Developer Update: Introduction to Disciplines

[Bluestone]

The way the article read to me makes it sound like you have to commit to a single discipline at a time, which has potential to suck for me because I primarily solo and take bits from every current tree to make that a smoother experience.

 

I hope I read it wrong or it gets clarified in a way that clears up my worry, or even that the new system takes into account a soloers need to be diverse to survive.

[Vaportek]

This is a stupid idea. The same thing happened in World of Warcraft, it ruined it. You people at Bioware just want to make it easier for the stupid people that don't read tool tips and complain about how "hard" this very easy to play game is. Balancing a tree after increasing a level cap is what should happen anyway. Stop making excuses because you're lazy.

[DLZeon]

This is exactly why so many people left WoW in the first place. It kills customization. Many players have Hybrid spec classes on here. To make it so we can only choose one spec and stick with it is pure bs. It kills the flexibility you were looking to fix. You need to fix your mistake fast because once this launches you will see a HUGE DROP in players. If it's not done right it shouldn't be done at all, and WoW totally failed in that aspect. If you follow their path to try and get their players to join your game you will lose all of your players that joined because it was not like WoW. You really started pushing it with F2P and the Cartel Market but this crap will kill your playerbase.

[SilverWF]

Did you not read their reasons for the change?

I'm not roleplayer, so I can only laught at your robot-style. Seriosly, mate, this is very serious thread, be mature, damn.

 

Reasons? Did you read "Why?" section? If not, here is:

With Disciplines, we can focus on creating strong and fun play styles from level 10 on

About gameplay from level 10 I've posted already. there is NO fun in empty planets, and doesn't matter what skill-system you have.

without having to worry about how people are spending 50 skill points and whether some people are making bad decisions or if others are finding crazy untested combinations that vastly exceed what we want to happen

They only want to remove our rights to choose and only give us very fixed "chooses" depends on tree. Sort of weapon leveling in the Starfighter: part of it pretty linear, plus some chooses "1 from 2 variants".

significant problem expanding the Skill Trees for level cap increases: development time. Each of the Skill Trees were balanced based on an assumption of points and how players must spend their points to get what they need to perform in combat. When we add more points (as well as more skills themselves) to the trees during a level cap increase, all of that balance is thrown off kilter and must be reset for every Advanced Class

Wut? So in Disciplines they wouldn't need to add more skills in straight lines and no add more utility points or what? How it's relevant?

This results in a massive amount of time spent every level cap increase simply redoing and rebalancing the Skill Trees over and over, preventing us from spending time actually doing cool new things

So, they are only rebalancing skills over last year?

That kind of rebalancing, what was made with Opers in 1 month after release: nerfed Jagged Strike: Hidden Strike stun from 4 to 1,5 sec long. 1,5 sec - this is GCD! You don't need to have some modern skill system to understand that. And to do this changes you need to have lack of brain.

[Anyakaschala]

the only challenge that I can think of is that regardless of how you slice it, there are points to be spent and as thus, there will be a min/max to be had in terms of ops and in terms of pvp. :Thus, the basic things are still the same, it just seems to be a different form of skill tree.

 

I will say this about old school skill tress though, is that people looked forward to the new skills that progression and level caps brought to their class. I do hope there are new talents and skills coming to each class.

[Grue_Hunter]

Today, we bring to you Disciplines, a major overhaul to the class system that will be coming live with Game Update 3.0!

 

Read More

 

Read through it. Cautiously optimistic (reminds me of what I have seen elsewhere but "seems cleaner"). Still pessimistic about what the game is doing with PvP players and content though.

[MisterBlackJack]

So a few questions that come to mind right away:

 

1. I see a lot of people saying this will "kill hybrids". I'm confused as to how this is true. The implication I took from the "Utility" section of the new system is that bits and pieces from all 3 skill trees will be put into this new Utility general category. Doesn't that mean players will have the choice now to pick and choose what they liked best from the 3 tiers?

 

2. Probably related to the "hybrid killing" question: since we can only have one discipline "tree" (not sure what it will be called now) in use at a time, how is this different from "locking" points to a single tree we have now? I.e., spending a point in a tree then locks you to that tree until you reset.

 

3. I take the inference from the blog that there is more freedom from this new system, but from the description I still envision that to be an "effective" Watchman Sentinel, e.g., everyone who goes that route will still, more or less, have the same point allocation. Is it not the case that there will still be a single, "optimum" route that maximizes dps in, say, endgame vs. levelling vs. pvp?

