3.0 information today?? PLEASE!!!!!!!!

[Reno_Tarshil]

Know what? Want things to change? Vote with your wallet.

 

For years I've watched as we've let BioWare walk all over us thanks in part to us just handing them money whenever they want and for me today? No more, I just ended my sub and unless I see some type of change from BioWare? I will not sub to this or any other EA title anymore. We've tried making it clear why we are unhappy on the forums and get ignored. We've tried making it clear on MMORPG.com, Reddit, and other sites and we get ignored. So time to vote with our wallet as I'm unhappy with how this game is.

 

We've seen no new raids, no new flashpoints outside tacticals, content dumb down more and more, the only updates I've seen are for cartel market stuff. That's it! Have we seen one new Stronghold? Has GSF been fixed at all? Are classes being worked on? Has BioWare addressed anything we have demanded they address to us? No.

 

At this point I'm done paying for this game as BioWare has let this community down time after time and there are better games with Dev's who care about what there players think. I'm unsubbed as of today, you won't get another dollar from me until we see some change.

 

I guess ESO and WS wasn't all sunshine and rainbows for you to stay there.

[Heat-Wave]

This is a great question (or questions?), that I think are on a lot of folks minds. As you can imagine I can't go too deep into the rabbit hole in talking about our internal processes but I can give it a go.

 

In short, the process we go through internally to announce something as big as an expansion is actually quite complex and extensive. Although you are correct in that the end process may be a video, a landing page with some copy, etc. the process to get there requires a large amount of moving parts across multiple teams. Aside from just the assets and webpages there is arguably one of the most important aspects of these types of announcements, the game!

 

By the time we announce we have to have a concrete idea of what will be coming in the game with the expansion, what types of perks we might give our subscribers, etc. Unfortunately with so many moving parts, we can sometimes run into the scenario like we did today. If we are not 100% confident in what we are going to put out, for a multitude of possible reasons, it can lead to a delay of announcement.

 

I would caution not to read too deep into what I said above. It is somewhere in the cog of those moving parts that this delay happened, but ultimately our goal remains the same: to get you as many details about this expansion as soon as we can!

 

-eric

 

Eric,

 

With respect, there is a huge problem with what you just said...

 

It is now 09/30/2014... If you don't have the expansion feature complete already, I can't see how you'll release it this year. At least not in properly tested form with everything working, complex software development takes longer than that...

 

Now, if the issue (reading into what you said) is that you're pulling features that aren't ready so you can launch *something* prior to the end of this year, fair enough. But I caution you, a full expansion is expected, you may well face worse backlash by not having it all ready in one go. Just trickling it out over 3.1, 3.2, etc. isn't enough anymore, you're already way late with this.

 

3.0 should have come out this summer, you're now approaching 2 years since the last one, that is a long time in the modern game development cycle.

 

GSH was nice, GSF was not, but some people like it, that's fine. Those are, however, sideshows... The core content, the reason most of us play, hasn't been updated beyond a few tactical FP in a year now. Those of us who are dedicated to the game have now run all the content that is there so many times, our eyes bleed.

 

I've even started playing GSF, just to have something to do, but I'm near my end.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Eric,

 

With respect, there is a huge problem with what you just said...

 

It is now 09/30/2014... If you don't have the expansion feature complete already, I can't see how you'll release it this year. At least not in properly tested form with everything working, complex software development takes longer than that...

 

Now, if the issue (reading into what you said) is that you're pulling features that aren't ready so you can launch *something* prior to the end of this year, fair enough. But I caution you, a full expansion is expected, you may well face worse backlash by not having it all ready in one go. Just trickling it out over 3.1, 3.2, etc. isn't enough anymore, you're already way late with this.

 

3.0 should have come out this summer, you're now approaching 2 years since the last one, that is a long time in the modern game development cycle.

 

GSH was nice, GSF was not, but some people like it, that's fine. Those are, however, sideshows... The core content, the reason most of us play, hasn't been updated beyond a few tactical FP in a year now. Those of us who are dedicated to the game have now run all the content that is there so many times, our eyes bleed.

 

I've even started playing GSF, just to have something to do, but I'm near my end.

 

They promised us an expansion like Makeb before the year was over. They never promised anything more than that nor did they promise it was coming in the Summer.

 

They are not late with this.

