time for a pvp revamp...

[Mrdann]

since all the warzone pvp has degraded into these days is just a chase damage and kills, and forget all about the objective, i think what bioware should do a few things.

 

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

2. ban all free to play people from pvp, you want to pvp sub and then you can pvp, i am sick and tired of babysitting them and have them just doing their own thing instead. they are not supporting this game so therefore they are deadweight and should be removed.

3. Remove all MVP votes, they are pointless and usually go to whoever has the most kills and dmg

4. Create a pvp tutorial on HOW to for pvp

5. tone down the chains stuns and CCs

6. get rid of all of those cyber-tech grenades from pvp especially those seismic ones

7. revamp expertise and tone it down

8. add a deserter debuff for the rage quitters for 30 mins

 

my 2 cents i know i am know i am going to get alot of hate from people about my views. Well i love pvp its my thing, and i have gotten really sick and tried trying to explain what an objective is in this game to people that are totally clueless. People don't go after the ball, run orbs and defend nodes anymore and its gotten way worse then what it was before this game went free to play.

 

if they want to just do that they should have just created death-match maps and never bothered to make any objective based maps if no one is even going to follow them

Edited November 12, 2014 by Mrdann

[KTap]

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

2. ban all free to play people from pvp, you want to pvp sub and then you can pvp, i am sick and tired of babysitting them and have them just doing their own thing instead. they are not supporting this game so therefore they are deadweight and should be removed.

3. Remove all MVP votes, they are pointless and usually go to whoever has the most kills and dmg

4. Create a pvp tutorial on HOW to for pvp

5. tone down the chains stuns and CCs

6. get rid of all of those cyber-tech grenades from pvp especially those seismic ones

7. revamp expertise and tone it down

8. add a deserter debuff for the rage quitters for 30 mins

 

1. No...

2. They are already heavily restricted, and if they couldn't pvp at all they might not sub, so no.

3. MVP is fairly useless, but not worth the time to remove (also, they'd probably break quick travel or something else unrelated).

4. I'd be for this if it was done right, but I would be expecting failure if they made one.

5. Yes.

6. Can't decide on this one. I hate them personally, but if they did #5 I'd say leave them as is.

7. Not sure what you mean, people should need pvp gear to be competitive in pvp. They should fix bolster though (assuming it's still messed up)

8. I'd be for this if it's done repeatedly or something, but there are a few good reasons for leaving games early.

Edited November 12, 2014 by KTap

[LordArtemis]

since all the warzone pvp has degraded into these days is just a chase damage and kills, and forget all about the objective, i think what bioware should do a few things.

 

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

2. ban all free to play people from pvp, you want to pvp sub and then you can pvp, i am sick and tired of babysitting them and have them just doing their own thing instead. they are not supporting this game so therefore they are deadweight and should be removed.

3. Remove all MVP votes, they are pointless and usually go to whoever has the most kills and dmg

4. Create a pvp tutorial on HOW to for pvp

5. tone down the chains stuns and CCs

6. get rid of all of those cyber-tech grenades from pvp especially those seismic ones

7. revamp expertise and tone it down

8. add a deserter debuff for the rage quitters for 30 mins

 

my 2 cents i know i am know i am going to get alot of hate from people about my views. Well i love pvp its my thing, and i have gotten really sick and tried trying to explain what an objective is in this game to people that are totally clueless. People don't go after the ball, run orbs and defend nodes anymore and its gotten way worse then what it was before this game went free to play.

 

if they want to just do that they should have just created death-match maps and never bothered to make any objective based maps if no one is even going to follow them

 

I will not give you hate. Though I do not agree with most of your suggestions, and believe they would have the exact opposite effect, I respect your right to make the suggestions you feel are best and your passion to improve PVP.

[Silverspar]

1. No...

2. They are already heavily restricted, and if they couldn't pvp at all they might not sub, so no.

3. MVP is fairly useless, but not worth the time to remove (also, they'd probably break quick travel or something else unrelated).

