You know, it really is rude to pull if you're not the Tank.

[Loadsamunny]

So I've had quite a few chumps try to do my job for me in random FPs this week, normally I don't say anything to them because it's not worth my time or energy to get heated, so I simply let them do as they please and go on with the FP. If they're particularly annoying me, I may decide to just let them keep the aggro of whatever they pull, die, and have to either wait or hoof it back, and pay the repair bill. It's mean, but I like making people learn the hard way because it's good incentive.

 

The last one however made me fairly angry. I pick up a Random Hard 55 for Hammer Station, and as soon as I've loaded in, the healer and one DPS is with me next to the shuttle, and the other DPS is already in combat. He dies, we mop up what he aggroed, and we play on, could've just been a fluke. Next pull, he jumps in when nobody is ready, so I let him die again, pick up the adds after he dies and we clean up again. He starts yelling at me for not "doing my job." So I tell him to stop pulling for me and I'll gladly take the aggro.

 

Next pull, what do you know, he jumps in before the healer is even ready. He dies, I pick up the trash and with judicious use of my panic buttons and some mean damage from the other (keeping them off him with Challenging Call and Saber Reflect), we manage to conquer without the healers presence. He goes off on me calling me a worthless tank and "I'll pull if I want to pull." At this point I've had enough and I call a votekick, and the others voted him out in all of 5 seconds. After we replaced him, the FP went smooth as silk.

 

Normally I don't get so mad at people trying to do my job for me. People are impatient and want to clear a FP quickly, I understand this. But it really is bad etiquette to pull for your tank. It's rude, it's a slap in their face, regardless of whether they're keeping up or going a bit slow. Even in an easy FP like a 50 or a Tactical, it's rude.

 

I'll admit it, I'm not a fast moving tank, I'm not Speedy Gonzalez or Roadrunner or Sonic or any other super-fast character you can think of. But I'm thorough. I make sure my team is ready for the pull before I jump in, I make sure my position is good so we don't get screwed over by a bad knockback (this has happened on Hammer before), I remind my group of the mechanics of any boss fight before starting it, and I make sure my team is SAFE. And pulling for your tank is one thing, but when you go off on a tantrum afterwords because "the tank is too slow" and "not doing his job" then it only makes you look like an enormous turd.

 

TL;DR, just an angry rant from an unappreciated Guardian Tank. It may sound a bit self serving, but don't piss your tank off. Good DPS is nice, but a Tank, even a bad one (being slow doesn't make you bad, and never let anyone try to tell you otherwise), is the CORNERSTONE of a successful group, and short of an unforgiving enrage timer, you won't get anywhere without the Tank or the Healer.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Loadsamunny

[Essence_of_Light]

It sucks, but it happens. The good news is when you ignore the not-so-wise-guy, you won't be put in a PvE GF group with him again.

[Malorey]

That would have made an awesome Youtube vid!

 

Hope you feel better now OP and I think you sound like a great tank!

[IndigoHawk]

One correction: you aren't as unappreciated as you think. 2 dps and 1 healer appreciated you. Don't let the bad apple overshadow the people who supported your leadership and completed the content with you.

 

I also agree with ignore early, ignore often. There is an endless supply of rude people. I try to let people know when they've crossed the line and give them a second chance, but if they don't take it, especially if they start yelling at people, I votekick and ignore, just like what you did.

[Lotharofxev]

he jumps in

 

MArauder?

[JattaGin]

I think you are even too polite with this guy. It's not only that he took ya job, it's way more than that. He rushes into the first fight alone. He jumps into another fight while the healer is not available etc. This is not a bad DPS issue. This goes way deeper and deserves a bold /facepalm.

 

I picture that angry gamer type of guy. First his game does not load for too long and then he dies.

[Pirana]

Much more patience than I have. The second time it occurs, I initiate the vote kick, promptly followed up with use of the ignore function. I run two tanks, and my Shadow's ignore list is rather long, all dps.

 

The occasional oops, that sometimes occurs with the Sentinels/Marauders leaping ability isn't a big deal, it happens. I've done it a few times, but you quickly recognize the trend.

 

Either way though. keep on tanking. This game needs more of us.

[Darkelefantos]

Your post fits right into this thread.

[AxeGaijin]

My philosophy when playing a tank; You pull it, you deal with it.

 

Of course there have been exceptions to the rule, using a Ranger in EverQuest to find mobs and lead them back to the group in places like Oasis or using a Hunter to pull and kite certain mobs or bosses in WoW.

