Will BioWare ever fix their lack of communication with regards to what's in the pipe?

[Drockter]

Nope....I paid for the game when I bought it at launch. I pay for a service every month....and I expect THEM to keep me informed of what's coming better than they have been if they want me to continue to pay for their service. No other company could get away with NOT giving information to customers. It's like a car company who's only advertisement is "it's bigger than last year's model! Here's a teaser trailer that only shows.....gasp! It's got wheels!

 

 

So excuse me if BW saying...just keep waiting, there's More info coming 26 seconds before we shut the servers down to install the expansion.... don't cut it wit me.

 

I am a paying customer as well. Pay every month, like you. Like many others. To be honest, I prefer the mystery. I prefer slow build up of information. They put out the trailer... is it a ton of new information... nope. Is it enough of a teaser to have me watch it a couple times and look at everything in the background... yup. Does it have me intrigued, yup.

 

How much information do you want released? How much do you need to know? Honestly?

[DarthDymond]

It seems that multiple forum-goers have the following opinions:

(1) Going for over a month between new info on the game is too long a gap.

(2) BW should have started hyping the new expansion more than three months before its release.

 

My question is: is there any evidence, one way or the other, as to the expectations/opinions of the non-forum crowd?

 

How many players post around here? A few hundred? A thousand? Lets go crazy and say that 5,000 players post on the forums regularly. We know that about 1,000,000 log into the game monthly, so that's 0.5% of the playerbase.

 

Now for a lot of things, sampling of a smaller portion of the whole is a perfectly valid way to get a picture of the full population's viewpoint. But that only works if you've got an unbiased, random sampling. With something like expectations of info releases, that seems like an area where forum-goers may not be a random sampling, and instead by a subset with a skewed viewpoint relative to the norm.

[Zoom_VI]

Yes - unlike other games on the market

 

You do realize there is only one single MMO on the western market that is bigger than SWTOR right? All these "other games" should be looking at what BW is doing not the reverse.

[collinc]

Do you frequent the same forums as the rest of us?

 

I agree with him. But sure, there is some backlash when BW makes bad calls. It's usually civil though. But there's nothing wrong with telling the company they're making a bad call. For instance in the last patch a couple of changes to classes they were going to do were unpopular with players. It was a bad change. So people gave negative reactions, as they should. And BW didn't make the changes. Which is good.

 

Understand that people are not simply asking for more, they're asking for more that's good. If 3.0 gets announced and there's 5 new planets, 8 new operations, 6 new warzones, 2 new classes, more gsf maps, another stronghold, all new storylines for each class, 3 new races, pazaak, with a firm release date of December 15th people will go crazy. In a good way.

 

If 3.0 is announced and it's 1 new daily area on Manaan and nothing else, and no release date, people will go crazy. In a very bad way. Even if 3.0 comes and it has all the things I said. Sure, then people will be happy. But for a while people will be pissed because they think they're only getting a daily area in Manaan.

 

And what we've seen in communication from them is the kind of vagueness and sheer silence that leads to people think the worst.

[ImmortalLowlife]

I am a paying customer as well. Pay every month, like you. Like many others. To be honest, I prefer the mystery. I prefer slow build up of information. They put out the trailer... is it a ton of new information... nope. Is it enough of a teaser to have me watch it a couple times and look at everything in the background... yup. Does it have me intrigued, yup.

 

How much information do you want released? How much do you need to know? Honestly?

 

I need more than "more info coming soon" and "just wait" which is all we've heard for months. If I want mystery, I'll read Sherlock Holmes. When I'm making a decision that will affect how I spend what little free time I have, I need specifics....I need details...my time is money. I don't like having either wasted.

[TUXs]

Except this isn't Walmart. Customers ask for many things and many of the things they ask for they are better off without.

This reply makes absolutely zero sense. Of course this isn't Walmart...Walmart sells groceries and deodorant...this is an entertainment product...actively developed and constantly produced entertainment that is meant to be enjoyed. Maybe you're better off without your own suggestions, but not mine. I believe in mine, which is why I suggest them.

[TUXs]

And what we've seen in communication from them is the kind of vagueness and sheer silence that leads to people think the worst.

Exactly!!! Silence breeds discontent. If they can't get excited about their own product, don't expect us to. The forums directly reflect the amount of attention they get from the Bioware staff...all game forums do.

[Drockter]

I need more than "more info coming soon" and "just wait" which is all we've heard for months. If I want mystery, I'll read Sherlock Holmes. When I'm making a decision that will affect how I spend what little free time I have, I need specifics....I need details...my time is money. I don't like having either wasted.

