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Why don't PvP Guilds que Team Ranked?


Kenjigreat

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YEAH SURE. 8v8 was so balanced. You never had to stack smashers, or pts, or use a bubble sorc as a healer... No 8v8 ranked wasn't more balanced then arenas. It is simply as I said already, almost every specc is viable in arenas but it is harder to hide a noob in a team of 8 than in a team of 4 where the only goal is killing.

 

Really? Then how come DPS Operatives or Sage Healers can't make it in the top teams?

 

They are Just no one can master them properly / dont want to play the class etc. Sage/Sorc Healer? Look at Housemd, he have cracked the code that no other sorc healers have manage to do yet. if u can see him play u will understand.

 

Anyway its a fact and its almost impossible to recover from this situation we have now. The PvP player base we have and the huge differences of players lvl. docent matter with handicap not going to work.

 

Having a good tank is almost essential if u wanna compete with the top. and to even actually practice tank pvp u have to go Group Rank, only place to practice and people don't want to do that on Live season and get stumped and lose motivation.

 

Consider that each season is dropping players. no Cross server or Server merge will really save us. Question is What can we do to Encourage new and old players to queue Group rank. Getting stomped - play the same team over and over is demotivating as hell, Solo rank is a small bandage to people that cant handle Team Rank or Cant find some one to play with in GR / No one to queue against with their lvl of skill or what ever reason (Not going to judge).

 

Do we need a Skirmish 4v4 Group queue instead? Better Reward? Change solorank some how? New bracket ? Encourage other PvPers from other game to test their metal in swtor? idk. ideas are endless. Being negative about this constantly Trashing and nagging and talking about this situation is waste of energy and bad publicity for this game. i guess we all need a place to vent out.

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Bioware just make a high gear level only available when u have like 1500+ in teamQ, or something else in order to encourage ppl queing.

 

But as it is now, its pointless to Q in team ranked, when u can do soloQ.

 

And i feel like ppl on this game doesnt like challenge, they fear a little too fast when they lose vs good teams, or they just dont like arenas but seriously, doing regular warzones for 2 years... time to quit the game

 

When u cant change players's mentality, there is no way to figure it out

Edited by jeanleo
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This kind of thing is a pretty decent idea, but I still think we will be faced with the same problem we have now. There are simply not enough players with the intestinal fortitude to take the beating they get when facing one of the best teams and still keep queuing.

 

Well I don't think we have enough players now, but what it does is show people that it's "better" to Que now because there is no chance of you getting saddled with a loss just because of RNG. I think it would get an influx of players and tell the PvP community that left, "hey come back. We have match balancing and 8v8ranked again".

 

It would go a long way....

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Really? Then how come DPS Operatives or Sage Healers can't make it in the top teams?

 

Funny that you ask me exactly this question. I came from a German Server to ToFN when the large ToFN-Transfer wave was going. GUESS WHAT MY TEAM WAS ? Operative healer, pt tank, sorc dps and operative dps. YES OPERATIVE DPS. Lethality, unbuffed. Without the better shieldprobe and the insta heal on exfiltrate.

 

Yes we lost many games. But because we lost so many we got better, because we realised that the skill on ToFN was on another level than on the german server which we left with an arena stat of 300:0.

 

After loosing many games on ToFN (we lost to the good teams, it was balanced against the mediocre) we started winning our first games against the top teams.

 

Sadly every1 in that team stopped so i had to find new ppl.

 

I guess you won't believe me now because we had exactly the classes you mentioned but on my stream you will maybe find some footage of us playing with Fratzek (our dps operative). Many people on tofn still remember him tho.

 

 

You can also watch roudys stream, he sometimes plays his concealment operative in ranked and it's totally viable.

 

Of course some classes have a higher skillcap then others but if you don't want differences play a game with only 1 AC or play a shooter

 

 

Oh... and sage healers? Go ahead and play on ToFN against the team of housemd. Or again watch roudys stream when we play against them.

Edited by Osdorof
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If matches were handicapped such that one side always had at least a 33% chance of winning I think more people would queue.

 

Here is the most inspiring example of a handicap match: The Japanese Pro Honinbo vs the Amateur Honinbo. The amateur would stand next to no chance in an even match but the handicap is adjusted each match (year).

 

I consider the 1989 match an anomaly. Cho was really strong at the time be he has always been known as an eccentric and may have chosen to challenge himself by playing the equivalent of an 4 DPS operative team strategy.

 

SWTOR, like chess, is harder to handicap than Go but given the wide disparity between derps like myself and top 20 players I think we could do quite well even with XvY matches. You could also handicap with bolster

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about, and I should thank Funk for it was well, because when we were discussing, "What makes a PvP tank good", we somewhat both came to the conclusion that there are no viable metrics for PvP. Some need to be introduced, and a noob tube(handicap) needs to be added based on some assumptions.

