ImmortalLowlife Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 .....Bottom Line: BW does't owe you a damn thing with regards to what is in the pipeline. Get over yourselves. Wrong....As a paying customer to a service they provide, if they want to continue to get my money they need to provide an incentive. Would you keep paying Netflix if all they told you was "new movies coming soon" a year and a half ago? Would you shop at a store whos only advertisement was "we got stuff"? No you wouldn't....but that's EXACTLY what BW has been doing....saying "New stuff coming soon", and expecting THAT to satisfy fans..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floredon Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I agree, and at one point Bioware was doing this through James Ohlen. Too bad they stopped him or he stopped himself from communicating like this. To Bioware's credit, they have been getting slightly better at communicating since Eric Musco came on board. I get the feeling that the decision not to be transparent is coming from senior management (maybe more senior than Ohlen), and they're simply out of touch with the gamers and more in touch with their quarterly earnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorlac Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Why? Do they owe you some duty to keep you in the development loop? Are you unable to sleep at night without knowing exactly what and when BW plans on updates? Basically, we've become an A.D.D. society who is used to getting information at our fingertips 24/7 and we expect to know everything about everything right away. This has spoiled people who can't display the slightest patience to wait for anything. People feel the need to gobble up rumors and spoilers to learn every detail about a movie before it's released or everything that's going to happen on their favorite TV show before it airs. Guess what...this expansion isn't getting here any faster based on what level of detail is revealed to you and when it is revealed. Not sure how you managed to extrapolate such nonsense from my post tbh... Fact is other MMOs choose to do exactly what I proposed. And as a loyal (and paying) customer I see no fault in expressing my preferrence for this type of communication management. (Note that I didn't say I DEMAND INFO NOW OR I UNSUB or anything along those lines) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Bottom Line: BW does't owe you a damn thing with regards to what is in the pipeline. Get over yourselves. LOL! Talk about getting over yourself...you should too. Bioware operates a business. Customers asking for info on what they have coming next, is what customers do. If they can't handle it, they're in the wrong business. Since you are obviously overly emotional about this topic, maybe you should stick to following them on twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Wrong....As a paying customer to a service they provide, if they want to continue to get my money they need to provide an incentive. Would you keep paying Netflix if all they told you was "new movies coming soon" a year and a half ago? Would you shop at a store whos only advertisement was "we got stuff"? No you wouldn't....but that's EXACTLY what BW has been doing....saying "New stuff coming soon", and expecting THAT to satisfy fans..... False, you pay for the game. BW chooses the method that they believe will garner and retain the most revenue. And as I see it they are finally doing it right, look at the history, every time they give out information too early they get burned hard. They where burned with 1.2, 2.4, GSF, and arguably even GSH. Its in their best interest to keep things under wraps to keep speculation in check because if they give information out too early the speculation goes out the roof and then they get mutiny when the actual release doesn't bring whatever was speculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Bioware operates a business. Customers asking for info on what they have coming next, is what customers do. If they can't handle it, they're in the wrong business. Except this isn't Walmart. Customers ask for many things and many of the things they ask for they are better off without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Bottom Line: BW does't owe you a damn thing with regards to what is in the pipeline. Get over yourselves. It's funny when folks think a particular biz discipline exists in a magical silo where this is a unique situation and thus they are special snowflakes. Sorry to break bad news, but it's the same for every other industry/sector/biz/entrepreneur. Get over yourself. Edited September 16, 2014 by Joesixxpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) They know, just as one example, from bitter experience, what happens when they talk about a future feature and it does not arrive quite the way they indicated it would. All hell breaks loose. Are you trying to say that Bioware is purposely not disclosing information out of FEAR? Edited September 16, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorlac Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 False, you pay for the game. BW chooses the method that they believe will garner and retain the most revenue. And as I see it they are finally doing it right, look at the history, every time they give out information too early they get burned hard. They where burned with 1.2, 2.4, GSF, and arguably even GSH. Its in their best interest to keep things under wraps to keep speculation in check because if they give information out too early the speculation goes out the roof and then they get mutiny when the actual release doesn't bring whatever was