 

While we have heard the more info soon for months... is because we are asking well before they are ready to release the info. In the last couple months we had 2.9 (That had its own communication schedule), and 2.10 some more communication schedule. You don't mix messages in marketing. You don't want to release information about a future release, while you are still in a release cycle for something else. Otherwise you steal the thunder for the current "new" piece of about to be released content and Strongholds/Conquest would have not had an impact if everyone was talking (before release) about what comes next already. Even car companies, don't disclose too many model plans years in advance... why... because they don't want people to wait for two years to buy a new car).

 

If 2.9 or 2.10 wasnt for you, I understand... but doesn't mean they didnt happen, and they needed their own communication plan.

 

In the end, you are not the only person who invests time and money in this game. If you are truly that much on the fence that if they dont give you details on the next release is your decision point to unsub or not...then you should probably just go to preferred. No shame in that.

[collinc]

If they can't get excited about their own product, don't expect us to.

 

Exactly!!! It's like when a movie or game doesn't do a pre-screening for reviewers. Does that mean it's going to be bad? Of course not. Is that often the case? Yes. So when they hide it like this we compare it to all the other things that were hidden that let us down.

[DarthDymond]

Exactly!!! Silence breeds discontent. If they can't get excited about their own product, don't expect us to. The forums directly reflect the amount of attention they get from the Bioware staff...all game forums do.

They have not been silent.

 

They have been hyping Strongholds and Forged Alliances.

 

You don't hype Mockingjay Part 2 until after Mockingjay Part 1, even though principal photography is done for both.

Edited September 16, 2014 by DarthDymond

[collinc]

While we have heard the more info soon for months... is because we are asking well before they are ready to release the info.

 

Yeah and we're all saying that their timing for when they feel ready is terrible and counter productive.

 

And whose fault is it that they had to continue hyping strongholds for an extra 2 months? Certainly not the players faults. I bet if they had released strongholds with 2.8 they could have released that teaser a long time ago. Why didn't we get Manaan in 2.8 and Rakata in 2.9? Then the timing for this could have been a month ago. They've made a lot of mistakes, and it is fair to call them out on it. If they were more open with their players about whats going on we would be a lot more understanding. But they're not.

[Vandicus]

Exactly!!! Silence breeds discontent. If they can't get excited about their own product, don't expect us to. The forums directly reflect the amount of attention they get from the Bioware staff...all game forums do.

 

Accepting that idea would lead me to believe that higher involvement leads to more discontent and radicalism from experience on other forums(as that's how the two have correlated in my experience).

 

Using the sub-sample of Bioware forums as an example.

 

ME3 MP forums? Low dev involvement, almost non-existent discontent.

DA3 forums? Very high dev involvement, highest discontent/outrage/alarm etc. on any Bioware forums(our early SWTOR forums pale in comparison to the wrath of BSN)

SWTOR forums? Moderate dev involvement, moderate to low discontent

 

To a degree it makes sense that high involvement leads to greater appearance of discontent. If people who take issues with features of a game believe their voice might have meaning, they're more likely to post.

[TUXs]

They have not been silent.

 

They have been hyping Strongholds and Forged Alliances.

 

You don't hype Mockingjay Part 2 until after Mockingjay Part 1, even though principal photography is done for both.

They've been silent on when we can expect more of the content people had been playing for. I didn't make this end game Operation driven, they did. To let it stagnate for well over a year is ridiculous.

[collinc]

They have not been silent.

 

They have been hyping Strongholds and Forged Alliances.

 

You don't hype Mockingjay Part 2 until after Mockingjay Part 1, even though principal photography is done for both.

 

Bull. They have not been hyping strongholds. Not properly anyways. When it was supposed to be released to us in 2.8, we didn't even start getting details on it until after 2.8. We got little trailers here and there, but no understanding of how anything will work. I think it was 2 weeks or so before 2.9 launched that we finally got some details on conquests.

 

As far as your Mockinjay part 1 and 2 comparison goes, it does not work. Strongholds and 3.0 are two very different products aimed at different players. Sure there is some overlap, but not much. It's more like refusing to release info on the next Game of Thrones book until a little companion book that explains some older lore and locations is released. I'm sure there would be plenty of people excited for that book, but it has little to do with the actual series.

[TUXs]

Accepting that idea would lead me to believe that higher involvement leads to more discontent and radicalism from experience on other forums(as that's how the two have correlated in my experience).

 

Using the sub-sample of Bioware forums as an example.

 

ME3 MP forums? Low dev involvement, almost non-existent discontent.

