Devs - you say you buffed everything. But...you nerfed merc

[FerreusSteelTip]

Looking at the utilities for arsenal, I see at the heroic you have both energy rebounder and power overides. Two passives that GREATLY benefited arsenal mercs. Now, not only do we have to choose between them, but pretty much forego the new mobility passive in heroic that you yourselves have so vaunted over.

"They don't need a disengage ability, with this passive they have more mobility"

derp

All I have to say about that statement is DERP

 

I want a dev to roll a merc on a live server and que for solo ranked. Then I want you to watch as you get globalled. Maybe then you'll understand why mercs wanted a disengage or new dcd.

 

Personally, i'd have been happy with the mobility passive. Leave Power Overrides as a passive in the arsenal only tree. And instead, put decoy in the utilities.

Far as energy rebounder goes. You'll notice that you've allowed the Advanced Prototype Powertechs to keep it as a passive. Yet made it a utility for mercs.

Let me ask you something. Do you think any merc wants to go without the cast whilst moving utility? no. But using it will leave them even more vulnerable than they already are in PvP.

Because let me tell you. Be as mobile as you want, the stuns in this game are ridiculous. Depending on which stuns and roots, you can be locked in place a LONG time.

Oh yes, jet then overrides away. Mhm. Bout after you've lost 70% health in about 5seconds.

 

You know what might help. Make it so energy shield can be activated while stunned. Just like focused defense and enraged defense can be.

 

I understand that in the future, we'll get more utility points and such. But how about until then, we don't make the squishy classes even squishier hmm?

tbh, the power shield utility should have been a passive for all mercs across the board.

 

And I'm curious why Blazing bolts is on the move instead of tracer missile. I only bring that up because Life leach for the sorc is on the move and not force lightning. Shouldn't both channeled attacks be on the move, or both casts be on the move i.e tracer and life leach.

There should be some symmetry.

 

You said a lot of love was shown merc/pt this update. As someone who has mained a merc, I don't feel it. The animations don't even look as cool as the other classes. Just kind of stale. Blazing Bolts, the merc holds the pistols the same way. How about the pistols lighting up in the hands, like they just accelerated, and then have the arms out straight, but not crossed. A bit more aggressive posture, instead of...punk-ish lol. Never understood the crossed hands.

btw, priming shot should have a cooler animation as well. Like they take a sideways stance, one arm down to the side, and the other outstretched. Like they're aiming the shot. Then since it leaves a mark, how about it actually leaves a mark on the player. A flashing red mark.

Would let the player know they were marked in a more amusing way, and the rest of the team see it better.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

What your asking for is frigging OP and broken as all hell, Energy Shield while stunned?!? Combine that with Energy Rebounder and Pyro Shield, that's then the best DCD in the entire game next to Kolto Overload, which should have the 3s off CD when hit every 1.5s, because the Jet Rebounder skill is so useless it's not even funny...

[Theodulus]

I want a dev to roll a merc on a live server and que for solo ranked. Then I want you to watch as you get globalled. Maybe then you'll understand why mercs wanted a disengage or new dcd.

No one making decisions at Bioware is even playing the game. They were fired a long time ago. Besides only like 3% plays a merc regularly so they might as well put focus on the glowstick classes people actually play. It's the same reasoning why they abandoned pvp. Too few people play your precious game mode and class so they just ensure it underperforms. One less headache to balance.

[Adovir]

So from what I read I can translate this to" waaaah I'm a arsenal merc and I got something's moved from base line skills to utilities, I don't care I have a lot more mobility with PS being ever 18s a on the move BB more armor pen and a lot of ammo problems being taken care of because of the change to channels, I lost my 2 charges of power surge and energy rebounder. I don't care about the rest of the class that could use those moves, I need them, no one else, me and arsenal spec screw body guard and what ever pyro's new name is arsenal IS MERC!!!"

[Elyxin]

So from what I read I can translate this to" waaaah I'm a arsenal merc and I got something's moved from base line skills to utilities, I don't care I have a lot more mobility with PS being ever 18s a on the move BB more armor pen and a lot of ammo problems being taken care of because of the change to channels, I lost my 2 charges of power surge and energy rebounder. I don't care about the rest of the class that could use those moves, I need them, no one else, me and arsenal spec screw body guard and what ever pyro's new name is arsenal IS MERC!!!"

