Crafters: Undercutting GTN pricing, I get it...but I don't!

[Beerswiller]

Official release isn't out til next week, yet new augments, mods, etc...have started sprouting all over the GTM. Brand new content that people race for, then proceed to lowball the hell outta each other to scrape for credits. I just don't get cutting your throat on some of these things as the mats are hard to come by and in some cases expensive to harvest rares. I'm sure if you did a cost breakdown on what a MK-10 augment kit cost in real credits, you'd cry at the loss. There's not much profit in posting those for 150k (which I've already seen) if you consider the mats used, the items reverse engineered, the crew skill expense, or the time spent. (Anyone peep the cost of skill training to succeed in the new areas?)

 

It's just flawed logic to market your wares this way. Brand new Nvidia cards are top dollar because they're brand new. This content should cost more for the same reason...Not immediately drop in price because "Bills Backyard CPU supply" has it cheaper then "newegg", Find a fair market value and everyone wins.

 

I'm here to petition crafters to post at the current market value, find the tipping point and quit cutting each other's throats. If "Blueballsfromspace" (blatant fictitious player name) posts his earpiece at 125k, match it, don't immediately drop it to 100k. If it doesnt sell, then you'll get a clearer picture of the items worth, and you can both drop it. Even CRAZIER crafters, communicate with each other. Send a message to the guy above you. Together market values will emerge, community will grow stronger, and the game...regardless of content, glitches or population will become more fun, You'll know Blueballs has a batch of might mods coming out and you're gonna make the skill mods, and you'll all make out.

 

Hell, It's quicker to run black hole dailies to make 150k. I'd like to be a market participant, help the community and the game thrive, but hey...I guess I'll just wait til someone posts things at a ridiculous price simply because they're trying to get below the last listed lowball price, or craft what I need and keep it for myself.../sigh #swgeconomy.

 

and this belongs in another thread comment in 3...2...1...

Edited December 6, 2014 by Beerswiller

[Haxxsaw]

I have a better idea.

 

Why don't you post your stuff on the GTN how you want, and I can post my stuff the way I want.

 

Galls me to all ends when someone tries to convince me that I should do what they think I should do.

 

I am fine with undercutting. If you would dare come to me with this garbage I would laugh in your face.

[TrigPt]

Mats for an Aug kit are 20k ish if you farm the gazzillion nodes on Yavin to craft and RE for the Components. On my server they sell for 70k+

 

Purple augments go for 150k but I'm not that far into crafting yet to work out how much the mats would be.

[BearThing]

I may be mistaken, but the business practices you advocate --- price collusion and market division --- are generally prosecutable when they take place in the real world.

[DeLaaNie]

What I never understand is the need to put a savagely low price. For example, if someone lists Green Goo for 10 million creds, then why would you list yours for 800k? That makes no bloody sense; do you not want to make money?

 

The correct price would be one credit less or 9,999,999. That way we can all make some dough and everyone will be happy. Only an inbred halfwit would price an item so savagely low!

[Heal-To-Full]

I'm sure if you did a cost breakdown on what a MK-10 augment kit cost in real credits, you'd cry at the loss. There's not much profit in posting those for 150k

150k is about break-even without crits, a small win with crits.

 

Everyone can make Mk10 kits. It's a vendor schematic that you don't even need to RE, that's available to all but two skills, that can be crafted out of just about anything, and uses leftovers from RE'ing stuff from any other skill.

 

There's zero exclusivity to it. Aug kits are a tight margin item, always have been, always will be. You have but a few hours to try and grab suckers' money before the oversupply starts pouring in.

Furthermore, they're useless without augments - which are far, far harder to make. Oh, and some crafted gear comes with an aug slot already. The demand for Mk? aug kits can never keep up with the supply.

 

 

If "Blueballsfromspace" (blatant fictitious player name) posts his earpiece at 125k, match it, don't immediately drop it to 100k.

Is it a purple earpiece? Sure - I want to sell purple earpieces for 300k+, ma-aybe 200k, I'm only dropping to 124k because of him, and thinking twice whether I really should.

