GSF Team Imbalances

[Korithras]

We need to have separate queues based on the number of upgrades a player's fighters have. Moreover, we need to implement a system to grade the upgrades more accurately to divide up players.

 

One of the biggest turnoffs I keep hearing new players to the game say, (as well as one of my own in terms of trying to play GSF on alts whose ships are either stock or barely above that) is how you cannot compete against players who have mastered ships with all their components fully upgraded. Skill levels aside, a player who has less crew options, less component options, less ships to choose from and less experience is nothing but fodder to be chewed up by gunships and bombers. That's no fun for anybody.

 

I know myself I get bored of having no challenge presented to me by a lack of skilled and/or geared pilots on an opposing team and would like to see matches of just players whose ships are mastered facing off one another. I think it's only fair and in the interest of GSF as a whole.

[Drakkolich]

We need to have separate queues based on the number of upgrades a player's fighters have. Moreover, we need to implement a system to grade the upgrades more accurately to divide up players.

 

One of the biggest turnoffs I keep hearing new players to the game say, (as well as one of my own in terms of trying to play GSF on alts whose ships are either stock or barely above that) is how you cannot compete against players who have mastered ships with all their components fully upgraded. Skill levels aside, a player who has less crew options, less component options, less ships to choose from and less experience is nothing but fodder to be chewed up by gunships and bombers. That's no fun for anybody.

 

I know myself I get bored of having no challenge presented to me by a lack of skilled and/or geared pilots on an opposing team and would like to see matches of just players whose ships are mastered facing off one another. I think it's only fair and in the interest of GSF as a whole.

 

We get it everyone wants better matchmaking, no one wants to mow down less experienced pilots all day. I myself play for those rare games where there are good pilots on the other side to fight against.

 

Even after all that though, I'd love to know what server you play on that has enough players to support these 2 q types though. You're basically saying that there has to be 2-3 games going on all the time just to be able to support at the bare minimum 2 q types. Not to mention most of the players don't have the skill you talk about for playing in the "ranked" or w/e other q type you wanna call it. So the wait time would be ludicrous to get a game going. So even if right now all they did was add an extra type of q, no one would play it because who wants to wait over an hour even if it might be a more equal match.

 

Now if we had a dedicated server for Gsf like a ranked only server that had all the ships unlocked and high skill players could go there for a challenge or even cross server q's to have a greater population to populate these extra q types then it might happen. As it stands there is just no point in even asking for an extra q type cause it can't happen.

[SammyGStatus]

We get it everyone wants better matchmaking, no one wants to mow down less experienced pilots all day. I myself play for those rare games where there are good pilots on the other side to fight against.

 

Even after all that though, I'd love to know what server you play on that has enough players to support these 2 q types though. You're basically saying that there has to be 2-3 games going on all the time just to be able to support at the bare minimum 2 q types. Not to mention most of the players don't have the skill you talk about for playing in the "ranked" or w/e other q type you wanna call it. So the wait time would be ludicrous to get a game going. So even if right now all they did was add an extra type of q, no one would play it because who wants to wait over an hour even if it might be a more equal match.

 

Now if we had a dedicated server for Gsf like a ranked only server that had all the ships unlocked and high skill players could go there for a challenge or even cross server q's to have a greater population to populate these extra q types then it might happen. As it stands there is just no point in even asking for an extra q type cause it can't happen.

 

+1 Dedicated Server, Ranked Queues, & Cross Server.

[SammuelSK]

We get it everyone wants better matchmaking, no one wants to mow down less experienced pilots all day. I myself play for those rare games where there are good pilots on the other side to fight against.

 

Even after all that though, I'd love to know what server you play on that has enough players to support these 2 q types though. You're basically saying that there has to be 2-3 games going on all the time just to be able to support at the bare minimum 2 q types. Not to mention most of the players don't have the skill you talk about for playing in the "ranked" or w/e other q type you wanna call it. So the wait time would be ludicrous to get a game going. So even if right now all they did was add an extra type of q, no one would play it because who wants to wait over an hour even if it might be a more equal match.

