SWTOR revenue down...the causes?

[LordArtemis]

Well with the companions I don't think it would happen because it would fall into personal story arc. But I liked gaining their rep and opening new missions. I think it would be a great filler if they added to this. For example make a story where two of them get into an argument and one takes off and gets into trouble. Now it takes you on an arc to figure what happen...something along those lines again will never happen.

 

Again because gear is sold in the CM this wouldn't happen, but in other Mmos I enjoy crafting armour sets in Swtor nobody crafts any armour. Just make it more usable then stims and top level mods that sell for ridiculous amounts GSH was a step in this direction ...and I have a ridiculous amount of credits...

 

Would you be interested in extensions of the companion storylines if they offered them in the CM?

[tdmaha]

Would you be interested in extensions of the companion storylines if they offered them in the CM?

 

Personally I would buy them but I think it would be a horrible mistake. This game I think already gets an unfair rap on its f2p system as you pointed out in your op (the unfair rap part). If they started adding content that's locked out even to subs they would alienate a lot of people and if you think these forums blew up over DPS doing that would put the forums on an entirely new level.

[Podge]

Revenue IMO would be down when the team get lazy and complacent and keep churning out packs filled with reskinned crap. There's no way I'm paying extra RL cash for what's been in the last dozen or so packs.

 

If others want to, fine, I'll have a look at the GTN and the occasional item that's on there I'll buy for creds. The most recent pack, the only item I was remotely interested in was the feign death regen tool... an entire pack and one item? The armour sucks, if it was legacy bound it might have more appeal but it's not so again, GTN and buy for creds for the ONE character that might suit it.

 

Yeah, BW will get my sub because I enjoy the completely unrestricted game... however I won't shed any tears if the udders on their little cash cow are running dry.

[ashikagaoda]

Would you be interested in extensions of the companion storylines if they offered them in the CM?

 

A big HELL yes. It's would be far more worth my money than the stupid random packs. ^_^

[Lotharofxev]

The game needs more CONTENT - PERIOD.

 

Cartel market is NOT content. It boggles my mind that we get "new" (often just reskins) Cartel packs every month and the last content was what? Oricon? Makeb? CZ-198? God it's been so long I can't remember.

 

Content. And to caveat off what Tdomaha said - not JUST at end game. Lord this game is linear. Just once I'd like to see a planet out of sequence. WoW did this well (granted they did not have class quests, but you don't have to do them for the 4th time either in SW). You had different CONTINENTS to level up in WoW.

 

Next, not to berate an idea, but putting ANY - CONTENT - on the CM is a losing proposition. Why on God's green earth should I pay $15/month and THEN have to fork over more $ for story? Meanwhile there are those who pay NOTHING. EVER.

 

Finally, at the end of the day, it's not my job to help Bioware / EA make money or turn a profit. If I like their product - I buy. If I don't - I go elsewhere. Simple as that.

[annabethchase]

Would you be interested in extensions of the companion storylines if they offered them in the CM?

 

If they started putting content, such as companion story, planetary story, character story, flashpoints, ops, or warzones behind a cartel market pay wall, you would lose me as a subscriber. I pay a subscription that is supposed to cover everything except vanity items. So far, it's basically done that.

 

The biggest exceptions to the vanity items only rule are 1) the data cubes for story from the Shroud 2) the grade 7 pve space parts 3) the various xp boosts.

 

Item 1) for the tiny amount of story it offered definitely rubbed the subscribers the wrong way. Some even quit over it. I believe Bioware got the message and will never pull that stunt again.

 

Item 2) broke the pve space game. I haven't seen a post talking about playing pve space since that came out. It's just a completely abandoned feature now that there's a pay wall to do the endgame of it.

 

Item 3) this stuff is cheap on the GTN and leveling is lightning fast anyway. If they were to start making leveling difficult and these items weren't abundant on the GTN, then I would start to feel abused as a subscriber. But I'm ok with these as they currently sit

[TravelersWay]

The main purpose of the post was to pave the way to insulate against revenue dips by increasing ARPPU. The reasons do not matter...only the ways to mitigate it in the future IMO.

 

My OP illustrates my personal opinion on the matter. Others have posted their own, including ones that disagree with mine, which is welcome discourse.

 

Not only that, many folks have posted what would motivate THEM to make CM purchases.

 

So, all in all, I would say the gigantic post worked as intended. It started a discussion, which was the intent.

