Silenceo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 You misunderstand, my point was that Trench can't afford to keep his best bodyguard by his side, Desann will be dispatched, and once done any number of impersonators could be projected onto the bridge and assassinate Trench before anyone can react. Neither the dark troopers, not any Inquisitors will be quick enough to react. And I'm sure a Force User of Lumiya's calibre will see straight through their illusions. Noting that the small number of dark troopers on board will be easy to avoid, and if any Force Phantoms are lost they can be re-projected. Competent yes, capable of taking on Sith Lords? No. Desann is not a mindless brute, while he is not as well versed as Jerec, he likely would suspect a trap which is why I brought up the Inquisitors. Nor could Lumiya, or anyone really, see through their ability to be invisible in the force because it isn't really an ability. It comes from the amulet that they wear that is essentially part of an animal that hunts force sensitive prey if I recall correctly. As for the Dark Troopers they will actually be rather quick to note that the phantoms are not authorized personnel and open fire. It was said earlier that they are detectable by scanners, but on infrared and such they are simply not there, correct? That is an over complicated way of saying that Dark Troopers will not find them within their authorized personnel database and open fire. As for re-projecting a phantom, weren't they destroyed upon well... destruction? Meaning she would have to build new ones essentially taxing even more energy. As for the Imperial Marines, their strength here lies in the sheer number of them that there are, and that a hail of blaster bolts tends to solve a lot of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Probably not, but I am sure Kilran does. However, if that was to be how it went down in such a concentration they would be hailed with extreme fire from the capital ships themselves since Fury's are actually not that small of targets. Throw in tractor beams, missiles, ect, and they wouldn't be able to do much in such a formation. The thing to remember is that Kilran surely will see the IDD capital ships as a huge threat due to the Vengeance, but fleet wise he would likely worry about the PH more. Knowing Kilran, he actually might try to stay away from the Vengeance and instead try to goad it to wade through the PH force. Otherwise I do not really see Kilran as charging one fleet with his most elite units and leaving himself open to the other fleet. It is very likely he would try a mostly defensive formation with strikes erupting out at opportune times. Something Trench could deal with easily enough, defensively anyhow. However, even if they did all charge at the IDD fighters, the Tartans could easily rip them apart with that easy of a target, not to mention all concentrated into one sector. It is good to note however that the EMP guns used by Shadow Droids are capable of completely piercing shields and disabling systems. In that case, if they strike first they might be able to deactivate the EMP AoE weapon that the Fury's have equipped. That strategy was more of a joke, I don't expect the Fury's to go in and try to solo a fleet. Your depiction is exactly the strategy I am working on, so I'll elaborate on it later. Oh, and Fury quotes are to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Well that is a point. We haven't actually allowed any such modifications in the past. Probably easier than retrofitting Thunderclaps to operate using Isotope-5. And Aurbere, nice quoting that one. I can hear the Imperial officer in my head even now. Though I do believe there actually have been such vessels before... You and I both know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 That strategy was more of a joke, I don't expect the Fury's to go in and try to solo a fleet. Your depiction is exactly the strategy I am working on, so I'll elaborate on it later. Oh, and Fury quotes are to come. Can't take any chances when anything could be counted for points among these ramblings of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think we should get a ruling on this cloaking device. As has been stated several times in the past, it's not something you slap on a ship. The IG-2000 isn't even designed to use a cloaking device. Besides, no ship that small has a cloaking device. They were expressly forbidden in mine, but it's slightly different here. I don't believe we've had to deal with a case like this yet. In my opinion, as a leadership craft the IG-2000 has separate rules to the other vessels. In this case I'll allow it a cloaking device, if only to protect it from the massive array of special capabilities that a ship like a Fury has, it seems fair that a supplier would wish to protect such a crucial asset as IG-88 like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 They were expressly forbidden in mine, but it's slightly different here. I don't believe we've had to deal with a case like this yet. In my opinion, as a leadership craft the IG-2000 has separate rules to the other vessels. In this case I'll allow it a cloaking device, if only to protect it from the massive array of special capabilities that a ship like a Fury has, it seems fair that a supplier would wish to protect such a crucial asset as IG-88 like that. Does that give the Soulless One a cloaking device as well? Thanks to Imperial Intelligence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 1. What tools? She's using a Force ability not building a droid. There is no "apparatus" involved as far as we know. 2. Fair enough, but I don't believe that changes the fact that the crew is outmatched. 3. All she needs to do is keep Ventress busy, then impale Kilran. And that would be overkill. 1. I'm pretty sure she has to use hosts to draw on their energy to project the illusion. See here: Force phantoms were the result of a complex Sith ritual that was dependent on the availability of a subject, sentient or otherwise, with sufficient mental facility and vitality to sustain the influence of the initiator. Said subject also perishes upon the death of the phantom. Is Lumiya different in her application? 