 

Now if we had a dedicated server for Gsf like a ranked only server that had all the ships unlocked and high skill players could go there for a challenge or even cross server q's to have a greater population to populate these extra q types then it might happen. As it stands there is just no point in even asking for an extra q type cause it can't happen.

 

Eh.. doesn't seem like you do. The point was that no server has the population to make queue times reasonable because the barrier of entry is way to high. At best, you have people who queue up for two matches ( or one) for the daily and don't bother beyond that.

 

The population isn't going to magically show up, unless you do something to make them want to show up... arguing that the system can't be fixed because there aren't enough players is missing the point as to why there aren't enough players.

[Asbetos]

Eh.. doesn't seem like you do. The point was that no server has the population to make queue times reasonable because the barrier of entry is way to high. At best, you have people who queue up for two matches ( or one) for the daily and don't bother beyond that.

 

The population isn't going to magically show up, unless you do something to make them want to show up... arguing that the system can't be fixed because there aren't enough players is missing the point as to why there aren't enough players.

 

The only real solution to that, as well as to check what kind of a job matchmaker is doing is *TAM TAM TA DAM* cross-server queues! And we'll be getting those with... Hmmm patch 6.66.

[Verain]

We need to have separate queues based on the number of upgrades a player's fighters have.

 

So the lazy little foodships get chain pops and the vets get to eat sand instead of play?

 

No thanks. Take your lumps and learn to play.

 

 

 

Moreover, we need to implement a system to grade the upgrades more accurately to divide up players.

 

Matchmaking exists and can't work right until we get cross server, which is not announced or on the radar officially.

 

One of the biggest turnoffs I keep hearing new players to the game say, (as well as one of my own in terms of trying to play GSF on alts whose ships are either stock or barely above that) is how you cannot compete against players who have mastered ships with all their components fully upgraded.

 

Of course a fresh player can't compete against a super experienced player. That doesn't mean that he should get endless playtime while the veteran doesn't. Screw that noise. If someone is mad cuz bad, they need to improve.

 

 

Skill levels aside

 

Stop. The game is all skill. "Skill levels aside" is like saying "having a monitor aside". No. Skill is all of it.

 

nothing but fodder to be chewed up by gunships and bombers. That's no fun for anybody.

I like the way you say "gunships and bombers" as if scouts aren't the number one chewer in the mastication game. You just brought it up because new players don't have bombers (and some don't have gunships, if they weren't subs). You are trying to make it sound like it's some horrible imbalance based on classes.

 

And it's fun for me, so, IMO, working as intended.

 

I know myself I get bored of having no challenge presented to me by a lack of skilled and/or geared pilots on an opposing team and would like to see matches of just players whose ships are mastered facing off one another.

 

Cool, and did you reroll to Bastion yet?

 

Or just propose that the devs, who have numerous data errors to fix and maps to program (none of which is on the radar, or planned) should instead be busy breaking the game such that the actual players can't get a match.

 

 

Super.

 

 

I think it's only fair and in the interest of GSF as a whole.

 

Fair is, the weak die to the strong until they get stronger. Not "good players can't get a match lewl, and the foodships get to **** around a satellite blowing kisses".

 

 

Eh.. doesn't seem like you do.

 

He does. Unlike you, he posts constantly, answers questions live on stream, organizes events, and has a great attitude. That can bring players in if they want to play.

 

The point was that no server has the population to make queue times reasonable because the barrier of entry is way to high.

 

My number one peeve is "GSF is dying because of X", where X is:

 

> Players better than me.

> Players with gear (really just the above, but said by someone who doesn't have a clue)

> Scouts

> Gunships

> Bombers

> Lack of X

> Too much Y

 

YOU DO NOT KNOW

 

GSF pops seem pretty constant to me and I've played every day (maybe missed like 3-5 days total?) since GSF launch. So I think the only reason we still have pops is because of gunships and bombers and a high skill cap game, and unless we get a purple/pink paint job no one will be playing GSF in 2017.

