Bioware: Is Crafting to Win™ intended?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Except for crafting. Even with the GSF disparity, I will not be recommending to my guild to take on Triumph during Clash in Hyperspace; crafting trumps GSF, even in the GSF week.

 

Try this maybe? Hoard/build up materials etc. for crafting until that week. Hopefully you will have enough of a base for everyone to almost craft non stop through the event. It may ( will ) mean you do worse in the week(s) leading up to this event but when it hits you effectively can remove the crafting factor from the equation if you can get all your guildies crafting ( and assuming you have similar active toons as the competition guilds ) so even if the other guild does the same thing with the same amount of crafters it would then come down to the GSF as you have said in which you should do better ( even if the repeatable is kind of exploitable ).

 

In the end crafting superiority is determined by material supply if you have equal active toons between competitive guilds - nothing more, nothing less. If you don't have the same amount of active toons as another guild, well don't expect to beat them regardless of what happens to crafting. Superior numbers will ( should unless you're doing something wrong ) always come out on top.

[Large_Signature]

Lol yeah though at which point you can kind go "Hangon, the rewards from this stupid conquest thing suck anyway, I'm going to another guild".

 

I had a quick look at the live scores at some of the guilds spoken about in this thread aren't doing overly well this week and I'm sure they'll put it down to can't be bothered crafting ( because THAT takes more time and effort than organizing the op/wz/gsf hax <- sarcasm there ) but it's probably more like they cannot afford to sustain what they had done previously which many people have said would happen and be the case and it appears to be so even if they do try hide it behind false rhetoric. It's no wonder then they want crafting nerfed because as I said earlier, they no they have the numbers to put out top scores if crafting weren't there for this weeks "rich" guild to take advantage of.

 

 

 

Stating the same stupid, unfounded point you made earlier doesn't make you correct you do realize? There is nothing broken about it, it works perfectly well. Your arguments are flawed and you've been called on them many times. At some point you just have to no when to give up and walk away, kind of like your guild is going at this weeks conquest event it would seem nahmsayim.

 

alright, ill try to explain this very, very simply.

 

only reason you craft is if another guild has a decent chance to beat you and is getting close to the same score in points

 

that is what happened last week

 

that is not happening this week

 

therefor there is no point in wasting mats crafting.

 

Crafting IS broken, this is not in question, it is an established fact.

 

No guilds are "walking away", there is just no reason to push for points when no other guilds are close to you in points.

 

le sigh

Edited October 1, 2014 by Large_Signature

[ArielaKnight]

Fine, just do away with crafting is what it seems every person wants. So what if the ones that are crafting feel like this is a way they can contribute to the damn guild because they dont' like to pvp or do operations but who cares, as long as you get your damn pvp and operation who gives a flip if the ones that like to craft can contribute.

 

They are not important is exactly what you are saying.

 

So do away with the crafting and do away with the people that like to craft. They dont' count in a damn guild. Thanks a bunch!

[MeNaCe-NZ]

alright, ill try to explain this very, very simply.

 

OK and I'll try to reply in very, very simple terms but I will fail because when you look at things "simply" you fail to see the actual truth of the matter.

 

only reason you craft is if another guild has a decent chance to beat you and is getting close to the same score in points

 

No, there are more reasons you craft for conquest points. For example it's the easiest. Also, as proven in this thread, if you have the material base it is the best supply of points to be had. You wouldn't ONLY do it if you think a guild might beat you. I do it because I can't be assed running the other content to get my weekly and help my guild for example. I don't give a crap whether or not another guild will beat us or not as my deciding factor on if I craft or not. I do it because it's easy personally, plain n simple.

Be that you used the words YOU and ONLY we can assume you are wrong on this first point.

 

that is what happened last week

 

that is not happening this week

 

therefor there is no point in wasting mats crafting.

 

Crafting IS broken, this is not in question, it is an established fact.

 

No guilds are "walking away", there is just no reason to push for points when no other guilds are close to you in points.

 

 

So last week was the only week anyone in your guild ever crafted because another guild might have beaten you?Noone has crafted anything at all this week because you don't need to right and you ONLY do it when someone might beat you? I hope you're not the guild leader of you're guild, you're not representing them very well. I guess you are also only interested in winning the planet as opposed to being server/world best? As bit of work to do on your server currently if that was important.

 

Now back to crafting being broken, you've replied 3 times now stating it IS broken without actually being able to state how or why?

 

Like I said, this all to me looks like guilds who cannot keep up the crafting effort as they did due to the inherent downside which is the cost. Yet they know they have the numbers to own at ops/fps etc. so want to dominate in this area without having to worry about the inherent cost of crafting thus want crafting nerfed.