 

But yeah, don't pull unless you're told to if you're not the tank, this also illustrates why I hate PUGs.

Edited October 26, 2014 by AxeGaijin

[Spetulhu]

The occasional oops, that sometimes occurs with the Sentinels/Marauders leaping ability isn't a big deal, it happens. I've done it a few times, but you quickly recognize the trend.

 

Aye. You sometimes jump in by mistake and get left with something angry hitting you in the face. I'll either bring it to the tank or try to burn it, then go on with the mobs under control. You do have some excellent survival CDs to hit if it looks bad so no need to cry for heals immediately. Tanks doing those pushbacks might be having some fun at your expense though... I'm sure some of them wait until I Force Charge to knock mobs off a cliff etc so I go straight after them. :-)

 

And when shooting stuff down fast it happens that a merc etc alt-tabs too fast and gets more friends. Apologize and carry on, try not to do it again.

[Warrgames]

Much more patience than I have. The second time it occurs, I initiate the vote kick, promptly followed up with use of the ignore function. I run two tanks, and my Shadow's ignore list is rather long, all dps.

 

I use to vote to kick, there are too many people who reply "lets just finish this dude" and wouldn't kick them.

 

So now I warn once.

After the second time dps pulls. I tell the group: This is a game. <Mara Name> is annoying me and I'm not having fun. So I'm out, good luck with the rest of the run.

 

If anyone whisper me to complain, they join the bad dps. I then cycle between my 3 tanks and 3 healers and place them on ignore so I don't have that problem on one of them.

 

Its game meant to be fun, if I'm not having fun I'm not going to do something.

[Halinalle]

This is not a bad DPS issue. This goes way deeper and deserves a bold /facepalm.

 

I have to agree, "I can solo this! Watch me dying!" is just pure stupidity.

Trigger-happy dps can be dealt with but there's no way you can deal with stupid.

 

Also, why it's so that Stealth -> Kinetic Ward/Dard Ward = "Go! Go!"?

I would at least wait for Force Pull/Force Breach/Discharge.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Halinalle

[BaineOs]

I'm not dissing the op when I say this in the slightest but the few times I've done some group finder flashpoints the tank has quite often been sooooooooooo slow it's insane. You can be thorough without being insane slow, there's nothing worse than having a tank in your group that seems to wait a minute between every encounter

 

Then again when it comes to tanking on the even far fewer situations when I've done some tanking I'm one of the fast ones, never seems to take long to check peoples health and energy/force levels.

[Halinalle]

I'm not dissing the op when I say this in the slightest but the few times I've done some group finder flashpoints the tank has quite often been sooooooooooo slow it's insane. You can be thorough without being insane slow, there's nothing worse than having a tank in your group that seems to wait a minute between every encounter

 

Then again when it comes to tanking on the even far fewer situations when I've done some tanking I'm one of the fast ones, never seems to take long to check peoples health and energy/force levels.

 

Tank should always pull next group as soon as previous one is dealt with? Preferably when dps is still killing the last enemy?

Edited October 26, 2014 by Halinalle

[AlrikFassbauer]

Hammerstation, HM, I waited and waited for the tank to pull ... Nothing. Then I attacked. As a DD.

It turned out that the original tank didn't have that much experience yet, so it was not that bad, because we had a Vanguard, too. Who partially took over the tank's role.

Edited October 26, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Grayseven]

I'm not dissing the op when I say this in the slightest but the few times I've done some group finder flashpoints the tank has quite often been sooooooooooo slow it's insane. You can be thorough without being insane slow, there's nothing worse than having a tank in your group that seems to wait a minute between every encounter

 

Then again when it comes to tanking on the even far fewer situations when I've done some tanking I'm one of the fast ones, never seems to take long to check peoples health and energy/force levels.

 

Certain tank related abilities might be on cooldown, and the wait is for them to come off cooldown. There are still a few pulls in various FP's that can be a pain to manage and a good tank wants to have all of his weapons available when dealing with them.

 

If you think the tank is too slow, make one of your own and give it a go. No one should be complaining about tank speeds until they've tanked everything themselves.

[Zoom_VI]

I run two tanks, and my Shadow's ignore list is rather long, all dps.

 

If your ignore list is extremely long I'm pretty sure the only person that is being problematic is you.