 

Prove me wrong?

 

 

You can't. It's just as insubstantial and arbitrary. All these players who claim to speak for everyone (or "the new players") are doing is just taking what they don't like, ascribing it to a vast group of invisible people, and claiming to be some Nubbie Class Hero.

[Ramalina]

Any sort of decent training experience would also lower the barrier to entry. PvE based or private duels against a mentoring player, either would work. That's even lower probability than cross-server, even though it's probably a lot easier to implement than cross server would be.

 

There's also the issue that aces on alts would be very common in the 'lowbie queue' if the ranked queue were slow to pop. The dividing line would also be tricky to set. Costs 135000 to 160000 requisition to master a ship with one build, but for most ships you can unlock most of the ship's potential with the first 40k or so of requisition, if you spend it in the right places. I suspect that a divided queue would be a massive disappointment to anyone that expected it to create a more new player friendly experience.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Ramalina

[TrinityLyre]

This seems likely to be fixed based on the recent content/balance/any development for GSF.

 

 

/sarcasm

 

[nyghtrunner]

I don't think a split queue would end up being a good idea, simply because of the populations. On JC, it's not uncommon to have 3 games going at once (usually it's 2, but 3 prime time happens pretty frequently), but I sometimes feel like that's about as high as servers get, and most aren't quite that healthy (don't know, don't fly most of the servers, just judging by forums).

 

And I hate to say it, but I do think that at present, the population for any individual server is too low to split people out by req (or anything, really). From my understanding, the matchmaker is supposed to already take that sort of thing into account, but the population isn't quite dense enough for it to truly work (I'm skeptical, myself, but that's what they've said...). Cross-server would simply have to be implemented for something like that, and even then, I would prefer a ranked/unranked split rather than a split based on req gathered for a toon.

 

I disagree with Verain that it's "all skill", but my disagreement is nitpicky, and only really shows up at what I consider higher levels of play between vets or aces. The components and upgrades definitely help, but time in the cockpit is undoubtedly king. It's simply not the same as putting lvl 15s against lvl 55s in ground PVP, where the lvl 55 has so many more abilities and such (including a full rotation). And it's true that you can ALMOST get a stock ship to its full potential with the first 30-40k, which doesn't really take that long.

 

Any sort of decent training experience would also lower the barrier to entry. PvE based or private duels against a mentoring player, either would work.

And something like this would be amazing.

Edited October 7, 2014 by nyghtrunner

[SammyGStatus]

I don't think a split queue would end up being a good idea, simply because of the populations. On JC, it's not uncommon to have 3 games going at once (usually it's 2, but 3 prime time happens pretty frequently), but I sometimes feel like that's about as high as servers get, and most aren't quite that healthy (don't know, don't fly most of the servers, just judging by forums).

 

And I hate to say it, but I do think that at present, the population for any individual server is too low to split people out by req (or anything, really). From my understanding, the matchmaker is supposed to already take that sort of thing into account, but the population isn't quite dense enough for it to truly work (I'm skeptical, myself, but that's what they've said...). Cross-server would simply have to be implemented for something like that, and even then, I would prefer a ranked/unranked split rather than a split based on req gathered for a toon.

 

I disagree with Verain that it's "all skill", but my disagreement is nitpicky, and only really shows up at what I consider higher levels of play between vets or aces. The components and upgrades definitely help, but time in the cockpit is undoubtedly king. It's simply not the same as putting lvl 15s against lvl 55s in ground PVP, where the lvl 55 has so many more abilities and such (including a full rotation). And it's true that you can ALMOST get a stock ship to its full potential with the first 30-40k, which doesn't really take that long.

 

 

And something like this would be amazing.