 

It's a monumental task, BUT this is they only real way to make PvP prosper. I just don't know if we can every garner enough support from the community and BW to start knocking these issues out one at a time....

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And also if they made better season rewards for group ranked rating vs a solo rating... Then more people would be inclined to do grouped which would hopefully fix the pop times on grouped

 

This is a good idea.

 

 

SWTOR, like chess, is harder to handicap than Go but given the wide disparity between derps like myself and top 20 players I think we could do quite well even with XvY matches. You could also handicap with bolster

 

Fitz...log on and tank for us man! Do you still play on The Bastion? lol

 

 

Cuz some of my peeps are not subs... Which sucks cuz we could get a team together

 

Doesn't it only take one sub to queue an entire team? I've always been a sub so I'm not sure about the particulars of preferred and F2P, but my understanding is that if one of the people in a group is a sub, they can queue an entire team of peeps regardless of their sub status.

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Because most PvP guilds either died off or sync solo to face easier opposition. Another reason is because there is no BW imposed match balancing(handicap) taking place. All guilds/players aren't created equal. People don't want to be farmed in any que. That's why most PvP guilds don't play team. Once the top team emerges, no one que. Then the too team Que sync or don't Que at all, just to be able to play something. It's systemic. If BW doesn't change it all of ranked will be a ghost town. Then regs will suffer and will also become a ghost town. PvP is on life support.

 

This is what I'd expect, too.

Edited by AlrikFassbauer
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Even though 8v8 ranked still had long queue times it had more of a following because it was more of a challenge and didn't exclude so many specs. In today's ranked to be competitive you can only use certain dps and tank specs. So when I hop on a say "hey who wants to q for ranked" you get replies like "sorry I'm in my commando, merc, dps op' shadow tank, anything but combat sent. It takes the fun out of pvp...I'd rather just group up and do regs. I could care less about rankings or rewards.
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T

Fitz...log on and tank for us man! Do you still play on The Bastion? lol

 

I only play on Bastion. Currently I'm working a lot and leveling toons because of 12x XP. I'm trying to get one of each AC on each faction...

 

On my guardian I've been playing full vigilance but I'd be happy to respec tank if I'm queuing for 55 PvP (and not leveling 12x XP)

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no. they would not. you would get the same influx of PvEers for about a week. they would realize that they're completely outclassed (and can't even be carried by random good players on their team) and have no shot at the rewards, so they'd stop Qing.

 

meanwhile, nobody else is going to Q to feed easy wins to the top 1 or 2 teams (per server) while simultaneously killing their own rating with each loss. grp queue is just not tenable at this point without a major balancing change. and the really good teams are going to go nuts if this happens, because they'd be handicapped for being good, which makes no sense in a format designed to rank teams in a hierarchy of skill.

 

I don't think it's possible to entice players who aren't the absolute top tier of their respective servers to queue ranked en mass, and that's the only thing that can save the format, imo. soloQ suffers a similar population problem, btw. it's just that there's a build-in "handicap" that allows a very small population to produce close matches as opposed to the continual roflstomps in grp with a small population.

 

I think you misunderstood... I meant if group ranked had better rewards than solo... More good people would be inclined to do grouped ranked

Can't help it if bad PVE people group queue ranked... Can't stop that... But they could then use solo ranked as more of a training ground... Realistically solo ranked should just be arena regs... So they can learn there

As for the top tier players/teams/guilds... Isn't that what ranked is for??... So that the best get to compete and are ranked accordingly... If people don't want to queue against them because it feeds them wins... Then they will never get better or be able to test their own skill progression... You can learn more off playing the best players than you can constantly winning against noobs... Even if you are losing to the best

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I think you misunderstood... I meant if group ranked had better rewards than solo... More good people would be inclined to do grouped ranked

Can't help it if bad PVE people group queue ranked... Can't stop that... But they could then use solo ranked as more of a training ground... Realistically solo ranked should just be arena regs... So they can learn there

As for the top tier players/teams/guilds... Isn't that what ranked is for??... So that the best get to compete and are ranked accordingly... If people don't want to queue against them because it feeds them wins... Then they will never get better or be able to test their own skill progression... You can learn more off playing the best players than you can constantly winning against noobs... Even if you are losing to the best

I got it. I think you're wrong. I've seen it happen every time. 8v8, 3 seasons now of 4v4. I mean...stuff picked up for 8s when transfers happened. but you do realize that every single iteration saw ranked queues suck because the same teams won and nobody else could get into the game. all they ever did that successfully increased queue populations was reset the populations with transfers and announce rewards that attracted ppl who had no business in rated in the first place.

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