 

Is it a green earpiece? Sorry blueballs et al, green earpieces are a vendor schem that costs like 10k in mats to make; I'm fine with getting 25k out of them if that means a lot of sales, rather than praying that a sucker misclicks to pay 125k for it.

[DreadtechSavant]

I have a better idea.

 

Why don't you post your stuff on the GTN how you want, and I can post my stuff the way I want.

 

Galls me to all ends when someone tries to convince me that I should do what they think I should do.

 

I am fine with undercutting. If you would dare come to me with this garbage I would laugh in your face.

 

 

Well said.

[Lord_of_Mu]

Official release isn't out til next week, yet new augments, mods, etc...have started sprouting all over the GTM. Brand new content that people race for, then proceed to lowball the hell outta each other to scrape for credits. I just don't get cutting your throat on some of these things as the mats are hard to come by and in some cases expensive to harvest rares. I'm sure if you did a cost breakdown on what a MK-10 augment kit cost in real credits, you'd cry at the loss. There's not much profit in posting those for 150k (which I've already seen) if you consider the mats used, the items reverse engineered, the crew skill expense, or the time spent. (Anyone peep the cost of skill training to succeed in the new areas?)

 

It's just flawed logic to market your wares this way. Brand new Nvidia cards are top dollar because they're brand new. This content should cost more for the same reason...Not immediately drop in price because "Bills Backyard CPU supply" has it cheaper then "newegg", Find a fair market value and everyone wins.

 

I'm here to petition crafters to post at the current market value, find the tipping point and quit cutting each other's throats. If "Blueballsfromspace" (blatant fictitious player name) posts his earpiece at 125k, match it, don't immediately drop it to 100k. If it doesnt sell, then you'll get a clearer picture of the items worth, and you can both drop it. Even CRAZIER crafters, communicate with each other. Send a message to the guy above you. Together market values will emerge, community will grow stronger, and the game...regardless of content, glitches or population will become more fun, You'll know Blueballs has a batch of might mods coming out and you're gonna make the skill mods, and you'll all make out.

 

Hell, It's quicker to run black hole dailies to make 150k. I'd like to be a market participant, help the community and the game thrive, but hey...I guess I'll just wait til someone posts things at a ridiculous price simply because they're trying to get below the last listed lowball price, or craft what I need and keep it for myself.../sigh #swgeconomy.

 

and this belongs in another thread comment in 3...2...1...

 

Most people don't understand the basics involved in determining a net profit. It usually leads to a lot of people selling items well below break even point. They might not even see it because they don't price the material value at each stage of the crafting cycle.

 

I have a better idea.

 

Why don't you post your stuff on the GTN how you want, and I can post my stuff the way I want.

 

Galls me to all ends when someone tries to convince me that I should do what they think I should do.

 

I am fine with undercutting. If you would dare come to me with this garbage I would laugh in your face.

 

Will you be laughing before or after someone works out the amount of money you've lost from excessive undercutting and the little to no net profit return from your sales?

Edited December 6, 2014 by Lord_of_Mu

[Mithros]

If you think that the price something is posted at is too low, buy the item and re-list it at what you consider to be a more appropriate price.

 

The seller gets what they want, and you get a chance to make a profit while also removing a lower priced item from the marketplace.

 

Do not come here expecting me to ask other sellers if it's okay to sell an item at whatever price and only do so if they give me permission.

 

If I find some item that I have zero use for or interest in and a vendor will offer me 5K, then my only concern when selling it is whether or not I can get more than 5K for it.

 

If I craft something and think that the profit is too narrow, then I will find a new item to craft for profit.

 

"Time" has no value to me. I'm playing the game while I am gathering materials, I am playing the game while my crew makes whatever it is that I want them to make.

The only "cost to produce" involved is what it costs for the mission materials.

 

Even if it's some ulra-rare material that I can only get one of if I run some operation and I need five of that material to make something, I am still playing the game, which is the whole point of my being here. That is not a "production cost" to me.

 

And again, if I list something lower than you think it should be listed for, feel free to give me my asking price and re-list it at a price that you find to be more satisfactory.

I will not complain.