 

4. Ultimately it feels like the main purpose of this new feature is to let people continue to spend points without having to re-balance on the dev side. It was exactly what they did with the Paragon system in Diablo 3 and I'm sure similar systems in other games. For the sake of conversation and comparison, let's say level cap increases never happened again and thereby no new skill points could be gained. I would call this an apples-to-apples comparison by removing evolution from the equation and asking: how does the new discipline benefit players, veteran and newcomers alike, over the current 3-tier skill tree system? Or is this really it: the new system by-and-large simply removes the development burden of rebalancing with level cap increases, and like the tree system we have now, there will still be concensus-agreed single routes for certain roles in certain areas of gameplay, full stop.

 

The reason it kills hybrids because core role abilities are now locked to said role. For example as a balance sage you no longer can pick up telekinetic wave as an ability to use as its locked to telekinetic discipline path. Meaning you will have to fully spec in the core abilities bit have option with utility abilities like force costs

[Nyhm]

thinking is hard

 

I'm not going to lie. The skill trees were confusing to me, figuring out rotations and mini buffs by what I was choosing. Im a mix of a hardcore and casual player- i like to be able to jump right in and have a great time. I tried reading blogs and fan sites about the right builds and maximizing my character so that I could jump in and play. But it wasnt working. Some people are hardcore players, and some are not. I think this is a good balance for all.

 

I was here during early access and launch, and subscribed for a while. then left for a good while and now im back. And really liking all the updates to the game.

 

#subscribed

[DarqueSoulle]

Well this just shows you that no one can come up with a single original idea anymore, gotta rip off anther game to compete with them.

[easindahouse]

When World of Warcraft did the same thing, I quit playing. I enjoy tweaking a point here or there to maximize my play style. Now, there will be even less class diversity. Very upsetting.

[igotwatuneed]

Hopefully It will be not another WoW, personally I quite like the current tree sets

[Bachannal]

I just want to know what impact this will have on my armor/mods, etc. Clearly we customize our toons for specific classes/trees, so if all of that is being wiped, then where does that leave the gear we already have? Does this mean we're going to have to re-armor and re-mod all of our gear? At level 55, that's an obscenely expensive prospect. As it is if you just need to pull armor and re-add it, you're talking an average of $11K to remove the armor (on 9 pieces of gear), which is about 100K just for the removal...then purchasing the armor pieces (if you are not crafting your own) at an average of about 60 - 80k per single item mod, and then the mods, enhancements, and augments as well? We're talking potentially *millions* of creds to get your toon back in optimum fighting shape.

 

I'm all for a new system if it's intuitive, but I definitely fear having to re-gear all my toons to handle this new change. Am I the only one that has this worry? lol

[Trollokdamus]

When World of Warcraft did the same thing, I quit playing. I enjoy tweaking a point here or there to maximize my play style. Now, there will be even less class diversity. Very upsetting.

Okay, previously you were able to tweak a point here or there. Now, however, you have 3 tiers of utility abilities, 7 abilities in each tier, and you can choose 3 out of 7 from each. Yeah, sure, much less class diversity. What's your problem again?

 

This is a stupid idea. The same thing happened in World of Warcraft, it ruined it.

Yeah sure, WoW is a completely ruined game atm

 

This is exactly why so many people left WoW in the first place.

Did you speak to each and every WoW subscriber who left the game? I guess not. How then can you possibly know why did people leave?

[Icebergy]

When World of Warcraft did the same thing, I quit playing. I enjoy tweaking a point here or there to maximize my play style. Now, there will be even less class diversity. Very upsetting.

 

WoW making this exact change was also a contributing factor in my decision to quit that game.

[ron_harmeling]

I just want to know what impact this will have on my armor/mods, etc. Clearly we customize our toons for specific classes/trees, so if all of that is being wiped, then where does that leave the gear we already have? Does this mean we're going to have to re-armor and re-mod all of our gear? At level 55, that's an obscenely expensive prospect. As it is if you just need to pull armor and re-add it, you're talking an average of $11K to remove the armor (on 9 pieces of gear), which is about 100K just for the removal...then purchasing the armor pieces (if you are not crafting your own) at an average of about 60 - 80k per single item mod, and then the mods, enhancements, and augments as well? We're talking potentially *millions* of creds to get your toon back in optimum fighting shape.

 

I'm all for a new system if it's intuitive, but I definitely fear having to re-gear all my toons to handle this new change. Am I the only one that has this worry? lol

 

Level 60 mate. You'll have to up your existing gear to the new standard ANYWAY. If level cap goes up, be sure a new gear tier is added as well.

 

On top, they noticed a new tier of craftable gear, so I imagine the crew skill cap will be upped to 500.