 

You played several games with me while I was on a stock ship, and only scrab had higher numbers than I. There is no gear on my ship, so why do you disagree that it's not all about skill? Also, PVE training / a better implementation of the tutorial would go a really long way, but balance IMO needs casual and ranked cross server - otherwise, one group gets alienated

[nyghtrunner]

You played several games with me while I was on a stock ship, and only scrab had higher numbers than I. There is no gear on my ship, so why do you disagree that it's not all about skill? Also, PVE training / a better implementation of the tutorial would go a really long way, but balance IMO needs casual and ranked cross server - otherwise, one group gets alienated

Because we beat you both the one game I played against you. And a lot of that was because you had stock ships. As I noted to you, I heard the LLs out of you, knew you were stock-ish, and went right at you. I don't say this to toot my own horn or anything, because I honestly feel that if you're both fully upgraded, there's no way we win that game. But I do think in that case, the upgrades make a difference.

 

That's why I said it's nitpicky, and only shows up at higher levels. Probably shouldn't have really said anything, because I certainly wasn't trying to take Verain to task. I just had the 1 match in mind.

 

Don't get me wrong, you guys were both dominating in stock ships the entire time I was flying with you, and I'm certainly not trying to say skill has nothing to do with it. But it's like the argument in the HS thread:

Imagine you're flying against yourself, and one of you is in a stock ship. The one with upgrades wins.

 

And I definitely know I have enough alts that are close to stock to know I'm massively annoyed when I can't blow up turrets quickly with BLCs.

 

*Edit - I'll also note it was kind of sick sitting back in those games and watching you guys go to work. I definitely got out the popcorn for those matches, because seeing that kind of production out of stocks was impressive.

Edited October 7, 2014 by nyghtrunner

[Ramalina]

You played several games with me while I was on a stock ship, and only scrab had higher numbers than I. There is no gear on my ship, so why do you disagree that it's not all about skill? Also, PVE training / a better implementation of the tutorial would go a really long way, but balance IMO needs casual and ranked cross server - otherwise, one group gets alienated

 

I have to say that at least for strikes, there's a world of difference between Ship_req < 30000 and Ship_req > 40000.

 

Not that you can't do decently without upgrades, but the ship imposes some substantial limits on what you can achieve in similar conditions compared to what a mastered ship can accomplish. Mostly in terms of offensive power.

 

I'm not entirely sure separate cross server queues are really needed. My guild has gone from 3 GSF players to 14. Conquest points is a part of it, but I think it's mostly social interaction. We started making more of an effort to mentor guild members and also tried to remember to always use teamspeak when flying with newer pilots. It makes a big difference in rate of participation and willingness to participate again, even for people who had consistently disastrous numbers on the scoreboard. I feel like better learning environment, especially one that allows mentoring, would be the most productive thing for GSF participation. A lot of the holdouts in the guild might be persuaded if they could get repeatedly shot down and learn from that in a friendly duel instead of a match where the mistakes "count".

 

I'd love the queue pop times and higher quality of play from cross server queues, but I'm not sure I believe that's really as important for recruitment as loot and learning environment are.

[SammyGStatus]

Because we beat you both the one game I played against you. And a lot of that was because you had stock ships. As I noted to you, I heard the LLs out of you, knew you were stock-ish, and went right at you. I don't say this to toot my own horn or anything, because I honestly feel that if you're both fully upgraded, there's no way we win that game. But I do think in that case, the upgrades make a difference.

 

That's why I said it's nitpicky, and only shows up at higher levels. Probably shouldn't have really said anything, because I certainly wasn't trying to take Verain to task. I just had the 1 match in mind.

 

Don't get me wrong, you guys were both dominating in stock ships the entire time I was flying with you, and I'm certainly not trying to say skill has nothing to do with it. But it's like the argument in the HS thread:

Imagine you're flying against yourself, and one of you is in a stock ship. The one with upgrades wins.

auickly with BLCs.

 

*Edit - I'll also note it was kind of sick sitting back in those games and watching you guys go to work. I definitely got out the popcorn for those matches, because seeing that kind of production out of stocks was impressive.

