Kaggath Battlegrounds Semi-Finals: IDD vs Fist of the Empire vs Phantom Hegemony

[Aurbere]

But it is so ironic that a character that tends to say, "I am not a droid!" to get hacked.

 

I wonder what your plan is though, for the most part the Fist would have to wade into the PH fleet to enact most counter plans.

 

Incorrect, actually. But I need to finish it up before I post it. Gotta make sure everything is right and true.

[Beniboybling]

I actually am a bit disappointed Beni, not as awe inspiring as I had anticipated.

 

1. How would they detect him exactly? To download into such simplistic minds as your fighters it would be almost instantaneous, meaning no return communication or update from them, they would likely just drop off the radar as a friendly as it disconnected from the PH fleet and joined up with the IDD fighters, granted it wouldn't be in the Droid Meld so as to not overwhelm it, but they are effective enough without it. It is too bad I was mistaken about the IG-2000 though, I had assumed it had jamming/cloaking tech but after further investigation I found none... Unless I missed it? Wolf?

 

2. I heavily disagree with the Soulless One having superior firepower, shielding, OR maneuverability. The majority of the IG-2000 was dedicated to these exact systems. Not to mention that while Grievous is indeed a good pilot, he still has organic limits in the sense he can not pull certain maneuvers due to the G-Forces. While IG-88 has been shown to be able to view things in slow motion, digest data at an incredible rate, and perform moves that would leave even Grievous spinning. Even then though, Grievous is no Boba Fett, please do not compare him to the Fett Man. Slave I >> Soulless One.

 

3. What pilots Beni? They are droids, except for the Soulless One. They will not be reset, and even if they could be reset to regain them, it would not be a few mere seconds to do so. It is essentially all of your fighter compliment defecting to the IDD. As for erasing the Sentience programming, this part is just opinion, but I do not believe that to be as simple as a factory reset...

 

However I would argue I do not need them to nor want them to fire upon the PH since soon all of the Ph droid forces in space will belong to the IDD. With the combined might the Fist would crumble.

 

The only real counter you proposed was that Grievous would come after him in the Soulless One, which would quickly turn against him. If other PH droid fighters are in the vicinity they would soon turn on Grievous, and granted he would likely survive, but it would give IG-88 all the time he needs. Not to mention that I mentioned earlier that if he was to head for the Malevolance he would have 2 Skiprays flanking him which are noted as pocket corvettes, though unless the jamming argument was defeated during this posts construction, they would be able to jam enemy sensors en route. Should they land on the Malevolence it is game over.

 

As for the Rescounts and Munificients, they could be reset to regain their allegiance to the PH, except all that man them are droids as well which would have been transferred as well. If even a single droid capital ship is turned, a large chunk of your compliment will go to. If the Malevolent goes, all of them turn. It really is that simple. Nor do I really see any reason as to how Grievous would be able to stop IG-88, not to mention him getting to his fighter would take time as well.

 

Anyways, enough ranting...

1. They would pick up on the transmissions being sent, and it would be quite obvious when all the droids around it get hacked. Unless IG-88 has some means of masking his transmissions, they will be picked up.

 

2. I'm afraid its not a matter of debate. The Soulless has more laser cannons and is coated in impervium which as the name suggests can only be penetrated by an en masse barrage, something IG-88 lacks.

 

And that didn't seem an issue for Boba Fett, a full organic, superior skill and more importantly speed will win out.

 

And as I said, Grievous has all the droid advantages IG-88 enjoys, his reflexes are superior to most Jedi. He has contended with the lightning fast style of Mace Windu and can move faster than the eye can see. He'll manage.

 

I see little evidence that suggests Boba Fett is a superior pilot to Grievous.

 

Furthermore if IG-88 is on the offensive he'll have the home field advantage thanks to the Munificents. Who I should reiterate do not have droid brains and therefore it is unlikely they can be hacked in any real way.

 

3. All of the Hegemony's ships have droids on board, droids that are not linked to the droid brains and therefore cannot be hacked. The droid brains are of course accessible for the purpose of installation and maintenance. Noting only the Recusants are equipped with droid brains, the best IG-88 could do with the others is screw with the control panels.

 

And a wipe should suffice, that would erase any new programming and restore defaults. Noting that performing that on a computer would almost certainly erase any viruses present on the system. Same should happen here.

 

And as I explained, time is a luxury the Hegemony has, they are at no risk of losing the fleet.

