but hello... here is what you are going to do.. when one get on you you just step out of it and place the next... moving on untill having placed 3 closely together and there would be plenty of room to move around on after that and run in and heal this or that or whichever, they added a couple of mechanics additionally other than that, but move do your stuff and win eventually.

[Alanbra]

I guess I'll go contrary to most here and say yes, they are too hard, they should never have been released in this form, and the nerf to them had better happen pretty dog gone soon.

Last week I did Ravagers 8 man with some frends. This week I tried three gf runs, two of which were mostly a single guild with some pugs and everyone in voice. All three were complete disasters.

What was interesting is that when in those runs 7 times someone would drop and the group would reque. Only once did some random person join as a replacement. The other 6 times people would ask guildies to que. When the guildie did, they would be the one to join.

What that says to me is that two weeks in, people are avoiding the new content. And since improving gear is the carrot that keeps a lot people playing, and since token drops from the new ops are the best way to do that, having people avoid the new ops doesn't do much to keep people playing.

[BlueShiftRecall]

What that says to me is that two weeks in, people are avoiding the new content.

 

This so much. All this week I have seen nearly no ToS or Ravagers games being advertised on the fleet at all. Heaps of the old 55's and even lots of TC's lately but people seem to be avoiding these new ones like the plague!

[JowyBlight]

Its not too hard. People just aren't geared as well as they need to be for HM. Plus, lets just be honest 2.0 nerfed the crap out things. People got soft and could ignore mechanics. Now ppl have to actually try again and use your brain and coordinate with their team. I am glad they are challenging HM ops again reminds me of 1.0. So stop whining and man up! Edited December 22, 2014 by JowyBlight

[Divona]

An observation after completing SM both ops and starting with HM's (Both ops first bosses are quite easy in HM).

 

In SM both ops second boss can be a problem for many. But in my opinion Temple of Sacrifice ops second boss is what is overtuned for story mode. Not only it requires huge amount of dps check (a lot aoe) it also has mechanic that doesnt take into account lag with server and sometimes still failing even when people stood correct place for the boss encounter mechanic. Bioware still making ops boss encounters difficulty in random order like previous ops. It should get harder with EACH boss from going to the end boss not the first or second boss.

 

Wait until you see Temple second boss in HM, then you understand whats actually hard...

[MiaowZedong]

People are also ignoring the new content because they can get a ton of Ultimate comms from running older operation in HM, which is still easier than the new ones in SM and gives far more comms. The SM ops give tokens for 192s but you could go through an entire raid without winning a token, and although the 192 set is superior to 198 comms gear for most (all?) classes, 198 is a bigger number and that's all most people look at (when they can be bothered to look past HP totals at all, that is).

 

Also, there are only two new operations. Two SM raids a week will take a very long time to drop enough 192 gear to attack the HM raids at the "correct" gear tier.

[Quessiro]

I am disappointed that the hardest boss of them all though is Sword Squadron Commanders. Makes pugging ToS pretty much impossible

Just imagine for a while you got past Walkers with PUG. And now you're facing Underlurker. With his over-tuned, unavoidable raid-wide damage, casting his bugged cross too soon in most cases, while FPS drops to a slideshow for some. And shooting 40k hits every time when cross mechanic fails. Have fun.

 

These new story modes.... they are not conducive to pugs, at all. The scaling is completely out of whack, mostly on the 2nd/3rd bosses of ToS and 2nd boss of Ravagers. And there is no satisfaction given to me for making the story modes this difficult... that's what hard mode is for.

 

Making the entry level to the new ops have this high of a difficulty is NOT going to produce better raiders. The fact is, most bads simply do not get good, no matter what you do. Its going to have the opposite effect, less people are going to do the raids. And if less people do your raids, less people are playing your game, which is bad for everyone.

/signed

 

QFT - and interestingly enough, looking through videos from the PTS it appears a lot of damage abilities in story mode were significant increased, sometimes doubled, on the live version.

 

If it isn't a bug, then it shows how tuning and balancing new content (especially SM and GF content) based on the feedback or performance of top players invited to participate in closed testing using min / maxed better than required gear versus tuning for the average player wearing the crap from the Basic Comms vendor is a pretty dumb idea.