 

Definitely think that ace vs ace, gear plays a much larger role than novice vs novice (made a chart a while back showing the same thing for each scenario including an average player). Couldn't agree with you more there, but that's also only considering the individual and not the team facet of the game, which can more than make up for gear.

 

It's about the team chemistry, ship class versus opposition's ship class, gear, skill, ally composition, and online and real world distractions (there's probably even more things that factor in besides the error term). This is how balance is achieved, not beyond one measure.

 

I think you and I are saying the same thing - circumstance plays much bigger role, and gear hits the threshold of it's usefulness faster than skill does.

[DamascusAdontise]

So for those that think this whole group vs pug / geared vs newbies is new to the game world batten down your hatches.

 

This rigmarole has gone on in MANY games,. Just one example is MWO, players screamed for a solo and group separate queue. For the longest time they played around with group restrictions and limitations (only 4 per team, teams larger than 4 get split up sometimes to different teams, weight / class limitations) none of this worked so they eventually did implement a solo / group separate queue.

 

Take a wild guess what happened......*Jeopardy Music Plays* BZZZZZZT! Group queue took literally hours to get pops and thus no one used it. Groups found ways to scam the system to allow their full preforms to play and eventually the rules got more and more stringent until 2 things happened.

 

Thing 1) Most of the veteran players quit the game

 

Thing 2) Group play with all the crazy restrictions was no longer appealing to most people and thus fell flat on its face

 

Result: Even though those people got what they wanted it literally almost killed the game by driving away their veteran player base in lieu of new players or potential players. You might think that community robbed of its veterans might have more balanced games.... BZZZZT! Wrong, match quality went from poor to TERRIBAD as swathes of clueless new players face humped each other into oblivion.

 

Most of the people that clamored for the split queues ended up leaving the game for a variety of other reasons and turnover remains high to this day.

 

So take from this what you will, there are so many stories just like this where developers chose to alienate their veteran players base in lieu of new players and they always end poorly for the game.

 

Simply put or TLDR if you will: There really isn't enough people even interested in GSF to support a split queue on most servers. Even if you try to deny this or say that the player base is due to bad matches and that if there were split queues hundreds of people would magically appear that would still require BW to take a chance and by doing so spit in the face of literally every GSF lover currently paying a sub.

 

That being said the magic fix for GSF for it to suddenly become appealing to everyone?: Better tutorial, cross server queues, more integration through rewards (IE fleet comms or something better) - this covers it all new players, better matches, and a reason to play beyond a few matches. I doubt this will happen but its the answer for all of it.

 

*Note* In MWO even in its slow days there can be 60-100 games going at any given time, and the main argument there was that the player base was too small to support the split. if thats the case there then what does it say about a server of a few thousand players with 1-2 games going.

Edited October 8, 2014 by DamascusAdontise

[nyghtrunner]

but that's also only considering the individual and not the team facet of the game, which can more than make up for gear.

Very, very true. The best teams are absolutely the ones that fly together a lot, know each other's mannerisms/styles, etc. And when taken into account as a collective, the gear matters less with each person you add to the mix. I haven't flown a lot with VIOP, and not much for a long time, but that's another thing that can make a big difference. Knowing each other's styles is helpful, but it's really nice to be able to call out for help or warning quickly.

 

Verain seemed to be looking at it from the perspective of the individual, though, or I assumed he was, and he was pretty definitive. But it is absolutely not only about gear, and I never meant to imply otherwise. At the higher ends, gear does make a difference, but it is small by comparison to skill.

 

gear hits the threshold of it's usefulness faster than skill does.

I absolutely agree here. I've been flying a long time, and I still see things out there I'd never thought about, or didn't think you could do. I like to think I'm good, but some days it feels like I still have a lot to learn, which is why I think I'm still playing the same 5 maps over and over and over.