 

my thoughts exactly. you act like the class is nerfed, when in reality, a SINGLE spec in an ISOLATED environment (PvP ONLY) is impacted...a bit. the rest of the class benefits. now all 3 specs have access to those defensive buffs. sounds like a win in my book.

 

your title is either purposefully misleading, or you really think that Arsenal is the only spec for Mercs. I'm going to assume that you know that there are 2 trees to the left of your favorite in your window, and your just being a typical PvP player and trying to sound like the way you play is the way everyone plays.

 

and your wrong.

[FerreusSteelTip]

What your asking for is frigging OP and broken as all hell, Energy Shield while stunned?!? Combine that with Energy Rebounder and Pyro Shield, that's then the best DCD in the entire game next to Kolto Overload, which should have the 3s off CD when hit every 1.5s, because the Jet Rebounder skill is so useless it's not even funny...

 

no it isn't OP. The little tiny burn does nothing. And shield only reduces dmg by 25%. Saberward is equivalent but with more defenses.

Energy rebounder should at least be left in the tree as a passive.

Roll a merc in ranked and tell me they should remove any of their survivability.

I'd love to see you do 2k dmg from being piled. Because oh yeah, no oh **** button like barrier or enraged defense.

[FerreusSteelTip]

my thoughts exactly. you act like the class is nerfed, when in reality, a SINGLE spec in an ISOLATED environment (PvP ONLY) is impacted...a bit. the rest of the class benefits. now all 3 specs have access to those defensive buffs. sounds like a win in my book.

 

your title is either purposefully misleading, or you really think that Arsenal is the only spec for Mercs. I'm going to assume that you know that there are 2 trees to the left of your favorite in your window, and your just being a typical PvP player and trying to sound like the way you play is the way everyone plays.

 

and your wrong.

 

lol, they are not given those defensives. Maybe if they're PvE and spec them. But ANY merc spec will choose the cast/channel on the move utility.

Look at how they've done it. In heroic, there is usually ONE that everyone wants. Some that they would love to have, but can only choose one.

 

And pyro merc isn't viable for PvP at the moment. Not in ranked. The heals won't spec for rebounder in 3.0. They'll want more mobility.

So that added defensive, which helped arsenal, being moved away is ridiculous. Yes, pyro could use it too. If that's the case, make it second tier. So people can spec it and the mobility.

 

They are giving mercs more dps and mobility, but we didn't need these as much as better survivability. If the devs think greater mobility = greater survivability, they obviously haven't played the game.

The multitude of stuns in 4v4 negates mobility advantages. Only in duels does it matter.

[FerreusSteelTip]

So from what I read I can translate this to" waaaah I'm a arsenal merc and I got something's moved from base line skills to utilities, I don't care I have a lot more mobility with PS being ever 18s a on the move BB more armor pen and a lot of ammo problems being taken care of because of the change to channels, I lost my 2 charges of power surge and energy rebounder. I don't care about the rest of the class that could use those moves, I need them, no one else, me and arsenal spec screw body guard and what ever pyro's new name is arsenal IS MERC!!!"

 

typical response.

Play merc in solo ranked. Tell me how well you do.

 

Every class needs an immediate defensive that makes people switch off them. Juggs have theirs, sins and ops can disp. Sorcs have barrier. PTs, Mercs, Snipers, and Maras don't have anything.

The mara invinc isn't that great. Lose health at end, and only last a few seconds.

In coordinated play, every class is FINE. But the majority of Pvpers do solo ranked. No voice comms, no promise of heals or tanks. Just 4 random people thrown together, each thinking they know best.

 

Mercs can stay back in most cases, except when against teams of 3 or more stealthers. In which case, we get jumped, stunned. Break it, stunned again, dead. Or very very low.

A sorc? jumped, barrier. Everyone switches off, sorc at full health.

Jugg? jumped. Enraged defense if unable to do dcds, and back to full health.

Stealthers if smart don't get immediately jumped.

hell, even a mara can disp.

Sniper stands no chance. Not with OS nerfed to the ground. And merc, PT - good ones can last enough to not be globalled, but that's about it.

Maybe the increased speed of hydrolics will help.

But these squishy classes, for that's what they are, could greatly benefit from better dcds.

It DOES seem as if the lightsaber wielding classes get most the love.

[Adovir]

You know you get 2 top tier utilities not 1

[mastervalkar]

You have to understand, Bioware almost complete gave up on PvP. They do not care you are getting globaled. Sorry you feel they are killing what is a favorite way for you to play, but it is time to face the facts: Bioware could give Zero Effs about your PvP issues.

