Silenceo Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Until you show me that SoroSuub provides jamming tech, I'm still against it. Oh, and no to Buzz Droids. They were built by the Colicoids, who have no affiliation to the Commerce Guild. Sadly Soro Suub doesn't seem to have a comprehensive list... However, they do have this gem RK-720 Light Freighter, complete with a cloaking device. From Punitive Security Forces, essentially the other half of the Commerce Guild, they have the Spelunker Prode droid which was essentially 5 droids formed into one, which was developed by the CIS early in the Clone Wars to have camouflage tech and renamed the Chameleon. While that droid is of no consequence... YET... it shows that both halves of the Commerce Guild had access to cloaking/jamming technology. As for the buzz droids... The Inquisitorious is a very elite branch of Imperial Intelligence that answered ONLY to Emperor Palpatine. As it was said via PM's Aurbere, II has quite a bit of information to use... As for the Inquisitorious, I have no doubt they would have the schematics for the buzz droids and their missiles to send to the Commerce Guild right away. However, it should also be noted that the Commerce Guild was a very LARGE portion of the CIS, providing them with a large amount of equipment. During this time, it would not be too far of a fetch to think that the Commerce guild scanned a few of these buzz droid missiles to add to their database since they invested so much in the war. However, even if this has not persuaded you, there is always the last and final method that they could use... Credits. See, the Commerce Guild is extremely wealthy and can purchase basically anything that the IDD needs without consequence, if they say they need these missiles because Trench wishes to use them in one of his stratagems... They would acquire them. Explanations aside, these would most likely count as pre-match upgrades as well because they are ordnance and could be explained as being loaded while the fleet was repaired. However, if that were to fail, I could still make use of them from turned Tri-fighters. Either way, buzz droids will serve me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Indeed? So tell me about this 'EWP', and keep it on the down low. Kaggath has begun, no secret talks Basically, an Electronic Warfare pod boosted a reactor to abnormally high levels, dangerously high levels which normally would not be used. Intense shielding kicked in, almost impenetrable and probably capital ship level, and the blasters were charged to immense levels. It lasted for a very short duration, but all systems returned to normal afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Sadly Soro Suub doesn't seem to have a comprehensive list... However, they do have this gem RK-720 Light Freighter, complete with a cloaking device. From Punitive Security Forces, essentially the other half of the Commerce Guild, they have the Spelunker Prode droid which was essentially 5 droids formed into one, which was developed by the CIS early in the Clone Wars to have camouflage tech and renamed the Chameleon. While that droid is of no consequence... YET... it shows that both halves of the Commerce Guild had access to cloaking/jamming technology. As for the buzz droids... The Inquisitorious is a very elite branch of Imperial Intelligence that answered ONLY to Emperor Palpatine. As it was said via PM's Aurbere, II has quite a bit of information to use... As for the Inquisitorious, I have no doubt they would have the schematics for the buzz droids and their missiles to send to the Commerce Guild right away. However, it should also be noted that the Commerce Guild was a very LARGE portion of the CIS, providing them with a large amount of equipment. During this time, it would not be too far of a fetch to think that the Commerce guild scanned a few of these buzz droid missiles to add to their database since they invested so much in the war. However, even if this has not persuaded you, there is always the last and final method that they could use... Credits. See, the Commerce Guild is extremely wealthy and can purchase basically anything that the IDD needs without consequence, if they say they need these missiles because Trench wishes to use them in one of his stratagems... They would acquire them. Explanations aside, these would most likely count as pre-match upgrades as well because they are ordnance and could be explained as being loaded while the fleet was repaired. However, if that were to fail, I could still make use of them from turned Tri-fighters. Either way, buzz droids will serve me. Not seeing the jamming tech. Perhaps you could elaborate on how you came to that. You're showing that they have to actually acquire it, so it shouldn't be a pre-battle upgrade. They don't own them, they don't make them. They aren't affiliated with them except by being apart of the CIS. I feel that the relationship is being too stretched in this case. Still, those Tri-droids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Kaggath has begun, no secret talks Basically, an Electronic Warfare pod boosted a reactor to abnormally high levels, dangerously high levels which normally would not be