4. I'd be for this if it was done right, but I would be expecting failure if they made one.

5. Yes.

6. Can't decide on this one. I hate them personally, but if they did #5 I'd say leave them as is.

7. Not sure what you mean, people should need pvp gear to be competitive in pvp. They should fix bolster though (assuming it's still messed up)

8. I'd be for this if it's done repeatedly or something, but there are a few good reasons for leaving games early.

 

I agree with most of your assessment except 7 and 8. PvP gear was always a bad idea even when WoW implemented it, but WoW couldn't solve the gear problem and it's not going away anytime soon, unfortunately so a new stat had to be invented.

 

As far as 8 goes, no, there is no reason to rage quit a game, outside of real life but if real life is happening you are probably not coming back for 30 minutes anyways. Tough it out bad team or not, you can take a loss.

[Deewe]

Read the following on MMORPG.com

 

Fdzzaigl writes:

I really like the core idea of PvP in the game, the abilities for all classes are generally fun to use in PvP and there's a good balance of quick reaction time and strategical thinking.

However, a number of problems have plagued the PvP since launch:

1) Crazy amounts of CC. "Stun Wars" as it's often called has always been a problem in TOR. Almost every class has several hardstuns as well as other controlling effects like roots and slows. There are no diminishing effects and the resolve system is wholly unsifficient, as you're likely almost dead anyhow if your resolve meter is full.

Ironically, the resolve system used to work in a totally different (and much better) way shortly after and before launch in this game.

 

2) Crazy amounts of burst: a problem that isn't exclusive to TOR, but it's a bad trend in many MMO's nowadays. Even with the best PvP gear on, you can literally walk into a situation where you are hardstunned and globalled (killed 100-0% inside the global cooldown of 1,5 seconds and therefore totally unable to act).

Pre-launch, BioWare's idea for the PvP was that each fight would take a while and that you would have ample chance to make a comeback or turn a situation around. This was true shortly after launch and was tons of fun, but everything about that promise went to hell quite fast. They've never managed to turn it around again.

 

3) Too much healing. Of course due to points 1) and 2) this is currently necessary, but again far too much focus is being laid on having that quintessential healer with you for PvP. Luckily there's also the PvP tank in this game, which puts a little bit of variety in there.

Healing and therefore practically having infinite healthpools is one of the things that actually causes there to be a need for massive burst and CC however. But obviously there's no turning back from this one.

 

4) Unbalanced mechanics. TOR follows the FOTM format quite heavily (though I came back after a year and assassins were still FOTM just as they were back then, so in that case it's more like flavour of the year lol).

More importantly though, they've always had a ton of trouble getting certain stats and resistances working correctly to mitigate or reduce damage.

We started off with the surge rating stat giving ******* insane crits to certain classes, then they had problems with expertise (basically something like WoW's resilience) giving newbie players the shaft.

Defensive stats used to be crap in PvP all-around, thankfully they made shield rating more useful, but defense rating is still ****.

Recently they've made it so everyone gets bolstered, even at the level cap. But this has caused some players to start nerfing heir top-end gear in order to be bolstered higher than normally, an absurd situation.

Right now expertise is also too weak against dots, which they have made uncleansable for the most part. For reasons...

 

5) Grinding tier after tier of gear. Opinions may vary.

 

6) Wrong focus. For a game that wants to include as much Star Wars lore as possible, the focus on small-scale arena and battleground PvP is completely out of whack.

Worse still, a bunch of stiff-headed elitists keep resisting any change to that model.

Instead they should be focusing on introducing more massive, immersive battlegrounds that are reminiscent of the epic battles from the films and have some true bearing on the war between Empire and Republic in the game.

The engine is the biggest limiting factor there, but it needn't be like the Ilum battles at the start of the game. They can make it entirely instanced ala Alterac Valley for all I care.

 

 

Then I'd add this

Originally posted by NightHaveN

Personally I always believed that having a stat specifically for PvP is a fail. Not only it does reward people that do only PvP frequently while harm badly the part-timer pvper, but that gear is also kind of useless in PvE.

Sadly is a design copied from WoW that is also imitated by other games (ie. Wildstar).

 

Not sure there's much to add on PvP then.