 

If 2015 rolls around and no 3.0 Then they will be late.

[Heat-Wave]

In the early days of SWTOR pre-release, this particular policy wasn't in place, and where it was in place it wasn't very well followed. Everyone remember the whole "you'll be able to kill your companion" announcement? Yeah… They announced it before it was actually in the game, and they discovered after the fact that it didn't work out and they needed to back away from it. So they said, "well, you can't kill them now, but you can put them in carbonite or similar". That didn't happen either. There are plenty of other examples from the pre-history of the game that point out the dangers of announcing anything specific at all before you're absolutely certain that it's not only in the game, but play tested at least once.

 

If 3.0 hasn't been finished by this point and is now in testing, it will be hard to release it done in 2014... It takes 3 months to test and debug a major game expansion... It just isn't something you can shortcut...

 

A proper dev cycle would have it more or less 90% feature complete during the summer with the goal of locking it down by Sept 1st, with the announcement Sept 30th, with 3 months of bug testing (from Sep 1st to Dec 1st) with a launch right around Dec 1st.

 

GSH was late, by months, and that was a side show... This dev team needs new management...

[Alssaran]

True. But they have a plan. Starting over with a new plan would only cause further delays.

 

You don't need to start with a new plan, you need to adjust the current plan. When a client calls me and wants some Update on his software, I give him the parts which are ready. I simply withhold the parts which are not ready for testing or presentation yet.

 

Client: "How is X1 coming along?".

Me: "We are working on that. However, X2 is taking shape. You might want to take a look.".

 

It's all about what you reveal. There is no need for an "all or nothing" policy, not in terms of creating a hype. Blizzard also reveals small bits at a time. The title first, some general facts later. A few plans later on (like the idea of reducing numbers by reducing the items overall strength) and then the details. A staggered, partial announcement is the norm these days. Nearly no MMO company waits until the last possible second to release all information about an expansion. Not any company I can think off.

 

If you still believe my marketing knowledge to be so much inferior to your own, you are free to ignore this part of my post. I'd just like to ask you to post me a company which gives out so little information so late into production with the reason that: "Pre order info and subscriber bonus aren't 100% yet.".

 

Once the expansion is announced, the forum will flood with QQ about "when will they please reopen the PTS" and how "our whole guild will UNSUB unless PTS is opened TOMORROW".

 

I might as well tell my customers that they won't be happy with the way the programm is now. It will only make things worse. Transparency is one of the big issues when you create software and games. You can't reveal too much in order to not disturb the customer. But you can't hide everything, because it will make the customer feel unimportant and he/she will think she has no influence on the project.

 

Yes, there will always be people who will cry. I don't deny that. But the decision should be focused on what has the least impact rather than "What has an impact at all?". Calling of such an announcement after getting people excited for three weeks had to lead to such an outcome. As I said, they should have released some information. The new planets name, the title, or a few screenshots. There is no need to withhold this information when the subscriber rewards aren't fully done yet.

 

Carry on with your histrionics.

 

Yes, we will. Even without your approval. Because it is not about a delay per se. It is about how this delay was handled. If I get my customers excited for something (Like seeing their programm for the first time fully functional) and then deliver nothing while saying "Well, the thing is actually not 100% yet. We are at 98%. Better not show you at all." they'd fire me this instant. I bring a positive news right with me, like a functioning example of some of the functions. Something that will show the customer that his faith isn't missplaced, that we might just pull it off.

 

I couldn't care less about a general delay. I had to do them a few times. It is about he whole way they handle this delay. Exciting us, telling us that it will be next week (Friday), then telling us it won't happen at all for two-three weeks. A large portion of the community is currently upset about Biowares policy regarding delays. Shutting down the information process as a whole is the disturbing thing. At the moment, there is nothing to suggest that Bioware will make the deadline. Yes, they never said it will not release in 2014. But to be fair, people also said that about the announcement. "They never said it won't come in September, so don't assume that just yet." would be what many of you would've loved to write underneath a thread which asked this question.

 

Here's the thing: Bioware never admits that something won't happen until the last possible second. It was the 30th of September when they announced that a September update would not happen. They didn't need to be geniuses to figure out on friday morning that an announcement on Monday wasn't possible without working triple overtime at home. So they didn't need to tease it in the Stream. At all.