[Pirana]

I'm not dissing the op when I say this in the slightest but the few times I've done some group finder flashpoints the tank has quite often been sooooooooooo slow it's insane. You can be thorough without being insane slow, there's nothing worse than having a tank in your group that seems to wait a minute between every encounter

 

Absolutely, it works both ways. I've run with similar tanks who seem to be waiting on cool downs, or alt/tabbing to a guide to make sure they pull correctly. After around fifteen to twenty seconds of standing there staring at the next mob, I'll type out something like. "on you <insert name>". Or I'll offer a suggestion on how to pull this one.

 

Certainly the onus doesn't always fall on the dps, but because there are so many that play them, they stand out more.

[Pirana]

If your ignore list is extremely long I'm pretty sure the only person that is being problematic is you.

 

I'm sure that's it. Very astute.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Certain tank related abilities might be on cooldown, and the wait is for them to come off cooldown. There are still a few pulls in various FP's that can be a pain to manage and a good tank wants to have all of his weapons available when dealing with them.

 

If you think the tank is too slow, make one of your own and give it a go. No one should be complaining about tank speeds until they've tanked everything themselves.

 

Only a pain if you're a terrible tank, you don't need all your cooldowns up every pull.

[Warrgames]

Only a pain if you're a terrible tank, you don't need all your cooldowns up every pull.

 

Depending on your healer. I've had a healer in 186 gear talking about how he was a grade a healer and I can pull mobs fast as I want. I died on the very next pull because he was typing to his guild and wasn't watching my health. In a pug group I want all my CD ready to go because you never know when one of them is going to see something shiny.

[Halinalle]

If you think the tank is too slow, make one of your own and give it a go. No one should be complaining about tank speeds until they've tanked everything themselves.

 

This.

 

It's not that difficult or at least they keep saying that. But for some reason they still avoid tanking.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Halinalle

[BuriDogshin]

it really is bad etiquette to pull for your tank. It's rude, it's a slap in their face, regardless of whether they're keeping up or going a bit slow. Even in an easy FP like a 50 or a Tactical, it's rude.

I disagree. Tactical FPs do not require or benefit from a tank -- the best tactical FP runs I have had were either 3D+H or 4D (especially Sorc DPS, who have great self-heals). I don't mind a tank in a FP (although I tend to Q my tanks for HM FPs, and not tacticals) but the tank needs to realize that they are holding back the rest of their team with their lack of DPS, while contributing little to nothing in terms of survivability.

 

HM50s also don't usually require a real tank if the group is overgeared, and they often are. A "fake tank" - a jug queued as a tank but in DPS gear, spec and stance, for example -- will do fine. I do not think you can get away with a fake heal quite as easily.

 

So, when I tank in tacticals (rare) and HM50s (sometimes), I understand my role. As a tank in those FPs, I am usually just a low-contributing DPS in the former and only a convenience in the latter, unless the rest of the group is undergeared. If the DPS or even the healer want to start a fight, odds are they can handle it, so no wipe, no foul. If they do wipe, then maybe they need to wait and let me start the fight, but that is rarely the case in tacticals.

[Kourage]

Games like this fail at teaching people not familiar with MMORPGs basics, like how aggro works. Some just don't care anyways. Mobs attack whoever initiates combat. Groups of mobs are linked together, meaning they all will attack the same person. Ideally this should be the tank. The tank mitigates damage the best and tanks usually gain the resource they need (Force, Heat or lack of) to use abilities from taking damage, which allows the tank to do more damage and gain even more resources. By taking the initial aggro away from a tank, you have set the tank back. If the healer has a heal over time on anyone, anything the damage dealer didn't damage will focus on the healer. Depending on how tough or large the pull is, now the tank and or healer may need to pop cool downs if available.

 

After a normal tank pull, eventually mobs will change their target based on who is aggravating them the most. Mobs that are scattered around the room and have not been damaged by anyone will go after the player healing. That is why damage dealers should be quickly killing the squishy non elites and allow the tank to take on the strongest mob that is not crowd controlled. You can kill that elite when the weak stuff is dead and no longer attacking the healer, which can slow down or interrupt the heals.

 

Also, generally people who are not experienced with these games do not visit these forums or any game guides. They learn everything about the game from general chat or whatever the game informs them of. Ultimately, many of those players will be cursed at and removed from group and may end up quitting the game. Why? Because for some reason MMO designers fail to teach their game mechanics to new people. Any single player game would have a tutorial and maybe even a way to practice something like tanking. You're going to have "noobs" in your group from time to time and you should politely try to explain basic mechanics to them that BioWare has failed to explain.

[Tomb-Stone]

In non-tactical flashpoints, if someone keeps pulling I will tell them, "You Pull it, You Tank It".