Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Why are you so angry? I'm just trying to help you get better at playing an Arsenal Merc. No, you're just confusing your head-first Reno-smash play style with the "best" play style. There's nothing inherently "better" about getting stunned, interrupted, poisoned, immobilized, knocked back, swarmed, etc, in the name of doing higher raw DPS, when you can open up the full bag of tricks and avoid all that -- and kill the same things in about the same amount of time because you're not wasting time on your butt or with stars around your head or... E: Here's an example -- when you fight the Bothrium Beast, do you just hammer away on your four buttons, or do you interrupt the health drain and then use Hydraulic Overrides to resist the knockback AoE? Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 At this point you just have to chuckle a bit. People cling to the past but this is ridiculous. The entire conversation has spun off course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 No, you're just confusing your play style with the "best" play style. There's nothing inherently "better" about getting stunned, interrupted, poisoned, immobilized, knocked back, swarmed, etc, in the name of doing higher raw DPS, when you can open up the full bag of tricks and avoid all that. Ma'am, please calm down You've been told already by others aside from me, that Arsenal is a 4 button spec. Please try to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Another troll for the ignore list. Bye bye. Poor thing. I guess the horrifying revelation of arsenal being a 4 button spec was too much for her to handle. Oh well. Disciplines will be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Arsenal doesn't need to use anything but the standards rotation in most circumstances. Thats what I think he's trying to say. -Duran'del. Exactly what I've been trying to say but he wouldn't listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Exactly what I've been trying to say but he wouldn't listen. You were far to absolute. While Arsenal can use the 4-buttons snoozefest in most situation, situation like Max said were ones altering the snoozefest slightly was a better choice. Sure against 3-4 mobs you don't need you AoE. With 5-8 mobs, using some AOE help ending the fight much faster. Sure against the standard dummy trash, interrupt and stuns means nothing, against a mob the can finish Terminate before you kill it, interrupt suddenly becomes useful. And in PvP, against anyone decent, if you don,t even bother to use your kiting tool, your self heal, your DCD's, your breaker. You will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You were far to absolute. While Arsenal can use the 4-buttons snoozefest in most situation, situation like Max said were ones altering the snoozefest slightly was a better choice. Sure against 3-4 mobs you don't need you AoE. With 5-8 mobs, using some AOE help ending the fight much faster. Sure against the standard dummy trash, interrupt and stuns means nothing, against a mob the can finish Terminate before you kill it, interrupt suddenly becomes useful. And in PvP, against anyone decent, if you don,t even bother to use your kiting tool, your self heal, your DCD's, your breaker. You will die. In PVE the four buttons are the core of the rotation. At least to me it seems obvious the difference between core rotation and situational abilities. The core rotation are the abilities you must use to be effective and often are all the abilities needed depending on armor / health. Situational abilities are not part of your rotation, but yes... there are times they are 100% needed and times they are not needed at all. But a Gunnery / Arsenal merc can often get by on their core rotation alone: Grav Round, Full Auto, Demolition Round, High Impact Bolt Against 99% of trash mobs, those 4 are all you need. I believe that was Reno's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The entire point of my four-button comment wasn't to say mercs only ever use those four buttons, it was to say that the core of the damage rotation is a very simple four button spam. Yes there are situational uses for all the other buttons but that's situational. compare that to marauders who actually have a interesting damage rotation, instead of just spamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You were far to absolute. While Arsenal can use the 4-buttons snoozefest in most situation, situation like Max said were ones altering the snoozefest slightly was a better choice. Sure against 3-4 mobs you don't need you AoE. With 5-8 mobs, using some AOE help ending the fight much faster. Sure against the standard dummy trash, interrupt and stuns means nothing, against a mob the can finish Terminate before you kill it, interrupt suddenly becomes useful. And in PvP, against anyone decent, if you don,t even bother to use your kiting tool, your self heal, your DCD's, your breaker. You will die. If those 3-4 trash mobs are all standing close to each other, I'd rather use Fusion Missile, Exploding Dart, and/or Death From Above to finish them all off at once without taking any return fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) If those 3-4 trash mobs are all standing close to each other, I'd rather use Fusion Missile, Exploding Dart, and/or Death From Above to finish them all off at once without taking any return fire. Exploding Dart is junk. Sweeping Blasters and the other aoes you mentioned are far more effective. EditL Oh, and the BH equivalent of Pulse Cannon... should be flame sweep? Pulse Cannon is highly effective aoe. Edited November 16, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Exploding Dart is junk. Sweeping Blasters and the other aoes you mentioned are far more effective. Explosive dart doesn't require a placement click, so if eNPCs move out of the "cone" of sweeping shot, the dart stays on the dart-target. That's the main reason why I open with AoE attacks in my rotations and then stick with my button attacks. I hate the extra clicking because my mouse is never on a stable surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Exploding Dart is junk. Sweeping Blasters and the other aoes you