DA3 forums? Very high dev involvement, highest discontent/outrage/alarm etc. on any Bioware forums(our early SWTOR forums pale in comparison to the wrath of BSN)

SWTOR forums? Moderate dev involvement, moderate to low discontent

 

To a degree it makes sense that high involvement leads to greater appearance of discontent. If people who take issues with features of a game believe their voice might have meaning, they're more likely to post.

MMO forums. Only SWTOR is an MMO on that list.

[Darth_Wicked]

They've been silent on when we can expect more of the content people had been playing for. I didn't make this end game Operation driven, they did. To let it stagnate for well over a year is ridiculous.

 

It hasn't been a full year since Dread Fortress and its lesser sibling were released.

 

We'll get there pretty soon though.

[collinc]

It hasn't been a full year since Dread Fortress and its lesser sibling were released.

 

We'll get there pretty soon though.

 

Yeah it's in like 2 weeks

[TUXs]

It hasn't been a full year since Dread Fortress and its lesser sibling were released.

 

We'll get there pretty soon though.

 

I didn't say we were over a year already, but by the time we get a new one, we'll have eclipsed it.

[Vandicus]

MMO forums. Only SWTOR is an MMO on that list.

 

I'll admit I haven't spent nearly as much time on MMO forums as those of non-MMO games.

 

Only other one I was one recently was the ESO forums, which admittedly had low dev communication and high discontent, although I would figure most of that would be attributable to ESO's crippling issues at the time(idk if they were actually fixed).

 

Ultimately I believe communication pleases some people and upsets others. Those who learn that something they don't like is being worked on(like the complaints regarding GSF and GSH) are upset and create threads about it, whereas some create threads about how they're pleased.

 

In essence, higher communication creates greater discussion(positive and negative), but doesn't necessarily lead to, shall we say, a more civil environment. That last bit is largely on the community and who ends up being their long-standing members.

 

That's my theory anyways.

[DarthDymond]

They've been silent on when we can expect more of the content people had been playing for. I didn't make this end game Operation driven, they did. To let it stagnate for well over a year is ridiculous.

To start with, I find the 12-14 month gap between new SM/HM Operations to be one of the unequivocal mistakes that BW has made (up there with releasing the game without Group Finder). I am not defending that decision at all.

 

That said, I don't know that I agree that they "[made] this end game Operation driven." These FPs are all level 55-only. I don't necessarily think it is a smart move, but I think their mindset has actually been to not have an endgame = Operations standard, and instead they consider Tactical FPs to be meaningful max-level content.

 

As far as your Mockinjay part 1 and 2 comparison goes, it does not work. Strongholds and 3.0 are two very different products aimed at different players. Sure there is some overlap, but not much. It's more like refusing to release info on the next Game of Thrones book until a little companion book that explains some older lore and locations is released. I'm sure there would be plenty of people excited for that book, but it has little to do with the actual series.

You may think that Strongholds is the Silmarillion, but its clear that BW thinks it was The Two Towers. There marketing strategy is in keeping with that idea. (Wonder how many more "book trilogies that have been made into blockbuster movie series" analogies I can squeeze into this thread.)

Edited September 16, 2014 by DarthDymond

[collinc]

You may think that Strongholds is the Simarillion, but its clear that BW thinks it was The Two Towers. There marketing strategy is in keeping with that idea.

 

Well....they're just stupid jerks then.

[ZionHalcyon]

It hasn't been a full year since Dread Fortress and its lesser sibling were released.

 

We'll get there pretty soon though.

 

Been well over a year since Makeb though

[ZionHalcyon]

I didn't say we were over a year already, but by the time we get a new one, we'll have eclipsed it.

 

Is the same handful of people making the same excuses

[TUXs]

That said, I don't know that I agree that they "[made] this end game Operation driven." These FPs are all level 55-only. I don't necessarily think it is a smart move, but I think their mindset has actually been to not have an endgame = Operations standard, and instead they consider Tactical FPs to be meaningful max-level content.

The FPs were great to tell a story, but I can't agree that there was anything else meaningful about them...they were far too easy, dropped worthless gear, had no rep (other than KDY) and provided no reward of value for the time invested in them. If they're trying to avoid end game content, they're doing it wrong.

 

Please don't misread what I'm saying as dissing what we have received, I love GSF and GSH (guild ships actually), but that's not the content people have been asking for. I just feel they need to better pace their traditional content releases. Heck, even a new daily area would be welcome right now...

[Darth_Wicked]

Been well over a year since Makeb though

 

And your point is...? None I guess.

 

Is the same handful of people making the same excuses

 

No one is making excuses. Least of all me.