 

Make HM Operations really hard, NiM even more so, but content designed for group finder with players all wearing basic gear should be reasonably beatable by the average player - even if that means it is super easy for those of us who run HM / NiM operations.

/signed

 

An advice to Bioware, next time you have a close-beta for new Operations, invite someone else than just Dulfy and her NiM raidier friends to give feedback on difficulty

/signed

 

SM is for casual story invested individuals.

 

Period.

It was just a couple months ago, patch 2.8, when they added BOLSTER to GF operations. The reasoning behind that was to make STORY mode content more accessible for casual player. What changed?

 

This so much. All this week I have seen nearly no ToS or Ravagers games being advertised on the fleet at all. Heaps of the old 55's and even lots of TC's lately but people seem to be avoiding these new ones like the plague!

Rewards are screwed. Old HM content is easier than new SM content. Old HM content is rewarding Ultimate Comms, new SM content is rewarding Elite Comms, plus crappy Massassi MK-1 gear (I did new SM ops couple of times, haven't seen a single MK-2, I mean the one with with better enhancement).

 

When adding all above together, as a final result, folks will be leaving the game, which is bad. And it won't produce better raiders. If they find new content unplayable, then it's like nothing new was added at all. No new endgame. Just do a single-player story line and farewell. Working as intended?

[SBR_QuorTek]

People are also ignoring the new content because they can get a ton of Ultimate comms from running older operation in HM, which is still easier than the new ones in SM and gives far more comms. The SM ops give tokens for 192s but you could go through an entire raid without winning a token, and although the 192 set is superior to 198 comms gear for most (all?) classes, 198 is a bigger number and that's all most people look at (when they can be bothered to look past HP totals at all, that is).

 

Also, there are only two new operations. Two SM raids a week will take a very long time to drop enough 192 gear to attack the HM raids at the "correct" gear tier.

 

They are ignoring because they chose to ignore very simple mechanics best way to put it would be looking onto second boss in ravagers... what kills groups basically is all the blues which can be placed carefully where you want them and closely together, they forget to tank swap on the boss, they forget to run the barrels to the ads in a figure of speech...

 

It is very very very basic mechanics that can be dealt with, also keep in mind that it is harder with entry level gear and you got to work with what you got, get used to the new FPS for starters, it is for a reason the ads hit so hard it means for starters you gotta adjust your heals have to be there right away... was the same when we got makeb the ads hit really hard... in the beginning it was difficult but got easier when you had the gear for it and then could steam roll everything, same goes for the Ops in general if you look through the game over time.

 

Many or some of us remember when at launch we had to do EV and KP, my guild spend like 4 hours on the first boss to just get it down with entry level gear lol... was hilarous... but still eventually did it... after a couple of weeks we even got SoA down at that point... think of this like a new launch where everything is new once again.

 

It is not to hard it is just keeping stuff together many of the Operations we have gotten over time has not just been pugged from the beginning, usually that happened later on... I don't know a place like TFB has been content for so long that everyone know the SM way of it... but many still suck at the HM way lol.

[GrimWulf]

This is pretty much why I have cancelled my Subscription. With my play time due to working crazy hours I find I have to run pugs pretty much 95% of the time. Even running 60 HMs I find it too time consuming to make it worth the effort.

 

I don't mind not being able to run OPs on HM/Nim but I would like to run them on SM and not have it take up 4 hours of my day just to acquire a few Ultimate comms or other gear.

 

I guess I am too casual of a player and need to look for something else to do!

[Larsenex]

Why do people expect to complete an Operation in less than 2 hours?

 

I fully expect to wipe repeatedly on 2nd boss and pause and come back a few days later.

 

My guild is forming an 8 man for Ravagers. We are gearing first via comms from Ops/55 hms.

 

We are all good players and I posted to expect dozens of wipes and dont sign up if you expect quick runs and get frustrated (which oddly enough in pugs I do, but not in guild hosted raids).

 

So we will gear up with some 192 before hitting ravagers and hopefully we can work together as a team.

[Terro_Fett]

There is a reason Ops have a weekly lockout instead of a daily lockout. People are spoiled by clearing an Op in one night, generally in 2 hours or less.

 

When TFB Story Mode (lvl 50) and EC Story Mode (lvl 50) both first came out, they weren't cleared in a day except by progression guilds. They did get cleared, but it would often be a 2-3 day effort.