[AlienEyeTX]

If 3.0 hasn't been finished by this point and is now in testing, it will be hard to release it done in 2014... It takes 3 months to test and debug a major game expansion... It just isn't something you can shortcut...

 

A proper dev cycle would have it more or less 90% feature complete during the summer with the goal of locking it down by Sept 1st, with the announcement Sept 30th, with 3 months of bug testing (from Sep 1st to Dec 1st) with a launch right around Dec 1st.

 

GSH was late, by months, and that was a side show... This dev team needs new management...

 

You know, they do testing as they develop. You know that, right? They don't complete the entire project and then test it.

 

I know there's a decent chance the expansion will be late. I think we all know that. However, until it is actually late or announced to be late, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, huh?

[gekkebori]

They promised us an expansion like Makeb before the year was over. They never promised anything more than that nor did they promise it was coming in the Summer.

 

They are not late with this.

 

If 2015 rolls around and no 3.0 Then they will be late.

 

Bioware stated that 2 expansions were coming this year. One was going to be the size of Makeb (or very similiar), while the other was going to be something new, as we now know as GSH. Like you said, if it is moved forward to 2015 then they will be later than expected.

 

What I do find very frustrating is the manner how Bioware communicated - indifferent really - this change of plans.

Edited September 30, 2014 by gekkebori

[Heat-Wave]

They promised us an expansion like Makeb before the year was over. They never promised anything more than that nor did they promise it was coming in the Summer.

 

They are not late with this.

 

If 2015 rolls around and no 3.0 Then they will be late.

 

Yes, they did... And I said at the time that they were late with it, and they are... The end of 2014 is late, in terms of what the player community expects...

 

I expect at this point they will release SOMETHING called 3.0 before the end of the year, just to get people like YOU to defend them... but it will likely be missing half the features which will take 6 months of 2015 to get released...

 

They could have done that, had it come out this summer, if it comes out in December, it all needs to come in one go.

[Malastare]

So how many of those "cogs" were you still unsure about on Friday? If one or two, then you could just omit them in the announcement, right?

 

Not to ruin everyone's self-indulgent whine-fest, but if Bioware/EA is anything like my employer and the other companies we deal with, then its very possible that they have legal barriers which prevent them from doing just what people.

 

As it was explained to me, when a publicly traded US corporation is makes a change in their business that is likely to affect company profits or financing, they are legally obligated to announce all relevant details of the change in a public location that all investors can access. The release of a new expansion is a profit-generating event. Any perks or extra revenue-generating details are also part of that event. All of them need to be announced publicly.

 

EA does not treat this forum as a public venue. At least, not for legal purposes.

 

When the announcement comes, it will come via a press release. If it were to happen on the forum --even if they're just releasing some of the info-- then they would be opening themselves to lawsuits.

 

Yes, yes, I'm sure your college-age-boredom is far more important to you than the financial laws, but the world doesn't revolve around your desires. Yes, I have wondered why a single huge release is almost always preferred over a few small press releases. No, it doesn't make sense to me, either. From what I've heard, the marketing people dislike the small releases because its so much more work for them... and marketing is already so demanding on the brain that it is too much for them... or something.

 

But maybe --just for a moment-- you could try to think of the situation beyond just your juvenile need for information. There isn't a room of programmers laughing over tricking you all. There isn't some evil villain cackling as they rake in all the cash they made by delaying some information for a couple weeks. There are just a bunch of people trying to do their jobs, likely getting second-guessed by a legal department, and a bunch of childish gamers whining at them because they didn't get their shiny toy this week.

[Jadescythe]

Not to ruin everyone's self-indulgent whine-fest, but if Bioware/EA is anything like my employer and the other companies we deal with, then its very possible that they have legal barriers which prevent them from doing just what people.

 

As it was explained to me, when a publicly traded US corporation is makes a change in their business that is likely to affect company profits or financing, they are legally obligated to announce all relevant details of the change in a public location that all investors can access. The release of a new expansion is a profit-generating event. Any perks or extra revenue-generating details are also part of that event. All of them need to be announced publicly.

 

EA does not treat this forum as a public venue. At least, not for legal purposes.

 

When the announcement comes, it will come via a press release. If it were to happen on the forum --even if they're just releasing some of the info-- then they would be opening themselves to lawsuits.

