Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[Sendrel]

No surprise at all there.

 

It was wrong at the time and its wrong now - but you go girl!

 

Driz

 

Righton Sister!!

 

Driz

[ImperialSun]

What does Driz mean

 

It means I haven't found the time to make a sig.

 

Didn't you know?

 

Driz

[ferroz]

If there's a lack of tanks now, there will be a lack of tanks with dual spec. If someone wants to play DPS, they'll play DPS.

Not really true. If people can dual spec, espeically if the cost is reasonable enough to do it at a fairly low level, then they are MUCH more likely to give tanking a try as they level up. People that give tanking (or healing) a try as they are leveling are much more likely to try it once they hit the level cap; likewise, people that don't try tanking (or healing) as they level are much more likely to just stick with doing dps.

 

So there will clearly be less of a lack of tanks with dual spec; that doesn't mean the problem will definitely go away, but it will be less.

[Deffin]

Not really true. If people can dual spec, espeically if the cost is reasonable enough to do it at a fairly low level, then they are MUCH more likely to give tanking a try as they level up. People that give tanking (or healing) a try as they are leveling are much more likely to try it once they hit the level cap; likewise, people that don't try tanking (or healing) as they level are much more likely to just stick with doing dps.

 

So there will clearly be less of a lack of tanks with dual spec; that doesn't mean the problem will definitely go away, but it will be less.

 

I heard dual-spec helped with the LFD in WoW. Oh **** nope, still waiting 30 minutes for a tank.

[ferroz]

Fallacy.

 

The same word that can be used to sum up all of your reasons for saying dual spec is a must have. lol.

 

Driz

you keep using that word. I do no think it means what you think it means....

[Basiliscus]

I heard dual-spec helped with the LFD in WoW. Oh **** nope, still waiting 30 minutes for a tank.

 

better than an hour. I was lucky to get one dungeon run in a night in BC, as a healer.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Basiliscus

[ferroz]

I heard dual-spec helped with the LFD in WoW. Oh **** nope, still waiting 30 minutes for a tank.

really? It doesn't take me that long. Are you doing normal heroics or the new ones? or are you just parroting times from a year ago with no actual experience in the game...

 

I've easily spent longer than 30 minutes looking for a tank in games without dual spec.

 

I know I went weeks at a time in wow without running dungeons due to lack of groups, especially at low level. Now, thanks to Dual spec and lfd it's part of my preferred leveling path in that game... so it looks like it made a big impact

Edited December 29, 2011 by ferroz

[ImperialSun]

you keep using that word. I do no think it means what you think it means....

 

I think the dictionary disagrees with you:

 

"a deceptive, misleading, or false notion, belief"

 

"That the world is flat was at one time a popular fallacy. "

 

Exactly the same can be said of almost every reason that anyone has come up with for dual speccing being a must have for this games success.

 

Like "Dual Spec is a must have otherwise it will take ages to find a healer" is a common fallacy.

 

Driz

[RollingDeep]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.....

 

This debate is really about casual gaming vs a more hardcore approach. Unfortunatly for the people who share a more hardcorish approach to the game there are simply more people who prefer a more casual approach playing. That's because it is easier. So from a business approach it makes sense to include something casual friendly (I.e. duel specs) because it is something that is wanted by a larger audience.

 

I am not saying one is better than the other they are both valid styles of play and philosophy.

 

For people wondering how it hurts the game or other people: by allowing duel speccing it seems to me it goes against the design choices bioware made this game with. Having choices that are definitive is kinda what they wanted. They also wanted us to roll other characters to experience those stories. Duel speccing eliminates the need for me to do that because now one character has two rolls.

 

"But wait, respecing already allows that so duel speccing should be in"

 

Exactly it's already in you just have to pay for it. You just don't want to pay for it. Again....a casual approach. Have everything for nothing.

 

Bigger question for me is if we start here why not be able to change ACs? I can use every reason for duel speccing for AC changes. Yes I realize this is a slippery slope argument yet it is a valid argument. Explain to me why duel speccing is ok and AC change is not?

 

My hope with how they implement duel speccing (since it's been kinda confirmed) is that it involves the legacy system. But I say this while seeing nothing wrong with not having duel spec in at all.

 

Tldr: more casuals than hardcore people play games. G2 cater to them for $$$

[Basiliscus]

Bigger question for me is if we start here why not be able to change ACs? I can use every reason for duel speccing for AC changes. Yes I realize this is a slippery slope argument yet it is a valid argument. Explain to me why duel speccing is ok and AC change is not?

 

My hope with how they implement duel speccing (since it's been kinda confirmed) is that it involves the legacy system. But I say this while seeing nothing wrong with not having duel spec in at all.

 

Tldr: more casuals than hardcore people play games. G2 cater to them for $$$

 

well they certainly could do AC respecs, they were toying with the idea at one point. It would be a pain to regear, especially for a sage going shadow (single to double saber), but more so a guardian > Sentinel or vise verse there is a whole armor class difference there. Troopers wouldnt have so much problems (maybe getting a rifle/cannon) or agents, so class fairness wise it would be completely unbalanced. Not to mention the aditional cost of training the other ACs abilities

 

id be personally against it, since something about changing your core class bothers me, but there isnt a logical fact based argument against it if we allow dual specs

Edited December 29, 2011 by Basiliscus

[RollingDeep]

Exactly, there won't be. And for me that's a bad thing.

 

Just because you have the choice and option to do something doesn't mean you should do it.

 

Sometimes it's best not to let something happen not because in itself it's wrong but because it leads to bad things. if duel speccing is allowed in a very easy manner then what's to stop people from demanding(which is what people are doing for duel spec now) AC changes.

 

Granted it's entirely my opinion that AC changing is bad. But I have a feeling that's biowares standpoint too. I may be wrong....but I doubt it.

 

Again this is a slippery slope argument, but what's to stop this from happening?

[Truga]

Exactly, there won't be. And for me that's a bad thing.

 

Just because you have the choice and option to do something doesn't mean you should do it.

 

Sometimes it's best not to let something happen not because in itself it's wrong but because it leads to bad things. if duel speccing is allowed in a very easy manner then what's to stop people from demanding(which is what people are doing for duel spec now) AC changes.

 

Granted it's entirely my opinion that AC changing is bad. But I have a feeling that's biowares standpoint too. I may be wrong....but I doubt it.

 

Again this is a slippery slope argument, but what's to stop this from happening?

 

Slippery slope arguments are silly. It has been stated numerous times that AC are actually classes, they just have the first 10 levels identical. Many MMOs did this before, and I personally like this kind of "job transfer" system. There's no way bioware is going to allow changing classes.

[Mazikeen]

Exactly, there won't be. And for me that's a bad thing.

 

Just because you have the choice and option to do something doesn't mean you should do it.

 

Sometimes it's best not to let something happen not because in itself it's wrong but because it leads to bad things. if duel speccing is allowed in a very easy manner then what's to stop people from demanding(which is what people are doing for duel spec now) AC changes.

 

Granted it's entirely my opinion that AC changing is bad. But I have a feeling that's biowares standpoint too. I may be wrong....but I doubt it.

 

Again this is a slippery slope argument, but what's to stop this from happening?

 

Because BioWare has flat-out said that they want to add dual-speccing

Because BioWare has flat-out said that they will not add AC respeccing

Issue has been discussed and decisions have been reached on this already

[ratfanatic]

I'm rolling a healer. Currently level 34. I've not had these problems questing that you seem to have.

[Xezkaiel]

For one very important reason, it would solve the looking for healer problem.

 

1. Specing heals isn't enough of a boost to healing to justify it as your only spec.

 

2. You tend to spend 90% of the game soloing missions, and having only a heal spec slows the game down quite a bit.

 

3. Constantly respecing isn't really a viable option long term for many reasons.

 

This game really could benefit from dual spec.

 

I basically agree with the OP. Dual speccing within ur AC is just convenient...not easy mode. Most of you ppl who are against dual speccing probably just LOVE your ONE job (and ur prob a bunch of dps...) I mainly tank. I tank on my BH, SW, AND Trooper. While I love it, have fun with it, enjoy the responsibility and find groups easy....I do occasionally like the ability to swap to a dps spec and dish out some hurt. Simply paying for respec would be fine if it were routinely affordable but it isnt. Bring dual spec in soon please so the players who work hard at healing or tanking can have their breaks XD

 

Edit* I do realize a major downside to dual spec is dps switching to healing or tanking JUST to get in groups and they are probably TERRIBLE. This is unfortunate, but I still believe dual spec needs in soon

Edited December 29, 2011 by Xezkaiel

[Truga]

I'm rolling a healer. Currently level 34. I've not had these problems questing that you seem to have.

 

It's been pointed out (in this thread too) numerous times that leveling as a healer is probably the fastest way of doing it, yet people still whine about how they can't level as a healer and will play DPS because respec is expensive. Go figure.

 

I do feel for tanks though, they often don't get a healer companion until late in the game, which kinda sucks.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Truga

[Varghjerta]

Because BioWare has flat-out said that they want to add dual-speccing

Because BioWare has flat-out said that they will not add AC respeccing

Issue has been discussed and decisions have been reached on this already

 

 

 

'From Stephen Reid

 

Q: do you think that alternative specs will be allowed at some stage in the future? Also, legacy system, any further insight you are willing to share with us at this point in time?

 

Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure.

 

But they have not yet deceided about if the game will actually have Dual specc as of yet

Edited December 29, 2011 by Varghjerta

[ImperialSun]

Because BioWare has flat-out said that they want to add dual-speccing

Because BioWare has flat-out said that they will not add AC respeccing

Issue has been discussed and decisions have been reached on this already

 

Orly?

 

Which statement are you referring to, the original one thats gets linked very often or the one from today that says:

 

"Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure. Legacy System... will be cool? :)"

 

If anything, that suggests its no where near decided or nowhere near being implemented.

 

Driz

[HailSithis]

I'm starting to get annoyed with some of the people arguing on the side of "Dual Spec is Bad", who keep using fallacies in their arguments. Particularly the somewhat ridiculous over use of Slippery Slope.