 

Just try to make it with what you have, or roll a Powertech

[Adovir]

Also you understand that the reason why madness sorc is so broken because it has too much mobility? Damage aside, the fact you can't catch them for a long while is why they're so strong. Now they're translating this to mercs, so quite your QQ it's not our fault your team in solo ranked doesn't know how to play

[Nightkin]

Now they're translating this to mercs, so quite your QQ

Mercs did not get any increased mobility, the dev stream about BH/Trooper was very clear about this. The ability to shoot back while being harrassed by someone in melee range is not increased mobility. So kindly stop acting superiour with L2P, QQ and other stupid comments. This class does need a panic button, just like every other succesful pvp class in this game.

 

And offtopic, the only thing you can rely on in solo ranked is that noone ever cares about anyone else. Succesful pvp demands it but most people are superbusy keyboard turning and clicking to have time for you

Edited November 17, 2014 by Nightkin

[capsales]

I agree with OP. I also agree with the people stating BW doesn't care about PVP which is sad. I love this game and hope they find a way to keep ALL of the players playing.

[BobaFaceroll]

Here is the problem in a nutshell: Almost everything Arsenal Mercs had for defensive bonuses as part of their tree/build are turning in to utility perks. For PvP you would typically take Decoy but [luckily] that's part of the Arsenal path now. A current Arsenal PvP build would include the following utility traits as part of their current spec...

 

Skillful

Power Barrier

Jet Escape

Afterburners

 

Masterful

Torque Boosters

Power Shield (from Bodyguard)

 

Heroic

Energy Rebounder

Power Overrides

 

Come 3.0 that means if you want to have the same amount of survivability as you do today all your Utility traits are spoken for. No adding a heal to Jet Boost, no using Unload on the move, no Jet Rebounder, and most importantly no Stabilized Armor without giving up existing defensive traits.

 

Does anyone think that an Arsenal Merc can afford to give up defensive traits? Worst of all you have to give up something from Masterful or higher to get a different utility in the Masterful or Heroic areas. Want less damage from AOE or while stunned? Give up interrupt protection from Power Shield, or reduce your mobility with shorter HO, or other unpleasant sacrifices. Unload on the move? What defensive perk are you going to sacrifice?

 

Bodyguard and Pyro have some better choices available. Arsenal gets to decide what defensive traits to sacrifice. It's not a terribly exciting proposition.

 

What your asking for is frigging OP and broken as all hell, Energy Shield while stunned?!? Combine that with Energy Rebounder and Pyro Shield, that's then the best DCD in the entire game next to Kolto Overload, which should have the 3s off CD when hit every 1.5s, because the Jet Rebounder skill is so useless it's not even funny...

 

Pleasebe serious for a moment. Being able to use a 25% damage shield while stunned is hardly OP and broken as hell. You could still blow right through that shield if a Merc could actually use it while stunned. Come 3.0 a Merc would never pick Pyro Shield either, not ever. Doing so would mean you have to sacrifice a far better defensive utility. Check this breakdown of the Arsenal tree and the utilities, which are shared by all Mercs. There are far too many good utilities in the Heroic tier that aren't worth sacrificing for Pyro Shield.

[Aetideus]

Mercs did not get any increased mobility, the dev stream about BH/Trooper was very clear about this. The ability to shoot back while being harrassed by someone in melee range is not increased mobility. So kindly stop acting superiour with L2P, QQ and other stupid comments. This class does need a panic button, just like every other succesful pvp class in this game.

 

And offtopic, the only thing you can rely on in solo ranked is that noone ever cares about anyone else. Succesful pvp demands it but most people are superbusy keyboard turning and clicking to have time for you

 

It should be passive for arsenal tree as it is now. Being top Utility is one of the biggest nerfs for pvp. Essentially a choice is enforced between having more mobility/ dps and even less survivability or have the awful current survivability and less dps.

[Elyxin]

lol, they are not given those defensives. Maybe if they're PvE and spec them. But ANY merc spec will choose the cast/channel on the move utility.

Look at how they've done it. In heroic, there is usually ONE that everyone wants. Some that they would love to have, but can only choose one.

 

And pyro merc isn't viable for PvP at the moment. Not in ranked. The heals won't spec for rebounder in 3.0. They'll want more mobility.

So that added defensive, which helped arsenal, being moved away is ridiculous. Yes, pyro could use it too. If that's the case, make it second tier. So people can spec it and the mobility.