2. Oh sure, but Kilran has the advantage of experience and cunning. Enough to put the Phantoms in a position to destroy them. Sure they move through walls, but their intentions will be obvious the longer they remain on the ship. So he can deduce their intentions and set a trap for them. 3. If the apparition appears on the bridge, Kilran or whoever sees it will know what it is and get him out of dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 They were expressly forbidden in mine, but it's slightly different here. I don't believe we've had to deal with a case like this yet. In my opinion, as a leadership craft the IG-2000 has separate rules to the other vessels. In this case I'll allow it a cloaking device, if only to protect it from the massive array of special capabilities that a ship like a Fury has, it seems fair that a supplier would wish to protect such a crucial asset as IG-88 like that. for IG-2000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Does that give the Soulless One a cloaking device as well? Thanks to Imperial Intelligence... And Ventress' ship? Thanks to Sith Intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 And Ventress' ship? Thanks to Sith Intelligence. Yes actually, all Cipher vessels. It was standard issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Does that give the Soulless One a cloaking device as well? Thanks to Imperial Intelligence... Dunno, documented cases? If so, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) And Ventress' ship? Thanks to Sith Intelligence. They didn't invent their own cloaking device! Side Note: If it was so simple, why was I unable to get it from the Inquisitorious earlier? Bah, oh well... Edited December 2, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Yes actually, all Cipher vessels. It was standard issue. Oh, speaking of Cipher Agents, would any be piloting their Phantoms (I assume that was standard as well) in this battle? And would they have upgrades like the Fury's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Oh, speaking of Cipher Agents, would any be piloting their Phantoms (I assume that was standard as well) in this battle? And would they have upgrades like the Fury's? I guess? Kinda risky though, I don't see many actually doing it. They were kind of freelance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I guess? Kinda risky though, I don't see many actually doing it. They were kind of freelance. The IDD and PH are invading the heart of the Empire. If the Minister or Keeper tell them to get in their ships and help out, they'll do it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 1. I'm pretty sure she has to use hosts to draw on their energy to project the illusion. See here: Force phantoms were the result of a complex Sith ritual that was dependent on the availability of a subject, sentient or otherwise, with sufficient mental facility and vitality to sustain the influence of the initiator. Said subject also perishes upon the death of the phantom. Is Lumiya different in her application? 2. Oh sure, but Kilran has the advantage of experience and cunning. Enough to put the Phantoms in a position to destroy them. Sure they move through walls, but their intentions will be obvious the longer they remain on the ship. So he can deduce their intentions and set a trap for them. 3. If the apparition appears on the bridge, Kilran or whoever sees it will know what it is and get him out of dodge.1. You misunderstand, Lumiya doesn't have the hosts on hand, she merely searches the galaxy for them and they unwittingly have their powers siphoned. Therefore all she needs is a brief period to locate them. 2. True, but remember they are merely a distraction. I think I shall, when I have time, post a revised argument to cover all these points in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The IDD and PH are invading the heart of the Empire. If the Minister or Keeper tell them to get in their ships and help out, they'll do it, right? Well yes, but are they worth it? Sure, they could infiltrate vessels and that would be ******, but I don't think he'd actually let them dogfight. Stealth infiltration might be something you'd want to look into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 1. You misunderstand, Lumiya doesn't have the hosts on hand, she merely searches the galaxy for them and they unwittingly have their powers siphoned. Therefore all she needs is a brief period to locate them. 2. True, but remember they are merely a distraction. I think I shall, when I have time, post a revised argument to cover all these points in general. 1. That's more or less what I was referring to. She's going to have to find some good hosts to use. So that will take some time, which increments with each Phantom she wants to summon. 2. Of course. Fair enough, and I will be sure to counter them in the usual spectacular fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Well yes, but are they worth it? Sure, they could infiltrate vessels and that would be ******, but I don't think he'd actually let them dogfight. Stealth infiltration might be something you'd want to look into. *ever so subtly motions towards the quotes concerning Imperial Marines, even though it isn't subtle at all...* Granted, they are quite skilled, but 1 agent vs many Imperial Marines from the Galactic Empire I think would be enough to discourage further attempts. Though if multiple board a vessel, it would depend on which vessel to see the reaction and defenses and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 I don't think every agent had a Phantom, in fact I think Cipher 9 was the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Dunno, documented cases? If so, sure. I was kidding, giving everyone cloaking devices is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Well yes, but are they worth it? Sure, they could infiltrate vessels and that would be ******, but I don't think he'd actually let them dogfight. Stealth infiltration might be something you'd want to look into. I will look into that. I've already come up with something, actually. Thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I don't think every agent had a Phantom, in fact I think Cipher 9 was the only one. Not all Phantoms, but they all had personal crafts. And for Ciphers (And certain watchers) cloaking devices were standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I don't think every agent had a Phantom, in fact I think Cipher 9 was the only one. According to the website, Phantoms were given to only the most trustworthy agents. They are also the most advanced fighter in galactic history by that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Not all Phantoms, but they all had personal crafts. And for Ciphers (And certain watchers) cloaking devices were standard.Do we have evidence of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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