 

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html

 

Allowing dual spec will not somehow lead to implementation of dual AC, or dual class, everything becoming free, and then eventually a big red "I Win" button that insta-changes your character to level 50 and kills all world bosses. That's using a logical fallacy to make an argument, and it's... stupid. Stop doing it please.

[Absolvus]

For one very important reason, it would solve the looking for healer problem.

 

2. You tend to spend 90% of the game soloing missions, and having only a heal spec slows the game down quite a bit.

 

Not true really, I can quest fine with pure healing spec (currently lvl 45 sage) and Qyzen as companion. Normal mob packs you can just aoe down and it sure isn't slow. Elites might take bit longer to kill than dps spec but you don't really have any downtime ever.

 

I kinda would like to see dual spec too but I don't really see pressing need for it as a healer myself.

[Godsfear]

Orly?

 

Which statement are you referring to, the original one thats gets linked very often or the one from today that says:

 

"Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure. Legacy System... will be cool? :)"

 

If anything, that suggests its no where near decided or nowhere near being implemented.

 

Driz

 

The they should also be prepared to bleed a lot of subs. But according to most of the fanbois they're alright with that.

 

This game is going to lose half it's subs within 3 months if BW doesn't get some quality of life changes in the game ASAP.

 

I've been through enough launches to know when a game is in trouble. The forums are only going to get worse as more people hit endgame and realize how buggy and unfinished this game really is.

 

But, like I said, if the fanbois don't mind the game shrinking to RIFT like numbers then there is not problem at all for them.

 

Personally I would just as soon wait for GW2 than "hope" for dual speccing longer than 2 months tops.

[Endalaus]

I'm for it.

 

If fights are creative, unique and challenging like we all would hope they would be, then your group of 8/ 16 guildies that are running that content are going to hit a wall. Sniper may not be the best option for situations, maybe due to fight mechanics. Maybe there's a fight in which I need as much AOE as I can pump out at once. Okay. I'm now Engineering rather than MM.

 

Fights will not require same exact setup 100% of the time. And I'd hope that holds true or there is a serious lack of development and creativity on the designers part.

 

Also, for those saying not to do it because you're pro at your one spec and others that have dual are only half as good as you or some ****, just wow. Are you saying you're incapable of learning how to be good at more than 1 thing? Seriously? It is possible to be good at OP medic and be good at OP dps. Maybe, my guild just holds a higher standard as far as knowing your whole class inside and out. That means knowing all the specs, how to use them, and when to use them when needed.

 

Maybe instead of calling it "dual - Spec " something more creative and justifiable will work.

 

"Situational Combat Adaptation Retrofit" or some ****.

 

Also, as far as AC respecing is concerned, I am completely against it. That is what would severely take away from the game. Gear setups would then come into play and now not only would you have people rolling for not only their companions loot, but SM would be rolling on SJ heavy armor etc. Yea, not good. It would also introduce more FoTM situations.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Endalaus

[SlickDevlan]

The they should also be prepared to bleed a lot of subs. But according to most of the fanbois they're alright with that.

 

This game is going to lose half it's subs within 3 months if BW doesn't get some quality of life changes in the game ASAP.

 

I've been through enough launches to know when a game is in trouble. The forums are only going to get worse as more people hit endgame and realize how buggy and unfinished this game really is.

 

But, like I said, if the fanbois don't mind the game shrinking to RIFT like numbers then there is not problem at all for them.

 

Personally I would just as soon wait for GW2 than "hope" for dual speccing longer than 2 months tops.

 

Its hilarious the number of people quitting over so many trivial things.

 

P.S. Its not a "quality of life" issue, its part of the game design.

[ImperialSun]

I'm starting to get annoyed with some of the people arguing on the side of "Dual Spec is Bad", who keep using fallacies in their arguments. Particularly the somewhat ridiculous over use of Slippery Slope.

 

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html

 

Allowing dual spec will not somehow lead to implementation of dual AC, or dual class, everything becoming free, and then eventually a big red "I Win" button that insta-changes your character to level 50 and kills all world bosses. That's using a logical fallacy to make an argument, and it's... stupid. Stop doing it please.

 

A bit like saying Dual Spec is definitely required so that people can find a healer?

 

Like you said, logical fallacy is stupid.

 

Driz

[ImperialSun]

The they should also be prepared to bleed a lot of subs. But according to most of the fanbois they're alright with that.

 

This game is going to lose half it's subs within 3 months if BW doesn't get some quality of life changes in the game ASAP.

 

I've been through enough launches to know when a game is in trouble. The forums are only going to get worse as more people hit endgame and realize how buggy and unfinished this game really is.

 

But, like I said, if the fanbois don't mind the game shrinking to RIFT like numbers then there is not problem at all for them.

 

Personally I would just as soon wait for GW2 than "hope" for dual speccing longer than 2 months tops.

 

You would quit the game over dual speccing being implemented or not?

 

err ok

 

Each to their own...never good to hear anyone quit a game I'm active in but to be honest no company can combat the "do this now or I quit" brigade.

 

Have fun in your next game because I dont envisage dual speccing being implemented within your gratious 8 week timeframe, if at all

 

Driz

Edited December 29, 2011 by ImperialSun