 

When S&V first came out, it took pugs more than just one night to clear it as well.

 

These ops on story mode sit around where EC Story mode was at launch. Not hard, but you have to spend time learning the fights, you can't ignore mechanics, and you can't expect to faceroll.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Terro_Fett

[AlrikFassbauer]

The result? No one can get through a 2 year old HM operation. They can AoE down the monsters in Bestia all day though.

 

A very, very similar thing has actually happened in the KDY FP : People who are so REALLY good in combat, they do stand ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS before the riddle of how o build a starfighter.

 

And I do NOT blame Bioware that people became so clueless and totally devoid of any creative ideas : I do blame the game industry as a whole !

 

Why ? Because games - in general ! - which require the player to actually THINK to solve riddles - these games have DIED OUT.

 

I'm speaking of Adventure games. The kind of games which made LucasArts big.

 

Nowadays, PC gaming is totally degebnerated, imho : A few game genres almost completely dominate everything.

 

And NONE of them force players to actually THINK to solve riddles like Adventure games did !

 

Sjhooters, WWII games, Action-RPGs - the hardly ever contain actual riddles.

Why ? because the are all totally extrovert games - made by extroverts for extroverts.

 

Introvert games - the classical HOMM, Age Of Wonders, Realms Of Arcania turn-based strategy games and RPGs with turn-based combat - no game publisher doe them ! They are all acting like "you want US to publish something with turn-based thingy ? ARE YOU INSANE ??? That's FAAAAR too much financial RISK !"

 

So, all we have in the gaming industry are fast-paced games or shooters which don't include any hard or harder puzzles.

 

Because "puzzles are for loosers. Puzzles are for whiners." Puzzles are uncool.

 

And THAT is the reason why people fail with Operator IX.

 

And Bioware even caters those who don't want to think the puzzle way by basically making an Action-RPG called "Star Wars The Old Republic". No puzzles please. "The brains of the poor children could perhaps explode, and then we'd get sued by their parents."

 

 

 

If it isn't a bug, then it shows how tuning and balancing new content (especially SM and GF content) based on the feedback or performance of top players invited to participate in closed testing using min / maxed better than required gear versus tuning for the average player wearing the crap from the Basic Comms vendor is a pretty dumb idea.

 

As a sidenote : There are actually people out there who want all classes and all PvP to be balanced for the top best players.

Edited December 22, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Khevar]

Because "puzzles are for loosers. Puzzles are for whiners." Puzzles are uncool.

 

And THAT is the reason why people fail with Operator IX.

 

And Bioware even caters those who don't want to think the puzzle way by basically making an Action-RPG called "Star Wars The Old Republic". No puzzles please. "The brains of the poor children could perhaps explode, and then we'd get sued by their parents."

I'm not really sure how widespread this sentiment is.

 

The people I've run ops with cover a wide variety of people. Goofy teenagers, college kids, moms, military (active and retired), working professionals, etc. Most of them really like the puzzle bosses. I've never heard any of them complain about "puzzles are uncool"

 

------------------

 

That said, when you're talking about a group of strangers that are not in some kind of voice chat program, the puzzle bosses can be extremely difficult to complete -- at least until you have overgeared in the instance. This has been the case since the beginning.

 

Some people will remember pugging SM KP with a group of level 50s in 126/136 gear. The one time I tried this resulted in an absurdly expensive repair bill on the Fabricator. I finally begged the others to join a mumble channel, and we immediately one-shot it.

 

It wasn't even a matter of explaining mechanics. It was simply a matter of coordination. "Firing in 3-2-1", "Brooksie is stunned", "Tank Swap Now", all made it possible to execute that fight smoothly.

 

Of course, once you started having pugs run KP in 146+ gear, coordination to that degree wasn't that important.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Khevar

[bdatt]

This is pretty much why I have cancelled my Subscription. With my play time due to working crazy hours I find I have to run pugs pretty much 95% of the time. Even running 60 HMs I find it too time consuming to make it worth the effort.

 

I don't mind not being able to run OPs on HM/Nim but I would like to run them on SM and not have it take up 4 hours of my day just to acquire a few Ultimate comms or other gear.

 

I guess I am too casual of a player and need to look for something else to do!