 

Yes, yes, I'm sure your college-age-boredom is far more important to you than the financial laws, but the world doesn't revolve around your desires. Yes, I have wondered why a single huge release is almost always preferred over a few small press releases. No, it doesn't make sense to me, either. From what I've heard, the marketing people dislike the small releases because its so much more work for them... and marketing is already so demanding on the brain that it is too much for them... or something.

 

But maybe --just for a moment-- you could try to think of the situation beyond just your juvenile need for information. There isn't a room of programmers laughing over tricking you all. There isn't some evil villain cackling as they rake in all the cash they made by delaying some information for a couple weeks. There are just a bunch of people trying to do their jobs, likely getting second-guessed by a legal department, and a bunch of childish gamers whining at them because they didn't get their shiny toy this week.

 

This post is quite intelligent and raises a valid point. The issue is that this isn't something that creeps up over the weekend. Friday afternoon, BW is stating information will be released by Tuesday. So unless someone woke up Sunday morning saying "OH ****, WE FORGOT ABOUT INVESTORS", I don't think this issue is the reason for the delay. I mean, a sub perk delaying the information is the biggest cop out I've ever seen. At least fall back on the "We have to put things in multiple languages" excuse.

[Heat-Wave]

You know, they do testing as they develop. You know that, right? They don't complete the entire project and then test it.

 

I know there's a decent chance the expansion will be late. I think we all know that. However, until it is actually late or announced to be late, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, huh?

 

You work in marketing, I work in software development... Please accept that I might know something about the subject... (or at least likely know more than you do)

 

You of course test during the dev cycle, but then you need to lock it down and test it feature complete, you have to stop adding stuff at some point because every time you do, you break something else.

 

What Eric said is that they pushed back the announcement because they DO NOT KNOW WHAT FEATURES WILL BE IN THE EXPANSION.

 

That is absurd in a software product being released in less than 3 months, if it isn't feature complete now, they have no chance of launching this year, unless they don't care about bugs or if they rip half of it out.

 

BTW, both of those have been done multiple times in this business, with usually predictable results... Many games have been released over the years missing whole feature sets (including stuff advertised on the box!), and some games simply can't be finished as released. Patches sometimes come later, but the damage is usually done by then.

 

A delay to Spring 2015 would be better than rushing it out the door for Christmas if it isn't ready...

 

There is a fine line between "must launch by X date no matter what", and "it'll be done when it's done". Neither really works well.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Heat-Wave

[Alssaran]

Many games have been released over the years missing whole feature sets (including stuff advertised on the box!), and some games simply can't be finished as released.

 

An example I only heard about recently: The WotLK box art featured some flying machinery in the PvP zone of Northrend. The ability to fly into battle in a chopper wasn't added to the game for various reasons. They stated this idea was on their development plan, but got dumped. Despite that, it made the box art. That is an example of something advertised on the box which didn't even make it in game.

[Drockter]

I really don't understand the outrage, really I don't. How does the release of information today, benefit you differently if it is released in two weeks?

 

The flurry of insults, rage, and tears... doesn't necessary mean that anything will come faster. It will be released, when it is ready to be released. We can start the flame fest, if the actual announced date (prior to the end of the year) is missed. Until then, they have communicated that the official announcement has been delayed (by no longer than 2 weeks), but were clear it did not have an impact on the expansion release date.

 

What do you hope to accomplish by all this back and forth between players... calling people out... insulting people on a personal level?

 

You'd think they shot someones dog.

[AlienEyeTX]

You work in marketing, I work in software development... Please accept that I might know something about the subject... (or at least likely know more than you do)

 

You of course test during the dev cycle, but then you need to lock it down and test it feature complete, you have to stop adding stuff at some point because every time you do, you break something else.

 

What Eric said is that they pushed back the announcement because they DO NOT KNOW WHAT FEATURES WILL BE IN THE EXPANSION.

 

That is absurd in a software product being released in less than 3 months, if it isn't feature complete now, they have no chance of launching this year, unless they don't care about bugs or if they rip half of it out.

 

BTW, both of those have been done multiple times in this business, with usually predictable results... Many games have been released over the years missing whole feature sets (including stuff advertised on the box!), and some games simply can't be finished as released. Patches sometimes come later, but the damage is usually done by then.

 

A delay to Spring 2015 would be better than rushing it out the door for Christmas if it isn't ready...