 

Is this good or bad ? Will this kill hybrid builds ?

I can't give a founded opinion up to the moment I can put my hands on it. So I wait to form my opinion after I can wrap my mind around it.

BUT : It is ridiculous to call it shyte from the git-go just because another MMO botched their remodeling up. Will it be botched here ? Maybe, but can't tell for now.

 

AND : To switch the class / discipline, please add a save template function like asked, makes my life as a tank only so mucch easier ...

[Bachannal]

Yea, after I posted that, I considered the new level caps will affect that, but I guess I'm just thinking about the in between periods. I still haven't even capped all my 55's at 180 gear, most are wearing some 180, some 168, etc. - so I'm just wondering more if it will mean respeccing the mods and such that go in the gear. Currently, I know exactly what armor/mods/enhancements/augs I need to put in my stuff - the question is more-so, will that change drastically?

 

Level 60 mate. You'll have to up your existing gear to the new standard ANYWAY. If level cap goes up, be sure a new gear tier is added as well.

 

On top, they noticed a new tier of craftable gear, so I imagine the crew skill cap will be upped to 500.

 

Is this good or bad ? Will this kill hybrid builds ?

I can't give a founded opinion up to the moment I can put my hands on it. So I wait to form my opinion after I can wrap my mind around it.

BUT : It is ridiculous to call it shyte from the git-go just because another MMO botched their remodeling up. Will it be botched here ? Maybe, but can't tell for now.

 

AND : To switch the class / discipline, please add a save template function like asked, makes my life as a tank only so mucch easier ...

[Gwena]

Hmm, I have no experience with this sort of system in any other game, so I am really ambivalent about this.

 

I always spend enough points to get to the top of my chosen tree, but I tend to prioritize convenience in solo play when spending any "extra" skill points. I get things low in other trees like stealth improvements for my Scoundrel healer and bubble improvements on my Sage healer. If I can still do the equivalent of that with the new system, I'll be happy.

[pquadro]

Can't wait to see in how many ways this will break PvP

 

 

Oh im suffering

[Dawgofrick]

Wow, so people with a bunch of low level toons get a bonus, while the people that have already leveled all their toons get absolutely nothing. Wow, thanks for really giving us dedicated and loyal customers some benefits. Oh yay, we get to level all our toons a whopping 5 levels, and trash all the gear we've worked the last year on. Yay. Thanks for nothing.

[BoneBender]

"strengthened the identity of each class path"

I can't help seeing this more as "we've removed more customization from your characters" but maybe that's just the old DAoC, Shadowbane, SWG player in me. I won't nay-say it until I see it in practice but...

[PaulBud]

When Will we see Dual-spec? OR even better Triple-spec

[Kaljoda]

As a hybrid Skill tree player, I can't see this ending well for me.

 

The most likely outcome is that I will cancel my subscription if my playstyle is no longer viable.

[Petvin]

This is trashtalking mate. Sure, after this system will came to Live you will didn't know what spec have your opponent. Not because of verslity, but because "Time for testing everything"

After this there will be the same "few viable specs" and nothing else.

 

Imagine about my skill-trees?

Sure I can imagine my Deception Sin with Conspirator's Cloak, Disjunction, Energize and Harnessed Darkness perks from tanking tree And Creeping terror skill from Madness. And this will be new omg-imba (in addition to 2nd tree Sins already is)

But will it be good for game? For PVP? Sure, not...

 

Are you as dumb as a sack of stones? The spec defining skills and and abilites will be spec bound. Read Before You Whine

[_TACAN_]

You're killing the hybrids and making us all cookie cutter players. How is this a good thing? Eliminating our choice of whether we put our point in 1 tree or one of the other 2 isn't giving us more choices, it's taking them away. All for the sake of you saving money on development??? Come on! And don't you say that you're making the abilities available in each discipline sooner because it's still just one discipline that we can use. You're saying that people are more powerful because they put in the effort to figure out how to become powerful and you think that's a BAD THING??? Hey Jimmy we know you are a better player than Bob, and that you put in a buttload of time to figure everything out but we're going to change he rules so that everything is balanced between you... ?

 

Is that fair????

[Jorgee]

"strengthened the identity of each class path"

I can't help seeing this more as "we've removed more customization from your characters" but maybe that's just the old DAoC, Shadowbane, SWG player in me. I won't nay-say it until I see it in practice but...

 

Ha ha, I have to admit that SWG was the first thing that came to my mind as well and how I hope this will not be the same deal here. Still, I guess you're right, we'll just have to wait and see.