 

The problem is that you can't mitigate it. This is the very nature of the business world - you have cycles that have valleys and peaks. Every single game publisher will have quarters wherein profits are not as high as forecast, and sometimes even lower. All of that has been planned for and adjusted in long term goals - which is the main concern. Yes, you are correct that there are always things that can be done to a certain extent to maximize profits - some are simple, others not so much, but to start pushing "panic" buttons because of the result of one quarter (and again, with no firm details on the exact numbers) is pretty asinine, as any businessman worth their salt will tell you.

 

In the end, it's just "there's nothing to see here, move along, move along."

[ashikagaoda]

The game needs more CONTENT - PERIOD.

 

Next, not to berate an idea, but putting ANY - CONTENT - on the CM is a losing proposition. Why on God's green earth should I pay $15/month and THEN have to fork over more $ for story? Meanwhile there are those who pay NOTHING. EVER.

 

Finally, at the end of the day, it's not my job to help Bioware / EA make money or turn a profit. If I like their product - I buy. If I don't - I go elsewhere. Simple as that.

 

You kind of answered your own question over there. You would pay that extra money to acquire/experience extra content for the game. Those who don't pay the sub fee won't have access to that content or the rest of the bells and whistles that come with a sub. And mind you - we're not taking expansion level content here. Just short missions - or access to additional dallies and the like.

 

And you're right, as a sub it's not your job to help Bioware / EA make money or buy any of the extras they develop for the game and sell through the CM. No one is going to force to buy that extra content. It would be up to you to make the decision to make that extra content part of your gameplay experience. You could always choose not too, as I have done for the costumes they sell on the CM. I just have 0 interest in that kind of stuff but I would pay money for additional story content happily.

 

And the big stuff, like expansion level content, items and tweaks to the game, should still be offered through content updates like SoR.

[Lotharofxev]

You would pay that extra money to acquire/experience extra content for the game. Those who don't pay the sub fee won't have access to that content or the rest of the bells and whistles that come with a sub. And mind you - we're not taking expansion level content here. Just short missions - or access to additional dallies and the like.

 

The day I have to pay for content, when I've been paying $12/month for years when there is NO Content upgrade is the day I cancel my account.

 

It's like I said pages ago, the only reason Bioware / EA would do something like that is to drive people off the subscription model and into the entire P2P M.O.

[Foambreaker]

...It is important to note that the amount of loss specific to SWTOR is not specified. It could be very small, or very large, that much is not known....

 

Or they could have made MORE MONEY and the other units lost money, this thread is pointless.

[TravelersWay]

The day I have to pay for content, when I've been paying $12/month for years when there is NO Content upgrade is the day I cancel my account.

 

It's like I said pages ago, the only reason Bioware / EA would do something like that is to drive people off the subscription model and into the entire P2P M.O.

 

I would have to agree with that to some extent. One could say that character and companion stories are a part of the core gameplay, and as such, should be included in the price (and perks) of a subscription player.

 

This is part of the problem that we have with the hybridization of the free to play business model. What should be included with the "Premium" option (i.e. the subscription), and what content would be considered to be above and beyond that monthly cost? And that seems to have always been a point of contention with F2P haters in regards to cosmetic items offered in cash shops as well. But common sense would dictate that a cosmetic look is not as important to core gameplay as the actual content that one would be playing through, so having different looking armor and weapons in a cash shop would not be an issue to be a charge above and beyond a subscription cost.

 

In a pure Free to Play game, there would be no question that things of this nature would, and should, be sold in the cash shop, as well as PvP maps, Raids, etc. That way, players have the choice of which particular piece of content they want to spend their money on. However, in a hybrid game, anything that can be considered core gameplay should always be included with the subscription, with the additional option of allowing purchase in the cash shop for those players who play for "free" to unlock that content.

[Max_Killjoy]

Or they could have made MORE MONEY and the other units lost money, this thread is pointless.

 

Interestingly, according to the accountant who posted, SWTOR couldn't have been listed in the "loss" notes unless it actually had experienced declining revenue. All that we don't know is the exact numbers.

 

To me, what's pointless is corporate culture's obsession with quarterly numbers.

 

 

The day I have to pay for content, when I've been paying $12/month for years when there is NO Content upgrade is the day I cancel my account.

 

I'd be tempted to cancel if they put core content behind the CM wall.

 

There was a time when you bought a game, and it was paid for, and you played it, without having to pay a rental fee. With SWTOR, we're paying for the game and for expansions AND we're paying rent, so EA is already double-dipping. Triple-dipping is where many of us would draw the line.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Oyranos]

One of the things I read allot in this forums when it comes of fixing old cosmetic bugs and performance, is....

 

"BIOWARE never fix the old stuff" and never looks back... But this is stupid to say it, because we paid to have a game without bugs, bugs are normal to exist and the company who sells the game is normal to fix them all the time.