 

4. I don't see how landing on the Malevolence would be anything other than game over for IG-88, he'd be cornered in the hangar and Grievous would be sent to dispatch him personally before he can reach any control terminals. In fact Grievous will not have to, he'll just allow a carbonite war droid to reduce IG-88 to a statue, then put him on a wall.

 

I believe I provided enough counters to neutralise your argument, identify the threat, eliminate it, reset the droid brains.

[Beniboybling]

Concerning "hacking Grievous". Lawls no I'm afraid. As Aurbere pointed out Grievous has an organic brain, which effectively acts as the computer controlling the rest of his body. IG-88 cannot hack into wires, he cannot hack into gears, he cannot hack into metal. The only way he can control Grievous' body is by hacking into the device that sends the commands i.e. Grievous' brain. Grievous' brain is organic, IG-88 is therefore incapable of hacking him.

 

Its a shame however, that given that the IDD has no knowledge of Grievous' cyborg body, that they will not even try to attempt this. As a failed attempt would be the perfect way to eliminate the droid.

[Canino]

Controlled by the brain.

 

So just to jump on this, I agree with Aurbere here. Everything is controlled from his brain. So overload it.

 

All Grevious has are his vital organs, everything else is robotic. So, his brain would be connected to a robotic/automated nervous system. Overloading his brain would be simple, and potentially fatal. Send a painful signal and make it strong- that's it. It doesn't need to control Grevious at all. Just give him the world worst headache, and watch him claw his head to rip his brain out.

 

Once done, either leave the signal, taking him out of the fight, or send another. This second signal would use the first as a distraction, and slip right through his distracted brain, into his limbs. From there, he lobs off his own head. Say goodbye

[Beniboybling]

So just to jump on this, I agree with Aurbere here. Everything is controlled from his brain. So overload it.

 

All Grevious has are his vital organs, everything else is robotic. So, his brain would be connected to a robotic/automated nervous system. Overloading his brain would be simple, and potentially fatal. Send a painful signal and make it strong- that's it. It doesn't need to control Grevious at all. Just give him the world worst headache, and watch him claw his head to rip his brain out.

 

Once done, either leave the signal, taking him out of the fight, or send another. This second signal would use the first as a distraction, and slip right through his distracted brain, into his limbs. From there, he lobs off his own head. Say goodbye

The issue is that in an absence of any knowledge on Grievous, any weaknesses he might have won't be known to the IDD, and they'd need solid information to launch what, if fails, would be a suicide mission.

 

Really boarding the Malevolence is a suicide mission in general.

[Aurbere]

So just to jump on this, I agree with Aurbere here. Everything is controlled from his brain. So overload it.

 

All Grevious has are his vital organs, everything else is robotic. So, his brain would be connected to a robotic/automated nervous system. Overloading his brain would be simple, and potentially fatal. Send a painful signal and make it strong- that's it. It doesn't need to control Grevious at all. Just give him the world worst headache, and watch him claw his head to rip his brain out.

 

Once done, either leave the signal, taking him out of the fight, or send another. This second signal would use the first as a distraction, and slip right through his distracted brain, into his limbs. From there, he lobs off his own head. Say goodbye

 

Wow, that's just... wow.

 

Overloading his cybernetics would just disable them. At best you shut down his limbs, and then he gets the parts repaired and is put back in business.

[Silenceo]

1. They would pick up on the transmissions being sent, and it would be quite obvious when all the droids around it get hacked. Unless IG-88 has some means of masking his transmissions, they will be picked up.

 

2. I'm afraid its not a matter of debate. The Soulless has more laser cannons and is coated in impervium which as the name suggests can only be penetrated by an en masse barrage, something IG-88 lacks.

 

And that didn't seem an issue for Boba Fett, a full organic, superior skill and more importantly speed will win out.

 

And as I said, Grievous has all the droid advantages IG-88 enjoys, his reflexes are superior to most Jedi. He has contended with the lightning fast style of Mace Windu and can move faster than the eye can see. He'll manage.

 

I see little evidence that suggests Boba Fett is a superior pilot to Grievous.

 

Furthermore if IG-88 is on the offensive he'll have the home field advantage thanks to the Munificents. Who I should reiterate do not have droid brains and therefore it is unlikely they can be hacked in any real way.

 

3. All of the Hegemony's ships have droids on board, droids that are not linked to the droid brains and therefore cannot be hacked. The droid brains are of course accessible for the purpose of installation and maintenance. Noting only the Recusants are equipped with droid brains, the best IG-88 could do with the others is screw with the control panels.