[Pietrastor]

Skill is deffo important but upgrades DO make a huge difference. On my Rep scout I storm and cap the satellite before anyone from opposing team even gets there, on my Imp scout I start coughing halfway thorugh

[nyghtrunner]

Skill is deffo important but upgrades DO make a huge difference. On my Rep scout I storm and cap the satellite before anyone from opposing team even gets there, on my Imp scout I start coughing halfway thorugh

Sorry, wasn't trying to start this argument back up...

 

Upgrades make a difference, but a good pilot is still a good pilot, regardless of the condition of his ship or it's upgrades. There's an entire thread buried somewhere in here on the topic of people in stock ships performing well. The upgrades give edges that are situationally important, but overall skill (awareness, reflexes, ability to quickly read the HUD for all relevant info, etc) is undoubtedly the more important factor, and it's not a close comparison.

 

Edit - And this is way off topic. Sorry for that as well, OP.

Edited October 8, 2014 by nyghtrunner

[Korithras]

@Verain: Yes I point out bombers and gunships because they require half the skill it takes to be a killing machine in a scout. Strike fighters are just a joke but scouts you at least need to chase down and kill your target. Bombers just hide in the nooks and crannies of sats, poop mines/drones and let the computer controlling those do all the work for them. Gunships are the inverse of the problem because they just snipe you and unless you know your stuff, once they're on you you're going down unless you can evade them or get on top of them in a hurry.

 

They are the source of more than half of all the woes facing GSF because in domination if a bomber or gunship gets on your sat you have to drop whatever you're doing and kill them first otherwise you're screwed. I have NEVER in playing GSF seen a scout cause that same kind of a reaction when attacking a satellite.

 

So please, don't sit there and suggest that they aren't a problem or that everything else you picked apart when quoting myself and others and putting in so much spacing between lines (for whatever stupid reason) that you take up half a page with your own post. GSF is in trouble, I love it, but it's not going to survive with the way it's set up. It needs serious attention and serious overhauling to make it worthwhile for players to enjoy, otherwise it's just going to rot.

[Asbetos]

@Verain: Yes I point out bombers and gunships because they require half the skill it takes to be a killing machine in a scout.

 

Against newbs/noobs yes. Try to just "sit and snipe" on a gunship against any kind of scout that understands the basics of the game and you'll end up dead in max 15 sec from when he notices you. Try to do it against a skilled scout and you're dead in 5sec from when you come close.

 

Strike fighters are just a joke but scouts you at least need to chase down and kill your target. Bombers just hide in the nooks and crannies of sats, poop mines/drones and let the computer controlling those do all the work for them.

 

Sure, and then you get a random strike fighter with HLCs that parks up 6.5K away and picks off everything the bomber drops and the bomber himself.

 

They are the source of more than half of all the woes facing GSF because in domination if a bomber or gunship gets on your sat you have to drop whatever you're doing and kill them first otherwise you're screwed.

 

Yes, and that's the way it's supposed to be. It's a scouts job to neutralize gunships more than anything else.

 

I have NEVER in playing GSF seen a scout cause that same kind of a reaction when attacking a satellite.

 

Go play against Scrab or someone of his (or close to) skill level.

 

GSF is in trouble, I love it, but it's not going to survive with the way it's set up. It needs serious attention and serious overhauling to make it worthwhile for players to enjoy, otherwise it's just going to rot.

 

L2P or go play some zombie rush game. This is not a brainless "kill everything you see" kind of game, this is a tactical game where every ship type has it's own role to play and to win you have to use your brains.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Asbetos

[Verain]

@Verain: Yes I point out bombers and gunships because they require half the skill it takes to be a killing machine in a scout.

 

I don't think anyone is gonna agree with you on gunships there. Bombers have a high skill floor, but they are definitely not any kind of "killing machine".

 

Strike fighters are just a joke but scouts you at least need to chase down and kill your target.

 

Good thing the scouts have the best engines, the cheapest boost, the best burst, the best dps, the best secondary weapons, the tightest turns, and the best shields then.

