Vember Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Bolster now also bolsters augment. No valid point here.... Next. By now you mean 3.0? Edited December 2, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Might have new augments and kits, but what of the resources needed? I would imagine the resources are on new planets, so you would need level 9s to be able to farm the new planets to make level 10s...unless you just purchase the augs and kits from someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 By now you mean 3.0? Yup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'm going to have to agree with this, this makes me scared to log in...... It seems that this is not happening to everyone. I can confirm that most of the skills I paid for (except for any that were removed from the build by disciplines) were still there, all except one. This could very well be a bug, and it seems many folks are able to get all the skills they should have back. In my particular case resurgence was a skill we had as Sorc healers, and it should NOT be a skill we have to train now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Wow, you people act as if they are requiring Cartel Coins to purchase your abilities. It's in-game currency, easily obtained. I know it sucks having to re-purchase abilities (I took quite a hit myself) but it's not like there is much else to buy with credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrutchCricket Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I had to retrain resurgence and I haven't even picked a discipline because of the atrocious things done with it. Oh and Thrash is also missing now and can't be retrained. I'm sorry, was flailing my lightsaber around once in a while upsetting your poor little balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Exactly what skills that you already had before the expansion came out did you have to repurchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Exactly what skills that you already had before the expansion came out did you have to repurchase? For me, resurgence so far. It seems I have almost everything else. I am not concerned with abilities they may have removed from my skill tree, as that change was made for balance. Only for those that I have already paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrutchCricket Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Exactly what skills that you already had before the expansion came out did you have to repurchase? Like people have said, resurgence. Also kolto probe on op though I already picked a discipline there and wasn't really paying attention. Now that I think about it, it may be because these abilities were moved from the trees to base AC. Still ******** that you have to retrain if you already had it. Probably an oversight but one they should damn well fix. And still doesn't explain Thrash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I had to retrain resurgence and I haven't even picked a discipline because of the atrocious things done with it. Oh and Thrash is also missing now and can't be retrained. I'm sorry, was flailing my lightsaber around once in a while upsetting your poor little balance? Are you sure its not still not the actual ability tab? On my trooper pulse cannon disappeared, but it was still on the ability window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Yeah, had to retrain a lot of my skills as a gunnery commando. It's not everything just a lot of new passives and skills (which you'd expect) and a smattering of old abilities. So I didn't have to retrain grav round ranks, but I DID have to retrain charged bolts and hail of bolts ranks, as an example. I expect they've replaced a bunch of the old abilities with new skills of the same name (but a different internal ID) for the disciplines system. Edited December 2, 2014 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Wow, you people act as if they are requiring Cartel Coins to purchase your abilities. It's in-game currency, easily obtained. I know it sucks having to re-purchase abilities (I took quite a hit myself) but it's not like there is much else to buy with credits. Ah, fair enough, But I wonder that if I required you have to pay for, say your augment installation, or your base abilities, or say perhaps your gear you have now you would have no issue with that either.... You generally do not have players pay twice for something. That is one of the oldest rule in the book of MMO development. It is a BIG no no. The cost is substantial for likely most of the folks that have to pay for it. It doesnt matter if credits are easy to earn, they are not likely easy for many, and that is ALL THAT MATTERS. Upsetting your likely majority casual playerbase with a foolish move like this is NEVER wise. Edited December 2, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zin-Zin Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Exactly what skills that you already had before the expansion came out did you have to repurchase? I've just logged my Jedi Knight on and picked the same Discipline line that I had before the patch. I've had to buy back: Combat Focus and Freezing Force. I stopped there when I realized that I ALREADY HAD BOUGHT THOSE SKILLS WHEN I LEVELLED UP. They previously were baseline abilities for Guardians and I'm not sure why I have to buy them again as I bought them already. Also note that this is a character I levelled up a long time ago and thus paid full price once already for every skill she had. Edited December 2, 2014 by Zin-Zin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Now that I think about it, it may be because these abilities were moved from the trees to base AC. ^^this Trees based abilities don't have ranks, but in several classes's cases some of the tree abilities became AC abilities which means they will needs ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 ^^this Trees based abilities don't have ranks, but in several classes's cases some of the tree abilities became AC abilities which means they will needs ranks. Hmm, this is an interesting point. Then something public should be announced for this to stem the anger IMO. If it can be demonstrated that the change improves the ability I am sure most would accept the new cost. I would likely accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAAmecanic Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Anything that is new to the class is fair to pay for now. However, there is not a single circumstance IMO where it could be considered reasonable and prudent to expect a player to repurchase a skill. The very idea is toxic in my view, as it will obviously anger quite a few folks. It is petty IMO. Even if the solution means no cost at all, you do not charge players twice for the same thing under any circumstance.....it is just bad form obviously. If this is the case folks are obviously NOT going to be happy about this. Not calling you names