Hate this new skill tree

[LordArtemis]

I think you posted in the wrong thread, and in the offchance you did, you have to realize that repaying for skills is a bug as evidence by the fact its not universal. For instance On the four toons I have checked so far, only one of them had to repay for skills.

 

I certainly hope that is the case. Like I said, it is promising to me that it seems, at least at this early juncture, that the changes are not being received negatively across the game, at least not in epic fashion, based on in game chat.

 

But folks are REALLY upset over the skill repurchase thing it seems.

 

I only mentioned the skill purchase because that seems to be the biggest complaint in game at the moment...combined with the lack of ability for some folks to do the solo part of forged alliances if they have already started it (abandoning it does not seem to work for some folks) and the confusion on how to get the revan statue.

Edited December 2, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Kianabamin]

It's NGE all over again.

BW can't handle players having too many choices so they limit what you can do now.

If Hybrids wasn't their intention from the beginning then maybe they should have designed the system they wanted from the start. If you give people choices.... well people will choose what they want.

If you don't want me to have options, don't give them to me in the first place.

[Ryllynyth]

It's NGE all over again.

 

Oh man, that was a good laugh. I needed that laugh. Thanks!

[NSStember]

But folks are REALLY upset over the skill repurchase thing it seems.

 

Hard to judge that by the forums because you will see a small group posting over and over. The vast majority of the player base never post on the forums and just quietly enjoy the game.

[Cordarn]

It's NGE all over again.

BW can't handle players having too many choices so they limit what you can do now.

If Hybrids wasn't their intention from the beginning then maybe they should have designed the system they wanted from the start. If you give people choices.... well people will choose what they want.

If you don't want me to have options, don't give them to me in the first place.

 

Hybrids were causing problems. Each expansion they would have to push the main abilities further up the skill trees because of hybrids. And no, you did not have much of a choice with hybrid, not if you wanted to be competitive. This new skill tree gives you the option to pick different utilities from everyone else giving you a an actual choice of what you want. Now whether their is a one build to rule them all build remains to be seen, but from what ive seen players will finally be specced noticeably different from each other. The new skill tree actually kind of reminds me of customizing your ship in gsf.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Cordarn

[Sarfux]

It's NGE all over again.

BW can't handle players having too many choices so they limit what you can do now.

If Hybrids wasn't their intention from the beginning then maybe they should have designed the system they wanted from the start. If you give people choices.... well people will choose what they want.

If you don't want me to have options, don't give them to me in the first place.

 

Talk about exaggerations!

[LordArtemis]

Hard to judge that by the forums because you will see a small group posting over and over. The vast majority of the player base never post on the forums and just quietly enjoy the game.

 

Its not the forums I am getting that from. It is in game chat, and that has been a pretty good barometer in the past.

 

Most folks do not post here. But many folks express complaints in game in general chat. This is one change (or bug, I hope) that many MANY folks are quite upset about in game.

[FlamingoChest]

Hybrids were causing problems. Each expansion they would have to push the main abilities further up the skill trees because of hybrids. And no, you did not have much of a choice with hybrid, not if you wanted to be competitive. This new skill tree gives you the option to pick different utilities from everyone else giving you a an actual choice of what you want. Now whether their is a one build to rule them all build remains to be seen, but from what ive seen players will finally be specced noticeably different from each other. The new skill tree actually kind of reminds me of customizing your ship in gsf.

 

 

No it doesnt think about it hybrids compared to now they have much LESS skills to purchase not to mention that if hybrids were such a problem then they shoulda used this bs *** system in the first place. I find it so far while playing that i have less passives activating, it sucks. And i cant even play the new expansion cause lord knows its sooo damn laggy. Game going to hell, first they went f2p just to save the game now they going in with this WoW knockoff of a system. Stupid stupid stupid. I did give all my stuff away already. But its dumb how BW losing a customer over it, oh well.

[TUXs]

Quitting would be too easy. Then we wouldn't have any trolls on the forums and no one mouthing off about how bad everything is.

 

Without those.. there would be very few posts to reply to.

 

Exactly!!! I appreciate the time people take to post emotional responses...they make the forums a much more lively place.

[LordArtemis]

It's NGE all over again.

BW can't handle players having too many choices so they limit what you can do now.

If Hybrids wasn't their intention from the beginning then maybe they should have designed the system they wanted from the start. If you give people choices.... well people will choose what they want.

If you don't want me to have options, don't give them to me in the first place.

 

I loved SWG pre CU/NGE, and have talked quite a bit about the NGE and its effect on SWG. I currently play the SWGEMU and still enjoy it.

 

That said, this does not feel to me like an "NGE" type change, at least not at the moment. I am going to be very basic here, but this is what happened when I logged in to SWG after the NGE hit....

