Terimac Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Yo boyz n gals! I respect all vengeance juggs/guardians! I mean how do you know when to leap and when to rofl lol 420 blaze it master strike/ravage someone? When i get pushed by jugg/guard then i just clap my hands irl, i know when i've been outplayed. Its because i know when a jugg/guard uses their push ability they are in gods hands, they take a huge leap and while they are mid air they are still thinking about that they are gonna do next, could the mighty master strike/ravage skill be the answer? Edited September 23, 2014 by Terimac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Cry some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Yo boyz n gals! I respect all vengeance juggs/guardians! I mean how do you know when to leap and when to rofl lol 420 blaze it master strike/ravage someone? When i get pushed by jugg/guard then i just clap my hands irl, i know when i've been outplayed. Its because i know when a jugg/guard uses their push ability they are in gods hands, they take a huge leap and while they are mid air they are still thinking about that they are gonna do next, could the mighty master strike/ravage skill be the answer? Bad Guardians push>leap>MS. It's entirely expected and not the most efficient way to kill someone or help your team. Unfortunately it's also exceptionally easy and probably the closest thing to a headshot kill the CoD kiddies can get in this game. Consequently, I doubt anyone will be happy until they have have an actual headshot ability. Nerf Snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Bad Guardians push>leap>MS. It's entirely expected and not the most efficient way to kill someone or help your team. Unfortunately it's also exceptionally easy and probably the closest thing to a headshot kill the CoD kiddies can get in this game. Consequently, I doubt anyone will be happy until they have have an actual headshot ability. Nerf Operatives. Fixed it for you, you misspelt operative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I respect all vengeance juggs/guardians! Said no one ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The most annoying thing about Vigi/Veng is how I rubber band back in to their MS/Ravage when I pop HTL/HO. I start moving before they even start the channel and I get yanked back for the first 2 hits so of course I'm not far away enough to escape the third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkshadz Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The most annoying thing about Vigi/Veng is how I rubber band back in to their MS/Ravage when I pop HTL/HO. I start moving before they even start the channel and I get yanked back for the first 2 hits so of course I'm not far away enough to escape the third. Or when you get rubberbanded when you roll and they leap at you 0.5 sec after. Really annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Or when you get rubberbanded when you roll and they leap at you 0.5 sec after. Really annoying roll is completely broken. I don't mean it's OP. I mean it's actually broken someone rolls, and he's under the floor. then he's not. he disappears as if he vanished, then he shows up almost 30m away. he rubberbands back and forth and even sideways sometimes! it's just broken. if BW cannot fix this (i understand there's a server-client handshake to consider), then they need to get rid of the abil and replace it with something else that's useful. honestly, just give them force speed. that, at least, isn't broken. I know there's some issues with leaps in this game too, but I've never seen anything so predictable and frequent as scoop-roll putting players in crazy places for a second or two and then placing them somewhere completely different. and let us not forget the tried and true roll bug where you become immobilized. Edited September 23, 2014 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The most annoying thing about Vigi/Veng is how I rubber band back in to their MS/Ravage when I pop HTL/HO. I start moving before they even start the channel and I get yanked back for the first 2 hits so of course I'm not far away enough to escape the third. Similar happened to me a number of times on my op tonight. I used my root break in Lethality and went to roll away from the ravage but the game decided that I was going to eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Nerf Snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osdorof Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 in my opinion they can take away the unstoppable after the resettet leap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 in my opinion they can take away the unstoppable after the resettet leap lol I concede that it's annoying. and for that matter, so was the knockdown from concealment, but taking something away simply because it's frustrating is not valid. I think you have to look a little more objectively at the class's performance, and you'll see that their survivability is off the charts next to any comparable class (PT dps, mara, op dps, merc dps, sniper, sorc dps). a well played sin can last about as long, but the sin has to pull away from combat to do so whereas the jugg lives that long in the heat of battle. so yeah, it's their survivability not anything particular to the middle tree's unique CC/immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Wow, after spending a long time away from the game it feels like stepping into an alternate universe. Vigilance is OP now? It's not Focus that's the target of the QQ? Such an odd feeling. Cry me a river though. We were considered barely viable or not viable at all, for like almost two years after launch. Now we're getting our moment in the spotlight. Let us enjoy it for a little while, BW will no doubt gimp us soon. (But yeah, the new Focused Defense is LOLWUT. It's nice to find yourself suddenly at full health under intense focus fire) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) lol I concede that it's annoying. and for that matter, so was the knockdown from concealment, but taking something away simply because it's frustrating is not valid. I think you have to look a little more objectively at the class's performance, and you'll see that their survivability is off the charts next to any comparable class (PT dps, mara, op dps, merc dps, sniper, sorc dps). a well played sin can last about as long, but the sin has to pull away from combat to do so whereas the jugg lives that long in the heat of t. so yeah, it's their survivability not anything particular to the middle tree's unique CC/immunity. yes, show me the top leaderboard stats that say guardians are off the charts? Guardians don't have ranged attacks, they don't have stuns (other than push - cry me a river), they don't have stealth and vigilance is