LordArtemis...but the idea (and I see others agreeing) that if its a new skill you should pay for it is male bovine fecal matter. Here is my reasoning.... if they have so drastically altered the skill trees (which removal would definitely qualify) the you should be able to retrain anything at least to your level 1 X for free. I may no longer want to be in the discipline I was and want to go to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Hmm, this is an interesting point. Then something public should be announced for this to stem the anger IMO. If it can be demonstrated that the change improves the ability I am sure most would accept the new cost. I would likely accept it. Nah, it's not just that. As I posted above, some core abilities (non tree based) had to be retrained as well. It's just a bug I expect, related to a change in internal IDs. Edited December 2, 2014 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannatra Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Ah, fair enough, But I wonder that if I required you have to pay for, say your augment installation, or your base abilities, or say perhaps your gear you have now you would have no issue with that either.... You generally do not have players pay twice for something. That is one of the oldest rule in the book of MMO development. It is a BIG no no. The cost is substantial for likely most of the folks that have to pay for it. It doesnt matter if credits are easy to earn, they are not likely easy for many, and that is ALL THAT MATTERS. Upsetting your likely majority casual playerbase with a foolish move like this is NEVER wise. you know that skills that were moved out of your skill tree to the base class were NEVER paid for before right.. you put a skill point in which was FREE.... so technically you are paying for the FIRST time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdatt Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) you know that skills that were moved out of your skill tree to the base class were NEVER paid for before right.. you put a skill point in which was FREE.... so technically you are paying for the FIRST time. Was just going to make this point too. The example of resurgence, which was never paid for since it was granted when choosing it in the healing tree, is now baseline even for damage disciplines and has to be trained. This seems appropriate to me, but I haven't logged in yet. Edited December 2, 2014 by bdatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propecius Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Wow, you people act as if they are requiring Cartel Coins to purchase your abilities. I think you'll find it's the principle of making people pay twice for something that bothers us. Even for those of us who aren't whining and crying about the change change to the abilities system, making us pay to get back something we already paid for is just ... wrong. There's a word for that when it happens in the real world: theft. Or ransom. It's not unreasonable to expect a change in the way abilities work would be accompanied by some sort of mapping of old abilities to the new system. It is also not unreasonable to expect that, if there is no direct mapping, some means of crediting us for previously spent training points would be provided. Sure, it's "fake" money, but it's my "fake" money, darnit! (BTW, do we know that our pre-3.0 training credits haven't been refunded? I have not logged in yet, and I only have an estimate of a couple of my characters' bank balances.) It's in-game currency, easily obtained. I know it sucks having to re-purchase abilities (I took quite a hit myself) but it's not like there is much else to buy with credits. Ah, well, if that's what you think, allow me to introduce you to a little something we like to call the GTN.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zin-Zin Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Force Lift was base to Consulars. I have to retrain it on my Sage despite the fact I *bought* it months ago. I understand that some abilities were granted in say, the Healing tree, and thus need to be bought now as they're base abilities but I'm still being prompted to buy skills that were base before. That's BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heezdedjim Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Regardless of why or how it was done, or if it is intended or not, the reasonable thing to do right now, today, would be to hotfix it so that all skill training costs are zero, and leave it that way for 30 days. After that, they can announce that costs are coming back, and then roll them back in. They did something similar when there was a huge derp with the gear repair costs, and they compensated by reducing all costs severely for a month or two. It would do no harm to the game to zero them out temporarily, so that everyone can freely spec or respec their many existing characters after the huge changes to class balance, and they can bring it back later if they feel like it is needed long term. This also ought to be a trivial solution to implement, since they already did it for people who had the 12x boost. So they can just copy-paste that implementation and make it apply to everyone. Edited December 2, 2014 by Heezdedjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Hahahah I just logged on my merc for the first time today, and did the same as I'd done on my mando (both were identical mirrors). However for my merc, I only had to train new stuff. Long story short, my mando got screwed. Is this only affecting republic? Or just specific archetypes? Edited December 2, 2014 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 you know that skills that were moved out of your skill tree to the base class were NEVER paid for before right.. you put a skill point in which was FREE.... so technically you are paying for the FIRST time. And if that is the case, I would completely accept that. It could certainly be my ignorance only....I will look into this a bit deeper. To be clear....if I didn't pay credits before, I would be fine with paying credits now....I can still understand how folks might get upset over that, but I personally would be fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanJoGG Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Well, we will have to see. Some folks in game are saying it is the same (except for abilities removed), others are saying they have to pay. I am suspicious that they may have chosen a discipline they did not have before, and that is why they have to pay. So far my friends indicate that when you re-choose the same build you had before you get all of the abilities you had up to your current level....the ones you paid for. Sorry dude but your wrong - I was gunnery speck before patch and gunnery speck after patch and the skill trainer is charging me for standard commando abilities again such as charged bolts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts