SWTOR revenue down...the causes?

[arunav]

Anyone who didn't expect this is a moron.

 

Biggest factor here is out of EA and Bioware control.

 

Wildstar and ESO launched in this reporting period and I was one of those players who paid to try those games and unsubbed here. I'm back as are many others. For all the flaws in SWTOR I think that without knowing just how much revenue is down the story here could in fact be positive.

 

I agree. Both PVE and PVP content has been very slow in 2014 (I am not including SOR because it is something we have to purchase in addition to the subscription, and it's at the end of the year), and other games have come out in 2014 that a lot of players would rather try out than keep doing the same thing over again on another character in SWTOR. To expect revenue to stay the same as 2013, when there was more playable content released, would be silly.

 

Now that SOR is arriving, I expect a lot people to come back. How long they stay is up to EA/BW and how much playable content they have lined up for 3.x.

 

To be fair to EA/BW, I think they expected GSF to be much more of a hit, and when it wasn't, 2014 seemed to lack content. The design and way it was released was kind of their fault, though.

Edited November 8, 2014 by arunav

[Jandi]

To be fair to EA/BW, I think they expected GSF to be much more of a hit, and when it wasn't, 2014 seemed to lack content. The design and way it was released was kind of their fault, though.

 

Maybe because no one wanted a PvP mini-game, but actual PvE space flying?

[LordArtemis]

I would assume...again that is all it is....that the projections for GSF were WAY off, but GSH did fairly well. Perhaps not as hoped, but not as badly as I suspect participation was with GSF.

 

However, again, I expect that GSF participation is MUCH higher than the the old PVE space combat system.

[Kalfear]

nice to see LA using a legitimate source for a change but once again he takes the findings and makes leaps of insanity to support his own agenda with out a shred of evidence of any kinda, flying completely in the face of previous stated evidence and comments by EA and other industry sources.

 

In no way does this report suggest F2P restrictions need to be lessened more.

 

In fact as F2P restrictions were in fact lessened to new levels this past year the report for anyone not trying to push their own agenda would suggest exactly opposite of what LA says.

 

LESS MONEY is paid out when you give more away for free

Hardly a new or earth shattering concept

 

And how the hell do you make the leap that 12x xp has helped game at this stage with out a single solid number to support that claim?

 

I play on Harbinger, the highest pop server going, and this past week saw the lowest levels on planets (including starter planets) I have seen since returning 5-6 months ago. So by going just by casual observation the 12x xp has lessened activity over all allowing people to finish up class stories and leave game for something else.

 

Guild Im in 6 months ago routinely had 25-40 players online daily during peak hours.

Last 2 weeks its been down to single digits and sometimes under 3 online (and no they not just playing unguilded alts by everyones own admissions)

 

There is ZERO evidence to reasonably suggest lowering or removing F2P restrictions will help this game in any manner and even less then zero evidence to suggest faster leveling increases activity and profits for EA in SW:TOR.

 

Honestly all the evidence )if you care to even look at it) says exactly opposite of what LA claims.

 

And as pointed out time and time and time again by EA themselves.

Most of the cartel shop money comes from SUBSCRIBERS already.

So lowering F2P restrictions will just allow people to cheap to pay a sub more content for free REDUCING the already minimal chance they would financially support game.

 

LA. your obvious agenda is getting boring already.

Grats on finally using legitimate and real source but your still trying to spin the results in the way you want them to read rather then just accepting the results for what they are.

 

Profits are down and there will be a number of reasons for that

Many to do with just over all confidence of players in EA as a company

Many to do with over all confidence in direction of game thats announce

Many to do with game giving to much away for free that the virtual carrot needed to draw subscribers in is being eliminated which lowers new sub earned.

And

Many to do with players eating up the content at a new high speed rate that they come in, do the class missions, leave as they saw what they wanted to see in a week. Before you might get 2-3 months sub from them for same content. Now its wham, bamm, done, and moved on.

 

EA does need to make some directional changes to this game if it wants to hold on for 8-10 years of even small profitability but giveing it all away for free as you suggest would be the literal final nail in coffin for this game.

 

What EA needs to do is start approaching SW:TOR as the mindset of a pre WOW MMORPG where they know they have a smaller but loyal base of subscribers and develop and design the game around that player base.

 

Giving it all away for free will just drive subscribers away who feel they being taken advantage of and NOT promote new income streams from players who have been crystal clear they have no interest now or ever in supporting game financially.

[LordArtemis]

Maybe because no one wanted a PvP mini-game, but actual PvE space flying?

 

Well, I think in all fairness the top picks, at least for the limited poll that was done were related to BF2. So I expect something very similar to BF2 would have been much more popular.

 

By leaving out the joystick control, twitchy feel, on foot combat, shallow power curve and ability to defend/take control of stations on capital ships, as well as a lack of a PVE trainer, they pretty much gimped the features chances IMO.

[arunav]

Maybe because no one wanted a PvP mini-game, but actual PvE space flying?

 

I disagree. I don't think any AI could possibly be as engaging as another player. In fact, it would be really boring.

 

The problem was, in my view, the controls were much too sensitive to learn in a reasonable period for most players, and the way it was released over several updates made it even more difficult for new players to join in, since the ones who stuck with it had their ships upgraded already.

 

Also, they should have released Denon map by the "official" launch in February. And it's a no-brainer that players would have wanted to use joysticks, but perhaps this wasn't technically possible. The latter alone would have kept me playing, I believe. I love flight sims in general, but could not get into GSF despite trying from early access.

Edited November 8, 2014 by arunav

[LordArtemis]

nice to see LA using a legitimate source for a change ...

 

LA. your obvious agenda is getting boring already.

Grats on finally using legitimate and real source but your still trying to spin the results in the way you want them to read rather then just accepting the results for what they are.

 

lol

 

Always a pleasure Kalfear.

Oh, and BTW....the CU/NGE came about because SOE/Lucasarts wanted WoW like sub levels, not because they were bleeding subs. Because, of course...they were not.

 

You might consider taking your own advice for once.

Edited November 8, 2014 by LordArtemis

[_NovaBlast_]

Maybe because no one wanted a PvP mini-game, but actual PvE space flying?

 

QFT

 

if they made it like pve sto battles it would be awesome. Right now i don't do either space or gsf

[Jandi]

I disagree. I don't think any AI could possibly be as engaging as another player. In fact, it would be really boring.

 

That's not really true. Soloing a Star Destroyer in SWG with an X-Wing was incredibly hard, nerve wrecking and exciting. One mistake and you were done.

 

On a personal note, I find GSF incredibly boring, predictable and slow-paced. The only variable is which way someone will bank when you open up on them but beyond that? Not much changes from fight to fight. And that's my issue with PvP in general, it's far more simplistic than people make it out to be once you know what each class can and can't do.

 

The problem was, in my view, the controls were much too sensitive to learn in a reasonable period for most players, and the way it was released over several updates made it even more difficult for new players to join in, since the ones who stuck with it had their ships upgraded already. Also, they should have released Denon by the "official" launch in February.

 

I started to grind it with a new toon a few weeks ago, still not a problem. People just don't want to lose and in PvP, someone always loses.

 

E: Although I must add that I played Freelancer, an old space sim, quite a bit back in the day and the controls were exactly the same, so there was no learning curve for me.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Jandi

[Vandicus]

Arbitrarily attributing revenue changes to any single particular practice is a poor method to analyze business practices.

 

There are quite a few things we don't know about their revenue for the period.

Is there a material change in reported revenue due to an attempt at smoothing?

Is revenue below or above expectations?(decreased revenue for the project could've been well in line with their expectations given market conditions such as competition)

If revenue did not meet expectations for the period, what segments of their revenue were underperforming or delivering superior performance?

Are any of these differences material in size?

 

Missing this kind of data makes it difficult to attribute revenue changes to any of their current practices.

 

To address your suggestions individually(and independent of supposing that the revenue decrease was a result of existing practices):

 

1. CM items appear inflated in price because they charge a exclusivity premium(which is related to their repeatedly retiring purchase options from the market). This is more thoroughly addressed when discussing point 4 below.

 

Adding more convenience options in the CM would increase revenue. It'd cost more than what it costs to develop cosmetics, as the convenience options require more diverse changes to the game, but some resources may be underutilized anyways(like QA testing; though the Shadow Realms team is allegedly absorbing a lot of the Austin team's excess capacity already). This does have the possibility of being beneficial.

 

 

2. Biggest reason to have f2pers and preferred is churn, second biggest is to populate the game. Your suggestion trades off subscriber revenue(in the long-term and recurring segment of the community) for more fresh subscriber revenue. Functionally, your suggestion is little different from a life-time subscription option(a one-time payment), which while having debatable benefits for a business(good if you don't expect to be able to maintain your current subscriber base, bad if you expect to keep it relatively stable), has inevitable long-term consequences for the community.

 

Because it front-loads revenue(which is independent of future content) by sacrificing future revenue(which depends on the continuous release of content), this continuously decreases the incentive to develop new content or listen to community feedback(the reason gamers object to games having a lifetime-subscription option).

 

3. Packs are generally the best way to deliver cosmetics(and often-times other desirable items). Direct sales methods really don't outperform it. The way they've set it up so that you can acquire items through intermediaries(the GTN) allows them to collect whatever small upside their might be on direct sales as well.

 

4. Maintaining too large of a sales catalog rapidly loses its benefit. 200,000 possible options has very little benefit to a consumer over 200 possible options, which has a small benefit to the consumer over 50 possible options(a simplification, but useful for explanation) . Losing the additional revenue from continuously having a large offering is most likely more than offset by the additional exclusivity premium that they attach to available items.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Vandicus

[annabethchase]

Well, yes it does make sense that after 2 duds of mini-expansions that we would see declining revenue. I think it's equally clear that a 2 planets, 2 ops expansion with Class Story is eliciting much more excitement. This is evidenced by the preorder activity and the number of users online.

 

That said, we are also 3 years into the game's lifecycle now. We are no longer in the new stage of the game and it probably is time to change the F2P model. I don't think the model should change often, but every couple of years it can be revisited.

 

Major things to change for f2p and preferred 1) the credit cap needs to increase to account for inflation 2) the trade restriction 3) the wz restriction should loosen some. These are just examples, I'd pick about 10 things to improve in this major model update.

 

I also would change preferred to requiring SoR to unlock, aka a minimum of $20 spent on the game.

 

Yes, subscribers should get a few new perks. 1) 12x xp unlock per character for story or wz or gsf (not fp's, the gear would suck too badly). 2) 1 pack a month in the mail 3) Loot bags, 1 ops per week you can choose to get a loot bag just like when the game launched. Again, just example ideas, I'd put in about 5 of these.

[BrianDavion]

one thing to consider as well is that the time period for this revenue drop includes the Nightlife packs. which ahd such a retardedly poor drop rate that it may have meant less people where buying packs at the time thus contributing. it's only a theory but I know I and everyone else I know didn't buy as many of those packs as normal, it's just a theory but it would explain as well the varying prices BW's been putting on the packs slightly.

 

that said I tend to agree the reason for the reduced revenue from last year is proably because of "pre-expansion lull"

[Max_Killjoy]

Maybe because no one wanted a PvP mini-game, but actual PvE space flying?

 

Pretty much dead on. I wouldn't say no one wanted PvP, but the fact that it was a PvP mini-game disconnected entirely from everything else really disappointed a lot of us.

[Lotharofxev]

Maybe because no one wanted a PvP mini-game, but actual PvE space flying?

 

So.Much.Win.

[Anysao]

I think it's because of South Park's episode stating that Freemium games are agents of the Canadian Devil.

[krisknife]

allot of assumptions in this thread, even from OP. No one knows all the facts outside BW.

 

I have issues with this statement

If someone does not like the idea of F2P but yet only pays 15 a month, IMO they are part of the problem.

 

BW and YOU both admit that subs pay more in the Cartel market than f2p do, we aren't the problem , the problem is f2p players not wanting to spend apparently xD. I get you are a f2p lobbyist, post history and what not, but if the people currently not paying get ways to play game more by no paying how does that solve anything??

 

As a previous f2p, allods, Runes of Magic, Shayia, etc,the amount you have to spend just to play is insane, so to me if you aren't paying the $15 min a month you are part of the problem, I mean it's $15, I have spent hundreds a month on previous f2p sadly enough, I was young and still learning lol.

 

Lets talk about that $15 and why subs are more important to things like shareholders, that is a much better conversation.

 

This is all conjecture , could be economy , could be lul in waiting for exp pack, could be allot of things but lets pick one . Seems to me someone has an agenda on this f2p stuff and this is just a convenient "straw man", still love ya tho LA , calls it like I sees it sir , as always just my two pennies on the matter.

Edited November 8, 2014 by krisknife

[LordArtemis]

allot of assumptions in this thread, even from OP. No one knows all the facts outside BW.

 

That's fair.

 

BW and YOU both admit that subs pay more in the Cartel market than f2p do, we aren't the problem , the problem is f2p players not wanting to spend apparently xD. I get you are a f2p lobbyist, post history and what not, but if the people currently not paying get ways to play game more by no paying how does that solve anything??

 

As a previous f2p, allods, Runes of Magic, Shayia, etc,the amount you have to spend just to play is insane, so to me if you aren't paying the $15 min a month you are part of the problem, I mean it's $15, I have spent hundreds a month on previous f2p sadly enough, I was young and still learning lol.

 

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the statement you posted.

 

That statement is NOT for the people that pay, the ones that Bioware is talking about. The statement pertains to those that COMPLAIN about F2P and yet do not spend anything more than 15 bucks in a month.

 

Therefore, they are part of the reason F2P exists in that particular game.

 

Now, to be clear....

 

Obviously, if revenue is a concern and you are only looking at revenue source....

 

Those that pay nothing are most to blame.

Those that pay only 5 dollars and then nothing are next in line for blame.

Those that pay only 5 dollars and then pay no more than 10 or 15 dollars a month are next in line for blame.

Those that pay for a sub but then pay nothing else are next in line to blame.

 

Those that are not to blame are those that are preferred and subscribers that spend more than 15 bucks a month on the game. Those players are part of the solution. And it is likely there are more subs paying more than 15 bucks a month than there are preferred players.

 

So there it is.

 

 

Lets talk about that $15 and why subs are more important to things like shareholders, that is a much better conversation.

 

It is a fair statement to say that investors generally like to see stable rising subscriber numbers. However, that is changing....it is becoming more and more important to see the level of monetization and revenue growth.

 

This is all conjecture , could be economy , could be lul in waiting for exp pack, could be allot of things but lets pick one . Seems to me someone has an agenda on this f2p stuff and this is just a convenient "straw man", still love ya tho LA , calls it like I sees it sir , as always just my two pennies on the matter.

 

lol, you too with the strawman. Well, obviously I am very pro F2P/hybrid and push that in my suggestions. I don't hide from that.

 

Always appreciate your comments Krisknife.

Edited November 8, 2014 by LordArtemis

[OddballEasyEight]

The cause is, honestly, most likely because there's been very little big content over the year.

 

By big content, I'm talking either a large expansion, or just new PvE and PvP operations/warzones.

 

I'm pretty sure that, when SoR releases, SWTOR revenue will increase by a lot, and for a long time too.

 

Yup... this guy gets it.

 

Strongholds was nice and all, but it wasn't anything that contributed to the gameplay.

There hasn't been new PvE or PvP content for a long time.

 

Granted, bioware churns out expansions faster than its targeted competitor, but its still not being churned out fast enough.

That might change if revenues go up again after SoR.

And one must take into consideration that any investments into the game being done now is based on last years revenue.

So if it turns out that revenues pick up after the release of SoR, we might see an increase in expansion pack releases.

 

This certainly has shown the decisionmakers that just having a base game and releasing content in the form of cartel packs isn't enough to keep customers interested.

Nor does QoL and ancillary things like Strongholds (ie. housing) manage to keep an interest in the game.

 

So hopefully we'll see more actual gameplay content releases, if not on an expansion scale, then maby on the Forged Alliances scale inbetween expansions.

[Oyranos]

i pay only sub, but I do buy packs from gtn and some times I spend my free cc in packs... So I motivate those who pay real money in cc, to pay more... lol

 

Do you want me to leave, do you blame me? lol...

 

but I forgot my sub expires in Jenuary.

 

I ve said it months ago, they need to unlock more credits for the f2p and preffered, be able to buy our crafts, packs, etc... Restricting the market to subs and some items for the preffered its stupid.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Oyranos

[LyraineAlei]

QoL things that would get -me- to pay for coins more often:

• Expansion to the Character Appearance Creator. While not with it broken down as human hair pack A, Miraluka hair pack A and such with the same styles, if they had "Hair Expansion Pack A" and "Pack B", or "Tattoo Pack A", " Scars Pack A", "Cyborg Expansion Pack A" and the like, I would buy those from the CM.
  
• Maybe, maybe, put the otherwise common drops (Cyborg Armor I am looking at you), on the CM to buy at say 200 or 500 CC, and then have the rarer sets all broken into parts (not even armor boxes, but the parts themselves) into packs with equal chances of getting each part or item. This will allow those who want those common drop items to get them. This is one I'm a little iffy on personally.
  
• I like how we can just go and buy some of the Stronghold decorations from the CM, and I keep hoping that more follows that trend. Fancy, specific things should be rotated or kept in packs to keep them from being too common. but basic items like the GTN should always be in the CM.
  
• More dyes available, not just from the Dye pack, but in general. OR, for subscribers, a more flexible system where subs can choose the colors they want for a discounted price (ex. Black/Black for subs could be 1000 CC or 500 CC + 1m credits or something)
  
• I know we can play our classes however we want, but sure as hell would be nice if we had a tutorial or mission sequence that would teach us how to heal/tank/dips without going to another page or something.
  
• GSF could use a more indepth tutorial- maybe have us practice shooting at something shooting back or AIs flying other ships.
  
• Another GSF thought: A PvE type arena where you group up FP style and defeat AI ships, explore the map, or complete tasks (capture enemy base, defend base, shoot 15 ships down and so forth)
  
• The ability to mail things to Alts, and have those Alts ready in a drop-menu like Friends and Guildmembers.
  
• A more flexible Companion Customization system, Prefs and F2Ps who bought the unlocks, get access to the full sets currently available. Subs would get an upgrade to the Character Customization Module, where they can pick and choose parts from the different sets (ex. say I want Mako default to have a different hair style, the module would allow me to pick from all the Mako sets, what parts I want and what I dont) and for CC, have the look as a Legacy Unlock look of sorts, or for Credits (say 5K for hair alterations and such), pay per character for a unique looking Companion.
  
• A subscriber reward system (subscriber for 3 months, get y item, likely a recolor or something)
  

 

QoL that I think might retain some players (F2P or Not):

 

• A decent Customer Service system, maybe even allow Prefs access to them since Prefs have spent some money and may be lured into paying again. This CS would also go into fixing known bugs, posting them as a way of saying "these we know about" (unless they are game cheats of some kind), with the known work arounds (if any) and an estimated time for the bug to be fixdd ( maybe, they located where it is in the coding and are finding out what it will break or something, so about a few weeks or more). This would make players feel like the game is not partially abandoned by the makers, leaving known bugs in because Devs are lazy or something.
  
• The class tutorials idea should go down here
  
• More communication between Devs and players. Maybe, instead of saying "DPS is being nerfed." they could have said "We are nerfing DPS to bring them into balance with the new discipline system in PvP."
  
• Name System would allow Roman Numerals, spaces, numbers.
  

 

Tl;Dr: Lyraine's thoughts on what she would do.

[annabethchase]

Granted, bioware churns out expansions faster than its targeted competitor, but its still not being churned out fast enough.

 

Does it? We are supposed to be at a significantly faster cadence than WoW since we get $20 expansions and much less content. This is a stated goal of Bioware. However, the time between the 2nd and 5th WoW expansions averaged 23 months. So SoR is coming 20 months after ROTHC, for a net improvement of 3 months. I'm not sure 3 months can be considered significant in this comparison, but the difference in content amount per expansion is.

 

Yes, I acknowledge WoW pulls in more revenue than SWTOR, and thus can afford it. But so can EA on what SWTOR makes already. Plus I'm convinced that SWTOR could still build a bigger player base in 2015 with a full fledged expansion with a new movie tie-in planet.

[hadoken]

I wouldn't read terribly much into an earnings report taken before the 12x xp boost offer started, and before the Revan expac was announced.

[Damask_Rose]

Since Artemis is interested in monetization I'll give a little insight on what my family spends cc on and what I would like to see added for me to spend cc on.

 

I"m the big spender in the family. I like to buy a hypercate of each new release and I like to unlock things in collections. I bought housing unlocks and legacy storage bays with cc. I bought all of the customizations when they came out. I buy individual items when they are on sale.

 

My husband and Mother-in-law are sporadic subscribers who have been back for a couple of months. They have been buying cc for the first time. They have spend them on some individual items - mounts, weapons and Halloween decorations. MIL bought housing decorations. They both bought housing unlocks and species unlocks. Husband bought character slots.

 

There are a number of things I would spend additional cc on.

 

-I would spend a small fortune on appearance tabs for characters and companions alike.

-I would like to unlock cartel rep armor in my collections (it bothers my mild OCD that I can see them in my collection, but not actually collect them.)

-I would like to be able to unlock modless versions of modded cartel market armor in my collections. As it stands I won't buy them at all.

-I would like to be able to unlock pets and mounts sold from regular vendors in my collections.