[howieloader]

I agree with the deserter debuff... You leave 3 times in 12 hours and you get banned for 2 or something like that... I'd also like to see the cybertech grenades removed from PvP... It's more sad than anything when people use them in regs, like I literally feel bad for the people that use them... What a crutch... Edited November 12, 2014 by howieloader

[KTap]

As far as 8 goes, no, there is no reason to rage quit a game, outside of real life but if real life is happening you are probably not coming back for 30 minutes anyways. Tough it out bad team or not, you can take a loss.

 

I'll give you two examples of why I voted for repeat offenders, and not anyone who leaves early.

 

One you stated, a real life situation. Example - If something came up as a potential emergency, and you had to go check it out/make a phone call/whatever, you'd probably want that person to leave the game, right? Maybe it turns out that it was a false alarm or something, and they're back at their computers in 2 minutes. Yes it's unfair for your team until a replacement is found, but I also don't think it would be fair to lock the other person out for an extended amount of time.

 

Another would be back-filling a game that is obviously over. Example - If it's 0-5 in huttball with 2 minutes left and there's only 5 people on my team when I join, I should not be punished for leaving. Yes I could stay and get some medals, get a few comms or something, but I'd much rather start with a fresh warzone match instead.

Edited November 12, 2014 by KTap

[ThorgrimLutgen]

since all the warzone pvp has degraded into these days is just a chase damage and kills, and forget all about the objective, i think what bioware should do a few things.

 

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

2. ban all free to play people from pvp, you want to pvp sub and then you can pvp, i am sick and tired of babysitting them and have them just doing their own thing instead. they are not supporting this game so therefore they are deadweight and should be removed.

3. Remove all MVP votes, they are pointless and usually go to whoever has the most kills and dmg

4. Create a pvp tutorial on HOW to for pvp

5. tone down the chains stuns and CCs

6. get rid of all of those cyber-tech grenades from pvp especially those seismic ones

7. revamp expertise and tone it down

8. add a deserter debuff for the rage quitters for 30 mins

 

my 2 cents i know i am know i am going to get alot of hate from people about my views. Well i love pvp its my thing, and i have gotten really sick and tried trying to explain what an objective is in this game to people that are totally clueless. People don't go after the ball, run orbs and defend nodes anymore and its gotten way worse then what it was before this game went free to play.

 

if they want to just do that they should have just created death-match maps and never bothered to make any objective based maps if no one is even going to follow them

 

1. No. Instead of removing content, gate the content. Remove the current ranked system and make ALL PVP ranked PVP. Add in an expertise gate of 2018 for L55/60 PVP. Remove bolster from ALL L55/60 PVP. Nowhere to hide !

 

2. No. Remove the F2P restrictions, with the above taken into account their presence is not an issue. If they want to play L55 PVP they must get past the gate. Lowbies and Midbies are irrelevant.

 

3. I agree there. Perhaps do something similar to GSF where it "sort of" takes into account your actual use to the team. That said, the comm award is miniscule and does not matter to PVPers anyway. Only really matters to the PVErs scratching out every comm they can.

 

4. No. Have you ever seen the streams of the devs PVPing?

 

5. Potentially already dealt with in 3.0.

 

6. No. Make your own or buy some. Why make yet another crew skill obsolete to make up for a PVPers laziness?

 

7. No. It is fine as it is. Use it to keep those who should not be PVPing, from PVPing.

 

8. Would rather see the reason people leave dealt with, ie awful players being awful. Add in the above gates and those players will be removed, or at least will be forced to improve. Remove the comms caps so that people can acquire enough comms to get 2018 at 55 from PVP gear. Level playing field easily achieved. If people don't bother, its their own fault.

Edited November 12, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[CapWinterz]

You lose me at #1, and also if your going to remove stuns and interrupts, then you need to heavily nerf healing.

[Lotharofxev]

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

 

Just more maps.

 

2. ban all free to play people from pvp, you want to pvp sub and then you can pvp, i am sick and tired of babysitting them and have them just doing their own thing instead. they are not supporting this game so therefore they are deadweight and should be removed.