 

It's not that you're too casual, you're just impatient. If you're too impatient to wait for new content to be faceroll, then yes you probably should look for something else to do or set aside some amount of time to work on learning the content even if you don't clear it right away.

 

I don't know where other things sit in the development cycle, but when would folks expect the next round of SM/HM operations to come out? NiM Rav and ToS would come first. For groups that only run SM and/or HM, this operation content needs to last 7-9 months I'd wager.

 

For me I've enjoyed having to actually progress in SM, and gear up for HM vs. just walking in like with the last 3 operations. One or two mechanics or "enrage" timers, e.g. # of bombs in ToS Walkers, or # of crosses before Underlurker enrage, could be toned down if they need to make things easier at this stage.

[wadecounty]

I just don't agree with the mentality that story mode NEEDS to be a gateway for ops as much as people are suggesting it does. I am a high level raider, I know I have hard and nightmare modes available to me, I'm not worried about story mode being challenging either way. For the people that are going to actually complain story mode is too hard, and won't finish it, they probably would have never pushed into hard/nightmare modes regardless.

 

Those of us who post on here, who obsessively look up the mechanics of fights, try to get world first etc, we are the minority. Its great that we all like a challenge and seek it, but I prefer story be more accessible to the average person, and I can't see how it hurts me in any way. I've never seen difficult story modes produce better raiders...

 

Story mode EC was considered too hard when it came out, did it produce dramatically better pug raiders? NO!!!! It just meant pugs avoided EC like the plague.

 

But we'll see how they handle it.

 

Personally I think what they really oughta do is upgrade a couple more ops to level 60 versions, and all the 50 hard mode flashpoints as well. There is no need for 50 hard mode flashpoints anymore with all the options for experience at that level, and its the easiest group content to get going, not to mention I really enjoyed some of the old level 50 hard modes and would love to see them tuned for 60 groups.

Edited December 22, 2014 by wadecounty

[DawnAskham]

It would be nice if the developers put up some sort of blog post on their intentions with respect to difficulty, as well as rewards, for the current content.

 

Right now, all we are doing is providing our own opinion as to whether the difficulty overall on SM Operations is at an appropriate level, rather than being able to provide feedback to the developers based on their stated intent.

 

I personally feel with Bioware having put SM Operations into GF (and with a bolster) which provides a reward upon completion, that the expectation has been set that a random group of players should be reasonably successful with no requirement to over gear the instance, use voice comms, or spend weeks progressing.

 

If it is true the expectation is that average players using the bolstered GF version can reasonably complete the operation, then some of the current SM operations bosses are too tuned a bit too difficult.

 

If the expectation is that average players using the bolstered GF version should need voice comms, weeks of progression, and / or progressive gearing (even though it is bolstered), then this should be stated up front.

 

Of course if the intent is even GF bolstered groups should need weeks of progression, then the question needs to be asked - just what and who is GF for anyways, and why is it bolstered?

 

Personally, I'd prefer they create a separate GF only version of the ops which can only be done through GF and which is tuned or provides buffs such that a random group has a very high chance of success rather than see them dumb down SM operations.

 

There should be a format / difficulty that is reasonably easy to complete available for the average player to use and just go see the story - however such a format should provide awards, commendations, and gear on par with the difficulty (e.g. maybe 186 set gear and Elite comms).

 

Right now, GF fails on both accounts as some fights are a bit too difficult for the average groups while overall the rewards for running a bolstered (e.g. no hard gear requirements) version are a bit too generous.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

There is a reason Ops have a weekly lockout instead of a daily lockout. People are spoiled by clearing an Op in one night, generally in 2 hours or less.

 

When TFB Story Mode (lvl 50) and EC Story Mode (lvl 50) both first came out, they weren't cleared in a day except by progression guilds. They did get cleared, but it would often be a 2-3 day effort.

 

When S&V first came out, it took pugs more than just one night to clear it as well.

 

These ops on story mode sit around where EC Story mode was at launch. Not hard, but you have to spend time learning the fights, you can't ignore mechanics, and you can't expect to faceroll.

 

Sorry but there's more to these ops than just learning mechanics, there's HM/NiM style co-ordination checks where you got to make sure you're entire group is in the right place at the right time otherwise you wipe (like as someone mentioned the walkers burn phase).