 

There is a fine line between "must launch by X date no matter what", and "it'll be done when it's done". Neither really works well.

 

He didn't state that they don't know the features. More or less, he stated that they need to be sure the planned features will make it into the expansion. Those are two very different things. If you're in software development, you know this. A project is launched with a nice list of features that will be included. As development goes, some things become iffy. When a problem comes up, people speculate as to what it will take to fix it, or if it can be fixed. So, maybe a planned feature falls off. Maybe they save it by whatever deadline and life is good for everyone.

[Orizuru]

You work in marketing, I work in software development... Please accept that I might know something about the subject... (or at least likely know more than you do)

 

You of course test during the dev cycle, but then you need to lock it down and test it feature complete, you have to stop adding stuff at some point because every time you do, you break something else.

 

What Eric said is that they pushed back the announcement because they DO NOT KNOW WHAT FEATURES WILL BE IN THE EXPANSION.

 

That is absurd in a software product being released in less than 3 months, if it isn't feature complete now, they have no chance of launching this year, unless they don't care about bugs or if they rip half of it out.

 

BTW, both of those have been done multiple times in this business, with usually predictable results... Many games have been released over the years missing whole feature sets (including stuff advertised on the box!), and some games simply can't be finished as released. Patches sometimes come later, but the damage is usually done by then.

 

A delay to Spring 2015 would be better than rushing it out the door for Christmas if it isn't ready...

 

There is a fine line between "must launch by X date no matter what", and "it'll be done when it's done". Neither really works well.

 

I noticed that little "implied" message myself and paused to mull it over a minute or two. I'm guessing that there is probably some kind of significant bug in one of the new features that they are desperately trying to fix because someone is pushing hard for that feature to be a headline or major talking point in the announcement. There is cause to worry here because you are correct about that being a major potential issue this close to the end of year when they keep promising to release before the year ends.

 

Hopefully we are reading between the lines incorrectly and that little blurb was just a poor choice of words from a PR person. The people who make posts here on the forums are just the messengers, and I imagine the messages they relay to us have to go through developers, project managers, PR people, and probably even a legal review before they are given to the messengers to share with us. It's possible that phrase was just the result of a few people who are outside the loop on project management and software development and didn't realize there was an implied message therein.

[Nexilein]

What Eric said is that they pushed back the announcement because they DO NOT KNOW WHAT FEATURES WILL BE IN THE EXPANSION.

 

That is absurd in a software product being released in less than 3 months, if it isn't feature complete now, they have no chance of launching this year, unless they don't care about bugs or if they rip half of it out.

 

They are uncertain about specific features, but surely not about large parts of the feature set an expansion ultimately is. There could be a new planet, flashpoints and operations under test, but something like the seeker droid missions is delayed.

If it is uncertain if a minor feature can be finished in time, no sane project lead in the world will delay the whole project.

[Phatbeard]

You work in marketing, I work in software development... Please accept that I might know something about the subject... (or at least likely know more than you do)

 

You of course test during the dev cycle, but then you need to lock it down and test it feature complete, you have to stop adding stuff at some point because every time you do, you break something else.

 

What Eric said is that they pushed back the announcement because they DO NOT KNOW WHAT FEATURES WILL BE IN THE EXPANSION.

 

That is absurd in a software product being released in less than 3 months, if it isn't feature complete now, they have no chance of launching this year, unless they don't care about bugs or if they rip half of it out.

 

BTW, both of those have been done multiple times in this business, with usually predictable results... Many games have been released over the years missing whole feature sets (including stuff advertised on the box!), and some games simply can't be finished as released. Patches sometimes come later, but the damage is usually done by then.

 

A delay to Spring 2015 would be better than rushing it out the door for Christmas if it isn't ready...

 

There is a fine line between "must launch by X date no matter what", and "it'll be done when it's done". Neither really works well.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your personal anecdotal experience--with which you've so extensively availed us--is largely irrelevant, unless you have firsthand knowledge of what's going on with this particular project. I'm guessing you don't. Perhaps you can teach a software development class at the local community college in order to pass the time between now and the expansion. I'm sure your students would love to be regaled by your development war stories and ability to accurately predict timelines for projects on which you haven't seen the slightest bit of code.

[Ottoattack]

This is a great question (or questions?), that I think are on a lot of folks minds. As you can imagine I can't go too deep into the rabbit hole in talking about our internal processes but I can give it a go.