 

They are giving mercs more dps and mobility, but we didn't need these as much as better survivability. If the devs think greater mobility = greater survivability, they obviously haven't played the game.

The multitude of stuns in 4v4 negates mobility advantages. Only in duels does it matter.

 

I know they aren't "given" those defensives. they are given the choice...a choice they never had before, which was my point. we have ACCESS to those defensives, not gauranteed them. L2R please. And don't forget, as stated above, you get up to 2 choices in that tier. and I didn't say that it wasn't a negative for Arsenal, but again, my point still stands. that 2 of the 3 specs are getting more. and Arsenal has a choice now, whether you like it or not. your 2 defensives, or a defensive and a mobility.

 

I wont argue the PvP side, because I don't play it in this game. but my points still stands. the class, overall is better off, and your title is misleading.

[Zoom_VI]

What they really need to do is take some of the heroic tier utilities and move them down to the masterful tier.

[Zoom_VI]

Want less damage from AOE or while stunned? Give up interrupt protection from Power Shield, or reduce your mobility with shorter HO, or other unpleasant sacrifices.

 

That's not actually how it works. You can't exchange masterful or skillful tier utilities for heroic ones. You can only ever have two heroic tier abilities.

[Adovir]

Mercs did not get any increased mobility, the dev stream about BH/Trooper was very clear about this. The ability to shoot back while being harrassed by someone in melee range is not increased mobility. So kindly stop acting superiour with L2P, QQ and other stupid comments. This class does need a panic button, just like every other succesful pvp class in this game.

 

And offtopic, the only thing you can rely on in solo ranked is that noone ever cares about anyone else. Succesful pvp demands it but most people are superbusy keyboard turning and clicking to have time for you

 

I fail to see how if a melee is on me and I'm able to knock them back and instead of planting my self down for 1gcd for a tm I instead am still moving, hit them with a priming shot(instant) then an instant tm and being able to BB while still running isn't considered as increased mobility, I just went 4gcds with out stopping, 4gcds where the melee hasn't been on me because I probably netted him. With this new set up I can go PS tm power surge tm e-dart HSM RS tm bb before I have to stop and cast.

 

How I see it is this, you either take mobile BB and powersurge, mobile BB and ER or ER and PS to be like on live now either way you do get more movement and less casting. On my Mando I will personally give up ER and take PS and mobile BB and willingly drop ER because I feel like I can keep someone away from me.

 

Edit also I do think some of the abilities from heroic, like powersurge and kolto wave should definatly be moved because they're either too needed OR they just don't belong, like seriously kolto wave in heroic???? What where they smoking and can I get some

 

Edit #2 I should probably put this in my sig or something but I don't mean to come off as an ******e, most of the time it's because I try to be fairly matter of fact, so sorry if I came off as that

Edited November 17, 2014 by Adovir

[Aetideus]

what they really need to do is take some of the heroic tier utilities and move them down to the masterful tier.

 

^ ^

[Nightkin]

sorry if I came off as that

Ok no worries, what i mean is that just because you get to pick the choice to fight back now does not mean that your mobility or ability to soak damage is increased at all. Just your ability to do damage.

[Max_Killjoy]

Actually, the two things that are really bad about the new Arsenal Merc setup are the mandatory skill spot wasted on buffing Sweeping Blasters, and inflicting the Supercharge mechanic from Combat Support Cylinder on the entire AC.

[Nightkin]

Actually, the two things that are really bad about the new Arsenal Merc setup are the mandatory skill spot wasted on buffing Sweeping Blasters, and inflicting the Supercharge mechanic from Combat Support Cylinder on the entire AC.

I kinda like that they added supercharge, it adds another element of depth to the class. It is a very old request from the community and im happy the devs listened. I cannot for the life of me figure out why they refuse to add a much needed defensive ability though. That boggles my mind :S

[FerreusSteelTip]

I fail to see how if a melee is on me and I'm able to knock them back and instead of planting my self down for 1gcd for a tm I instead am still moving, hit them with a priming shot(instant) then an instant tm and being able to BB while still running isn't considered as increased mobility, I just went 4gcds with out stopping, 4gcds where the melee hasn't been on me because I probably netted him. With this new set up I can go PS tm power surge tm e-dart HSM RS tm bb before I have to stop and cast.