 

Like Drako said: the forum is full of people who come in and say:

 

"Strikes are for terrible players because they suck, bombers are cheese, gunships are cheese. Hey, check out my cool flashfire I picked as my avatar!"

 

No. Stop it. At every skill level, a scout is a threat relative to other players of that skill level. At no skill level does a bomber just mop up damage without heavy enemy cooperation. The game has four classes, you can't say one sucks, two are too powerful, and one (the one YOU play, I'm sure) is fine. That's absurd.

 

Bombers just hide in the nooks and crannies of sats, poop mines/drones and let the computer controlling those do all the work for them.

 

This says more about your play style than it does about bombers.

 

Gunships are the inverse of the problem because they just snipe you and unless you know your stuff, once they're on you you're going down unless you can evade them or get on top of them in a hurry.

 

Or you can be on them. Again, gunships don't just get to ambush for free just because they have triple your range.

 

I have NEVER in playing GSF seen a scout cause that same kind of a reaction when attacking a satellite.

 

And I have NEVER in playing GSF seen a bomber disintegrate an enemy ship in less than two seconds, but scouts do it all the time. Perhaps a bomber on a satellite is supposed to be useful, given that they aren't very useful OFF the satellite. In fact, perhaps thinking that a scout should be anywhere close to a bomber on a satellite is the absolute height of arrogance. IMO scouts should be even weaker on satellites, there should be more aoe, and they should feel vulnerable and afraid of bombers in their extraordinarily limited niche.

 

So please, don't sit there and suggest that they aren't a problem or that everything else you picked apart when quoting myself and others and putting in so much spacing between lines (for whatever stupid reason)

 

Readability and separating areas. And no, they aren't a problem. Slug railgun could possibly use a small nerf to burst damage, but this would have to go hand in hand with a reduction on the real issue of instant death, scout burst. You'd want to adjust both downward in the same patch, because even though scouts are the bigger problem, we would DEFINITELY not want a gunship dominated meta. They are probably already too strong in lost shipyards TDM.

 

 

GSF is in trouble, I love it, but it's not going to survive with the way it's set up. It needs serious attention and serious overhauling to make it worthwhile for players to enjoy, otherwise it's just going to rot.

 

"Make my changes or the game will dieeeeeee"

 

 

 

Right, whatever. Those changes just happen to all be "nerf the other guy". If you came in here begging for strike buffs, I might take you seriously. But no, instead it's:

 

Strikes are weak. Ignore them, ship for bads because bads play weak ships because they don't know they are weak.

Gunships are strong. Nerf them, ship for bads because bads need strong ships to play and I wouldn't die to them if they didn't have that advantage because I'm good and they are bad.

Bombers are strong. Nerf them, ship for bads because they launch fully deterministic things that then kill me because I run into them.

 

CONSISTENCY ERROR //// PARSE TERMINATES

Edited October 9, 2014 by Verain

[AlrikFassbauer]

Result: Even though those people got what they wanted it literally almost killed the game by driving away their veteran player base in lieu of new players or potential players. You might think that community robbed of its veterans might have more balanced games.... BZZZZT! Wrong, match quality went from poor to TERRIBAD as swathes of clueless new players face humped each other into oblivion.

 

Most of the people that clamored for the split queues ended up leaving the game for a variety of other reasons and turnover remains high to this day.

 

TV Tropes cals this phenomenon "Pandering To The Base" : http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PanderingToTheBase

 

A quote from there :

 

So, just give the fans exactly what they want and everything will work out. Simple, huh?

 

Not quite. Generally speaking, the more intensely devoted fans in a fandom are usually outnumbered by the casual fans, but the more devoted a fan becomes, the more active (and louder) they become in the fandom. So while a few million casual fans might enjoy an episode without ever making it widely known, a handful of devoted and occasionally unhinged fans are screaming on a web forum about how the show is now Ruined FOREVER, which can be seen and heard by everyone... including the people making the show. The producers may then start pandering to these voices exclusively, believing them to be the voice of everyone watching (which they will often claim to be) — but "everyone" in this case may in fact consist only of a handful of people, and what this minority wants and what the other, less noisy fans want can differ drastically.