 

In short, the process we go through internally to announce something as big as an expansion is actually quite complex and extensive. Although you are correct in that the end process may be a video, a landing page with some copy, etc. the process to get there requires a large amount of moving parts across multiple teams. Aside from just the assets and webpages there is arguably one of the most important aspects of these types of announcements, the game!

 

By the time we announce we have to have a concrete idea of what will be coming in the game with the expansion, what types of perks we might give our subscribers, etc. Unfortunately with so many moving parts, we can sometimes run into the scenario like we did today. If we are not 100% confident in what we are going to put out, for a multitude of possible reasons, it can lead to a delay of announcement.

 

I would caution not to read too deep into what I said above. It is somewhere in the cog of those moving parts that this delay happened, but ultimately our goal remains the same: to get you as many details about this expansion as soon as we can!

 

-eric

 

I am not on the fence of this is a big deal, but I also do not understand why would it be so difficulty to say the expansion has 1-2 new planets, 1-2 ops, etc.. and will be released on that date (or month at least). You guys 100% have this mapped out, this announcement is not about telling us the name of every planet/ops/fp/Wz/feature/skill/spec changes in 3.0. That is what PTS is for. A simple three paragraph announcement with the the 90 foot view would suffice.

 

What I see is that the expansion will be released 3-4 month after 2015, and you guys do not want to man-up and say that, which TBH does not benefit anybody. If things are getting delayed (which is what it seems like) please say so to avoid unnecessary speculation.

[Infernixx]

I am not on the fence of this is a big deal, but I also do not understand why would it be so difficulty to say the expansion has 1-2 new planets, 1-2 ops, etc.. and will be released on that date (or month at least). You guys 100% have this mapped out, this announcement is not about telling us the name of every planet/ops/fp/Wz/feature/skill/spec changes in 3.0. That is what PTS is for. A simple three paragraph announcement with the the 90 foot view would suffice.

 

What I see is that the expansion will be released 3-4 month after 2015, and you guys do not want to man-up and say that, which TBH does not benefit anybody. If things are getting delayed (which is what it seems like) please say so to avoid unnecessary speculation.

 

This thread is all the evidence you need to understand why they're so tight-lipped about info that might change. People are literally losing their minds over a two week delay in an 'announcement.'

[Tatile]

This thread is all the evidence you need to understand why they're so tight-lipped about info that might change. People are literally losing their minds over a two week delay in an 'announcement.'

 

People really need to learn to lower their expectations by a great margin.

 

It's not like they promised free ice-cream.

[Ottoattack]

This thread is all the evidence you need to understand why they're so tight-lipped about info that might change. People are literally losing their minds over a two week delay in an 'announcement.'

 

Again, the 90 foot view should already be mapped out. Why should not they share it? What I see is that there will be delay in the expansion, and they do not want to announce it. If that is the case, the silence treatment does not help anybody.

[Infernixx]

Again, the 90 foot view should already be mapped out. Why should not they share it? What I see is that there will be delay in the expansion, and they do not want to announce it. If that is the case, the silence treatment does not help anybody.

 

You see what you want to see and nothing else.

[azudelphi]

People really need to learn to lower their expectations by a great margin.

 

It's not like they promised free ice-cream.

 

Prediction for the next 24 hours: Zion's post about Bioware missing their promise of free ice cream.

[Jadescythe]

This thread is all the evidence you need to understand why they're so tight-lipped about info that might change. People are literally losing their minds over a two week delay in an 'announcement.'

 

Perhaps you are taking things at face value that have a deeper meaning. Clearly the people upset aren't that angry about a delay in some announcement. They are most likely either:

 

- Upset at previous delays and are expressing their displeasure more adamantly the more times they arise and about more insignificant happenings

 

- Upset about something completely unrelated to delays and were hoping to find solace in some upcoming feature

 

- Assuming based on this delay that there is a strong possibility of the actual content being delayed.

 

- Upset about the short notice of the delay reminiscent of ranked warzones getting pulled from 1.2 rather than BW honestly coming out and saying something to the effect of "we are still pushing to have X out at this time, but there is an issue that has come up that might delay X."

 

- All of the above

[Ottoattack]

You see what you want to see and nothing else.

 

What is there else to see except "delays?"

Edited September 30, 2014 by Ottoattack