[ivanhedgehog]

Much as I disagree with DarthTHC on other things, your alleged knowledge of how much people people you know supposedly spend on beer for tailgate parties is irrelevant. A tailgate party is nothing like a contest for virtual goods and bragging rights in a computer game.

 

Try again.

 

you try again. he was claiming no one would spend that much to get ahead on a contest like this. I showed that 500 was trivial to some people. some people will spend $500 on hypercrates. some people can and will go to any lengths in a contest like this and the money matters nothing to them. look how much people have spent of buying characters and accounts in wow. there is currently a level 90 human warrior going for the low low price of $350 on one site I found with a simple google search. I have seen them sold for a lot more.

[Prisoner]

Fine, just do away with crafting is what it seems every person wants. So what if the ones that are crafting feel like this is a way they can contribute to the damn guild because they dont' like to pvp or do operations but who cares, as long as you get your damn pvp and operation who gives a flip if the ones that like to craft can contribute.

 

They are not important is exactly what you are saying.

 

So do away with the crafting and do away with the people that like to craft. They dont' count in a damn guild. Thanks a bunch!

 

Yes that's totally what people are saying, Lmao. You're not freaking out or exaggerating even the tiniest bit. They want to drink your tasty crafter tears.

 

To the op, I think you're spot on, sadly this thread is full of morons. Hopefully bioware will realize how broken this issue is and bring crafting in line with everything else before the majority of players stop caring and wander off in boredom.

[Rambeezy]

If you want to be a NiM ops guild, be that! You can still craft during the op (when you're not fighting, obviously) and during times you're not in the op, right?

 

Or should we also start saying that crafters are getting shafted when it comes to obtaining top-tier PvE gear?

 

I think this post says a lot about the kind of player you are. /thread

[Elfa]

I think this post says a lot about the kind of player you are. /thread

 

We all know what kind of player he was long, long before this particular post.

[Rambeezy]

Fine, just do away with crafting is what it seems every person wants. So what if the ones that are crafting feel like this is a way they can contribute to the damn guild because they dont' like to pvp or do operations but who cares, as long as you get your damn pvp and operation who gives a flip if the ones that like to craft can contribute.

 

They are not important is exactly what you are saying.

 

So do away with the crafting and do away with the people that like to craft. They dont' count in a damn guild. Thanks a bunch!

 

Nobody is saying get rid of it completely. I believe most just want it tweaked.

[Deewe]

Hopefully bioware will realize how broken this issue is and bring crafting in line with everything else before the majority of players stop caring and wander off in boredom.

Rest assured they are totally aware of the issue.

 

Now what I'd be worried about is how they are going to fix it, considering past records, and eventually when.

 

Sometimes you wonder if the designers even play their game at all.

[Icestar]

I don't like PvP.

 

Joe doesn't like Flashpoints.

 

Larry doesn't like Operations.

 

Becky-Sue doesn't like planetary Heroic Quests.

 

Roxanne doesn't like GSF.

 

You don't like Crafting.

 

Good thing the activities are varied and spread around an entire guild, isn't it?

 

What? I never said I did not like crafting. I got the master crafter title and the unstoppable force title etc....

 

They simply put to much weight into crafting regarding conquest.

[ParagonAX]

Rambeezy, I do agree with you. I think actually BW should implement a tiered system where:

 

• NiM > HM > SM ops (in terms of conquest points awarded)
  
• Ranked > unranked pvp
  
• HM FPs > SM FPs (actually I guess they already kinda have this since HM FPs have bonus bosses which give more points)
  
• Don't know anything about GSF to suggest changes
  
• Fix crafting to not be completely broken
  

 

 

This way, smaller (but more elite) guilds will be able to fight against larger (but less focused) guilds, without the need for gaming a broken system.

Edited October 1, 2014 by ParagonAX

[Large_Signature]

OK and I'll try to reply in very, very simple terms but I will fail because when you look at things "simply" you fail to see the actual truth of the matter.

 

 

 

No, there are more reasons you craft for conquest points. For example it's the easiest. Also, as proven in this thread, if you have the material base it is the best supply of points to be had. You wouldn't ONLY do it if you think a guild might beat you. I do it because I can't be assed running the other content to get my weekly and help my guild for example. I don't give a crap whether or not another guild will beat us or not as my deciding factor on if I craft or not. I do it because it's easy personally, plain n simple.

Be that you used the words YOU and ONLY we can assume you are wrong on this first point.

 

 

 

So last week was the only week anyone in your guild ever crafted because another guild might have beaten you?Noone has crafted anything at all this week because you don't need to right and you ONLY do it when someone might beat you? I hope you're not the guild leader of you're guild, you're not representing them very well. I guess you are also only interested in winning the planet as opposed to being server/world best? As bit of work to do on your server currently if that was important.

