CloudzDeven Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Because BW admitted they can't balance all of the variances you want. The combat team is obviously small and leaving the enormous amounts of possible hybrids was taking months to balance as the player base found them. This system makes it so they only have to test the utility abilities to ensure nothing is game-breaking. This was probably one of the deciding factors for them. They said in the stream that they never discovered hybrids and only balanced them once the playerbase let them know. Since we don't know what the other classes look like (unless I missed a stream) I didn't see that different of a healing/lightning build from what we were used to. While I imagine choice of taking extra endurance is gone I don't see why anyone would take it over other skills anyway. In practicality it's a removal of an option that never really mattered anyway in exchange for easier balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vornamen Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I agree, it takes some choice (terrible choices at that) away from the players, but something had to change as we move to level 60 and beyond. Yea ok, I know it's a lot of work, but I'll never like it. However, for swotor there's a lot more to the game so it doesn't hurt as much, but I very much like skill trees. And I don't agree that its something that had to change specifically into a skill band. I've seen other systems that work well too, but the selection every x-levels is VERY annoying, and makes leveling a chore instead of fun. Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vornamen Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 They decided that listening to you wasn't a good idea. Well they could stop listening to all the ideas and we can take our subscriptions elsewhere. Right? Your opinion of my opinion isn't what this community group is about. Go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vornamen Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 While I imagine choice of taking extra endurance is gone I don't see why anyone would take it over other skills anyway... In practicality it's a removal of an option that never really mattered anyway in exchange for easier balancing. I agree to a point. But what I've seen here and other MMOs is that, when this happens, say like for something less interesting like endurance vs. extra dps, there are options to make it a factor. In short you're saying the endurance boost isn't compelling enough to make it a factor. So to that, why not move the choice between dps/utility vs. endurance lower in the tree and boost it by 2-10x? Probably, somewhere between those it will be valuable to overpowered. Or just double it with a 1% / 5 seconds regen rate in and out of combat, etc. There's a lot you could do. Again, I never said balance it, I said make the rarely selected options compelling while make it more interesting. It's the bands per level that sucks IMO. Every time you ding your's just... a level higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashforth Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It's the bands per level that sucks IMO. Every time you ding your's just... a level higher. This is the ONLY concern I have for the new system. Each level wont feel like a level. However, there are a lot of skill on the current skill tree that aren't that great and are just fillers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 This is the ONLY concern I have for the new system. Each level wont feel like a level. However, there are a lot of skill on the current skill tree that aren't that great and are just fillers... The irony is, that's how I feel about the top third of the trees on some of the classes... one of the reasons I've gone hybrid on some characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It feels like they're taking away individuality. Hybrids have their place, as they will be overpowered in some areas, but will be lacking in others. Why does everyone need to be so much the same as the next? However, I will wait until I can experience this to pass final judgment. Maybe it really will be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Because BW admitted they can't balance all of the variances you want. The combat team is obviously small and leaving the enormous amounts of possible hybrids was taking months to balance as the player base found them. This system makes it so they only have to test the utility abilities to ensure nothing is game-breaking.Even if they had 100 people working on balance, it would still be 100 Devs trying to figure out what 1,000,000+ players might try...it was an impossible task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 This is the ONLY concern I have for the new system. Each level wont feel like a level. However, there are a lot of skill on the current skill tree that aren't that great and are just fillers... I disagree. I get the level up feeling from obtaining a new ability/skill, not from selecting which one I get. You will still progress through the old tree, you just won't have to decide if you're taking skill X in the bottom tier or skill Y first. You'll also still get the abilities you normally would along the way. So Guardian/Jugg will still get Saber Throw at level 36 or wherever they put it. You'll still power up, just not have to make decisions on where your points go until the utility levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I disagree. I get the level up feeling from obtaining a new ability/skill, not from selecting which one I get. You will still progress through the old tree, you just won't have to decide if you're taking skill X in the bottom tier or skill Y first. You'll also still get the abilities you normally would along the way. So Guardian/Jugg will still get Saber Throw at level 36 or wherever they put it. You'll still power up, just not have to make decisions on where your points go until the utility levels. You say "not have to make decisions", other say "not allowed to make decisions". For some people, those decisions are a core part of the fun of building up a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You say "not have to make decisions", other say "not allowed to make decisions". For some people, those decisions are a core part of the fun of building up a character. Then they will derive that decision making fun from utilities moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Then they will derive that decision making fun from utilities moving forward. Yay.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yay.. Yay indeed! No longer will a Commando have to choose gunnery in order to get Decoy where it is optimal for a fight. They can grab it as a healer or as assault spec. This does assume that Decoy will be made a utility... I certainly hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You say "not have to make decisions", other say "not allowed to make decisions". For some people, those decisions are a core part of the fun of building up a character. Taking away the extraneous skills in trees won't make the specs play differently. You are deluding yourself if you thought there were any choices. There was a best spec for each class and by making any other decision, you were actively hurting yourself. I don't see any harm in doing whatever you want with your spec, but when alternatives actually perform BETTER than they were expecting, it skews balance between everyone. Ultimately, making sure the game is balanced for all players assuming 99% are looking to maximize their output outweighs the desires of a few people to have their special snowflake hybrid build that underperforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 There was a best spec for each class and by making any other decision, you were actively hurting yourself. I question this statement. Many NiM raiders I respect say that there is a "best spec" for some boss fights, and a different "best spec" for other boss fights. Compare Nephra to Corruptor-0, for example. Hopefully the capability to adapt to each boss will be retained in Disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You are deluding yourself special snowflake Are you utterly incapable of making even trying to make your point without resorting to childish comments like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeo-finell Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I question this statement. Many NiM raiders I respect say that there is a "best spec" for some boss fights, and a different "best spec" for other boss fights. Compare Nephra to Corruptor-0, for example. Hopefully the capability to adapt to each boss will be retained in Disciplines. The best spec is the one you like playing the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The best spec is the one you like playing the most. So since I seem to respec my Sorcs nearly every day (Madness <-> Corruption), and enjoy them both, what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The best spec is the one you like playing the most. I like playing the spec that decreases the possibility of a wipe and increases the possibility of a win in either a warzone or killing an operations boss. I suspect many players would tend to agree with those sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I like playing the spec that decreases the possibility of a wipe and increases the possibility of a win in either a warzone or killing an operations boss. I suspect many players would tend to agree with those sentiments. Sure but those aren't always the same spec, in fact they rarely are even in the same tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I question this statement. Many NiM raiders I respect say that there is a "best spec" for some boss fights, and a different "best spec" for other boss fights. Compare Nephra to Corruptor-0, for example. Hopefully the capability to adapt to each boss will be retained in Disciplines. "Best spec" is different. If I'm a Mara, I'm not going to run Anni in a fight with a lot of downtime since I'll drop stacks. Carnage would be a much better choice. That type of thing won't change. But if you are running Carnage, you're taking the same skill points regardless of the fight. Now there may actually be more customization in this regard as the utilities MAY change based on the fight. It depends on how successful they are with implementing these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeo-finell Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I like playing the spec that decreases the possibility of a wipe and increases the possibility of a win in either a warzone or killing an operations boss. I suspect many players would tend to agree with those sentiments. And what has been proven so many times during the history of this game, those people don't know what they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Sure but those aren't always the same spec, in fact they rarely are even in the same tree. Absolutely agree. I switch between Gunnery and Assault on my Commando quite frequently. I'll even heal if that's what is needed for group composition. Hell, I've switched between specs mid-fight if the circumstances required it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 And what has been proven so many times during the history of this game, those people don't know what they like. I don't know what this statement is implying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Now there may actually be more customization in this regard as the utilities MAY change based on the fight. It depends on how successful they are with implementing these. That's my hope as well. Having to totally redo my trees to move two points from one talent to another was a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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