tunewalker Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Honestly this battle I believe will come more down to manueverability, Manipulation and tactics then anything else. No one is strong enough to take on BOTH of the other factions and win. So the faction that moves fastest and most efficiently is the most likely to pit the other two against each other the best. The way to win is to let your enemies destroy each other and themselves in the process the group that can do that the best, is the group that will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Silenceo doesn't have dark nova troopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Silenceo doesn't have dark nova troopers. Variant of the Phase II. Very similar to how you get Rocket B2's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Honestly this battle I believe will come more down to manueverability, Manipulation and tactics then anything else. No one is strong enough to take on BOTH of the other factions and win. So the faction that moves fastest and most efficiently is the most likely to pit the other two against each other the best. The way to win is to let your enemies destroy each other and themselves in the process the group that can do that the best, is the group that will win. On commanders I think it will come down to Kilran vs Trench. I feel like they would operate more defensively than Grievous. Grievous = all offense Kilran seems mixed Trench = all defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 And folks, while I lack the time to elaborate I'd like to say that anything not stated or implied in Canon sources, e.g. Grievous body was handed over to the Inquisitorious is FanFiction and obviously no grounds for argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Variant of the Phase II. Very similar to how you get Rocket B2's. Is this anywhere stated? The name suggests they are a different model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Silenceo doesn't have dark nova troopers. Based on precedence, I believe he does... Otherwise he attacks with normal dark troopers and the exact same thing happens, they just take an extra 20 minutes finding their way around the ships . Besides, up to Sel on that one anyways Mr. Supreme Arbiter with no actual power over this round Dark Novatrooper Edited December 1, 2014 by StarSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) And folks, while I lack the time to elaborate I'd like to say that anything not stated or implied in Canon sources, e.g. Grievous body was handed over to the Inquisitorious is FanFiction and obviously no grounds for argument It is merely an assumption like many other things done through the Kaggath, nor did I say, *Yeah they got it,* I said it is possible they learned quite a bit about him due to that being their job, to turn/kill Jedi. Though the thought that the Inquisitorious would know nothing about Grievous is incorrect since the Inquisitorious was commissioned essentially right when Order 66 was, with the first Grand Inquisitor being recruited by Palpatine. It would of been odd for them to not have investigated and learned from grievous, since he did what they were intended to do. Side Note: Wiki Quote! "Dark novatroopers were a variant of the dark troopers, deadly next-generation stormtroopers battle droids used by the Galactic Empire." Definitely not PI's, and not large enough in the shoulders or height to be a variant of PIII. Either way, I have all 3 main types. Edited December 1, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Definitely not PI's, and not large enough in the shoulders or height to be a variant of PIII. Either way, I have all 3 main types. The Phase II was the primary stage of the Dark Trooper project anyways, so it makes sense that when it is referenced as being a variant, it'd be a variant of the main product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Dark Nova's will be permitted, fitting with previous Kaggaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) One thing I thought I would bring up *since it seems so quiet...* Is that buzz droids used to actually be repair droids. Granted, they wouldn't be used as thus right away, but if IG-88 proves successful in sending the signal from the Malevolence, it is entirely possible that he will learn what he can of the droids now under his control. If he studies the buzz droids he will likely find just such information and perhaps inform Admiral Trench. He might know before hand, but since he is a fleet commander and not a technician, not really a great chance of it. As for the phantoms, Nexus or not it will still take Lumiya plenty of time to prepare them first. As for the ones she threw out in rapid order, is it possible to *store* phantoms to be unleashed? I ask because it is stated multiple times that in order to create a phantom takes a long ritual and such. Side Note: After some further reading, it is stated that the creator of the technique made his home in the very asteroid that Lumiya's greatest feats with them are known. In other situations she seems to not use them as readily as you may think, perhaps indicating that there was something special about the asteroid, which Darth Victivus made home? Other than being a dark side nexus, since quite literally, that is the only time we see Lumiya summon more than a couple phantoms at a time. Even then, they dissipated after taking only a single hit, did they not? While it is quite a useful ability, I do not believe they will be as effective at eliminating either Fleet Commander as the PH wishes. On that note, would they not be dissipated by blaster bolts as well? If only I still had the novel where Lumiya summons all of those phantoms, so I could double check the scene for other means other than lightsabers destroying them... *Indicating that due to their easily destroyed nature being perhaps why they were not more widely used* More importantly, I do not believe Lumiya will have the time or concentration needed to summon so many phantoms, considering the space battle and the Malevolence being boarded rather early on. Which, since Heads of States can't die in the space battle, means she would have to depart to the planet below. Edited December 1, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Been busy today (Monday's my busy day), but I'm ready for more discussion. Let me just go back through some posts to see what needs to be countered, and then I'll get to my meatier arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Well