 

An mmo never have old stuff, because if I enter an mmo today, that I never played the previews years, its all new to me.

 

So here is another reason... If trully bioware dont care about their bugs and old bugs... and cosmetic bugs... there is an issue. How many times we ve seen topics " I returned after 2 years and this thing still here!!"

 

Maybe this is an EA policy, but maybe they have to re-consider things, why some of their games dont do well. It gives you the feel that aliens are making their games and humans are so lazy or dont know how to fix them

Edited November 9, 2014 by Oyranos

[Max_Killjoy]

One of the things I read allot in this forums when it comes of fixing old cosmetic bugs and performance, is....

 

"BIOWARE never fix the old stuff" and never looks back... But this is stupid to say it, because we paid to have a game without bugs, bugs are normal to exist and the company who sells the game is normal to fix them all the time.

 

An mmo never have old stuff, because if I enter an mmo today, that I never played the previews years, its all new to me.

 

So here is another reason... If trully bioware dont care about their bugs and old bugs... and cosmetic bugs... there is an issue. How many times we ve seen topics " I returned after 2 years and this thing still here!!"

 

Maybe this is an EA policy, but maybe they have to re-consider things, why some of their games dont do well. It gives you the feel that aliens are making their games and humans are so lazy or dont know how to fix them

 

Bioware is terrible about fixing old issues. See also, the cutscenes in the Garrus loyalty mission in ME2.

[menofhorror]

Well I feel for the developers who spent a lot of work into this game.

But at the end of the day, it`s still EA and the top togs of EA have mostly no *********** clue about games and are often just greedy idiots. Guys like John Ricitello (or how his name was) are part of the reason why EA is so hated. They are simply idiots up there (of course applies to a lot of companies) but still...it`s a shame.

[errant_knight]

Here's the thing...more than half the comments in this thread are blaming Bioware for things that are outside their control. EA holds the purse strings and you can only do what you have the staff and funding to do. It also has to be remembered that if they hadn't joined up with EA, this game would never have been made. Yes, it was a faustian bargain, but we are where we are. All we can do is hope that EA starts funnelling more money into SWTOR, untieing their hands. Perhaps they already have, at least to an extent. This next expansion sounds way closer to the original vision than previous ones and you can be sure that it will be considered a bell-weather as to whether story content is something EA considerers a positive.

[Lotharofxev]

sure that it will be considered a bell-weather as to whether story content is something EA considerers a positive.

 

I was remarking to a friend this morning on the phone that this game is at the crossroads in many ways, and the expansion will go a long way towards determining the long-term survival.

[Pagy]

its not rocket science

the game went how long without a legitimate content update? sept 2013 oricon was released.

 

Since then we've received absolutely nothing of substance. starfighter is a joke and is terrible, and strongholds are glorified barbie dollhouses that are nothing more than rooms to stand in. you cant base a game off of this, it needs to be the sprinkles on the icecream not the entire meal.

 

anyway this earnings report doesnt include strongholds, which will bump revenue next quarter for certain and many would have bought cc's especially given the relative improvement of quality in the latest packs. and of course, the revan expansion.

[Styxx]

It also has to be remembered that if they hadn't joined up with EA, this game would never have been made. Yes, it was a faustian bargain, but we are where we are. All we can do is hope that EA starts funnelling more money into SWTOR, untieing their hands..

 

This game was one year in the making already when they were bought. Even then, they kept complete freedom over it, up where they tanked. Only THEN EA stepped in and took matter into their own hands.

 

I could bring evidence, but a simple google search will bring you all you need. Date of BW Austin being made, site up, announcement, EA buying VG Holding Corp date, Muzyka speaking about freedom, etc.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Styxx

[menofhorror]

many of course are only blaming EA but Bioware should also be cnsidered.

 

Remember previously they hadn`t got a large budget and they had to use it all to the best possible way. Suddenly they had a lot and like any person with a lot of money, they got reckless, thinking they could do everything and sell their games to a much wider audience with a larger budget. They got carried away. That`s what I assume. I mean it´s natural and makes sense to me.

[LyraineAlei]

Yea, there were some folks that felt that the reaction to Strongholds would be so positive that there would be no income drop for the next quarterly report. I stated that I didn't think Strongholds was strong enough to prevent that drop.

 

I am glad that they decided to open up the communication much more...perhaps they were planning that all along.

 

If they were planning poor communication and then better communication later, that was a poor decision to me. Better communication, while it may get people's hopes up too high (Strongholds, many were disappointed by how they turned out in the end), would keep outrage at a more reasonable level (DPS Nerf with very little details).