 

My involved, in depth skill tree, based on my weapon use and fully customized to my liking was replaced with a completely linear ability system. Jedi became a playable class from level 1. Combat skills were taken away from Entertainers and CHs. All buff packs were gone, replaced by stims. Almost the ENTIRE GAME was nerfed in one way or another.

 

It was a massive change to the way the game played in almost every way possible.

 

Now, this is what happened when I logged in to this game today.

 

My Advanced Class build choice was refunded, and the skills associated with my advanced class were removed. When I rechose my build I received over 90 percent of my skills back. I lost a few things, gained a few things. Some abilities were adjusted a bit.

 

Overall the changes were more visual and structural than game changing. Almost as if they changed the GUI and little else.

 

Of course I do a bit less damage, but the mobs I face are easier to kill. My rotations are almost the same. I have a few new skills to play with.

 

 

So, no....for me this doesn't even come close to what the CU/NGE represents. Remember, I am just speaking for myself here. This is how I see it.

Edited December 2, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Elicas]

I logged in.

 

I disliked the changes to my main, spent an hour trying to get somewhere close to where my Merc was in 2.10 (and failing due to the new utility system) I got to Rishi, suffered a load of lag, DC'd a few times, swore profusely and unsubbed.

 

Cost me £12 to preorder SoR, took me ~2 hours to decide to save the sub and not bother any more. Saving me roughly £108 a year.

 

At least it wasn't a complete waste of money.

[TUXs]

Hybrids were causing problems. Each expansion they would have to push the main abilities further up the skill trees because of hybrids. And no, you did not have much of a choice with hybrid, not if you wanted to be competitive. This new skill tree gives you the option to pick different utilities from everyone else giving you a an actual choice of what you want. Now whether their is a one build to rule them all build remains to be seen, but from what ive seen players will finally be specced noticeably different from each other. The new skill tree actually kind of reminds me of customizing your ship in gsf.

EXACTLY!!!!

 

If you thought Hybrids were an issue before 3.0, imagine how bad it would have been had Bioware simply bumped up the skills again like they did with 2.0, throwing us a fluff tier we needed to pass through and 5 extra points to mess with...it would have been hell on them. I imagine Hybrids would have been the norm at that point.

 

The fact is, no Developer can be expected to design against the numerous combinations that a million+ players will try out...to expect them to attempt to balance the old skill trees is just ridiculous...I feel that this was a very needed change.

 

The best alternative to Disciplines would have been locking a tree once a player started in it, leading to even LESS customization than players have with Disciplines. Disciplines may not be the best option out there, but I like it better than the alternatives "I" can think of.

[TUXs]

I logged in.

 

I disliked the changes to my main, spent an hour trying to get somewhere close to where my Merc was in 2.10 (and failing due to the new utility system) I got to Rishi, suffered a load of lag, DC'd a few times, swore profusely and unsubbed.

 

Cost me £12 to preorder SoR, took me ~2 hours to decide to save the sub and not bother any more. Saving me roughly £108 a year.

 

At least it wasn't a complete waste of money.

Can I have ur stuff?! Please

[FlamingoChest]

Can I have ur stuff?! Please

 

stupid ***** stuff is bound when u equip it

[azudelphi]

stupid ***** stuff is bound when u equip it

 

Credits aren't bound.

 

I call dibs. Sorry TUXs.

[FlamingoChest]

Credits aren't bound.

 

I call dibs. Sorry TUXs.

 

said stuff not credits

[Brewski]

said stuff not credits

 

Can I have your credits?

[TUXs]

Credits aren't bound.

 

I call dibs. Sorry TUXs.

OMG! You jerk!!! This is my credit cache...go find ur own My toons are so poor they can't even pay attention...

[azudelphi]

said stuff not credits

 

inb4 debate defining "stuff"

[Larsenex]

LoL all the QQ here is funny. To the OP who said she did not like the sett-up..where have you been? Under a rock? This information has been out since OCTOBER!!

 

You could have NOT pre-ordered...

 

YOU COULD HAVE Cancelled your sub...

 

Instead you complain on opening day you knew nothing about it?

 

Oh and Hybrids are gone...good riddance.

 

Frankly this is a great Expac and I am very happy with it!

[Eldrenath]

The deeper I go into looking at these discipline trees, the more I like them--and the more freedom I feel I have now than I used to have based on my own playstyle. I fully recognize that hybrids are completely gone and that that stinks for some people. But as I've always played pure builds I like this a lot more. I always took all the "abilities" in a tree, so now I'm just getting them. No change there. But now there are things in my utility point options that used to be locked in tiers 2, 3, or higher of the old skill trees.