far from the best dps out there. Looking at the top ratings, juggs are in the middle. Looking at the top 100 juggs are not #1 or #2 most represented even though they are one of the more popular classes (which has little to do with them being op). The best jugg I know with the best rating plays a tank, not vigi. If there are numbers/charts saying juggs are a big problem and need a nerf I'd love to see them. Edited September 23, 2014 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tellenn Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 yes, show me the top leaderboard stats that say guardians are off the charts? Guardians don't have ranged attacks, they don't have stuns (other than push - cry me a river), they don't have stealth and vigilance is far from the best dps out there. Looking at the top ratings, juggs are in the middle. Looking at the top 100 juggs are not #1 or #2 even though they are one of the more popular classes (which has little to do with them being op). The best jugg I know with the best rating plays a tank, not vigi. If there are numbers/charts saying juggs are a big problem and need a nerf I'd love to see them. They are not top because they are a boring ezmode class that attracts boring ezmode players. You're always going to get squishy burst dps, stealth or kiting classes at the top as they are fun to play and better players that can make any class op will choose them instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafy_Bug Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 If it is not top chartz, it is okay! It needs a buff ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Vig is only effective when there are no healers cuz they do not die. Put competent healers in the mix, and their effectiveness drops like a rock, cuz their damage is pathetic and many other melee dps have much better up-time and control, like sins (both specs), carnage and PTs (both specs). If they remove ED and improve up-time or burst vig will become something more useful than being a troll spec in yolo rank and semi useless everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Bad Guardians push>leap>MS. Considering ravage is their bread and butter where most of their damage comes from and it roots.... No that doesn't make them bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 If it is not top chartz, it is okay! It needs a buff ! The problem with ppl like you is you don't even know you're trolling. Yes, my argument is: they aren't dominating any charts (or dueling tournaments) and therefore they don't need nerfs or deserve threads like this one. Based on the numbers I can see they're right around where they should be. What is your opinion based on? Random encounters with good players? Tunnel vision filtering out all of the ones that are free kills or all of those games where dps from other classes buried the dps/kbs and heals from the juggs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 yes, show me the top leaderboard stats that say guardians are off the charts? Guardians don't have ranged attacks, they don't have stuns (other than push - cry me a river), they don't have stealth and vigilance is far from the best dps out there. Looking at the top ratings, juggs are in the middle. Looking at the top 100 juggs are not #1 or #2 most represented even though they are one of the more popular classes (which has little to do with them being op). The best jugg I know with the best rating plays a tank, not vigi. If there are numbers/charts saying juggs are a big problem and need a nerf I'd love to see them. At the end of last season out of the top 500 solo queue payer Juggs/Guardians made up ~20% of those players compared to 7.5% at the end of season 1. So unless everyone that plays that class all the sudden got really good there might be a slight imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Or solo queue is a **** method to balance classes around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 At the end of last season out of the top 500 solo queue payer Juggs/Guardians made up ~20% of those players compared to 7.5% at the end of season 1. So unless everyone that plays that class all the sudden got really good there might be a slight imbalance. How many players played juggs? if it was "20% of all players on the board" then that number is right where it should have been. But much of season 2's activity occurred before juggs -were- nerfed (and other classes have been buffed) so that season is a bit skewed no matter what. And were juggs the best or were some other classes (maras) just very bad? What percentage of that top 500 were sins and sorcs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 At the end of last season out of the top 500 solo queue payer Juggs/Guardians made up ~20% of those players compared to 7.5% at the end of season 1. So unless everyone that plays that class all the sudden got really good there might be a slight imbalance. This statistic makes it sound like they got buffed to a good state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Considering ravage is their bread and butter where most of their damage comes from and it roots.... No that doesn't make them bad. It does, in fact, make them worse. As I noted, it's entirely expected and not the best use of UR. But then.. I've only played Vigilance exclusively since launch so what do I know, right? Edit: 1v1, that's the correct combo. In a group there are more efficient ways to get your damage out. Push>Leap is just surfing, and there are better uses of the push as well. Edited September 23, 2014 by maverickmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 yes, show me the top leaderboard stats that say guardians are off the charts? Guardians don't have ranged attacks, they don't have stuns (other than push - cry me a river), they don't have stealth and vigilance is far from the best dps out there. Looking at the top ratings, juggs are in the middle. Looking at the top 100 juggs are not #1 or #2 most represented even though they are one of the more popular classes (which has little to do with them being op). The best jugg I know with the best rating plays a tank, not vigi. If there are numbers/charts saying juggs are a big problem and need a nerf I'd love to see them. so you disagree that their survivability is OFF THE CHARTS? well above every other dps spec in the game? lol get some perspective. this isn't even debatable. they much better survivability than any other dps. they're always the last man standing, either to win the match or the last guy on the losing team. you have to kill them twice over compared to anyone else (aside from the rare stealth who managed to hide away and heal while his team tries to 3v4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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