 

Previous ops have been pugable because it's easier to co-ordinate one or two people in them to pass the mechanics like TFB on operator knowing who's where on which colour or draxus in DF as long as you got a couple who actually use their interrupts on the corrupters and cover back the rest of your group can faceroll (even on HM).

 

In these ops as they stand at the moment you cannot carry the sort of player that ignores mechanics expecting to tank n spank the boss, which probably account of 90% of the group finder queuers.

[ojciecmatki]

Tbh when I first saw new ops on sm (actually 2nd bosses both in ravageres and ToS) I was really happy cause it actually requires thinkink from all players not just 2-4. After many 16man old sm ops where you actually had to do MEABY one think (like dogde some circle but if you dont rest will dps boss down cause of bein overgeared). Unfortunetly people seem to be in the "yolo" mode where everythink is easy and you get your precious comms (which you wont even use cause HMs are too hard).

 

Thats said new ops are not for everyone. If you dont want to listen you will never do this ops (meaby after few months when you will be lucky enough to group with people that have done it before). Today I was doing ToS with pug, being little bored during looking for people I decided to check achievments, from 16 people only 5 have done lvl55 8man HM (little more for 16man, which now many people are doin and you have greater luck to succed). First boss went down on 1st try (altough half raid wiped cause red circle was too hard to avoid). When approching 2nd one, ops leader decided to ignore tank and called rc and said "its sm lets do it jezus". We didnt even get to part when dps should pick a bomb. Then I started to explain how to do this (according to dulfy). Many people during my speach started to be little inpacient but somehow i get to the end. 2nd try - everyone exept those 5 people that have done 8man HM before comletly ignored everythink that I said before, its like they just dont care. It's so sad cause you spend so much time on explaning and it gives 0 success. People just used to do sm with brainless mode instead of doing stuff. Of course after 2nd try 4 people left and it kept goin.

 

What I'm trying to say is that these are finally sm ops that required some mechanices (not even mechanics - willing to learn and thinking) from about 80% of your group. I really like that but my faith in humanity havent been restored since everyone just dont give a sh*t and think its as easy or even easier then previous ops. I know.

 

What I also notice to proof that people are ignorants are the fact that the most "wipeable" sm lvl 55 op is DP, where people can't destroy crystal in future phase. That being said if you want to do new sm ops you have to give something from yourself, dont expect to be carried by other people.

 

Btw I love howe people here read only thread : D

Edited December 23, 2014 by ojciecmatki

[Ichikai]

The new operations are NOT too hard.

Just like how the new HM flashpoints are also not too hard (contrary to what some dps sorc spamming just force storm and force lightning, and nothing else, felt necessary to convey to me yesterday).

 

How easy was TFB or S&V in entry level gear (156)?? I'd venture a guess and say most of the people either first entered with already semi-decent gear or got carried by others with decent gear in the past year. (yeah TFB is really easy with 180 comms gear)

 

A little challenge or mustering up some patience is too much?

 

Sure, some bugs and lack of optimization are contributing to the difficulty factor, and some refinements would be welcome on some fights. But this merely requires some patience. They'll get to it eventually (Yeah, I agree they should've polished the expansion a bit more but oh well).

 

For instance, the area of the sword squadron walkers lowers performance by at least 20-30 FPS just entering the room for most people, which can be quite a hassle for people who already play at rather low FPS. I manage to get about 30 FPS in an 8 man (naturally worse for 16, ~20 FPS?). Which is still fairly playable albeit not optimal, seeing as how I run the game at a continuous 60++ FPS anywhere else.

 

The Underlurker's cross missaligning does not help either, albeit avoidable with proper workaround tactics.

 

I even have a sneaking suspicion Bulo's barrel throw is not quite working as intended.

20-30k unavoidable damage out of the blue, without any indication who it is going for or where it's going to hit, preceded by just the boss's throwing animation (if you can see it through the crap orange blobs of fire of powertechs and mercs) seems like a little bit too much. Pair it with some load lifters, stupidly standing in volley or a few shots from freshly spawned adds, will spell doom for you (and probably your group).

Furthermore the "feel" of that ability seems like it would do some initial damage on the person targeted and leaving behind a pool of fire which would do what fire normally does. But apparently it's just a huge hit on a single person, leaving behind a circle of fire you can happily keep standing in (because standing in fire apparently isn't bad for you in bulo world).

