3.0 information today?? PLEASE!!!!!!!!

[AlienEyeTX]

"First, I want to apologize for the last minute nature of getting you the information on the delay."

 

Let me be honest with this, there isn't any possible reason for me to do it in last minute if you actually care about people who are playing your game and supporting you from the release date. You just have show us that you or your PR department are absolutely don't care about us. I can't think of even one possible reason why you weren't able to go to the forum and post 5 simple word's "Sorry, the announcement will be delayed". This isn't something super hard or super long time to to this. It takes 5 min of your working time but you still didn't do this. 5 damn minutes... and now you are trying to pretend that you care about your subscribers. Be honest if someone would do the same to you would you believe him?

 

I will be honest with you. You are not doing your work! And when people don't do their work they are fired. So if you wan't us to believe that you are really care about this game and people who are playing it please find courage to tell us that you've made mistake and will go away from your position. I'm sure you can find job in another department and please let people who can take 5 min of their time to make announcement in time on forum work instead of you. It was nice to interact with you on forum but you've lost all the trust from us by this time. Thank you for your work but you should go. Please be honest with us and yourself.

 

As a matter of fact, they DID come out and say that the announcement would be delayed. You are wrong. You need to pay attention. You need to not judge others' work when you don't know a thing about it.

[Alssaran]

There's a right way to announce and a wrong way to announce.

 

Yes, there is. But the right way is certainly not annoucing the reveal on the forum three weeks ago, then going back on the announcement with some half-hearted excuse.

 

You don't need to know what pre-order bonuses will be given to announce the expansions name. You don't need to know what subs will get to summarize the story or tease it. And you certainly don't need to know if there will be a new type of content in it (for example Pazaak) to actually release screenshots of the planet you plan to take the addon to.

 

There is certainly a right way and a wrong way to announce. And there is no reason NOT to reveal some small details in the forum. You can also reveal them on the Community stream. You don't need to completely announce everything to reveal something.

 

We are not freaking out. We are making a point. A rather serious point. My point is this: I am working in software development. Only small scale software I will admit as a part timer. However, if I'd have this level of communication with the customers I have, I'd be fired in an instant. Even if the programm has a few bugs and some features are possible to change in the future, the customer wants updates. He wants to know the state of affairs, wants some samples of the software. The customer wants to give his own input into the process and to be involved. Not necessarily in the coding process, but in the design. He wants to know what is happening, what he will get for his money. What Bioware is doing doesn't even come close to that.

 

We're not involved into the process right now. We are told to sit down and wait while some details are already set in stone. If I'd tell my customer to "wait a few weeks because some features aren't 100% yet." only two months from the actual release, I'd get my a** kicked through the whole office. And, like it or not, one of the people posting before this has a point. There is no gain in simply taking everything Bioware does, calling everyone else a "hater" or "impatient person who flaps around his arms running in circles" and defending it.

 

This, from a PR perspective, was a bad move. It has nothing to do with hating or "overreacting" to apply criticism to this action. I have the utmost respect for the dedication people like Infernixx have to this forum. I see them posting regularly, even when attending vocational school and my part time job. However, there is no reason to defend anything this time. To call this in any way a smart move.

 

I'm not saying that they can't delay anything. I'd be as happy as the next person to have the addon delayed to 2015 for it to become better. I even had to delay 1-2 of my own programms and get the blame from the customer for it to work. I couldn't release them in their initial stage because it would've put the company into a bad light. But I need to communicate this to the customer. And I need a very good reason to do so. Saying : "We aren't 100% sure about things." 2 months before a supposed release is not a valid reason. Espescially not when there can be a staggered announcement process.

 

That also brings us back to your initial comment. There are many ways to announce something right. There are also many ways to announce something wrong. Telling the community they will have the announcement in three weeks, then backing down from it during the last second because "things aren't 100% right now." is not one of those good reasons.

 

You don't need to know the pre-order stuff to make an announcement in a short trailer. You don't need the subscriber details for a 1 minute long video with some scenes of the new planet and a few lines of text. Those must be done by now, otherwise there will no release in 2014. If those things aren't done by now and are 100%, then it won't come out in 2014. Then come out and tell us. Don't delay and delay and then don't deliver.

 

At this point people would be happy even about a forum post. I don't need a flashy website for it. A short trailer, a forum post or a few minutes on the Community stream is all it takes. Not everyone here demands a full announcement of all the features. But something is better than nothing. If you can't deliver everything, that's alright. But not giving away something with such a reason, that's bullsh*t.