 

I know hybrid players hate this, and I understand why. But for me personally, I do honestly feel now like I have more choices. I automatically get all of the skills I always took anyway. I'm not seeing many missing skills. And now with utility points I can get a few neat things I never got before. I used to go straight up the tree, then put my remaining points into the other two trees, taking "2% alacrity boost" or "+3% main stat boost" type stuff, which was OK. But now instead of that, I get actual utility skills/passives, many of which I did NOT have access to before. Plus, the "leftover" or "out of tree" points always went to the same places while avoiding the stuff that only benefitted by going further up that tree (for example, stuff to speed up heals on a DPS toon were of little use). Now with utilities, I honestly want more of the skills than I have points to spend.

[LordArtemis]

To be fair, they didnt make all the changes because they wanted to introduce the dicipline system to remove the ability to make hybrids.....

 

They also made changes for the following reasons....

1) They wanted damage, healing and mitigation to be within internal targets so end game content would not be trivialized.

2) They wanted to make the leveling experience less of a "slog"

3) They did not like certainly abilities being used in rotations in different ways then they intended in PVE casual play.

 

It is number 3 I generally have issue with. That is a completely arbitrary change. There is no negative impact to the game IMO for unintended rotation usage, especially since they often added DPS, healing or mitigation to replace lost abilities. This was simply a "i dont like it, so you can't do it anymore" type of change.

 

...reminiscent of the old dev team. It is arrogance IMO that is not healthy.

 

I am not speaking to changes actually made for balance or unfair advantage, which, though I may not like are at least understandable.

 

This speaks to that "doesn't feel right" kind of change. Those kind of changes are toxic IMO.

Edited December 2, 2014 by LordArtemis

[CrutchCricket]

EXACTLY!!!!

 

If you thought Hybrids were an issue before 3.0, imagine how bad it would have been had Bioware simply bumped up the skills again like they did with 2.0, throwing us a fluff tier we needed to pass through and 5 extra points to mess with...it would have been hell on them. I imagine Hybrids would have been the norm at that point.

 

The fact is, no Developer can be expected to design against the numerous combinations that a million+ players will try out...to expect them to attempt to balance the old skill trees is just ridiculous...I feel that this was a very needed change.

 

The best alternative to Disciplines would have been locking a tree once a player started in it, leading to even LESS customization than players have with Disciplines. Disciplines may not be the best option out there, but I like it better than the alternatives "I" can think of.

Not really. There are several options better than what we have that destroy neither hybridization nor balance. Things like:

a) restricting the amount of points spent laterally across trees, effectively locking out the higher echelon of trees other than your main without sacrificing some cross-trained passives and abilities.

b) designing hybrid disciplines, if you must have such a system. All the dev control, none of the guilt.

 

Made a thread about it a while ago. Not that it helped much since by the time they announced it it was already "this is what we're doing, deal with it."

 

It's looking pretty bad from where I'm standing. Haven't had a chance to do combat yet but I'm not hopeful. Really it only confirms what I already knew, that games being arbitrarily changed for the sake of other people and I don't mix. 90% sure I'll be moving on after this month.

[Jadescythe]

To be fair, they didnt make all the changes because they wanted to introduce the dicipline system to remove the ability to make hybrids.....

 

They also made changes for the following reasons....

1) They wanted damage, healing and mitigation to be within internal targets so end game content would not be trivialized.

2) They wanted to make the leveling experience less of a "slog"

3) They did not like certainly abilities being used in rotations in different ways then they intended in PVE casual play.

 

It is number 3 I generally have issue with. That is a completely arbitrary change. There is no negative impact to the game IMO for unintended rotation usage, especially since they often added DPS, healing or mitigation to replace lost abilities. This was simply a "i dont like it, so you can't do it anymore" type of change.

 

...reminiscent of the old dev team. It is arrogance IMO that is not healthy.

 

I am not speaking to changes actually made for balance or unfair advantage, which, though I may not like are at least understandable.

 

This speaks to that "doesn't feel right" kind of change. Those kind of changes are toxic IMO.

 

I think you are misinterpreting the 3rd point you made. It wasn't that taking pieces from each tree was an issue, it was more just players having a hard time with classes because they were taking abilities that really weren't helping them. Like any spec that had a % endurance increase. Even at 30k HP, 3% is 900 extra HP.

 

But skills like this were at the bottom of trees and players were having issues leveling early on because they had an extra 50 HP instead of abilities that helped their spec. It isn't strictly necessary, but is a nice benefit to new players. I am yet to see something about the devs not wanting players to use some combination of abilities they find fun simply because they have the power to take them away.

[Zoom_VI]

My only problem with disciplines is that the game didn't launch with it.