 

How I see it is this, you either take mobile BB and powersurge, mobile BB and ER or ER and PS to be like on live now either way you do get more movement and less casting. On my Mando I will personally give up ER and take PS and mobile BB and willingly drop ER because I feel like I can keep someone away from me.

 

Edit also I do think some of the abilities from heroic, like powersurge and kolto wave should definatly be moved because they're either too needed OR they just don't belong, like seriously kolto wave in heroic???? What where they smoking and can I get some

 

Edit #2 I should probably put this in my sig or something but I don't mean to come off as an ******e, most of the time it's because I try to be fairly matter of fact, so sorry if I came off as that

 

I just want to adjust your perception of what was said. 4 players piling, or even just 2. The combined stuns.

No one said just 1 melee.

Because lets be honest, a good merc right now can solo most of the melee classes. Even juggs.

BUT if you are a merc in ranked, you are target number 1. You are piled and tunneled, with no escape. Then after you die and end the round with at most 25-30k dmg, you are harassed by *******es.

Now, most are harassed anyways. This comes with PvP, but when you are a merc or sniper, you can't simply write their complains off. You understand them. A sorc or jugg would have been better than you. And yet, you enjoy your class. You want to use it.

In my opinion, and i am very happy to see other players agreeing with me - I think mercs dps was fine. What they need is a major boost to survivability. That is ALL I want. To be able to survive being piled like I do on other classes.

The devs excuse of, "if we give one class a new dcd, we'll have to give other classes"

To that I say...yes please?

I mean, look at the set bonuses. Juggs who have great self heals as is are getting heals off reflect now. Making it an even better dcd.

Maras, snipers, mercs, pts, and even Ops could do with better dcds. And look...they're all the blaster using classes.

I realize this is star wars and lightsabers are cool, but at launch the original devs promised that the other classes would be equal to jedi and sith classes. And at the start, Ops and Mercs were OP. They had to be nerfed. And in time, pts had to be nerfed.

but DPS WISE

With their insane dps gone, now they're just squishy. So balance it. Keep their dps level, give them better survivability. The ranked matches will last longer and be more competitive.

 

and on a side note, if you're not gonna give snipers a better dcd, then for the love of god return orbital strike BACK to what it was.

No ever wanted it nerfed. At most, you'd get 1 tick of dmg on people. Because they'd move out of it. ALL OS ever did was protect the sniper from melee. Forced them to either eat the dmg or back off.

Was a dcd in an of itself.

[Nightkin]

I just want to adjust your perception of what was said. 4 players piling, or even just 2. The combined stuns.

No one said just 1 melee.

Because lets be honest, a good merc right now can solo most of the melee classes. Even juggs.

BUT if you are a merc in ranked, you are target number 1. You are piled and tunneled, with no escape. Then after you die and end the round with at most 25-30k dmg, you are harassed by *******es.

Now, most are harassed anyways. This comes with PvP, but when you are a merc or sniper, you can't simply write their complains off. You understand them. A sorc or jugg would have been better than you. And yet, you enjoy your class. You want to use it.

In my opinion, and i am very happy to see other players agreeing with me - I think mercs dps was fine. What they need is a major boost to survivability. That is ALL I want. To be able to survive being piled like I do on other classes.

The devs excuse of, "if we give one class a new dcd, we'll have to give other classes"

To that I say...yes please?

I mean, look at the set bonuses. Juggs who have great self heals as is are getting heals off reflect now. Making it an even better dcd.

Maras, snipers, mercs, pts, and even Ops could do with better dcds. And look...they're all the blaster using classes.

I realize this is star wars and lightsabers are cool, but at launch the original devs promised that the other classes would be equal to jedi and sith classes. And at the start, Ops and Mercs were OP. They had to be nerfed. And in time, pts had to be nerfed.

but DPS WISE

With their insane dps gone, now they're just squishy. So balance it. Keep their dps level, give them better survivability. The ranked matches will last longer and be more competitive.

 

and on a side note, if you're not gonna give snipers a better dcd, then for the love of god return orbital strike BACK to what it was.

No ever wanted it nerfed. At most, you'd get 1 tick of dmg on people. Because they'd move out of it. ALL OS ever did was protect the sniper from melee. Forced them to either eat the dmg or back off.

Was a dcd in an of itself.

This might be the best thing i have ever seen anyone write on these forums. Every single word is true. I play all classes on both sides so i cant say im biased even though mercs is my favourite class "lore-wise". The defensive cooldowns is a major issue for mercs/mandos!