[DreadtechSavant]

@ Mithros

I have the same attitude, Some times its not about profit its about helping other players. I get what I was asking for after that players can use it resell it, I don't care.

 

Cartel items is a little different to me as that is in affect is real money, but at the end of the day its there money.

[OmenQ]

And again, if I list something lower than you think it should be listed for, feel free to give me my asking price and re-list it at a price that you find to be more satisfactory.

I will not complain.

 

I totally agree with this sentiment, as it's a large part of my credit income. The only time this becomes a challenge is when some white knight crafter decides my price is too high and floods the market with 12 pages of the same item. While I have the credits and the bank space to keep buying him out for... weeks... It's just too much of a hassle to keep it up that long. It turns an item that was once a reliable profit center into pure garbage.

 

So please people, stop crafting 100 of the same item.

[Heal-To-Full]

The only time this becomes a challenge is when some white knight crafter decides my price is too high and floods the market with 12 pages of the same item. While I have the credits and the bank space to keep buying him out for... weeks...

This is exactly what happened to American consumer goods manufacturing.

[Levram]

I may be mistaken, but the business practices you advocate --- price collusion and market division --- are generally prosecutable when they take place in the real world.

 

^ Truth. Free markets are premised on there being no collusion.

 

...though we are playing Star Wars with the Hutt Cartel being a central organization. Nice role-play OP.

[Nothing_Shines]

What you are advocating is the establishment of monopolies and price fixing, both of which violate federal anti-trust laws. Since the GTN functions as a fictional market using play money, it's obviously not illegal, but there's a reason such activities are outlawed in the real world: they put the buyer at an unfair disadvantage in the marketplace by artificially restricting the supply side in order to regulate demand.

 

I'm sorry you feel that you alone should dictate how the free market operates, and that people aren't "doing it right", but it is impossible for you to pull this off by brute force (resources and the money to pay for them are infinite and accessible to literally everyone in the market - there are no oil fields for you to buy up).

 

No one is going to join you in forming your zaibatsu. Get over it and go back to playing the game.

[howieloader]

I may be mistaken, but the business practices you advocate --- price collusion and market division --- are generally prosecutable when they take place in the real world.

 

And that's *********** relevant to a video game how???

[Heal-To-Full]

Indeed, props for figuring out a way to represent what is a crime in the real world as the only honorable behavior.

[Karkais]

I may be mistaken, but the business practices you advocate --- price collusion and market division --- are generally prosecutable when they take place in the real world.

 

But not in game economies, so they are fair game..

[clearsighted]

I may be mistaken, but the business practices you advocate --- price collusion and market division --- are generally prosecutable when they take place in the real world.

 

Someone remembers their business classes .

[Tommerbobby]

Sometimes extreme undercutters bother me. Othertimes, I don't mind. I've made a killing off some of them. One in particular always posts the same items every single day at the exact same price. Probably a bot, but I don't care, cause he's made me tons of credits when I buy his wares and resell them at often double the price.

[Beerswiller]

Promoting community not collusion, I'm not sure if anyone looked, but its not real life, and to get together with a few other players over some things would be, oh lets say "forming a corporation" which is a perfectly legal way to undermine any silly laws. And so happy I can "Gall" some people with an innocuous post in the wee hours when nothing was either pushed or insisted upon or specifically targeting or "told". LOL, some people man. GTF over yourselves. Food for thought post. Thats all. Felt like feeding the trolls for once. IT WORKED! Check my post count. I'm a pro!

[jstankaroslo]

The prices will eventually set on their market value. Right now we can sell for a lot more, and it's gonna last for a few weeks I hope.

I also don't get the "silly" undercutting

Example:

I crafted purple overkills. Looked at the GTN, the only guy listing them put them for 300k each

I put mine for 299k each. I sold half of my listings in a couple of hours.

The guy re-listed his overkills for 250k WHY, WHY WHY?! We were the only ones selling them on this server. We could easily make around 300k for each.

I understand undercutting by a fraction of value, buy for THIS much?