 

Oh trust me, subscribers can be just as bad. But yeah, remove the workaround that allows F2P to queue up beyond the number allowed on a weekly basis.

 

3. Remove all MVP votes, they are pointless and usually go to whoever has the most kills and dmg

 

I usually vote for the healer or the prot guy.

 

4. Create a pvp tutorial on HOW to for pvp

 

Pretty subjective on "how" to PvP.

 

5. tone down the chains stuns and CCs

 

6. get rid of all of those cyber-tech grenades from pvp especially those seismic ones

 

Naah. They're fun.

 

7. revamp expertise and tone it down

 

I can agree the system needs to be tweaked. Right now you can do pretty well at 54, then level once and become shark bait.

 

8. add a deserter debuff for the rage quitters for 30 mins

 

Here we'll have to agree to disagree, it's not my job to tell people how to 4) or carry a team. (I've done 3x the damage of some mid 50's on my 30 Assassin)

[Darth__Reaver]

Ok look I'm no hater just a hat maker

 

But for real just get rid of bolster in ranked and fix match ups... Could care less about regs its got to the point where idk I don't even do the objectives no more. Same map different man hunter.

[Gomla]

If your objective was to completely kill PvP then your suggestions are the way to do it.

[MaximusRex]

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

 

This alone would pretty much kill SWTOR PvP.

[Deewe]

This alone would pretty much kill SWTOR PvP.

True as there's no world PvP and the current game play is based on stuns.

[Silverspar]

I'll give you two examples of why I voted for repeat offenders, and not anyone who leaves early.

 

One you stated, a real life situation. Example - If something came up as a potential emergency, and you had to go check it out/make a phone call/whatever, you'd probably want that person to leave the game, right? Maybe it turns out that it was a false alarm or something, and they're back at their computers in 2 minutes. Yes it's unfair for your team until a replacement is found, but I also don't think it would be fair to lock the other person out for an extended amount of time.

Again if you were leaving to check on a life emergency you are not coming back in less than 2 minutes. It's unlikely you would be back in 15 minutes in those cases, so I seriously doubt you will notice a lock out timer.

 

Another would be back-filling a game that is obviously over. Example - If it's 0-5 in huttball with 2 minutes left and there's only 5 people on my team when I join, I should not be punished for leaving. Yes I could stay and get some medals, get a few comms or something, but I'd much rather start with a fresh warzone match instead.

 

Ah, you are one of those that just gives up as soon as you see a score. You know how many games can be saved at the last minute. Maybe try instead of giving up and wanting to quit.

[anesvik]

I do not agree with you...HOWEVER

#3 should be looked at. Either MVP votes should get you extra...whatever. Or it should just be removed.

#8...Yes. Yes. And more yes. It always pisses me off when people rage quit 30seconds (literally) in the match. There are people that jump in and out without penalty and those left behind need to continue at a disadvantage. And I dont see the point of leaving unranked. You get wz comms either way. I could see leaving a ranked where you team sucks and you dont want to tarnish your rating.

Edited November 12, 2014 by anesvik

[Gorillazy]

All I could read in this thread was "I'm an elitist I'm an elitist, ban all the F2Pers because they don't pay enough money for this game, I'm better than you."

 

Also why do people even complain about F2Pers when it's actually the subs that are just as bad! You realize F2Pers are locked at Lvl 50 right?? Which means they can't even play against "pro #MLG players" such as yourself in endgame PvP. If anything we need to loosen up the restrictions for PvP, maybe having more players could have solved our issues with queues a long time ago.

[Deewe]

Again if you were leaving to check on a life emergency you are not coming back in less than 2 minutes. It's unlikely you would be back in 15 minutes in those cases, so I seriously doubt you will notice a lock out timer.

 

 

 

Ah, you are one of those that just gives up as soon as you see a score. You know how many games can be saved at the last minute. Maybe try instead of giving up and wanting to quit.

Agreed with you, the example weren't that good.

 

Although, just for the record, as long as BioWare obliges us to play WZ maps we don't want, some of us will keep quitting as soon as we land into them.