 

This presents a major problem. The property can end up becoming a private club, accessible only to a select few. Excluding the casual fans means they'll simply drift away to find something else to spend their time on, and raising the entry bar too high means you run the risk of locking out new fans who may have possibly been interested in the property, but now find it too difficult to access. While the vocal minority might now be satisfied (and you can't even count on that), they rarely translate to enough ratings and / or sales to justify the property's continued existence — and to make matters worse, even this hardcore minority may begin to drift away for numerous reasons (changing tastes, burnout, lessened interest, etc). This results in diminishing returns ending in eventual cancellation if unchecked.

 

[...]

 

Compare Vocal Minority, which usually is the bases being pandered to. Sometimes the base in question is the Lowest Common Denominator. Can result in The Chris Carter Effect, Better on DVD, Continuity Lock-Out, Continuity ****. Compare/contrast Running the Asylum, which is sometimes the writers pandering to the fans, and sometimes pandering to themselves. Can also result to fans screaming Ruined Forever as well as an Unpleasable Fanbase. When the pandering actually does work, it's And the Fandom Rejoiced.

 

Besides, in my opinion, inbalances in GSF mostly stem from

 

- other group having much better equipped ships

- other team being muchg better at PvP in general (more agile, faster mouse movement, faster hand movement, more PvP training ...)

- better mice & keyboards (with additional buttons, for example) ...

Edited October 9, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Magira]

Bombers just hide in the nooks and crannies of sats, poop mines/drones and let the computer controlling those do all the work for them.

 

OMG. So you fly the bomber? A sitting Bomber is a dead bomber. My first update always go in terms of increasing the mobility, then come the laser. Why: Because a minelayer is an attack specialist. Most medals for satellite conquest I do with the bomber. With Heavies and thicker shell, the three satellite guns are done quickly.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Magira

[Ryuku-sama]

OMG. So you fly the bomber? A sitting Bomber is a dead bomber. My first update always go in terms of increasing the mobility, then come the laser. Why: Because a minelayer is an attack specialist. Most medals for satellite conquest I do with the bomber. With Heavies and thicker shell, the three satellite guns are done quickly.

 

Charged Plating and solo capping a sat against 2 strike and 3 bombers FTW!!!!!!! I love these kind of 3-cap.

[ALaggyGrunt]

A bomber in a crack is somewhere between annoying and really hard to get rid of, and you have to get rid of it to get the sat..

 

It's annoying if there's not a lot of cover nearby.

It's essentially impossible to get rid of if it has cover from both terrain and wingmen, because you essentially have to be as much of a sitting duck as they are.. You have to get rid of mines and drones first, because your guns will hit the drones and mines before they hit the bomber. If it's a dronelayer which has been there for a while, you have 2 drones, the repair probe, and 3 seeker mines. They usually park in the crack toward their side of the field, so you are the first thing their teammates see when responding to a call for help.

[Ryuku-sama]

A bomber in a crack is somewhere between annoying and really hard to get rid of, and you have to get rid of it to get the sat..

 

It's annoying if there's not a lot of cover nearby.

It's essentially impossible to get rid of if it has cover from both terrain and wingmen, because you essentially have to be as much of a sitting duck as they are.. You have to get rid of mines and drones first, because your guns will hit the drones and mines before they hit the bomber. If it's a dronelayer which has been there for a while, you have 2 drones, the repair probe, and 3 seeker mines. They usually park in the crack toward their side of the field, so you are the first thing their teammates see when responding to a call for help.

 

Or just get a) another bomber with Charged Plating b) a Charged Plated strike c) a burst scout with BLC (to counter CP) d) a gunships sniping from max range.