Now they sell for 200k and going down (many more crafters joined)

 

Point is: undercut, sure, but stay on the same price level

[NogueiraA]

The problem:

 

Player A - 300K

Player B - 240K

Me - 239.800K

Player C - 150K

Player D - 100K

Me - 99.900K

Player E - 90K

 

See the problem now? People lowering the prices with NO REASON, everybody would make way more money doing 100~500 credits undercut, but people are dumb enough to drop the prices from 300K to 90K in 5 steps.

[Mithros]

I totally agree with this sentiment, as it's a large part of my credit income. The only time this becomes a challenge is when some white knight crafter decides my price is too high and floods the market with 12 pages of the same item. While I have the credits and the bank space to keep buying him out for... weeks... It's just too much of a hassle to keep it up that long. It turns an item that was once a reliable profit center into pure garbage.

 

So please people, stop crafting 100 of the same item.

 

Well, yeah, I can see a problem if someone decides to produce a hundred of one item and they undercut you on all of them, but rather than turn myself into that player's sole source of income I would abandon whatever I was doing and move on to something else, I think.

 

Not that I have the money to do this... I only dabble in the market ocasionally and not recently. I just came back after a hiatus and I haven't yet found what makes money these days.

 

The problem:

 

Player A - 300K

Player B - 240K

Me - 239.800K

Player C - 150K

Player D - 100K

Me - 99.900K

Player E - 90K

 

See the problem now? People lowering the prices with NO REASON, everybody would make way more money doing 100~500 credits undercut, but people are dumb enough to drop the prices from 300K to 90K in 5 steps.

 

Not everybody would make more money. People will still buy from the lowest listed prices, so player "A" got cut out as soon as "B" posted their wares, and "B" got cut out as soon as you posted yours.

Why not everyone post them at 300K and leave it to chance as to whether people bought yours or theirs?

Sure, someone could list at 298K, but if someone then follows up with postings at 297K, and another at 296K and so on, then all of the higher priced stuff just sits there.

"Everyone" makes money only to the extent that the buyers exist. If the market is satisfied before the stuff listed at 297K+ sells then those who posted at that price (or higher) make no money.

 

Maybe they just think that if they just post at 90K then no one else will bother. They get to sell their stuff and get on with playing the game rather than sitting at a GTN terminal and trying to play the market.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Mithros

[Grayseven]

I watched people undercutting on Mk-11 Augment kits but I set my prices at the median and they still sell within hours.

 

Let the idiots be idiots and just do your own thing. Eventually, someone will buy at the median price as the idiots make their sales.

 

Better, just buy up their ridiculously low items and repost them. I've probably made more doing that than crafting my own.

[Tsillah]

What I never understand is the need to put a savagely low price. For example, if someone lists Green Goo for 10 million creds, then why would you list yours for 800k? That makes no bloody sense; do you not want to make money?

 

The correct price would be one credit less or 9,999,999. That way we can all make some dough and everyone will be happy. Only an inbred halfwit would price an item so savagely low!

 

No that wouldn't be the correct price. Just because someone puts something on there doesn't mean it will sell at that price. I've seen stuff undercut by 500k and still sitting there the next day.

 

Some people want money now, not next week. That's why they undercut. They want to move on, not everybody is into maximising gains and playing the gtn. Some people just want some creds to buy that one chest piece or have a bit of cash to raid.

 

There is no correct price for anything. There are prices at which things sell and prices where they don't sell. What happens if you post it at 1 credit less is that the next person posts it at another credit below. So you need to cancel or wait and post it again for 1 credit below that....who wants to play that game? not me.

 

And while you're playing a stupid game of single credits the price is just too high and no one will buy it, so then the next guy looks at this and says, this is bull, I'd be happy to get half of that for it, so he posts it a lot lower...and while you play your 1 credit game he has credits and someone else is happy with the item they bought from him.

 

You want stop that. In fact what you propose is very close to cartel pricing as it's an agreement between sellers about pricing.

 

No what you propose would make the market too slow and at some point you will be forced to lower your prices anyway. Might as well speed up the process. In the end the really cheap ones will sell quickly and will bring the prices down to a level people are willing to pay for items. What you want just slows down that process and the whole market.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Tsillah