 

You don't fix PvP queues by forcing player to play something they don't like. Either improve it or at least make them optional. When I go to a restaurant I'm not going to eat a dish I don't like because the chief thought so, same with games, this even if it's free.

[TUXs]

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

2. ban all free to play people from pvp, you want to pvp sub and then you can pvp, i am sick and tired of babysitting them and have them just doing their own thing instead. they are not supporting this game so therefore they are deadweight and should be removed.

3. Remove all MVP votes, they are pointless and usually go to whoever has the most kills and dmg

4. Create a pvp tutorial on HOW to for pvp

5. tone down the chains stuns and CCs

6. get rid of all of those cyber-tech grenades from pvp especially those seismic ones

7. revamp expertise and tone it down

8. add a deserter debuff for the rage quitters for 30 mins

 

1. Queue ranked if you want an arena

2. HORRIBLY stupid idea. You're not doing your job if you think you've been babysitting. You win some, you lose some...suck it up

3. LOL! Hell no!!! MVP votes go to kills, damage and healing because generally, they did the most work

4. A PvE tutorial? It's called 1-54 queues...players have 54 (soon to be 59) levels to learn PvP

5. Agreed. 3.0 should help with that

6. Buy your own...I do

7. No argument here

8. Worst idea you have. I'd rather replace someone who quits than to put up with them the whole WZ. I've won plenty of WZ's where players have quit

[Joesixxpack]

i think what bioware should do a few things.

 

Me too, but not any of the things on your list.

[Deewe]

1. Queue ranked if you want an arena

2. HORRIBLY stupid idea. You're not doing your job if you think you've been babysitting. You win some, you lose some...suck it up

3. LOL! Hell no!!! MVP votes go to kills, damage and healing because generally, they did the most work

4. A PvE tutorial? It's called 1-54 queues...players have 54 (soon to be 59) levels to learn PvP

5. Agreed. 3.0 should help with that

6. Buy your own...I do

7. No argument here

8. Worst idea you have. I'd rather replace someone who quits than to put up with them the whole WZ. I've won plenty of WZ's where players have quit

3: Well don't count anymore the time I or other players got no MVP when they in fact totally changed a game or make a side win while having the least DPS/Heals kills.

 

Be it by camping a node and calling in for support, pushing off players or stunning them in Huttball at critical places or time, keeping being ganked at a node to keep busy 2 players (or more) for only one against, giving the advantage to his team elsewhere, keeping away players from their healers or annoying enought other healers not to let them heal efficiently, luring away other players while allowing their team to cap and so on...

 

 

5: was said there's no work being done on resolve at all, so I don't expect the game to be less of a STUN wars.

[TUXs]

3: Well don't count anymore the time I or other players got no MVP when they in fact totally changed a game or make a side win while having the least DPS/Heals kills.

 

Be it by camping a node and calling in for support, pushing off players or stunning them in Huttball at critical places or time, keeping being ganked at a node to keep busy 2 players (or more) for only one against, giving the advantage to his team elsewhere, keeping away players from their healers or annoying enought other healers not to let them heal efficiently, luring away other players while allowing their team to cap and so on...

 

 

5: was said there's no work being done on resolve at all, so I don't expect the game to be less of a STUN wars.

I agree, some players get shafted in WZ's by "MVP" votes...but they work fine 99% of the time. If I'm grouped with someone in my guild, they get it...unless...someone really stands out (healer or stealth caps).

 

And I thought they were changing the cooldown on CC breakers in 3.0? Didn't a Dev confirm that way back?! That would make CC's far less of an issue imo...the current cooldown time vs. the number of stuns is appalling.

[DomiSotto]

Wow, you just suggested to remove a lot of things that is attractive to me in PvP!

 

I loved it that I could just go and do it, and be able to gear while learning even on Level 52. I use Cybertech grenades on my Mara - I need everything I can think of to help me play it! I also love MVPs, both giving and receiving. Hell bells, I would love to be able to vote a Valiant Foe as well! I love 8x8th, and being able to play Huttball well would have been on my list to Santa, if it would only help. PvP section has outstanding Tutorials, How to Become a Contender and whenever you ask a question at the forum, you get a variety of helpful, in-depth answers. In short, for a newb who wants to learn to play unranked PvP every tool is available. The natural ability is another thing, but you cannot change that. Like with every other activity, most people are simply average, and a very small percentage is above average.