 

Stop saying things like: "Well, you wouldn't even be satisfied with a forum post!" or "People wouldn't even accept a forum post about it. An announcement must be big and planned!", because that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. At least the first part. People would have at least some information to go on. Something to look forward to. Ocassional bits of information do wonders to a hype. You know why people are so upset? Because, once again, they feel left out. People think that "Bioware is sitting there, delaying things at random. They are propably not working!". I don't share that notion. But except Eric, I don't see anyone doing a job right now. I don't blame the delay on Eric, I think he is awesome for sticking with us. But the people responsible for developing the announcement should be criticised. The people who had a deadline, and couldn't make something out of it.

 

As for the planning: That's where you are right. There must be a plan. And there was. End of September. And they didn't stick to it.

 

I don't need to calm down, I am not mad. Not in the way I would be when I am in a fight. I am disappointed in their PR policy, only because I care about the game. I don't care in the way some suggest ("Dude, you should step a few steps back."). And people like you and Infernixx aren't helping with that. Praise is due where it is due, but critics are also part of that formula. This time there must be some constructive criticism, not meaningless defense.

[AlienEyeTX]

Yes, there is. But the right way is certainly not annoucing the reveal on the forum three weeks ago, then going back on the announcement with some half-hearted excuse.

 

You don't need to know what pre-order bonuses will be given to announce the expansions name. You don't need to know what subs will get to summarize the story or tease it. And you certainly don't need to know if there will be a new type of content in it (for example Pazaak) to actually release screenshots of the planet you plan to take the addon to.

 

There is certainly a right way and a wrong way to announce. And there is no reason NOT to reveal some small details in the forum. You can also reveal them on the Community stream. You don't need to completely announce everything to reveal something.

 

We are not freaking out. We are making a point. A rather serious point. My point is this: I am working in software development. Only small scale software I will admit as a part timer. However, if I'd have this level of communication with the customers I have, I'd be fired in an instant. Even if the programm has a few bugs and some features are possible to change in the future, the customer wants updates. He wants to know the state of affairs, wants some samples of the software. The customer wants to give his own input into the process and to be involved. Not necessarily in the coding process, but in the design. He wants to know what is happening, what he will get for his money. What Bioware is doing doesn't even come close to that.

 

We're not involved into the process right now. We are told to sit down and wait while some details are already set in stone. If I'd tell my customer to "wait a few weeks because some features aren't 100% yet." only two months from the actual release, I'd get my a** kicked through the whole office. And, like it or not, one of the people posting before this has a point. There is no gain in simply taking everything Bioware does, calling everyone else a "hater" or "impatient person who flaps around his arms running in circles" and defending it.

 

This, from a PR perspective, was a bad move. It has nothing to do with hating or "overreacting" to apply criticism to this action. I have the utmost respect for the dedication people like Infernixx have to this forum. I see them posting regularly, even when attending vocational school and my part time job. However, there is no reason to defend anything this time. To call this in any way a smart move.

 

I'm not saying that they can't delay anything. I'd be as happy as the next person to have the addon delayed to 2015 for it to become better. I even had to delay 1-2 of my own programms and get the blame from the customer for it to work. I couldn't release them in their initial stage because it would've put the company into a bad light. But I need to communicate this to the customer. And I need a very good reason to do so. Saying : "We aren't 100% sure about things." 2 months before a supposed release is not a valid reason. Espescially not when there can be a staggered announcement process.

 

That also brings us back to your initial comment. There are many ways to announce something right. There are also many ways to announce something wrong. Telling the community they will have the announcement in three weeks, then backing down from it during the last second because "things aren't 100% right now." is not one of those good reasons.

 

You don't need to know the pre-order stuff to make an announcement in a short trailer. You don't need the subscriber details for a 1 minute long video with some scenes of the new planet and a few lines of text. Those must be done by now, otherwise there will no release in 2014. If those things aren't done by now and are 100%, then it won't come out in 2014. Then come out and tell us. Don't delay and delay and then don't deliver.

 

At this point people would be happy even about a forum post. I don't need a flashy website for it. A short trailer, a forum post or a few minutes on the Community stream is all it takes. Not everyone here demands a full announcement of all the features. But something is better than nothing. If you can't deliver everything, that's alright. But not giving away something with such a reason, that's bullsh*t.

 

Stop saying things like: "Well, you wouldn't even be satisfied with a forum post!" or "People wouldn't even accept a forum post about it. An announcement must be big and planned!", because that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. At least the first part. People would have at least some information to go on. Something to look forward to. Ocassional bits of information do wonders to a hype. You know why people are so upset? Because, once again, they feel left out. People think that "Bioware is sitting there, delaying things at random. They are propably not working!". I don't share that notion. But except Eric, I don't see anyone doing a job right now. I don't blame the delay on Eric, I think he is awesome for sticking with us. But the people responsible for developing the announcement should be criticised. The people who had a deadline, and couldn't make something out of it.

 

As for the planning: That's where you are right. There must be a plan. And there was. End of September. And they didn't stick to it.

 

I don't need to calm down, I am not mad. Not in the way I would be when I am in a fight. I am disappointed in their PR policy, only because I care about the game. I don't care in the way some suggest ("Dude, you should step a few steps back."). And people like you and Infernixx aren't helping with that. Praise is due where it is due, but critics are also part of that formula. This time there must be some constructive criticism, not meaningless defense

.

 

You don't seem to understand how marketing works. I'll just leave it at that.

[Alssaran]

You don't seem to understand how marketing works. I'll just leave it at that.

 

This just proves my point. I take the time to explain what is my (and supposedly some other peoples) problem, give you first hand experience, and this is all you can respond to that?

 

What you are doing is meaningless and ignorant defense. There is no merrit in that. I know perfectly fine how marketing works. But speaking about "marketing" without releasing information two months prior to such a big event, that's not marketing. You are, as I mentioned above, defending for the sake of...nothing. Not everything Bioware does is a "smart marketing move". Not everything others write about something you don't agree with is: "It is obvious you don't get the concept of XYZ.". Those are standart responses for the actions I have described above. The community is applying critics to the way things are handled right now. And that is perfectly fine.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Alssaran

[Orizuru]

Well this is new and exciting. I wish someone would fix the darn popcorn machine in the lobby though.

[darthscotty]

My big problem with all of this is the apparent lack of communication and people skills that exist at bioware. They had to suspected if not friday then yesterday by noon that they would not be ready to make an announcement. All they had to do was post sometime yesterday that something unexpected had come up causing a temporary delay of a week or two, problem solved. Instead they say nothing causing people to react badly and then try to do damage control after the fact. Any reasonable person with some people skills could have headed this off well before it became an issue. This seems to happen over and over with Bioware, you would think they would learn how to communicate better. Instead even yesterday they were hinting that something would be released today about 3.0, better communication and people skills would help alot instead of constantly trying to fix things AFTER the fact. That more than anything is my issue. If something happens to cause a delay that is fine things happen we all understand that. Go back and look at Taits post where he gave the link for the patch notes, clearly not everybody at Bioware is on the same page, that is unexcusable. A simple, we may not be able to give info on 3.0 tomorrow we will keep you updated would have been fine. Instead they say nothing until somebody calls them on it.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Who wants to make bets that it's actually mutated Kephess behind Revan's mask?

[AlienEyeTX]

This just proves my point. I take the time to explain what is my (and supposedly some other peoples) problem, give you first hand experience, and this is all you can respond to that?

 

What you are doing is meaningless and ignorant defense. There is no merrit in that. I know perfectly fine how marketing works. But speaking about "marketing" without releasing information two months prior to such a big event, that's not marketing. You are, as I mentioned above, defending for the sake of...nothing. Not everything Bioware does is a "smart marketing move". Not everything others write about something you don't agree with is: "It is obvious you don't get the concept of XYZ.". Those are standart responses for the actions I have described above. The community is applying critics to the way things are handled right now. And that is perfectly fine.

 

No, I just don't feel like typing so much. I'm busy at work. Marketing.

[Alssaran]

No, I just don't feel like typing so much. I'm busy at work. Marketing.

 

Yes, sure. Convienent to work there right now, isn't it? I'm sure you work at coding when it comes to clipping issues, graphic and 3d design when it comes to texture issues and you work in retail when it comes to shipping issues. I have five part time jobs aswell.

 

Anyway, it will be fun seeing people stepping in against the masses. Give me some popcorn!

[Orizuru]

Is anyone else having trouble navigating the forums without running into the Maintenance page? Sorry to hijack this thread to ask, but I'm unable to get to a list of threads under any topic headings. I'm only able to link directly to the most recently active thread, which was this one.

[AlienEyeTX]

Yes, sure. Convienent to work there right now, isn't it? I'm sure you work at coding when it comes to clipping issues, graphic and 3d design when it comes to texture issues and you work in retail when it comes to shipping issues. I have five part time jobs aswell.

 

Anyway, it will be fun seeing people stepping in against the masses. Give me some popcorn!

 

Don't be like that. I've stated here many times what I do for a living.

 

And I'm not saying that this has played out well for BW. Just that it's not that big of a deal, it happens lots of places, and for various reasons. Eric's post said enough... lots of moving parts to what seems on the outside like a "simple announcement."

 

No such thing as "simple" in the business today.

 

***edit*** I'll also add this. The marketing and PR people are at the mercy of many others in the business. We may think everything will be ready to announce at a certain time because that's the feedback we get from others. If another team doesn't deliver, marketing will not be able to move forward with their plan. In the world of software, a lot of things can go wrong and cause a delay. I'm happy that they hold back until everything is in order. Imagine if they moved forward to announce a feature and then that feature was not able to be included. They'd be slaughtered over it! By holding back now, they are doing the smart thing and ensuring that bad information is not released.

 

Yes, it sucks, but it's the right move if everything is not in place. Internet folk just need to R-E-L-A-X.

Edited September 30, 2014 by AlienEyeTX

[Andryah]

Have to say... the faux indignation by some here, in classic demanding MMO player role play, is hilarious.

 

They stepped in, and clarified that they are delaying further information (at no impact to planned release date) for a bit.... and stay tuned. Sure.. we all want more info, but a short delay is in no way impacting your current game play whatsoever.

 

And, no.. this is not some silly conspiracy on their part. If they are like any other major corporation (and they are) they do not announce formal information UNTIL it is fully vetted by all parties inside Bioware and EA. And in my personal experience.. these sorts of delays are most often simply because the marketing chimps are still finalizing the messaging (vs a moving target of development features planned by the devs) OR (more likely) the legal chimps have not finished word-smithing the final text and blessing it for public release. In my experience, 9 out of 10 times it's a delay in legal review (and the mind boggling and unneeded word smithing that corporate lawyers thrive on doing).

 

In any event. It's not like they said sorry.. we changed our mind.. there will be no 3.0 release EVAR. But reading the small number of players that are thrashing up the forum right now with demands/complaints/threats... you would think that is exactly what they said to us yesterday.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Andryah

[Lt-Snake]

You need to catch a grip. It's a delay in an announcement. It's not worth losing your mind over.

 

and you need to stop defending bioware every time they fail to deliver on something.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Lt-Snake

[Orizuru]

and you need to stop defending bioware every time they fail to deliver on something, ever since you got that signature you head has gotten super huge..

 

Why? Is it against the forums rules?

[Jadescythe]

Have to say... the faux indignation by some here, in classic demanding MMO player role play, is hilarious.

 

They stepped in, and clarified that they are delaying further information (at no impact to planned release date) for a bit.... and stay tuned. Sure.. we all want more info, but a short delay is in no way impacting your current game play whatsoever.

 

And, no.. this is not some silly conspiracy on their part. If they are like any other major corporation (and they are) they do not announce formal information UNTIL it is fully vetted by all parties inside Bioware and EA. And in my personal experience.. these sorts of delays are most often simply because the marketing chimps are still finalizing the messaging (vs a moving target of development features planned by the devs) OR (more likely) the legal chimps have not finished word-smithing the final text and blessing it for public release. In my experience, 9 out of 10 times it's a delay in legal review (and the mind boggling and unneeded word smithing that corporate lawyers thrive on doing).

 

In any event. It's not like they said sorry.. we changed our mind.. there will be no 3.0 release EVAR. But reading the small number of players that are thrashing up the forum right now with demands/complaints/threats... you would think that is exactly what they said to us yesterday.

 

A company with a history of missing targeted updates tells you that they can't even meet their own deadline of announcing what will be coming in 3 months or less and you believe that they will be on time with the actual content release? And on top of that, I'm expected to believe that between the end of the day on Friday and Monday morning they realized it was going to be a couple of weeks before they would have the announcement ready? I would have to be the dumbest person alive to believe these things. A few days I could understand, but potentially a few weeks is horrible. I couldn't imagine what would happen to me if I was a few weeks late in delivering information to a client.

 

There are some people who seem overly mad about this (making multiple, unnecessary, hateful posts), but as a paying customer, you can't really just roll with BW completely missing the mark on expectations that they set for themselves. Neither one of the extremes is correct. The apology and reasoning given really isn't good enough and they should probably be more up front about possible delays to the actual patch. They need at least a month of hype/marketing before it hits PTS and a month on PTS followed by 2 weeks or so to fix the final bugs before release. That puts us at mid Dec if they announced today.

[AlienEyeTX]

A company with a history of missing targeted updates tells you that they can't even meet their own deadline of announcing what will be coming in 3 months or less and you believe that they will be on time with the actual content release? And on top of that, I'm expected to believe that between the end of the day on Friday and Monday morning they realized it was going to be a couple of weeks before they would have the announcement ready? I would have to be the dumbest person alive to believe these things. A few days I could understand, but potentially a few weeks is horrible. I couldn't imagine what would happen to me if I was a few weeks late in delivering information to a client.

