Gaff Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just wondering if ability bloat is finally being taken care of with this new talent tree shake-up. Most skills don't add depth to the combat, they're just something extra to click. Would be nice not to have 24+ keybinds. The MMO that this new talent tree is being copied from, we all know which one , has recently dealt with ability bloat. Perhaps we won't have to wait as long as that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) After reading, I know what you mean by "ability bloat." I agree that some skill seem to exist simply for the sake of having an icon to represent them. "Look, we added a new skill!" Edited October 17, 2014 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaff Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Indeed. A lot of the skills should be baked into the class/spec as Procs or as flat stat differences. We don't need an ability for it. The abilities that actually do something interesting should remain, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Never seemed like bloat to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Examples? Don't have a list. Also, much of it could be simply a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashforth Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just wondering if ability bloat is finally being taken care of with this new talent tree shake-up. Most skills don't add depth to the combat, they're just something extra to click. Would be nice not to have 24+ keybinds. The MMO that this new talent tree is being copied from, we all know which one , has recently dealt with ability bloat. Perhaps we won't have to wait as long as that? There is a fine line between reducing bloat and dumbing the game down. Sure, the amount of abilities is high but many specs only use a fraction of those within their rotation and another fraction used for specific situations. For the most part I don't see the issue unless you run several specs and need all the abilities bound at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 There is a fine line between reducing bloat and dumbing the game down This is a computer "adventure" game. If you want intellectual challenge, I suggest bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just wondering if ability bloat is finally being taken care of with this new talent tree shake-up. Most skills don't add depth to the combat, they're just something extra to click. Would be nice not to have 24+ keybinds. The MMO that this new talent tree is being copied from, we all know which one , has recently dealt with ability bloat. Perhaps we won't have to wait as long as that? I don't think the team has evolved to that point yet. They'll get there, but it takes them a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The MMO that this new talent tree is being copied from, we all know which one , has recently dealt with ability bloat. Perhaps we won't have to wait as long as that? They have already dealt with it. Most abilities they are adding will only be replacing another ability in the rotation 'cause it is better in every single way (Ligtning Strike and Lightning Bolt, Crushing Darkness and Demolish, Unload and Blazing Bolt, Railshot and Mag Shot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaff Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 It isn't dumbing the game down though. It's a situation of "less is more". If we had fewer abilities that worked differently due to procs or changes of a character's state it would be more interesting than having 30+ situational abilities that do nothing more than give some stat changes or some extra damage at the expense of an ability slot, a keybind and screen space. Just for the sake of fake depth. As for an example this is a screenshot from my UI on my Assassin. Haven't redone his talents since the patch (thus the couple of empty slots). Too much stuff: http://i.imgur.com/e9UtLqT.jpg A lot of that doesn't need to be there if certain things were baked into the class/spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Disciplines address this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllieAnne Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 With the free skills, I'm buying everything and then really working on a tight rotation. There are skill I thing would be useful that I am not using simply because I forget about them. Now that I've played with most ACs up to 55, I have a pretty good idea of what ones I won't use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Anyone who has played a sentinel or marauder doesn't need to ask what bloat? These 2 classes are an example unto themselves. If you need a concrete example, go over to Dulfy & check the class rotations/priorities. Couple this with the fact that F2P (& possibly preferred - I don't know as I'm a sub) don't even get a full compliment of talent bars in the UI without spending money & you can quickly understand the problem. The other classes are significantly less bloated with my caveat being I haven't played a juggernaut or guardian at high levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I don't see ability bloat and I play 14 different specs. I don't even use a full 3 action bars to play any of my characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 They have already dealt with it. Most abilities they are adding will only be replacing another ability in the rotation 'cause it is better in every single way (Ligtning Strike and Lightning Bolt, Crushing Darkness and Demolish, Unload and Blazing Bolt, Railshot and Mag Shot). Mag shot? I don't recall hearing that on the stream. And if they replace railshot I'll be sad. That's probably one of my favorite abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Anyone who has played a sentinel or marauder doesn't need to ask what bloat? These 2 classes are an example unto themselves. If you need a concrete example, go over to Dulfy & check the class rotations/priorities. Couple this with the fact that F2P (& possibly preferred - I don't know as I'm a sub) don't even get a full compliment of talent bars in the UI without spending money & you can quickly understand the problem. The other classes are significantly less bloated with my caveat being I haven't played a juggernaut or guardian at high levels. I dont remember for F2P but preferred get 4 bars. I've never used more than 3 on any of my toons and the 4th bar is just a bunch of random stuff not related to combat so none of it is keybound. The "closest" to ability bloat would be an annihilation marauder, and I wouldn't even call that bloated. This game is rather light on its abilities compared to other MMO's of similar design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I don't see ability bloat and I play 14 different specs. I don't even use a full 3 action bars to play any of my characters. Considering a full 3 action bars would be 36 abilities, that's not a ringing endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) 'Streamlining' is the last thing I want. I still regret the loss of earlier removed abilities. When the tried that in DA2, I loathed the result. If you don't like an ability, then take it off your toolbar, no need to ask that everyone have to. They're telegraphing procs in 3.0. If they remove abilities so that we don't even have to think about our rotation, I might as well take a nap and let the dog do most of my fighting for me. Edited October 17, 2014 by errant_knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Considering a full 3 action bars would be 36 abilities, that's not a ringing endorsement. You consider 36 different ability to much? How many abilities do you actually use? On my 36 slots I have med pack, stim, wz stim, wz medpack, huttball throw, speeder, regen, buff, QT, jetpack and than I have my abilities. Most of the abilities are situational. Edited October 17, 2014 by Warrgames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) You consider 36 different ability to much? FAR too many. But I see there's a clash of ideals in this thread. Some of you guys feel playing a piano is a fun thing to do in a video game or shows some level of 'skill' or 'ability'. I'm more in the line of what other recent MMOs do where the 'skill' is in packaging what it is you have available to you - not bringing along the entire toolbox and being able to memorize where the screwdriver is vs torque wrench. Disciplines actually is a step in the modern direction, but I have a feeling we still get too many base abilities in our class/AC for it to be that noticeable. We'll have to see. Edited October 17, 2014 by hadoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Not seeing the big deal. You can adjust your screen to have as few slots as you like, no one forces you to use abilities, so why does one person's preference for less have to affect everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 FAR too many. But I see there's a clash of ideals in this thread. Some of you guys feel playing a piano is a fun thing to do in a video game or shows some level of 'skill' or 'ability'. I'm more in the line of what other recent MMOs do where the 'skill' is in packaging what it is you have available to you - not bringing along the entire toolbox and being able to memorize where the screwdriver is vs torque wrench. Disciplines actually is a step in the modern direction, but I have a feeling we still get too many base abilities in our class/AC for it to be that noticeable. We'll have to see. Games where you just use 6-8 abilities is incredibly boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Not seeing the big deal. You can adjust your screen to have as few slots as you like, no one forces you to use abilities, so why does one person's preference for less have to affect everyone? That's a great idea. You can just prefer to suck at the game if you don't like using all the abilities. Good option, there. Particularly if you play in groups in an MMO. I'm sure that won't upset anyone at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Games where you just use 6-8 abilities is incredibly boring. OMG, this. Games that use 6-8 abilities where none are conditional except for cooldown are even more boring, and that's really saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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