speculated. And not giving out information keeps speculation in check how exactly? People will turn to stuff that gets datamined in the absence of any official communication and speculate even more IMO. As for getting burned, a few vocal forum goers screaming FEATURE X SUXX!! should NOT discourage a team of professional developers from being more forthcoming with information. If they can't take that, they're in the wrong business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I like the UNPAID person, a lot. Thanks to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 False, you pay for the game. BW chooses the method that they believe will garner and retain the most revenue. And as I see it they are finally doing it right, look at the history, every time they give out information too early they get burned hard. They where burned with 1.2, 2.4, GSF, and arguably even GSH. Its in their best interest to keep things under wraps to keep speculation in check because if they give information out too early the speculation goes out the roof and then they get mutiny when the actual release doesn't bring whatever was speculated. Nope....I paid for the game when I bought it at launch. I pay for a service every month....and I expect THEM to keep me informed of what's coming better than they have been if they want me to continue to pay for their service. No other company could get away with NOT giving information to customers. It's like a car company who's only advertisement is "it's bigger than last year's model! Here's a teaser trailer that only shows.....gasp! It's got wheels! So excuse me if BW saying...just keep waiting, there's More info coming 26 seconds before we shut the servers down to install the expansion.... don't cut it wit me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 And not giving out information keeps speculation in check how exactly? People will turn to stuff that gets datamined in the absence of any official communication and speculate even more IMO. As for getting burned, a few vocal forum goers screaming FEATURE X SUXX!! should NOT discourage a team of professional developers from being more forthcoming with information. If they can't take that, they're in the wrong business. If you are trying to manage expectations and keep wild speculation from ruining stuff,* there are two approaches, either full transparency where you release all the details right away, so that there is no room for wild expectations to fester, or you give nothing, so that there is not enough information to even generate speculation. The problem with the former is that if you have to change anything before release, which is something that happens frequently in software development, you are going to have hordes of angry people after you for altering the deal. *Like how sooo many people convinced themselves that GSF was going to either a full blown realistic spaceflight simulator or BF2 boarding style action, and then go ticked off when it turned out to be a modern take on the old school arcade games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Nope....I paid for the game when I bought it at launch. I pay for a service every month....and I expect THEM to keep me informed of what's coming better than they have been if they want me to continue to pay for their service. No other company could get away with NOT giving information to customers. It's like a car company who's only advertisement is "it's bigger than last year's model! Here's a teaser trailer that only shows.....gasp! It's got wheels! So excuse me if BW saying...just keep waiting, there's More info coming 26 seconds before we shut the servers down to install the expansion.... don't cut it wit me. Companies will do what is in their best interests. Your expectations are have no bearing on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Oh look, another back-and-forth over "BW doesn't have to give you [X]" vs "If BW doesn't give players [X] they are going to lose them as players" - these are always so productive. Edited September 16, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 If you are trying to manage expectations and keep wild speculation from ruining stuff,* there are two approaches, either full transparency where you release all the details right away, so that there is no room for wild expectations to fester, or you give nothing, so that there is not enough information to even generate speculation. The problem with the former is that if you have to change anything before release, which is something that happens frequently in software development, you are going to have hordes of angry people after you for altering the deal. *Like how sooo many people convinced themselves that GSF was going to either a full blown realistic spaceflight simulator or BF2 boarding style action, and then go ticked off when it turned out to be a modern take on the old school arcade games. On the flip side, if you give nothing, people think nothing is being done and are quick to move to other MMOs, most of which do a far superior job of keeping their player base in the loop and don't let unrealistic expectations scare them away from marketing their own game the way BioWare does. For all the excuses people make for BioWare (and that's all they are, is excuses, not reasons), other MMO companies do a far better job of how they handle, release, and hype information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Nope....I paid for the game when I bought it at launch. I pay for a service every month....and I expect THEM to keep me informed of what's coming better than they have been if they want me to continue to pay for their service. No other company could get away with NOT