-I would buy just about any character customization or species they added.

-I would be all over Grand Acquisition Decoration packs. (I bought quite a few crystal ones, the others didn't seem worth it.)

-I would buy character unlocks if we could go over 22.

[Oyranos]

QoL things that would get -me- to pay for coins more often:

• Expansion to the Character Appearance Creator. While not with it broken down as human hair pack A, Miraluka hair pack A and such with the same styles, if they had "Hair Expansion Pack A" and "Pack B", or "Tattoo Pack A", " Scars Pack A", "Cyborg Expansion Pack A" and the like, I would buy those from the CM.
  
• Maybe, maybe, put the otherwise common drops (Cyborg Armor I am looking at you), on the CM to buy at say 200 or 500 CC, and then have the rarer sets all broken into parts (not even armor boxes, but the parts themselves) into packs with equal chances of getting each part or item. This will allow those who want those common drop items to get them. This is one I'm a little iffy on personally.
  
• I like how we can just go and buy some of the Stronghold decorations from the CM, and I keep hoping that more follows that trend. Fancy, specific things should be rotated or kept in packs to keep them from being too common. but basic items like the GTN should always be in the CM.
  
• More dyes available, not just from the Dye pack, but in general. OR, for subscribers, a more flexible system where subs can choose the colors they want for a discounted price (ex. Black/Black for subs could be 1000 CC or 500 CC + 1m credits or something)
  
• I know we can play our classes however we want, but sure as hell would be nice if we had a tutorial or mission sequence that would teach us how to heal/tank/dips without going to another page or something.
  
• GSF could use a more indepth tutorial- maybe have us practice shooting at something shooting back or AIs flying other ships.
  
• Another GSF thought: A PvE type arena where you group up FP style and defeat AI ships, explore the map, or complete tasks (capture enemy base, defend base, shoot 15 ships down and so forth)
  
• The ability to mail things to Alts, and have those Alts ready in a drop-menu like Friends and Guildmembers.
  
• A more flexible Companion Customization system, Prefs and F2Ps who bought the unlocks, get access to the full sets currently available. Subs would get an upgrade to the Character Customization Module, where they can pick and choose parts from the different sets (ex. say I want Mako default to have a different hair style, the module would allow me to pick from all the Mako sets, what parts I want and what I dont) and for CC, have the look as a Legacy Unlock look of sorts, or for Credits (say 5K for hair alterations and such), pay per character for a unique looking Companion.
  
• A subscriber reward system (subscriber for 3 months, get y item, likely a recolor or something)
  

 

QoL that I think might retain some players (F2P or Not):

 

• A decent Customer Service system, maybe even allow Prefs access to them since Prefs have spent some money and may be lured into paying again. This CS would also go into fixing known bugs, posting them as a way of saying "these we know about" (unless they are game cheats of some kind), with the known work arounds (if any) and an estimated time for the bug to be fixdd ( maybe, they located where it is in the coding and are finding out what it will break or something, so about a few weeks or more). This would make players feel like the game is not partially abandoned by the makers, leaving known bugs in because Devs are lazy or something.
  
• The class tutorials idea should go down here
  
• More communication between Devs and players. Maybe, instead of saying "DPS is being nerfed." they could have said "We are nerfing DPS to bring them into balance with the new discipline system in PvP."
  
• Name System would allow Roman Numerals, spaces, numbers.
  

 

Tl;Dr: Lyraine's thoughts on what she would do.

Also expansion in human male faces!! its all Asiatic its hilarious. So a Caucasian pack A and Caucasian pack 2 faces for human male... It lucks allot in that one. But I have to admit, this things shouldnt be sold at all, because the game lucks in caucasian faces, its a character creator ideal for Asia.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Oyranos

[Lotharofxev]

Here's what $60 gets from Blizzard:

 

Warlords of Draenor features:

 

New continent of Draenor (7 zones, 1 PvP zone)

Build and upgrade your Garrison

A level 90 character boost (<-- hate that)

New player character models

7 new Dungeons and 2 new Raids

A Heroic version of Upper Blackrock Spire

New World Bosses

New Challenge modes

New World PvP Zone

New Scenarios

Level cap raised to 100

New class talents and permanent ability bonuses

 

*********************

 

I'm not sure EA / Bioware can justify attempting to keep DF / DP relevant with a DPS nerf while the # 1 MMORPG releases all of the above.

Refined quest system with hundreds of new quests

. . . and more!