 

And a wipe should suffice, that would erase any new programming and restore defaults. Noting that performing that on a computer would almost certainly erase any viruses present on the system. Same should happen here.

 

And as I explained, time is a luxury the Hegemony has, they are at no risk of losing the fleet.

 

4. I don't see how landing on the Malevolence would be anything other than game over for IG-88, he'd be cornered in the hangar and Grievous would be sent to dispatch him personally before he can reach any control terminals. In fact Grievous will not have to, he'll just allow a carbonite war droid to reduce IG-88 to a statue, then put him on a wall.

 

I believe I provided enough counters to neutralise your argument, identify the threat, eliminate it, reset the droid brains.

 

1. Afraid I do not have many quotes for IG-2000, though I wouldn't put it past him.

 

2. If you count the ion cannon with the laser cannons the offensive weaponry is about equal actually. Not to mention IG-2000 could make use of his tractor beams to cut down on Grievous' evasive maneuvers. Durability for star fighters only go so far.

 

As for Boba Fett, he actually was nearly defeated by IG-2000, but he managed to snag him with his own tractor beams and fire volley's of missiles into it with it being unable to evade. As for the Munificients they are manned by Droids. We see this plenty often during the Clone Wars. Heck, turning B1's will be incredibly easy.

 

3. B1's also tend to have those pesky antennae intended to receive transmissions... Nuff said...

 

In order to perform that wipe they would need a time of calm. Which they will not have due to the Fist. They are very much at risk of losing their fleet Beni, while the IDD fleet won't engage in full until the majority of the conversion is done, nor will they really take any losses due to their overall tankyness that both the Vindicators and Praetor II possesses.

 

4. As I said, if IG-88 was to land on the Malevolence he would have 2 Skiprays full of Dark Nova Troopers to aide him against Grievous. Don't get me wrong, IG-88 wouldn't be easy to be put down even by Grievous, but in the end Grievous would win a 1 vs 1. However, with the Dark Nova Troopers... Grievous is out matched.

 

Though I do not see IG-88 being frozen by carbonite. If he can see a BLASTER BOLT in slow motion... I am sure he can evade a carbonite stream and either disable the wardroid or take it over.

 

I am still not convinced though, your 'counter' doesn't really counter IG-88's abilities that are being put on display here. And playing clean up is not going to win the fight.

[Silenceo]

Wow, that's just... wow.

 

Overloading his cybernetics would just disable them. At best you shut down his limbs, and then he gets the parts repaired and is put back in business.

 

Aurbere, if that happens during the dog fight, there will be no repairing it. He will either crash, or glide off into space never to be seen again.

 

As for being unable to hack Grievous, Beni, that would merely be a bonus, the main thing IG-88 would be doing is making use of that antennae of his for a few seconds. That is it. Anything else is merely gravy. Though, do not underestimate IG-88 aboard the Malevolence. It most certainly is not a suicide mission.

[Selenial]

Wow, that's just... wow.

 

Overloading his cybernetics would just disable them. At best you shut down his limbs, and then he gets the parts repaired and is put back in business.

 

Shutting him down is all they need, especially if he's in a fighter.

[Silenceo]

The issue is that in an absence of any knowledge on Grievous, any weaknesses he might have won't be known to the IDD, and they'd need solid information to launch what, if fails, would be a suicide mission.

 

Really boarding the Malevolence is a suicide mission in general.

 

It actually is very possible that the Inquisitorious just might have that in their archives. Since their entire job is to hunt down and turn/kill Jedi, it wouldn't be all that far fetched for them to have examined/cataloged Grievous' remains in order to study how he defeated Jedi so often and such. Its right within their "field of study".

 

Even if it wasn't within the Inquisitorious specific Archives, they would still have the generic imperial archives to use which could shed some light. However, it might be as simple as IG-2000 is flying towards the Malevolent and senses a strong ping coming directly towards him and he decides to hack it to boost his signal to the entirety of the fleet.

 

An antennae of that strength, capable of controlling droids by thought, very well would be putting out a strong signal, yet likely nearly impossible to jam. The Republic likely never attacked him via that method since virus's would be useless due to the organic brain, and it was likely too strong to easily jam.

[Canino]

The issue is that in an absence of any knowledge on Grievous, any weaknesses he might have won't be known to the IDD, and they'd need solid information to launch what, if fails, would be a suicide mission.