 

Now back to crafting being broken, you've replied 3 times now stating it IS broken without actually being able to state how or why?

 

Like I said, this all to me looks like guilds who cannot keep up the crafting effort as they did due to the inherent downside which is the cost. Yet they know they have the numbers to own at ops/fps etc. so want to dominate in this area without having to worry about the inherent cost of crafting thus want crafting nerfed.

 

Forgive me, in my attempt to simplify my post for you I should have said "Craft in large quantities". while yes, some may do a bit of crafting for their points due to the ability to multitask/log off while crafting, this week nobody is making very large sums of war supplies in the desire for large amounts of points because there is no need.

 

As far as crafting being overpowered, the OP and multiple other posts clearly show that crafting is overpowered, this is not in debate.

[Psychopyro]

As I said before, you cant reason with stupid, which is why sadly we still have people not listening to the clear, obvious fact that crafting is broken.

 

le sigh

 

As I pointed out above, it's not broken.. The whole system is working as intended.. It's a money grab pure and simple... They are not going to fix it unless it quits making them money... which will be once the top guilds have all gotten their titles and no one cares anymore...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7701626&postcount=496

[MeNaCe-NZ]

As far as crafting being overpowered, the OP and multiple other posts clearly show that crafting is overpowered, this is not in debate.

 

Are you "special" or something? It's 52 pages now about it BEING IN DEBATE. You only get mass threads like this when everyone doesn't agree otherwise you end up with a 10-20 page thread of everyone ************ at bioware to fix something.

 

this week nobody is making very large sums of war supplies in the desire for large amounts of points because there is no need.

 

When is there ever a need? When you might not get first on your planet? Isn't getting first primarily for kudos/rep/call it what you will? That being the case if by your own admission you WOULD craft hard out for first on a planet would you not want the even greater kudos of aiming for server top of world top for a week? In which case there would be more of a need that getting first on some planet that barely anyone challenging is competing on?

 

I'm still waiting for just ONE person to point out how crafting is actually BROKEN ( please by all means look this word up in a dictionary ) as in it's not working. It's easy to throw words around and try act all like "everyone else in this thread said it was" as your proof or evidence in a means of pretending you have some massive public backing but unless you can back up your own point with a solid argument yourself you are better off going to do something else that participating in any sort of debate.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Rambeezy, I do agree with you. I think actually BW should implement a tiered system where:•NiM > HM > SM ops (in terms of conquest points awarded)

•Ranked > unranked pvp

•HM FPs > SM FPs (actually I guess they already kinda have this since HM FPs have bonus bosses which give more points)

•Don't know anything about GSF to suggest changes

•Fix crafting to not be completely broken

 

This way, smaller (but more elite) guilds will be able to fight against larger (but less focused) guilds, without the need for gaming a broken system.

 

 

This whole progress group issue was discussed in other threads long ago with no clear agreement by all involved.

 

From my point of view it was mostly that NiM groups get the top tier gear that money just can't buy ( well actually it can if you pay them to run you through it like I think it is YES offers this service ) as well as the kudos of completing the content and the competition around world first's etc. It would be nice if Bioware offered some sort of official ranking for this as I don't believe they do do they? PVP and conquest players/guilds get it so too should PVE?

 

In any case I believe what those raiding groups get is good enough and the reputation they get is far superior to any reputation any conquest guild will ever earn in the yes of the other competitive/higher end players. Also a lot of raiding groups only have 2-3 teams aiming for NiM content anyway. Even if you had 5 x 16 person teams that's still 400 people you could recruit purely for conquest if you wanted ... I don't see the need to cater conquest towards raid groups personally. They can choose to do well at conquest as it is if they want to or can continue raiding and give up a few points ( whilst still getting points CRAFTING lol! ).

If anything you could argue that crafting caters to the raid groups and they should be all for it since they won't have the time to keep up with other content for points if they are raiding right?

[RiVaN_]

You have obviously missed the point of the post. Perhaps I am just wasting my time with these kinds of petitions. The player base is too thick to understand simple logic.

 

You hit the nail on the head. I understand you completely and yes most folks in this thread are more likely to tell you to stop playing if you don't like it than they are to have a rational discussion about the topic.

 

Unfortunately most of the forum posters and readers are concrete thinkers, they have been trained NOT to think creatively or think outside their own bubble. My observation is that the majority of the people who post in the forums are to self focused to be able to see someone else point of view, or even attempt to understand it.

[Zoom_VI]

concrete thinkers

 

I don't think you understand what that means, in addition accusing people who disagree of being "self-focused" since in a way you yourself are being "self-focused" in accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being "self-focused" is rather hypocritical.