they had statues of a Kaleesh warlord, and he realized it was a shrine to Grevious' old life... Alright, point. However, that does not mean the cybernetic implants in his brain were made public. This entire argument revolves around the Inquisitorious knowing of Grievous' cybernetic implants. But there is not grounds to state that they did. If they know of Grievous all they know is that he was a Kaleesh Warlord put into a cybernetic body. It is completely illogical for them to know of the implants, especially when Grievous himself did not know of them. If IG-88 is not aware of these implants, then there is no reason for us to discuss their hacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Alright, regarding the Force Phantoms, I wrote this counter argument up yesterday. Force Phantoms Counter: I’ll be honest, when I first saw this strategy put forth, I was baffled. It was very, very impressive. However, there are several flaws with it, which I will list and explain here: 1. Time and Energy Intensive. The ritual is an extremely laborious and taxing one that requires a great deal of time and effort to complete. It requires a great deal of time to find a proper host for the user’s influence, and it takes a great deal of energy to project Phantoms. Lumiya can overcome this, but it will take much time and energy to implement. 2. Boarding Parties. According to the SWTOR codex, using (and repelling, I believe) boarding parties has become an art form for the Sith Empire. Ship crews and marines, Sith, and Kilran are all fully aware of how to use and defeat boarding parties, as they were used very often during the GGW, Cold War, and later on. If Lumiya uses her Phantoms in this way, Kilran and the crew will be able to isolate and defeat them before serious damage can be done. 3. Identification. As has already been noted, Phantoms can be seen for what they are. Sensors can’t pick them, revealing their nature, they appear to non Force users as a strange haze, and Force users can see what they are and what they are connected to. By identifying them as apparitions, the Fist can respond appropriately. 4. Assassination. But let’s say that the Phantoms manage to lure Kilran’s Sith guards away. He still has Ventress at his side, as she would be used to feed him information about Grievous and Trench. If the Sith Warriors do come back as illusions, Ventress will see right through them and eliminate them with extreme prejudice, thus safeguarding the good Moff. It’s a good plan. It could work, if allowed. But these reasons listed are why I feel that they won’t work on the Fist. =========================== I'll get to my counters for IG-88 and the Shadow Droids later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Alright, point. However, that does not mean the cybernetic implants in his brain were made public. This entire argument revolves around the Inquisitorious knowing of Grievous' cybernetic implants. But there is not grounds to state that they did. If they know of Grievous all they know is that he was a Kaleesh Warlord put into a cybernetic body. It is completely illogical for them to know of the implants, especially when Grievous himself did not know of them. If IG-88 is not aware of these implants, then there is no reason for us to discuss their hacking. The alternate point I suggested was that perhaps as IG-88 approaches the Malevolence, if Grievous was to launch to confront him, that the advanced sensors both within him and the IG-2000 might be able to pick up the signal, if it truly is strong enough to command his droids so. Either way, if he manages to reach the Malevolence undetected hacking Grievous is moot, since it would come up in the first place. However, I would like to return peoples attention to the RK-720 Light Freighter that Soro Suub, one of the two halves of the Commerce Guild, designed and produced. It is stated to have a cloaking device, and since the IDD is aware of the general firepower and make of the enemy vessels *that they are CIS* Trench would likely approve of such a strategy. Installing it before the battle, since it is purely Soro Suub's creation, into IG-2000 *which IG-88 would love to have such a device I wager...* would make sense. However, due to it being a prototype they would only have the one cloaking device, leaving the Skiprays with just the jammers from Soro Suub's stock. After all, whenever Trench is brought into a fight something seems to have to do with cloaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Could somebody please post the numbers for all fighter types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 The alternate point I suggested was that perhaps as IG-88 approaches the Malevolence, if Grievous was to launch to confront him, that the advanced sensors both within him and the IG-2000 might be able to pick up the signal, if it truly is strong enough to command his droids so. Either way, if he manages to reach the Malevolence undetected hacking Grievous is moot, since it would come up in the first place. However, I would like to return peoples attention to the RK-720 Light Freighter that Soro Suub, one of the two halves of the Commerce Guild, designed and produced. It is stated to have a cloaking device, and since the IDD is aware of the general firepower and make of the enemy vessels *that they are CIS* Trench would likely approve of such a strategy. Installing it before the battle, since it is purely Soro Suub's creation, into IG-2000 *which IG-88 would love to have such a device I wager...* would make sense. However, due to it being a prototype they would only have the one cloaking device, leaving the Skiprays with just the jammers from Soro Suub's stock. After all, whenever Trench is brought into a fight something seems to have to do with cloaking. Again, where are you getting jammers? I don't see that as something SoroSuub provides. And I don't really think cloaking devices constitute equipment that should be granted as a pre-battle upgrade. It's not something you can just slap on a ship, especially one not designed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Alright, regarding the Force Phantoms, I wrote this counter argument up yesterday. Force Phantoms Counter: I’ll be honest, when I first saw this strategy put forth, I was baffled. It was very, very impressive. However, there are several flaws with it, which I will list and explain here: 1. Time and Energy Intensive. The ritual is an extremely laborious and taxing one that requires a great deal of time and effort to complete. It requires a great deal of time to find a proper host for the user’s influence, and it takes a great deal of energy to project Phantoms. Lumiya can overcome this, but it will take much time and energy to implement. 