 

Really boarding the Malevolence is a suicide mission in general.

 

Really? I doubt that.

 

First you have the Inquisitorius, a group of people that hunted down people who were "already dead". They found Jedi nobody could find, and searched the entire galaxy for them. That shows me that they have a serious intel network. Sure II helped. But the inquisitoriius is a branch of II, so they would have their own information. Especially on a pawn of Palps.

 

Then you have Trench, who worked with Grievous, and would likely know how he commands. He would see teh formation of ships, and how the fight was progressing, and would likely realize it was Grievous, if he ddin't know already.

 

Finally, you have Jerec. A Jedi during the reign of Grievous, and someone who devoted his life to learning secrets about all aspects of life. He would undoubtedly know the story of Grievous, and likely things nobody else knew.

 

And who said anything about boarding the Malevolence? I didn't. I'm just pointing out it is possible.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Canino

[Aurbere]

Shutting him down is all they need, especially if he's in a fighter.

 

If he isn't in a fighter?

 

And, again, let's not get bogged down on this discussion. My plans, which will be posted tomorrow, should put this debate to rest.

[Silenceo]

Really? I doubt that.

 

First you have the Inquisitorius, a group of people that hunted down people who were "already dead". They found Jedi nobody could find, and searched the entire galaxy for them. That shows me that they have a serious intel network. Sure II helped. But the inquisitoriius is a branch of II, so they would have their own information. Especially on a pawn of Palps.

 

Then you have Trench, who worked with Grievous, and would likely know how he commands. He would see teh formation of ships, and how the fight was progressing, and would likely realize it was Grievous, if he ddin't know already.

 

Finally, you have Jerec. A Jedi during the reign of Grievous, and someone who devoted his life to learning secrets about all aspects of life. He would undoubtedly know the story of Grievous, and likely things nobody else knew.

 

And who said anything about boarding the Malevolence? I didn't. I'm just pointing out it is possible.

 

This. Very much this.

 

Though I mentioned him boarding the Malevolence in order to transmit his signal to the whole of the PH fleet, with an escort of Dark Nova Troopers of course.

 

Side Note: If he isn't in a fighter when it happens... Well... We have all seen RoTS.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Silenceo

[Canino]

I'd would like to apologize now for any spelling errors I make or have made. I'm extremely exhausted right now, and it doesn't help that my computer is lagging severely.

 

So, again, I'm sorry. I'm literate, I promise!

[Silenceo]

Also, wouldn't the IDD know beforehand that Grievous would be part of the PH, and assume from that they would guess he would be the likely commander of the fleet.

 

I ask because aren't they given the name and basic info concerning Head of State and Second in Command?

[StarSquirrel]

I'm going to backtrack (assuming it is backtracking) and go back to the IG-88 vs. PH argument real quick.

 

As enthusiastic as Sil is about converting small numbers of fighters, I tend to get stuck on IG-88's 1 hit KO move.

 

Beni's argument that Grievous could discover IG-88's plan and stop him as soon as he starts the sentience download relies on IG-88 using it prior to his boarding the Malevolence, something I think he'll avoid. But, and this is imo much more likely, IG-88 could pilot IG-2000 right into the Malevolence (directing an IG-2000 enhanced hacking assault on the systems to scramble those fancy sensors Beni mentioned) and discharge a couple Dark Nova Troopers.

 

He could then land somewhere in the Malevolence (its a big ship, easy to avoid Grievous), and begin the download while Dark Nova Troopers (droids themselves I might add so more can fit in IG-2000 than usual) assault the ship. As Grievous dispatches the direct assault on his ship, IG-88 is onboard and captures the ship as well as all the PH droid naval forces right out from under his noseless face. They dispatch Grievous (though he is pretty darn good as escapes so he'd probably make it planetside) and the PH + IDD forces are now arrayed against the FE. Combined, even out of position, they have the firepower to annihilate the FE.

 

Sil mentioned this a while back, I've wracked my brain with ways the PH could stop this, but I don't see it. IG-88 would hold his sentience program till he finds the biggest, most powerful computer he can (Malevolence) and instead just scramble sensors with basic hacking attacks augmented by the IG-2000's advanced computer and communications equipment until he got to it, then take everything at once.

 

Also, Sil I was so ready to back you up on the Shadow Droid thing... But glad you didn't need it.

[Aurbere]

OK, massive assumptions are being made here regarding Grievous' 'popularity'.