used. Intense shielding kicked in, almost impenetrable and probably capital ship level, and the blasters were charged to immense levels. It lasted for a very short duration, but all systems returned to normal afterwards. Most interesting. What else ya got? This will factor immensely into my upcoming arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Most interesting. What else ya got? This will factor immensely into my upcoming arguments. Electromagnetic Pulse, Proton Torpedo's and modular shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Electromagnetic Pulse, Proton Torpedo's and modular shielding. Thanks, Sel! This will be most useful. I'm starting up some counter arguments for what's been put forward now. Going to be much better than my opening argument, I assure you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 The Recusants are very powerful warships, but they are inferior to the Fist’s ships as well. As noted, a single Providence could take on Victory or Venator cruisers, while several Recusants were needed to take out a single Victory or Venator. Simple logic dictates that the Providence is easily superior to the Recusant. And let’s not forget the Recusant’s weaknesses. It is manned by a primitive droid brain that only allowed the ship to attack a single target at a time. Factor in the superior power of the Providences, the Harrowers, and the limitations of the Recusant, and I can see the Fist ships having an advantage here. As with the IDD, I won’t get into flagship comparisons at this time.Fortunately, the Recuscants outnumber the Providence's 3 to 1. Focus firing and eliminating the enemy one by one will not be something for Grievous to complain about.I am quite sure that Inquisitors had such devices installed on their personal star craft for the same reasons Imperial Agents did. Though if you won't budge on this point, it is also possible for the Commerce guild to supply them since Soro Suub is part of the Commerce Guild *essentially half of its main body* which one of their specialties was sensor equipment. The best part about my space plan right now, is that it rely's on very little from Trench. The majority of it comes from IG-88. That said, question the guards leaving so readily, and Trench being unguarded by efficient killers. He wouldn't need to even send his own guards, just deploy other units. I mean, the ship is gigantic, and has LOTS of Marines. Not to mention that in order to do so, wouldn't Lumiya have to have studied the Praetor II's blue prints? Even if she was able to send them aboard, and they some how got into the control room, it is entirely possible that Desann is acting as Trench's personal guard during the space battle, since he failed Jerec on the ground last battle. Also, while the Nexus does make Lumiya strong, it also empowers the other dark siders immensely as well. A Scholar such as Jerec I am sure would recognize the technique and have a suitable counter, though if not he could likely just alert Trench. While the Phantoms are indeed powerful, they are extremely taxing and nexus or not it will tire her after a few uses in such a short time. The thing to keep in mind is that didn't it take quite a bit of prep in order to setup the whole Phantom thing? Such would stop them from being spammed unless she had prep, but she did not. Side Note: So Sel, how many ships do I get from the Commerce Guild? If Lumiya really needs blueprints, which I am sure she doesn't need to project the phantom, merely to direct it, she can simply request this information from Imperial Intelligence. And when Nelani and Jacen infiltrated the Home, Lumiya summoned multiple illusions in rapid succession to harass them, it is a complex process, but I doubt Lumiya would need anymore than a hour if that to prepare. The reason I believe Trench would send someone competent to deal with the threat is that the fodder on board will be slaughtered it droves, it will be very difficult in a ship of that size, what with all the corridors and the like, as well as the Phantom's abilities to move through walls, for them to be cornered by enough forces to eliminate them. Trench is not about to let a horde of Sith run rampant about his ship, especially if they go for the reactor. And if he doesn't, the reactor will be destroyed instead, and Trench will be forced to abandon his flagship. P.S. Desann is exactly who I would expect, and it will be an illusion of Desann that kills Trench.That's right everyone! Beni likes to kill cute baby Banthas!!Sadly, psychological warfare will have little effect in this Kaggath, shame. And yes it will leave Lumiya tired, but she doesn't exactly have any pressing matters to attend to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 In regards to IG-88, while he will pose a threat he can be neutralized with minimal damage suffered by following several simple steps. However before I get on to that, I'd just like to make something clear, by uploading sentience programming to the Hegemony's droids they will adopt droid supremacy, and as such cannot be turned on one another. IG-88 will only be able to order them to attack the Fist, and it will be in the IDDs best interests to keep them intact. Indeed the only asset