Strongholds = Kill Small Guilds

[Infernixx]

Without going into details, my own guild is getting inundated with requests to join the guild due to how we're doing consistently on the Leader Boards.

 

So, the new recruiting policy is that we only invite people in who say that they're going to strongly contribute to Conquest. If they don't make a strong showing, they get removed before the end of Sunday. And they're all told this when they get a guild invite. We have someone who keeps track of Conquest points within the guild. We also have a special rank within the guild for those who contribute the most Conquest points. Saturday and Sundays are spent doing EC NiM to get Avalanche tanks and rare Decorations for the highest contributors.

 

And we're a smallish guild with about 20 active players. The people that are joining(and not getting booted later) are those players who want to put forth solid effort for a guild and have it matter. It's a regular thing now, hearing new recruits fuming about how they put in all this effort and the rest of their guild puts forth only enough effort to get the weekly goal.

 

Basically, Guild Conquest is a seismic event causing a radical shifting of the players from old guilds to new guilds. None of which should be surprising since this is 'the' content we have to do until the new expansion comes along.

[MSchuyler]

I really do enjoy this strongholds, one of the best concepts I have seen in MMO. Unfortunately this is really killing smaller guilds or those looking to build up. I have lost at least 6 people only because we lacked a flagship. So is strongholds forcing to have one guild on the server? It really is not fair and killing the balance of what is offered. There should be many options for a player to join a guild, we are all human and think differently and having a variety of guilds gives options to players. I think the concept is great, not saying it should be easy to gain a flagship but I know I am not the only facing this.

 

Quite obviously, those six people were seeking something more from a guild than yours is offering. If your guild is boring or doesn't put forth the effort, then people will leave for more excitement elsewhere. The thing is, players have been clamoring for guild ships for literally years. It was an obvious general request from the players. You could have read it on these forums every day for months on end, "When can we get guild ships? When can we get player housing?" And quite a few guilds put forth enough effort to buy a starship on the very first day.

 

So now we have them and you're saying, "Woe is me!" See how Bioware can never win? No matter what they do, including give what has been asked, people will complain. The fact is that the dynamics of guilds have changed. It's a whole new ballgame. Adapt or die. You can remain as you are, and if you do you won't be participating in starship-like activities. Which is just fine. You don't have to, but don't begrudge people who do.

[ikinai]

Harry Nilsson, ftw

 

That's the way it is.

[Jeweledleah]

I don't think strongholds are killing small guilds. they are killing guilds that are merely a collection of players who are only guilded for the guild benefits and not becasue they like people they are guilded with and/or getting their playing needs filled while in their guild. people leave guilds due to progression level all the time. sometimes partially, sometimes fully. people leave guilds becasue they clashed with someone. people leave guilds becasue they wanted to be around more, active players. strongholds didn't change that.

 

on the contrary for quite a few guilds, strongholds brought their players closer together (at least they did for the guilds I'm part of, and no I didn't notice any increased conquest based recruitment. not counting real life friends sanctuary both my guilds are raiding guilds and they recruit only based on whether the person joining is planning on running ops with us. and no one is forced to contribute quotas to conquest, though we are as a guild motivated to at least placed, becasue - guild pride )

Edited September 11, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[DarthTHC]

Perhaps others have quit their guild (or the game) since they formed their guild. Your assumption that they gamed the system may not be just incorrect, but also offensive. If the game didn't consider them a guild, it would disband them once they fell below ## unique accounts.

 

Based on the content of the post I responded to, I doubt your assumption is accurate. Will be interesting to see if they refute my assertion.

 

Don't confuse a "hole" in the code with the game supporting a particular definition of "guild". It does no harm to not code an auto-disband, as long as the developers don't cater to "guilds" of less than 4 unique accounts as real guilds.

Edited September 11, 2014 by DarthTHC

[TUXs]

Don't confuse a "hole" in the code with the game supporting a particular definition of "guild". It does no harm to not code an auto-disband, as long as the developers don't cater to "guilds" of less than 4 unique accounts as real guilds.

I can accept that as a reason it's not in the game. But come on, until 2.9, there was absolutely no reason to even be in a guild other than a less cluttered chat...do you really think there's any fear that Bioware will somehow start catering to small guilds? They do no harm and I can appreciate players wanting to keep things small if that's what they like...where's the harm in 2-player guilds?