 

No one knew that Grievous was the Kaleesh warlord except Dooku, Sidious, and their inner circle. He was a complete mystery to the galaxy. Upon Grievous' death, everything within him was incinerated due to the oils used to preserve his fleshy substances. So even if the Inquisitorious knew of Grievous, they would find an empty shell burned from the inside. All that can be gained would be knowledge that Grievous was burnt from within.

 

Further, Grievous' body was taken and given to a scientist.

 

And why would Palpatine tell the Inquisitors about Grievous? What would they have to gain? He has no reason to divulge intimate details about his pawn. And even if he did, I doubt he was aware of the cybernetic implants, especially since Grievous certainly wasn't. More to that, Palpatine was not personally involved in it, he merely ordered Dooku to find a general.

 

There are a lot of implications to the exact opposite of what is being put forth for the Inquisitors, an argument that relies entirely on supposition and huge leaps in logic. No offense.

[Selenial]

OK, massive assumptions are being made here regarding Grievous' 'popularity'.

 

No one knew that Grievous was the Kaleesh warlord except Dooku, Sidious, and their inner circle. He was a complete mystery to the galaxy. Upon Grievous' death, everything within him was incinerated due to the oils used to preserve his fleshy substances. So even if the Inquisitorious knew of Grievous, they would find an empty shell burned from the inside. All that can be gained would be knowledge that Grievous was burnt from within.

 

Further, Grievous' body was taken and given to a scientist.

 

And why would Palpatine tell the Inquisitors about Grievous? What would they have to gain? He has no reason to divulge intimate details about his pawn. And even if he did, I doubt he was aware of the cybernetic implants, especially since Grievous certainly wasn't. More to that, Palpatine was not personally involved in it, he merely ordered Dooku to find a general.

 

There are a lot of implications to the exact opposite of what is being put forth for the Inquisitors, an argument that relies entirely on supposition and huge leaps in logic. No offense.

 

Didn't Kit Fisto discover his secret and expose him?

[Aurbere]

Didn't Kit Fisto discover his secret and expose him?

 

In TCW? Or are you referring to something else?

[Selenial]

in tcw? Or are you referring to something else?

 

tcw...

[Aurbere]

tcw...

 

Found out he was robotic, but I'm pretty sure that's plainly obvious to everyone.

 

It's still not an indication of the cybernetics within his brain.

[Aurbere]

Alright, I'm hopping on to SWTOR now. I need to finish up Makeb on my Sage before the expansion comes out.

 

Toodles!

Edited December 1, 2014 by Aurbere

[Silenceo]

As enthusiastic as Sil is about converting small numbers of fighters, I tend to get stuck on IG-88's 1 hit KO move.

 

Sil mentioned this a while back, I've wracked my brain with ways the PH could stop this, but I don't see it. IG-88 would hold his sentience program till he finds the biggest, most powerful computer he can (Malevolence) and instead just scramble sensors with basic hacking attacks augmented by the IG-2000's advanced computer and communications equipment until he got to it, then take everything at once.

 

Also, Sil I was so ready to back you up on the Shadow Droid thing... But glad you didn't need it.

 

For the most part I want him to go for the 1 hit KO, but I mentioned him transfering other droids on his way because he likely would prefer that to out right blasting them out of the sky. Though, if Jamming is in my armament...

 

I had forgotten until a few hours ago how much personel storage space there was on the IG-2000, which is why I mentioned the skiprays. Using those detention cells, it is not far fetched at all that Dark Nova Troopers would accompany him. Though I think Grievous would have issues with them due to the Phrik armor. Which he, I don't believe, has encountered in armor form before, though he might recognize it because I believe the Magnaguard staffs were made out of it.

 

As for the Shadow Droids, every point counts if you want to add onto it, I believe they have accepted it, but can never be too sure, eh? Great to have you along Star.

[karadron]

No one knew that Grievous was the Kaleesh warlord except Dooku, Sidious, and their inner circle. He was a complete mystery to the galaxy.

 

 

This part I disagree with. Grievous took the name Grievous before he was Grievous...if you know what I mean.

 

What is a mystery about him is how he came to be in the cyborg shell. Either it was a Banking Clan plot or he did it himself.

Edited December 1, 2014 by karadron

[Selenial]

Found out he was robotic, but I'm pretty sure that's plainly obvious to everyone.

 

It's still not an indication of the cybernetics within his brain.

 

Well they had statues of a Kaleesh warlord, and he realized it was a shrine to Grevious' old life...