mentioned are far more effective. EditL Oh, and the BH equivalent of Pulse Cannon... should be flame sweep? Pulse Cannon is highly effective aoe. Sweeping cost too much heat. Flamethrower = Pulse Cannon Flame Sweep = Explo Surge and is PT only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Explosive dart doesn't require a placement click, so if eNPCs move out of the "cone" of sweeping shot, the dart stays on the dart-target. That's the main reason why I open with AoE attacks in my rotations and then stick with my button attacks. I hate the extra clicking because my mouse is never on a stable surface. Sorry, I got explosive dart confused as the equivalent of Explosive Round, not Sticky Grenade. Editing original post to reflect that. Sweeping cost too much heat. Flamethrower = Pulse Cannon Flame Sweep = Explo Surge and is PT only. Sorry, Flamethrower is what I meant. And yeah, I am getting all the mirrors confused. Played a commando for coming up on 3 years now... no BH yet. Though identical (basically) in terms of mechanics. Just getting ability names confused today. Edited November 16, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Sorry, I got explosive dart confused as the equivalent of Explosive Round, not Sticky Grenade. Editing original post to reflect that. I think the Exploding round equiv is Death From Above. Haven't played my trooper lately, so I'm not certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I think the Exploding round equiv is Death From Above. Haven't played my trooper lately, so I'm not certain. Death from Above should be the equivalent of Mortar Volley iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I think the Exploding round equiv is Death From Above. Haven't played my trooper lately, so I'm not certain. Explo Round = Missile Blast Sticky = Dart May I suggest both of you to use Torhead when you need to translate abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Explo Round = Missile Blast Sticky = Dart May I suggest both of you to use Torhead when you need to translate abilities? Meh. lol Though, admittedly this conversation has been sort of derailed as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Exploding Dart is the one that's instant-fire, panics a trash mob, goes tick tick tick boom, AoE damage and knockdown. As mentioned, Sweeping Blasters doesn't give good return for the heat, which is why I'm a touch concerned to see that one of the mandatory Arsenal skills in the new system will be a crit bonus to that attack... that might just end up being perfume on a pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Death from Above should be the equivalent of Mortar Volley iirc Right, I can't remember all of my trooper's abilities now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Speaking of catering to small minorities, most players probably aren't forum-trawling, Dulfy-addicted, FOTM-copying, min-maxing endgame/PvP elitists, either. See how that works? Now the effect of changes on their gameplay are also meaningless, and we can ignore them too. At least they actually know and choose to play the game correctly. You're complaining because you want the choice to be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 As mentioned, Sweeping Blasters doesn't give good return for the heat, which is why I'm a touch concerned to see that one of the mandatory Arsenal skills in the new system will be a crit bonus to that attack... that might just end up being perfume on a pig. If you take the utility skill that increases the damage dealt by sweeping blasters by 25% it could become a very effective mob clearing tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) At least they actually know and choose to play the game correctly. You're complaining because you want the choice to be bad. What an interesting set of compounded assumptions on your part. Or you missed that said post was written with all intentional irony possible, to make a point about how easily some people will dismiss everyone else as "meaningless". Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The thing is, the choice it's removing is only an illusion if you make some very distinct but so very often unspoken assumptions, chief of which is that every player is chasing the last 0.1% damage / heals / defense they could wring out of the system and that this is the only and absolute criteria by which to judge any build. The smug notion some hold that "we'll get over it" is so much crap. It's just an easy, intellectually cheap way for people in favor of any particular change to dismiss the concerns of others and the negative impacts it might have. Some of us will deal with it and keep playing, some of us will in fact walk away from the game, but very few of us are going to just "get over it". I can say that if they'd announced Disciplines with or before the SoR announcement, I would not have per-ordered SoR. Thing is, Disciplines won't stop the constant tweaking, or the balance issues real or perceived*, or any of the things the change will supposedly improve -- the similar moves in other games didn't do anything to actually improve the situation for those games, either. The ONLY reason given for the change so far that makes ANY sense what so ever is the issue with adding additional levels causing the old system to fray at the seems. There had to be a way to fix that, that didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but evidently it was beyond their capacity. You say you wouldn't have preordered SOR if they announced disciplines with it, funny how thats exactly what they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You say you wouldn't have preordered SOR if they announced disciplines with it, funny how thats exactly what they did The announcement I saw, and the purchase screen, mentioned nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randont Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Why are you so angry? I'm just trying to help you get better at playing an Arsenal Merc. To quote Yoda, " Complex everything is to the simple minded." To press the four buttons do you use your face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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