[Max_Killjoy]

I had a guild fall in my lap because the previous boss stopped logging in due to illness. There are just a few of us who log on now, as said leader was the force driving membership and participation.

 

In that leader's absence, I've still established a guild headquarters on DK, and at relatively minor expense outfitted it with the full suite of utility decos and some basic atmospheric decos.

 

1) I feel like it will make any recruiting we do easier, given the location and utility.

2) It will be a nice thing for the old leader to see if they ever come back.

3) I wanted to do it.

 

There's no need to join a big guild to have a guild HQ or a nice personal Stronghold.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[DawnAskham]

Guilds have many reasons to exist, and none of us knows why or for what reasons some of these smaller guilds (or even larger guilds) that are losing people were originally formed.

 

Making statements that disparage these guilds saying they are not real guilds, have little to no social connections, are boring, have no purpose, are only formed by people with egos that want to 'own' their own guild, etc is petty and insulting.

 

Conquest is a NEW feature that is highly dependent upon guilds and more importantly, guilds with numbers.

 

Until a few weeks ago, it did not exist.

 

Now that it does, players in guilds of all sizes have to ask themselves how important guild ships and Conquest are to their play style, game goals, and personal enjoyment.

 

Some are not going to care, at all, either about conquest or about guild ships.

 

Some are going to fall into the 'omg guild ships!!!!' category but may be ambivalent about conquest.

 

Some are going to be highly focused on 'winning' conquest and see the ship as just the cost of participation.

 

Many will most likely fall somewhere between the examples above.

 

My point is that players have been given a new feature, and are deciding how important this feature is to their enjoyment of the game.

 

Those that find it highly important yet are in guilds full of people (a few or many, doesn't matter) that don't care about conquest are going to leave and seek out like minded people.

 

Nothing about that should come as a surprise to anyone.

 

However, individuals moving to larger guilds to be able to fully participate in conquest should not be seen as proof that smaller guilds are somehow inferior, bad, boring, full of egomaniacs, build on no social connections, etc.

 

Rather, it should be seen as an indictment of the system itself in not providing any kind of tiered approach that would allow smaller guilds an equal opportunity to fully participate in conquest.

 

Of course even with a tiered system, there would still be a lot of movement between guilds as some are going to want to focus heavily on conquest while others will not, and it is only natural that players end up grouping with people who share similar interests and goals.

 

Give it time, things will settle.

Edited September 11, 2014 by DawnAskham

[Grayseven]

What is wrong with your small cabal of real life, long time friends disbanding your small personal guild and joining en mass in a larger guild?

 

I'd actually prefer to recruit a small group like that because I know I could build around it, using them as the nucleus of a new OP's group or Arena team or whatever. In time they can form relationships with others within the guild and before you know it you now have a much larger group of friends.

 

Maybe small guilds need to be killed. Maybe calling a handful of players a guild is a bit misleading. Just because you are called a guild doesn't mean you should be competitive in guild related events such as Conquest.

 

And players need change. Maybe Joe Forcewielder only wanted a smallish guild but then outgrew it, realizing that his needs are better met by a larger guild that can accomplish larger goals. It's hard to blame just Conquest for the woes of a smaller guild when most of those woes are caused by the simple fact that they are a smaller guild.

[ikinai]

I like big guilds I cannot lie

All you other guildies can't deny

That when a big guild walks into a room,

it goes BOOM BOOM BOOM

guildies got back!

[Lunafox]

2 person guild? That's just pathetic. You are not a guild.

 

I'm a guild. I made it, with my toons, and my husband's toon. I don't need anything from anyone, least of all to be judged by you.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Lunafox

[Bluejayoo]

I really do enjoy this strongholds, one of the best concepts I have seen in MMO. Unfortunately this is really killing smaller guilds or those looking to build up..

 

I think this is completely intentional. Prior to this expansion there was NO REASON to deal with the additional work of having a large guild. The server was filled with tiny guilds of 3 and 4 people (I have no idea how many, but I personally ran into a bunch).

 

I am guessing that weeding out the large number of tiny guilds and providing some incentive for people to form large organizations was one of the motivations behind conquests. I prefer it this way. You can still make a tiny guild if you want, but now there is some incentive to make large guilds and that has added a ton of interest to the game.

[LegoUniverseBC]

How do Strongholds kill guilds? Strongholds aren't even that important to guilds.

I assume you are complaining about Flagships though.