 

In its current state unranked PvP is incredible fun and fantastically rewarding. The only thing that poisons it is an occasional player who just has to be crude.

 

One thing that would have helped tremendously the unranked would be access to the PvP maps to simply walk them through without a match going on.

 

I would have also liked an option to queue ranked as a spectator, because it is a privilege to see people play well. I mean, there are leaderboards. I'd love to see one of them top guns wrecking havoc.

 

The ranked PvP is simply not for an average player. It is too intimidating to enter. There is no good training grounds (because Huttball doesn’t prepare you for a death match; and please, please, no snide remarks about people who get tangled into a brawl in the mid instead of going for the goal. Sometimes it's just hard, no matter how you wish to get to the ball, and all that).

 

Dueling is not easily available in the game. Inviting people to duel is frowned upon. There is no venue to do so in a serious, “I want to learn” way.

 

If they added an Arena format that allowed a level 55/60 player to train with participatory comm rewards that are higher than in the objective-based <55/66 pool, but lower than the Elite Pool, and capped it on, say, valor 100 and/or low rank (a below average of a previous season?), I would try it, because there is a slim chance I would not be matched against a guy who started playing his character on Day 1 of the game launch and can kill my character seven different ways before I finished saying “huh?”

 

I guess that would mean that the elite guys will not get to play then… since there are so few of them. I dunno. I guess it’s hard to be truly great at something, and lonely. Hugs?

[TheSupaCoopa]

since all the warzone pvp has degraded into these days is just a chase damage and kills, and forget all about the objective, i think what bioware should do a few things.

 

1. remove ALL current objective based pvp maps, and replace them with arenas.

2. ban all free to play people from pvp, you want to pvp sub and then you can pvp, i am sick and tired of babysitting them and have them just doing their own thing instead. they are not supporting this game so therefore they are deadweight and should be removed.

3. Remove all MVP votes, they are pointless and usually go to whoever has the most kills and dmg

4. Create a pvp tutorial on HOW to for pvp

5. tone down the chains stuns and CCs

6. get rid of all of those cyber-tech grenades from pvp especially those seismic ones

7. revamp expertise and tone it down

8. add a deserter debuff for the rage quitters for 30 mins

 

my 2 cents i know i am know i am going to get alot of hate from people about my views. Well i love pvp its my thing, and i have gotten really sick and tried trying to explain what an objective is in this game to people that are totally clueless. People don't go after the ball, run orbs and defend nodes anymore and its gotten way worse then what it was before this game went free to play.

 

if they want to just do that they should have just created death-match maps and never bothered to make any objective based maps if no one is even going to follow them

 

1. Nope. Objective maps are good. Personally, I think unranked PvP should be arenas(They take less time to match up, don't take too long, and are good fun) but with more gamemodes(Huttlettball, TDM, KoTH, CTF). All Ranked matches should be either Objective Arenas(for solo) or 8v8 OBJ WZs(for team).

2. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope(bonus points if you can count the "o's" ). Content should not be restricted. You want people to sub? Give them stuff that feels like a thank you" gift. The complementary CCs are a good start, but it should be more.

3. Or, you know, make them useful?

4. Okay, that is a good idea.

5. Or just make them less effective. Longer CDs or longer resolve would be nice.

6. Oh, good. Let's make crafting even more useless! Like it or not, I feel we need more of those types of things, but for all crafting skills. Utility consumables, if you will. Something that adds versatility without being unbalanced.

7. The expertise system is flawed, so I agree with this.

8. Again, I agree with this.

[RebekahWSD]

1. No. Instead of removing content, gate the content. Remove the current ranked system and make ALL PVP ranked PVP. Add in an expertise gate of 2018 for L55/60 PVP. Remove bolster from ALL L55/60 PVP. Nowhere to hide !

 

Just a question of logic here. If ALL PVP were ranked and gated at 2018 expertise, where would one earn PVP gear to get the expertise?