[ikinai]

If you haven't figured it out yet in the 52 pages of this thread, the answer is yes. So get crafting.

[Domatron]

I don't think you understand what that means, in addition accusing people who disagree of being "self-focused" since in a way you yourself are being "self-focused" in accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being "self-focused" is rather hypocritical.

 

Are you taking to a mirror? After all your grandstanding while ignoring the post we made 3 weeks ago (which you claimed would be the barometer of our intention) the irony of this post is not lost on me.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Unfortunately most of the forum posters and readers are concrete thinkers, they have been trained NOT to think creatively or think outside their own bubble. My observation is that the majority of the people who post in the forums are to self focused to be able to see someone else point of view, or even attempt to understand it.

 

Says the people who can't take their own advice. Someone disagrees with your perspective or opinion they are suddenly unable to think creatively or outside their own bubble? Why that sounds like something someone who can't see someone else's point of view would say ... wait didn't you just say ... lol never mind.

 

There has been plenty of good debate in this thread and there are no real winners or losers just different opinions. It's how you get that opinion across and support it with logical thinking, facts and figures that matters. Not just saying "wah wah this is clearly broken it should be fixed".

 

There is no perfect solution because crafting is great for people who maybe credit/money rich but time poor ( due to work, school ,family etc. ) in the game so they can contribute heavily. Remove that and you then favor the time rich people ( many with no job, no school, no family - real winners in society who sit at home gaming all day and then cry on forums because they still can't get top spots because they didn't have a job to buy up packs to sell for materials for crafting etc. - not painting everyone who plays non stop with this brush but it is a stigma I have with most "fulltime" players and it's probably not too far from the truth ) with ops/fps etc.

[DarthTHC]

I think this post says a lot about the kind of player you are. /thread

 

I am quite amused at how swiftly you jump to assumptions (incorrect, obviously) and try to kill the thread. Very constructive, yes?

 

I'm the type of player who thinks players should try to solve their own problems themselves first.

 

I'm the type of player who thinks players ought to avoid complaining when they make choices that produce predictable results, yet they dislike the results. Maybe... just maybe... they should give another choice a shot.

Edited October 1, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Celuwen]

When the conquests began, my highest level character wasn't yet 55. I wanted to contribute so I started crafting, I ended up being the second-most contributor for my guild without really trying. That's a bit broken.

 

Having said that I can't be bothered with the crafting/gathering infinity and have pretty much stopped with the conquests; I was getting burned out. I wonder if people feel they HAVE to keep up this level of crazy so they don't let their guild down.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but the conquest system doesn't really work very well.

[Nepthen]

I'm gonna stop saying that crafting needs to be nerfed but everyone else needs to start saying that NiM progression guilds are getting shafted when it comes to conquest points.

 

I can agree with that.

 

SM Ops are a joke (HM too)... GF is even worse since it's bolstered. The NiM progression guilds should be able to cash in on their ability to clear the NiM content.

[KloudyKlaw]

This was definitely a crafting battle! - Sorry for the comment late in the game.

 

We very strategically ran all the FPs, dailies, weeklies until we were blue in the face, and that earned less points than our crafting pushes...

 

Crafting is absolutely sustainable. I was low on mats when the week began and spent under 1 mil (on gathering and paying low rates on mats from guild mates) to get about 500k conquest points across my 5 characters. I could do it again this week and next too... but the pts return is less this week!

 

Part of me wondered why I was doing anything besides crafting, since some of the PUG FPs were slower than ideal.

 

Bioware will likely nerf crafting in conquest, but my guess would be it won't happen until some of our guilds have already conquered the galaxy with our crafting diligence.

 

Is crafting to win fun? I challenge you to find a single sole who prefers crafting over other dynamics of the game... It's actually really frustrating getting lots of some mats and less of others in gathering (but you know this already!)

 

Will we craft to win? Yes, we'd do virtually everything allowed to win and we'd figure out ways to gain the edge.

 

Like any war, victory goes to the army with more resources and soldiers.

 

I recognize issue OP is raising, and would guess it's a win and a loss for Bioware - People will get burned out from crafting, but it probably helps the cartel market to get the edge. - I'm guessing a few server transfers occurred to replenish mats for some of the point surges in last week's battle? - Not judging - we may have done it too if we planned in advance.

 

To address the issue of giant guilds taking planets, once a major guild has taken a planet, its more than likely we/they won't go back to take it again... so each week, some planets are more accessible by the mid-size guilds. In some cases, the giant guilds are likely to help smaller guilds take their planets. - Allies are a good thing!

 

I can't believe the importance of Taris for conquest. Where's a Death Star beam when you need one?