KeyboardNinja Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 you know what healing class is see always getting a spot? the one that is available and not locked out. I'm sorry, but if you show up to a regular group and you're locked out, you're not getting a spot ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 you know what healing class is see always getting a spot? the one that is available and not locked out. /continues to munch popcorn I don't think he's referring to the last minute raid SM raid PUGs that form at the end of the week trying to get in under the wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 how is this relevant to the topic? op healing was broken for pvp and pve no, its not. A healer should be able to keep themselves alive against 2 average dps. in pvp. it isnt as if he will be doing any damage. if you nerf him down to only 50% of that, he wont be worth bringing. as far as pve...I have never seen a sorc or merc passed over for an op healer. loading up with op healers doesnt suddenly make a raid team invulnerable. there isnt much effective difference between types of healers. between the dps nerfs and heal nerfs, there will be less groups able to complete hm ops, frustration is a great way to keep your customer base happy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 no, its not. A healer should be able to keep themselves alive against 2 average dps. in pvp. it isnt as if he will be doing any damage. if you nerf him down to only 50% of that, he wont be worth bringing. as far as pve...I have never seen a sorc or merc passed over for an op healer. loading up with op healers doesnt suddenly make a raid team invulnerable. there isnt much effective difference between types of healers. between the dps nerfs and heal nerfs, there will be less groups able to complete hm ops, frustration is a great way to keep your customer base happy... I don't know where you get your metrics but umm, no, just no. Maybe two tanks, but two dedicated DPS? And Ops/Scoundrels are more capable than that. A decent Ops/Scoundrel is able to keep not only themselves a live while tow DPS beat on them, but also keep the rest of their team alive with little effort and maybe... just maybe, lose one person because they were out of their range. One DPS wailing away, yea I agree a healer should be able to survive, but two DPS a healer should not be able to survive without help and be able to keep other team members alive. The Op/Scoundrel can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 RIP is very, very pre-mature. I don't want to repeat too much of what KBN said -- though he does nail the issue correctly -- but a lot of these reactions are very knee-jerk. Whether it was in PvP or PvE Scoundrel / Operative healers were the clear #1. There is no refutation of this point outside of trolling. The AC needed re-adjustment, badly. In PvP, unless you were with a premade, you had a very difficult time if the other team had 1-2 Scoundrels or Operatives. In PvE -- specifically a raid context -- if your thought process was, "the more Scoundrel / Operatives, the easier this would be," then there must be an acknowledgment there is a balance issue. That said, I, like everyone else, are awaiting 3.0 with bated breath to see how impactful the changes will be. But after reading the changes, and knowing that Scoundrel / Operative is still a HoT healer, I don't think it`s near the doom and gloom that some of you are making it out to be. this is why programs like parsec are the bane of good games. big numbers dont matter if you arent doing your job. it isnt how much raw heals you have, but how effective the heals you provide are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanous Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) no, its not. A healer should be able to keep themselves alive against 2 average dps. in pvp. it isnt as if he will be doing any damage. if you nerf him down to only 50% of that, he wont be worth bringing. as far as pve...I have never seen a sorc or merc passed over for an op healer. loading up with op healers doesnt suddenly make a raid team invulnerable. there isnt much effective difference between types of healers. between the dps nerfs and heal nerfs, there will be less groups able to complete hm ops, frustration is a great way to keep your customer base happy... Where are you getting this 50% from? This balance isn't to nerf Ops against other classes. It is part of an overall healing balance. All healers are brought in line to where Bioware wants healing to be. You will find all healers have been nerfed to a degree. It is a game balancing issue, not a class issue. Op/scoundrel healing just happened to be the one most elevated. Bioware is balancing against metrics and not against how you feel. You don't walk into a debate with, "I don't got no maths but I gots a feeling!". Edited November 26, 2014 by Tamanous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 /continues to munch popcorn I don't think he's referring to the last minute raid SM raid PUGs that form at the end of the week trying to get in under the wire. my weekly 16 man hm has dps and heals that switch spots regularly. sure helps if one of you regular healers is out and you need to fill in. grabing an outside dps is a lot less critical than heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 this is why programs like parsec are the bane of good games. big numbers dont matter if you arent doing your job. it isnt how much raw heals you have, but how effective the heals you provide are. Yes because preventative healing, which an HOT is, isn't effiencient or effective then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Yes because preventative healing, which an HOT is, isn't effiencient or effective then? a good healer heals where it is needed. one that wants big numbers heals whatever give him his numbers rather than what is best for the raid. just like the dps that wont attack what he is supposed to because it will lower his dps to switch.big numbers arent everything. putting the heals where they will prevent a wipe or do the most good is important. bad healers can still have good numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavery Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 this is why programs like parsec are the bane of good games. big numbers dont matter if you arent doing your job. it isnt how much raw heals you have, but how effective the heals you provide are. First off, in a general sense, I agree. Parsers are a bane (but also a blessing). Secondly, however, numbers aren't solely why Scoundrels / Operatives were so dominant. A big part of it is HoT healing. In the same way that DoT damage dealing is so good. Reactive healing just can't compete with it (which Merc and Sage are for the most part). If we were still in a world without combat logging, I'd be shocked if Scoundrels / Operatives still weren't considered mandatory because they're HoT healers. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 a good healer heals where it is needed. one that wants big numbers heals whatever give him his numbers rather than what is best for the raid. just like the dps that wont attack what he is supposed to because it will lower his dps to switch.big numbers arent everything. putting the heals where they will prevent a wipe or do the most good is important. bad healers can still have good numbers. Yes, but good healers likely won't have bad numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 It's about time. I quit playing this healer over a year ago, mainly because there was no challenge. This was needed. The good Op/Scoundrel healers will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLaaNie Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 ... SMH at EAware making PVP changes and claiming it is to balance PVE. Nail. Head. Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eanelinea Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Sorcs/sages weren't already EASY to play? I dunno.....maybe it's just me, but I actually preferred playing my sorc/sage healer. My operative/scoundrel weren't very hard either, the ONLY class I found a pain in my *** to learn to heal effectively on was Mercs/Commandos. I started as heals on them and said, oh hell no, and switched them to dps. But, I just practice when I solo so when I do ops I know my girls inside and out. *shrug* Guess we'll see. Although, I have to say this. Bioware, for the love of all that's holy, will you people PLEASE stop nerfing classes of ANY type for the damn pvpers! They make up a SMALL player base in comparison to us PVErs. You can tweak, or whatever, but just stop making class either weak sauce or non playable because some pvper get's their *** handed to them in a warzone and whines to have the class that whipped their *** nerfed. kthx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantez Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) Although, I have to say this. Bioware, for the love of all that's holy, will you people PLEASE stop nerfing classes of ANY type for the damn pvpers! They make up a SMALL player base in comparison to us PVErs. You can tweak, or whatever, but just stop making class either weak sauce or non playable because some pvper get's their *** handed to them in a warzone and whines to have the class that whipped their *** nerfed. kthx. You are aware the operative healer nerf was done because "to bring operative healing down to a level that allows other healers to be more competitive and prevents Operative healing from trivializing PvE content that is meant to be challenging." ????? Quit blaming pvp-ers, they paid for the game just as you did Edited November 26, 2014 by quantez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I'll definitely share in that popcorn. This is getting good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLaaNie Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 You are aware the operative healer nerf was done because "to bring operative healing down to a level that allows other healers to be more competitive and prevents Operative healing from trivializing PvE content that is meant to be challenging." ????? Quit blaming pvp-ers, they paid for the game just as you did Quit pretending you lot aren't the cause of all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghouley Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 The cycle of MMOs continue. There will always be a class that is overpowered which in turn gets nerfed, which then makes another class overpowered so people think "WoW that class is strong ill play that". Then it gets nerfed again and on and on. In saying that... class imbalance is an annoyance however no class is ever completely useless if the person playing it knows what they are doing. Just play what you enjoy and let the cycle continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 The cycle of MMOs continue. There will always be a class that is overpowered which in turn gets nerfed, which then makes another class overpowered so people think "WoW that class is strong ill play that". Then it gets nerfed again and on and on. In saying that... class imbalance is an annoyance however no class is ever completely useless if the person playing it knows what they are doing. Just play what you enjoy and let the cycle continue A lot of us enjoyed Operative healing before it was so apparently "overpowered" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisknife Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 You are aware the operative healer nerf was done because "to bring operative healing down to a level that allows other healers to be more competitive and prevents Operative healing from trivializing PvE content that is meant to be challenging." ????? Quit blaming pvp-ers, they paid for the game just as you did Why is it...... lol....... Every single MMO.......Every single time............xD Nerfs happen, they don't end the game, it doesn't break classes, it's not about PVP or PVE. It's change, change happens and with it, even irl, the storm of QQs that follow. Blizzard has been nerfing classes and ending subs because of it for decades, according to the logic of our fellow QQers. Yet they still control this market and their game is far from dying (albeit wayyy passed due lol) The game is connected PVE and PVP, just like every other mmo prior. What dreamland game do these players play or have played that PVE and PVP nerfs should never cross???? Single player games??? Seriously though BW can't win for losing if they say it's for PVP then a small group of very voiceful PVE players chime in with the QQs, if they say it's for PVE then here comes that small group of PVPers, so predictable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantez Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Why is it...... lol....... Every single MMO.......Every single time............xD Nerfs happen, they don't end the game, it doesn't break classes, it's not about PVP or PVE. It's change, change happens and with it, even irl, the storm of QQs that follow. Blizzard has been nerfing classes and ending subs because of it for decades, according to the logic of our fellow QQers. Yet they still control this market and their game is far from dying (albeit wayyy passed due lol) The game is connected PVE and PVP, just like every other mmo prior. What dreamland game do these players play or have played that PVE and PVP nerfs should never cross???? Single player games??? Seriously though BW can't win for losing if they say it's for PVP then a small group of very voiceful PVE players chime in with the QQs, if they say it's for PVE then here comes that small group of PVPers, so predictable exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I couldn't be happier... Operative healing was the most broken spec in the game... I love it, and I love all you Operative healers misery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) It took them till 3.0 to do it but finally... This will be a nice change of pace (aka the right Nerf at the right time) and bring them back in line with other healers. Edited November 26, 2014 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 We'll see what we'll see in 6 days. Going all Drama Agent now is a bit premature IMO. I tried Operative healing a few times. Too boring compared to Sorc healing, so I respec'd my Operative to DPS and love that. But maybe now that Operative healing will actually be interesting, I may try it again. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) Yeah, so I'm kind of bored to look up the changes. Anyone cares to briefly summarize them? Oh and I very much like the fact they're finally nerfing us. Playing an operative healer usually meant god-mode and undying guarding of nodes, unless you went up against 1-2 really good players that REALLY knew what they were doing. The changes will make Op healing interesting again. Edit: Oops, never mind just saw there's a dev blog. Edit, No 2: ....aaaand there's nothing important in there... seriously? People are already overreacting before the devs actually talk about the changes? Edited November 26, 2014 by TheNahash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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