 

Better communication from BW would help us get a clearer image of what to expect when drastic changes (Discipline replacing Skill Trees) occur.

 

Better communication = happy customer base. And how do you get people to spend more money? You make them happy. Not too happy, but happy enough to be more willing to part with more money.

[BrintoSFJ]

It's an interesting idea...do you think the subscription is appealing enough to those folks at this time to get them to resubsubscribe?

Before they subscribe we have to show them that the support they provided eaware before the launch of swtor or after launch of swtor by buying collector's edition or digital deluxe edition is not wasted gesture. there are many players who bought 200+ $ worth of pre order copy. now they are being treated same way as a person who only spend 5$, that is a big slap in the face for many people. it is obvious more than 95% of them no longer play this game, forget about spending money. if they had a different access model in game with unlimited access up to all 50 content i am pretty much sure many of them would happily continue to spend money in game to get to 50+ content and continue playing the game. but of course i can not guarantee that even a single one of them would do so, no one can assure that but welcoming back these people would surely have a huge positive feedback on the game and community and also be a great publicity.

[fushnchips]

Cause 1: The Engine

 

The problem for this game from day 1 was the engine and this has really limited what we can get as players they knew this was a problem but decided not to look at other options for the engine.

 

Cause 2: Content

 

We have always had a lack of content not just for PvP players that really have had a rough ride but even on the PvE front it's just not a good mmo uptake of incoming game play.

 

Cause 3: Support & Community team

 

Communication is the worst thing that has come out of this game, Support taking up to 2 weeks or longer to even look at persons ticket as a subscriber that's not good enough and someone isn't doing the job they are paid to do. And then to the tickets that get auto closed every time and people can't get problems resolved without having to make international phone calls.

 

Community team needs to actually spread around the community and that is every server no excuses stop playing on the shadow lands.

 

Forum support are the worst if they even have them now if it wasn't for people like Owen Brooks the CS section would be a complete mess + they ban so many people for no reason at all if you have been banned i would suggest stand up and make a fuss just don't let them push you around.

Edited November 9, 2014 by elitenz

[Max_Killjoy]

its not rocket science

the game went how long without a legitimate content update? sept 2013 oricon was released.

 

Since then we've received absolutely nothing of substance. starfighter is a joke and is terrible, and strongholds are glorified barbie dollhouses that are nothing more than rooms to stand in. you cant base a game off of this, it needs to be the sprinkles on the icecream not the entire meal.

 

anyway this earnings report doesnt include strongholds, which will bump revenue next quarter for certain and many would have bought cc's especially given the relative improvement of quality in the latest packs. and of course, the revan expansion.

 

I don't understand the negative comments that strongholds get... they do have a lot of utility if you install the bank terminals, mailbox, various vendors, appearance kiosk, augment kiosk, etc, and there's the extra travel utility they offer, and so on. Using some spare funds to spruce the place up doesn't strike me as any different from Bioware making fleet into more than one long corridor of wall terminals for all your needed services.

 

But you're right in that such a thing can't be considered the meat and potatoes for an entire year of content.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Transcendent]

As I indicated earlier, and correctly so I might add, subscribers are NOT providing the proper level of revenue. Revenue should rise, not fall substantially as it has. That is always the preferred goal.

 

Content droughts can cause a lack of interest naturally, but so can a lack of desirable consumables in the CM

 

I think the lack of revenue from subscribers and lack of content go hand in hand. Fair enough we've had GSF / Strongholds / Conquest and we've seen the addition of arenas and queshball for pvp (as well as seasons). All niche areas. Yes we've seen continuing story for Forged Alliances along with some tactical flashpoints (good from my perspective), with SoR around the corner.

 

They're missing the fundamentals though, they're not fixing the issues that are raised. One of the big issues that was raised with GSF? No controller support. One of the big issues with Strongholds? Hooks. One of the big issues with PvP? Cross-server queues. It's like do a lot of everything, but be average at it. I will not say anything about lack of new operations.

 

Restrictions from F2P / Sub hybrid model aside. Cartel Market. Until I see figures showing how well this is earning revenue for BioWare / EA there really isn't too much that could be commented upon. However, from a players perspective? Stop simply changing colours on armours etc. Do QA on the sets released to stop clipping issues, stop messing with drops rates / prices for unlocking in collections etc etc.

 

Trouble is, in the process of everything BioWare try to do, they always seem to find a way to not meet expectations. Don't get me wrong here, i'm not complaining. I just think they could do better if they actually took on-board the feedback they get given and acted on it. Like letting bugs through from PTS to live.

 

It's all the little things that will make players move on to something else, and reduce revenue in the long run.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Transcendent