that IG-88 can have the droids attempt to destroy is Grievous, and good luck with that. The key point to take away from this is that the Hegemony will have time and an option to recover, all they have to do is reestablish control and they will suffer minimal if any losses, and can continue with their plans unopposed. Identify the threat: the Hegemony has extensive sensor tech at its disposal and will therefore be able to quickly identify the source as soon as IG-88 begins uploading sentience programming into their starships. I am confident that before IG-88 has hacked the entire fleet, Grievous will be aware of IG-2000 as the source. Eliminate the threat: IG-88 is a incredibly capable pilot with a powerful ship. But he is not match for Grievous and the Soulless One. He was a gifted pilot, capable of contending with Anakin Skywalker and commended by Mace Windu, he possesses the processing power of a droid, extreme acrobatics are likely within his capabilities, and his starfighter is state of the art. Possessing superior firepower, and significantly superior speed and hull strength to IG-88, who has been outmaneuvered by Boba Fett. The same will happen here. Reset the droid brains: as Silenceo so rightly pointed out, the droids brains in question are not particularly intelligent, and are hardly in a position to prevent the Hegemony's pilots from resetting/memory wiping them. Erasing sentient programming and regaining control over the droids with suffering a scratch. At best the IDD will capture some starfighters, but that is hardly going to give them an advantage. I actually am a bit disappointed Beni, not as awe inspiring as I had anticipated. 1. How would they detect him exactly? To download into such simplistic minds as your fighters it would be almost instantaneous, meaning no return communication or update from them, they would likely just drop off the radar as a friendly as it disconnected from the PH fleet and joined up with the IDD fighters, granted it wouldn't be in the Droid Meld so as to not overwhelm it, but they are effective enough without it. It is too bad I was mistaken about the IG-2000 though, I had assumed it had jamming/cloaking tech but after further investigation I found none... Unless I missed it? Wolf? 2. I heavily disagree with the Soulless One having superior firepower, shielding, OR maneuverability. The majority of the IG-2000 was dedicated to these exact systems. Not to mention that while Grievous is indeed a good pilot, he still has organic limits in the sense he can not pull certain maneuvers due to the G-Forces. While IG-88 has been shown to be able to view things in slow motion, digest data at an incredible rate, and perform moves that would leave even Grievous spinning. Even then though, Grievous is no Boba Fett, please do not compare him to the Fett Man. Slave I >> Soulless One. 3. What pilots Beni? They are droids, except for the Soulless One. They will not be reset, and even if they could be reset to regain them, it would not be a few mere seconds to do so. It is essentially all of your fighter compliment defecting to the IDD. As for erasing the Sentience programming, this part is just opinion, but I do not believe that to be as simple as a factory reset... However I would argue I do not need them to nor want them to fire upon the PH since soon all of the Ph droid forces in space will belong to the IDD. With the combined might the Fist would crumble. The only real counter you proposed was that Grievous would come after him in the Soulless One, which would quickly turn against him. If other PH droid fighters are in the vicinity they would soon turn on Grievous, and granted he would likely survive, but it would give IG-88 all the time he needs. Not to mention that I mentioned earlier that if he was to head for the Malevolance he would have 2 Skiprays flanking him which are noted as pocket corvettes, though unless the jamming argument was defeated during this posts construction, they would be able to jam enemy sensors en route. Should they land on the Malevolence it is game over. As for the Rescounts and Munificients, they could be reset to regain their allegiance to the PH, except all that man them are droids as well which would have been transferred as well. If even a single droid capital ship is turned, a large chunk of your compliment will go to. If the Malevolent goes, all of them turn. It really is that simple. Nor do I really see any reason as to how Grievous would be able to stop IG-88, not to mention him getting to his fighter would take time as well. Anyways, enough ranting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Fortunately, the Recuscants outnumber the Providence's 3 to 1. Focus firing and eliminating the enemy one by one will not be something for Grievous to complain about. True. However, it takes that many to defeat a Venator, whereas a single Providence can do the job on its own. So the Recusants only have a slight advantage, rectified by the inclusion of a few Harrowers, or the Vindicators from the IDD fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 I think assuming the IDD would have buzz droids is farfetched, and by that logic Baktoid could produce pretty much every single piece of CIS