 

Yet despite this our guild managed to kill bulo on HM this week. With a healthy dose of luck and a lot of wiping of course. It was a challenge, but hopefully not intended to be so heavily based on luck.

 

A symptom the new ops also seem to have is lack of "tells" or simply just plain visibility. E.G. Torque's fire, just seems to appear out of the blue (sure, probably after a set amount of time and/or something I missed), but not only that, it also makes you see absolutely 0% of the rest of the room, same for the bomb explosion on sword squadron 1, when the smoke clears you're probably standing in either a red or blue circle. Or the load lifters/exonium carts at bulo also like to deprive you of your visual sense. Sword squadron 2 also likes to surprise you with a blue circle out of nowhere which starts to tick instantly.

Just saying, if the best way to tank these things is to run around like a PVP ballerina then something's wrong (highly personal opinion, might not be agreeable for some )

Add to this the orange blobs of supposedly fire from your fellow powertechs or mercs and you might as well guess what's going on around a boss.

 

Anyhow, I'm sure there's some things and examples I forgot to mention, but this should get the gist of what I feel to be amiss with the current OPs across. (Feel free to disagree )

 

Finally, any story mode operations featuring bosses with mechanics that can't be ignored, will ALWAYS cause problems with PUGs unless they're forced onto a VoIP client. A rudimentary built-in VoIP option may help knowledgeable people direct raids more efficiently as well. Or possibly seek cooperation with an existing VoIP solution. I realize it's far fetched, but if the devs truly want to both have interesting mechanics in story mode and have PUGs have a decent chance at completing these at the same time, then I honestly do not see any alternative (According to my optician I am short sighted so mayhaps there is another way )

 

TL;DR Fix bugs, optimize performance and add some improvements for non-psychic/non-XrayVision people, and the new operations would be much less hard than they are perceived by some currently.

 

PS: holy wall of text, i should go sleep already.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Ichikai

[AAntan]

I don't think these new ops are hard at all... on the other hand they are challenging if we compare them to the faceroll the old SM ops used to be (this includes EC SM which got nerfed twice).

 

What I see nowdays is most players jump into the new ops, expect everything to be ignored and just end it up in 1 day. That's not gonna happen, not now and not in the next month... just like happened with DF and DP when they came out (people still ignore the 1st droid on Brontes btw, even when they outlevel the ops).

 

This is something that happened to me a week ago... I joined an 8m ToS pug and they asked me: "Have you done this before?" I said yes, cleared the whole instance, something that got them surprised because they couldn't get pass Walkers... So I told them to chill that I could help out and promised we would take down at least Walkers (didn't talk about Underlurker until we got there). Taking time to explain with detail the "do and do not" after several pulls (around 5) the Walkers died and they we celebrating like no tomorrow.

 

Next step, the Underlurker... When we got there I got serious and told them the sad truth... "If you think Walkers was hard, this is worse), but even after that they were willing to give it a few shots and see how far we could make it. Again all the things explained with details and we proceeded to pull. The starting pulls were a mess, mostly because people was confused with the "cross mechanic" (which is fine, you won't get it until you see it a few times), but on the 4th pull we started getting green crosses. Now, we couldn't finish the boss because we got enrage (boss was around 30%) but it shows that even the most casual players can do something as simple as standing on the cross if they are willing to.

 

There are a few things to point out:

• Mechanic wise these fights are doable, they just need a bit of concentration and willpower (something that the avg pug lost on 2.0)

• Fights are not hard, but tweaks for SM are a good idea (small tweaks, not nerfing to the ground)

• Most pugs are spoiled... I mean fast runs with huge rewards (comms and mats)? The hell is that? If you want rewards, you should earn them not ask for them (which became quite common since 3.0 comm gear is trash, as it should).

• SM ops aren't the gateway to PvE content, that's why we have SM/HM FPs (less intensive, yet enough to make you focus), so don't ask for nerfs for ops.

 

Now if you think that these ops are incredibly hard because you can't avoid mechanics and roll your face on the keyboard with no concentration, expecting everything to be handed out... I don't know, go play with mud or something, that way you can get all the mud you want ,handed out by someone throwing a water bucket on dirt with no effort at all... also doesn't cost you $15 month, which is a plus.

Edited December 23, 2014 by AAntan