2. Boarding Parties. According to the SWTOR codex, using (and repelling, I believe) boarding parties has become an art form for the Sith Empire. Ship crews and marines, Sith, and Kilran are all fully aware of how to use and defeat boarding parties, as they were used very often during the GGW, Cold War, and later on. If Lumiya uses her Phantoms in this way, Kilran and the crew will be able to isolate and defeat them before serious damage can be done. 3. Identification. As has already been noted, Phantoms can be seen for what they are. Sensors can’t pick them, revealing their nature, they appear to non Force users as a strange haze, and Force users can see what they are and what they are connected to. By identifying them as apparitions, the Fist can respond appropriately. 4. Assassination. But let’s say that the Phantoms manage to lure Kilran’s Sith guards away. He still has Ventress at his side, as she would be used to feed him information about Grievous and Trench. If the Sith Warriors do come back as illusions, Ventress will see right through them and eliminate them with extreme prejudice, thus safeguarding the good Moff. It’s a good plan. It could work, if allowed. But these reasons listed are why I feel that they won’t work on the Fist. =========================== I'll get to my counters for IG-88 and the Shadow Droids later. A sound plan, which reminds me. This is for the most part pre-ground deployment, correct? If so, that means that it is very possible that there will be Inquisitors aboard the Vengeance, which all wear amulets making them invisible in the force. Since the Phantoms are entirely of the force, is it possible that the Inquisitors would then be invisible to the Phantoms? If so, if Jerec is able to identify the threat *which while no direct examples of him encountering it, but deep research might at least allow him to suggest a solution* the Inquisitors could be ordered to hunt down and eliminate the Phantoms. If they have a force signature this is made even easier since the Inquisitors are experienced Jedi Hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Could somebody please post the numbers for all fighter types. I don't know what the others have, but the Fist has 3145 fighters, 50 of them are fully loaded Fury's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Oh, on the note of Grievous chasing IG in a fighter. That's not something he does often. As far as I'm aware, he usually takes his ship if he needs to flee a battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) IDD Fighters: Vengeance 120 Vindicator 72 x 16 = 1152 Total 1272 Split of 4-1-1 *No strikes this time so all standard ordering* 1272/6= 212 4x212=848 TIE/D Automated 212 Skiprays 212 Shadow Droids 4-1-1 divide is standard Imperial division of star fighters by their category within an Imperial wing *72 star fighters*. Fighter - Bomber - Interceptor/Elite As for the PH, theirs are on the front page: Fighter Classes: Droid tri-fighter [1,872] Bomber Class: Hyena-class bomber [624] While the IDD fighters are few, it is not to be forgotten that each Shadow Droid is an Imperial Ace, and Skiprays are crewed by the finest in the galaxy *quotes on Page 2 of this thread* not to mention Skiprays are often referred to as *pocket corvettes*. As for the TIE/D's, keep in mind that they will be linked to the Shadow Droids, essentially eliminating their weaknesses and bolstering their coordination and precision. Edited December 1, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 A sound plan, which reminds me. This is for the most part pre-ground deployment, correct? If so, that means that it is very possible that there will be Inquisitors aboard the Vengeance, which all wear amulets making them invisible in the force. Since the Phantoms are entirely of the force, is it possible that the Inquisitors would then be invisible to the Phantoms? If so, if Jerec is able to identify the threat *which while no direct examples of him encountering it, but deep research might at least allow him to suggest a solution* the Inquisitors could be ordered to hunt down and eliminate the Phantoms. If they have a force signature this is made even easier since the Inquisitors are experienced Jedi Hunters. Well, I think Organizations come from their spheres of influence, so I don't think they would be on the ships. Most likely a few would be on the planet, because I recall them having operations on Kaas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Well, I think Organizations come from their spheres of influence, so I don't think they would be on the ships. Most likely a few would be on the planet, because I recall them having operations on Kaas. Yes, True, but I do believe I receive some generic Inquisitors as part of my ground force much like you receive Imperial Operatives. I am not saying I have many, mind you, but without spoilers that they would be there since they followed Jerec from Prakith, which he was on for a... Special occasion... I do believe Sel said that piece would be included in the narrative for the Space battle scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Yes, True, but I do believe I receive some generic Inquisitors as part of my ground force much like you receive Imperial Operatives. I am not saying I have many, mind you, but without spoilers that they would be there since they followed Jerec from Prakith, which he was on for a... Special occasion... I do believe Sel said that piece would be included in the narrative for the Space battle scenario. Oh, OK. Well, if Sel's including anything, maybe she can slip in Dooku's study of a special Sith ritual, which prevents him from participating in the space battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Oh, OK. Well, if Sel's including anything, maybe she can slip in Dooku's study of a special Sith ritual, which prevents him from participating in the space battle. Or, or! He could just use his Solar Sailor * i think the model was...* to go to his HQ on the ground and leave the *probably as he would describe it...* "Petty Squabbling" to his Admiral while he begins planning his campaign on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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