 

There are some people who seem overly mad about this (making multiple, unnecessary, hateful posts), but as a paying customer, you can't really just roll with BW completely missing the mark on expectations that they set for themselves. Neither one of the extremes is correct. The apology and reasoning given really isn't good enough and they should probably be more up front about possible delays to the actual patch. They need at least a month of hype/marketing before it hits PTS and a month on PTS followed by 2 weeks or so to fix the final bugs before release. That puts us at mid Dec if they announced today.

 

Or, like RotHC, it may not even hit the PTS. Honestly, I'd be ok with that so things aren't spoiled. Plus, the PTS has proven to be fairly useless (not totally, but fairly) in terms of testing/debugging.

[AshenK]

Know what? Want things to change? Vote with your wallet.

 

For years I've watched as we've let BioWare walk all over us thanks in part to us just handing them money whenever they want and for me today? No more, I just ended my sub and unless I see some type of change from BioWare? I will not sub to this or any other EA title anymore. We've tried making it clear why we are unhappy on the forums and get ignored. We've tried making it clear on MMORPG.com, Reddit, and other sites and we get ignored. So time to vote with our wallet as I'm unhappy with how this game is.

 

We've seen no new raids, no new flashpoints outside tacticals, content dumb down more and more, the only updates I've seen are for cartel market stuff. That's it! Have we seen one new Stronghold? Has GSF been fixed at all? Are classes being worked on? Has BioWare addressed anything we have demanded they address to us? No.

 

At this point I'm done paying for this game as BioWare has let this community down time after time and there are better games with Dev's who care about what there players think. I'm unsubbed as of today, you won't get another dollar from me until we see some change.

[Belarm]

looking at todays mini-patch, please dont rush the expansions release xD

[Deewe]

You don't seem to understand how marketing works. I'll just leave it at that.

And yet he's totally right with the following statement:

 

You don't need to completely announce everything to reveal something.

[Jadescythe]

Or, like RotHC, it may not even hit the PTS. Honestly, I'd be ok with that so things aren't spoiled. Plus, the PTS has proven to be fairly useless (not totally, but fairly) in terms of testing/debugging.

 

According to this reddit post, RotHC hit PTS 2 months after announcement and early access was 2 months after it hit PTS. Sounds about right.

 

PTS is most useful for finding exploits. To let the players do what developers don't expect to break the game before it hits live.

[Infernixx]

and you need to stop defending bioware every time they fail to deliver on something.

 

Anyone who takes five seconds can see my post/thread history and see that I have my own fair share of problems with how BW does stuff.

 

But, don't let that get in the way of your 'rabble rabble' about me not agreeing with the hysterics over a two week delay of an 'announcement' that has zero impact on the release date of the actual expansion.

 

Carry on with your histrionics.

[ugnos]

I remember the hutt cartell expansion being on the pts with the whole insta lvl to 55 thingy on the fleet,was open to test for around 6 weeks before it launched i believe,only thing that wasn't on open test was Makeb wich was in a closed testing environment.

It's very likely they will do the same with this one that's coming whenever it is.

[Heal-To-Full]

It's too soon anyway.

 

Once the expansion is announced, the forum will flood with QQ about "when will they please reopen the PTS" and how "our whole guild will UNSUB unless PTS is opened TOMORROW".

 

Plus, announcing and gradually revealing 3.0 will suck out a lot of life from what there currently is in the game. Yes, they did announce RotHC early, but that was different, the game (the endgame) was very small at the time, there was nothing to lose. Right now, for a player who does a bit of everything, the game's in a decent state with GSH somewhat revitalizing older content.

 

But whatever they do, there will be QQ about things not being done soon enough, and if they are done soon enough, QQ about how unfinished everything on the PTS is (remember 2.4?), and if it is all finished and there, QQ about how "there's no point to 3.0 because we cleared it all on the PTS".

Edited September 30, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[AlienEyeTX]

And yet he's totally right with the following statement:

 

True. But they have a plan. Starting over with a new plan would only cause further delays.

[ImmortalLowlife]

Honestly....at this point I don't even care anymore. Inquisition drops in a few weeks. I figure with replays, I'll be occupied with that for 3-4 months. By then Witcher 3 will be released, and that should get me thru the summer. Maybe by then BW will have figured out what will be in 3.0 But I've been disappointed enough that I just don't care anymore. I'll keep my sub, and pop in every now and then. Stack up some CC's, get any future sub bonuses, etc (at least until we get a new SW game that's NOT an mmo). But I've lost ALL excitement for this game.

 

*Drops Mic & walks away smdh.....