giving information to customers. It's like a car company who's only advertisement is "it's bigger than last year's model! Here's a teaser trailer that only shows.....gasp! It's got wheels! So excuse me if BW saying...just keep waiting, there's More info coming 26 seconds before we shut the servers down to install the expansion.... don't cut it wit me. As someone else said and I will repeat, you personal expectations have little to no bearing on the bigger picture. They will take your feedback but they owe you nothing based on your feedback. I expect my boss to give me a huge raise every year. I doubt that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floredon Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 As someone else said and I will repeat, you personal expectations have little to no bearing on the bigger picture. They will take your feedback but they owe you nothing based on your feedback. I expect my boss to give me a huge raise every year. I doubt that will happen.and yet you can negotiate for a raise, and look for higher paying jobs if you don't get one. Some people just take what they have and never ask for more, and they tend not to do as well as those who do ask and look for more. Please don't be upset by those of us who want more, and ask for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Companies will do what is in their best interests. Your expectations are have no bearing on that. Companies who don't take into account customer expectations don't last long...just ask Capcom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) For all the excuses people make for BioWare (and that's all they are, is excuses, not reasons), other MMO companies do a far better job of how they handle, release, and hype information. Really? How so? How is their methods any better? Particularly given the fact that SWTOR is the second largest MMO on the western market. You seem to be running on the "someone else does it that way, so we should do it that way too." Which is not a good strategy at all. Besides withholding information builds suspense, mystery, and anticipation, which are valuable marketing tools in their own right. Edited September 16, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Companies who don't take into account customer expectations don't last long...just ask Capcom... Companies that fail to look at the bigger picture don't last long either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 This is bunk. These forums are extremely understanding when things go south IF they communicate it. Your false statement has been proven wrong time and again. This community does not hold them accountable for delays, just poor communication. Do you frequent the same forums as the rest of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunav Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Would it hurt them to say that expansion X will include X operations with a total of X bosses, X FPs, X WZs...etc. for example? Yes - unlike other games on the market, BW releases content for the expansion slowly over a year or more. If what is coming in 3.0 is announced, players will be disappointed. If they announce everything in the patch cycle, players will be disappointed. The Dread Master arc and associated content was a little over a years' worth spread out over much longer. That is how SWTOR updates have been and probably are going forward. In short: it would hurt them, because much of the remaining subscriber base includes die-hard SW fans that cling to the hope that because of the CM's success the game itself will see a greater volume of new content, which it probably will not. Players would finally decide it's not worth it and leave. Edited September 16, 2014 by arunav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 and yet you can negotiate for a raise, and look for higher paying jobs if you don't get one. Some people just take what they have and never ask for more, and they tend not to do as well as those who do ask and look for more. Please don't be upset by those of us who want more, and ask for it. I'm not telling people to not ASK for more. What I usually argue against is the constant diatribe about how bad Bioware is bad at communicating when they really aren't any different. If I go to my boss EVERY DAY and ask for a raise, I won't have a job any more. I am also realistic that my raise is based on an evaluation of the situation. Bioware has a chosen a conservative approach to the situation where they only reveal information that is finalized. I find nothing wrong with that. Would I like MORE info? Yes. But I am not going to badger Bioware with 15 forum posts. It honestly makes people look quite immature when they can't handle the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 and yet you can negotiate for a raise, and look for higher paying jobs if you don't get one. Some people just take what they have and never ask for more, and they tend not to do as well as those who do ask and look for more. Please don't be upset by those of us who want more, and ask for it. This so much....if your happy with whatever some suit in an office decides you are worth.....then good for YOU. I know my value, and I've left/refused jobs who didn't at least attempt to meet get on my level. MY money has value, and if you don't value it enough to keep me informed then I'll give it to someone that does. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Companies who don't take into account customer expectations don't last long...just ask Capcom... And Bioware/EA is dead? They are out of business? News to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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