tech ever produced, that and Imperial tech as well thanks to I.I. The fact is though its not a such a simple case of grabbing the schematics and building the thing, factory lines have to be programmed, heck, factory lines have to be built, and the necessary resources acquired. In general, best to stick with what the have, not what they could maybe acquire. Regardless the rules don't really permit it anyway: #31 The supplier gives you access to whatever products that they manufacturer... The Commerce Guild does not manufacture buzz droids, simple as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Theoretically, Grievous should be able to regain control of his droids via the antennae in his brain. Theoretical, of course, as I may be forgetting something or not remembering the proper functions of those antennae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) Theoretically, Grievous should be able to regain control of his droids via the antennae in his brain. Theoretical, of course, as I may be forgetting something or not remembering the proper functions of those antennae. Aurbere... You... You sir are a GENIUS!!! _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: Edited November 30, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) Aurbere... You... You sir are a GENIUS!!! _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: If you're thinking what I think you are, don't. Trust me. It is not foolproof. But I like the deviousness of it. So go for it. Edited November 30, 2014 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 If you're thinking what I think you are, don't. Trust me. It is not foolproof. But I like the deviousness of it. So go for it. Doesn't need to be fool proof, only has to last a few seconds... Beni, IG-88 accepts Grievous' challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Aurbere... You... You sir are a GENIUS!!! _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: _evil: HACK HIM. HACK HIM NOOOOOWWWW! Omg I love it Sil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Doesn't need to be fool proof, only has to last a few seconds... Beni, IG-88 accepts Grievous' challenge. Organic brain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Eliminate the threat: IG-88 is a incredibly capable pilot with a powerful ship. But he is not match for Grievous and the Soulless One. He was a gifted pilot, capable of contending with Anakin Skywalker and commended by Mace Windu, he possesses the processing power of a droid, extreme acrobatics are likely within his capabilities, and his starfighter is state of the art. Possessing superior firepower, and significantly superior speed and hull strength to IG-88, who has been outmaneuvered by Boba Fett. The same will happen here. Something that has annoyed me in past Kaggaths is people throwing out counters that work with some but stop other strategies. Are you saying Grevious will be in the Soulless One? I'll accept arguments as if he was in the bridge, but I'll count them as less if you think he'll be in a fighter.... Unless you think he'll be on the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Organic brain... Droid arms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 HACK HIM. HACK HIM NOOOOOWWWW! Omg I love it Sil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvObIj7MKXY Best part, is that if IG-88 can manage to gain enough control, I might essentially gain General Grievous. If not, I already got what I need. You know you all love my devious plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) Organic brain... Brain can't do anything if the body doesn't obey. He would be a prisoner in his own skin... so to speak. All I need to accomplish, is a single signal to be sent out in those brief seconds... Anything else is bonus. Edited November 30, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Droid arms... Controlled by the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) Controlled by the brain. There is very likely a mechanical catalyst between the brain and the limbs. That is they key to controlling the body. As I said earlier though, all I need is to send out a signal which only requires a few seconds of control of the antennae, not necessarily General Grievous. The surprise since this has never happened to him before is all that would be needed. Anything beyond that is merely a nice bonus. Edited December 1, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 There is very likely a mechanical catalyst between the brain and the limbs. That is they key to controlling the body. There is, and Grievous controls it with his brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Alright, let's not get too attached to IG hacking Grievous here. My anti-IG plan is almost complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Alright, let's not get too attached to IG hacking Grievous here. My anti-IG plan is almost complete. But it is so ironic that a character that tends to say, "I am not a droid!" to get hacked. I wonder what your plan is though, for the most part the Fist would have to wade into the PH fleet to enact most counter plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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