[JattaGin]

If anything, the (not so?) small (approx. 20 people) guild I am in with my main got closer together after Stronghold got released. None of us thought a second about leaving for a bigger guild. We even made it to the Conquest top 10 once, but it was a lot of hard work.

 

I don't think Strongholds will have a big effect on small guilds. Who wants to be in an anonymous 300 people guild anway? Just lemmings, followers and betas. --> Just my opinion.

[ArielaKnight]

What is wrong with your small cabal of real life, long time friends disbanding your small personal guild and joining en mass in a larger guild?

 

I'd actually prefer to recruit a small group like that because I know I could build around it, using them as the nucleus of a new OP's group or Arena team or whatever. In time they can form relationships with others within the guild and before you know it you now have a much larger group of friends.

 

Maybe small guilds need to be killed. Maybe calling a handful of players a guild is a bit misleading. Just because you are called a guild doesn't mean you should be competitive in guild related events such as Conquest.

 

And players need change. Maybe Joe Forcewielder only wanted a smallish guild but then outgrew it, realizing that his needs are better met by a larger guild that can accomplish larger goals. It's hard to blame just Conquest for the woes of a smaller guild when most of those woes are caused by the simple fact that they are a smaller guild.

 

I disagree with you. Small guilds should not be killed. Some of them are actually not complaining. I know the one I am has yet to complain (1) about the price of guildships (2) price of strongholds (and we have one ) (3) Conquests. We enjoy our small-medium guild and we do recruit but we don't recruit just to recruit. The guild I am in has rules and in the 2-3 years that we have had this guild (since launch) we have had no drama or power plays. We work together as a team, and that is something you don't always find.

 

I been in large guilds and every time I logged in there was someone arguing or fighting over something. It got to the point that I had to leave and I played the rest of my time on SWG without a guild as I was not about to deal with that in a game.

Edited September 11, 2014 by ArielaKnight

[ArielaKnight]

2 person guild? That's just pathetic. You are not a guild.

 

Maybe they like small guilds and don't want to deal with all the drama and fighting that happens in large guilds. Don't tell me they don't I was in large guilds on SWG and all they did was fight or create drama so never again will I join a large guild.

[Infernixx]

Maybe they like small guilds and don't want to deal with all the drama and fighting that happens in large guilds. Don't tell me they don't I was in large guilds on SWG and all they did was fight or create drama so never again will I join a large guild.

 

Drama happens in small guilds, too. It depends on the guild leadership as to whether or not the drama has a severe impact on the guild.

[ArielaKnight]

Drama happens in small guilds, too. It depends on the guild leadership as to whether or not the drama has a severe impact on the guild.

 

Yes it is possible to happen in small guilds but the one I have been in since launch it hasn't. I base my opinion on what I have experienced and for me the large guild I was in (on SWG) was constantly filled with drama and fighting and I wasn't going to join another guild because of it but I found the guild I was in and it wasn't huge (20-40 members I think) and yet they are courteous, helpful, they care about me and no fighting and drama so from my experience I rather be in a small guild like that than a large one.

[Lunafox]

Maybe they like small guilds and don't want to deal with all the drama and fighting that happens in large guilds. Don't tell me they don't I was in large guilds on SWG and all they did was fight or create drama so never again will I join a large guild.

 

Exactly. I've been the guild leader of medium and large guilds, in different games, and there is always BS, always some conflict to mediate, and people who become your enemy, 'if you don't see things their way'. I don't need that crap. I'm quite happy with my 22 alts, and my hubby's 5 or 6 alts, in our two person guild. No drama, all fun. Never going to take on a large guild ever again. I have a handful of friends that if they wanted to play here, I'd take them, but they're happy elsewhere.

[Callaron]

Drama happens in small guilds, too. It depends on the guild leadership as to whether or not the drama has a severe impact on the guild.

 

Only when it's not actually the leadership doing it, Infernixx.

I recently joined a large guild on one of my alts for the Conquests. Right on time to watch the leadership tear each other apart and split the guild in two when a bunch of them left and took a lot of people with them.

 

Not the first time I've seen it happen either.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, good guild leaders are pretty damn hard to find. Be grateful when you actually get some.

[Grayseven]

I disagree with you. Small guilds should not be killed. Some of them are actually not complaining. I know the one I am has yet to complain (1) about the price of guildships (2) price of strongholds (and we have one ) (3) Conquests. We enjoy our small-medium guild and we do recruit but we don't recruit just to recruit. The guild I am in has rules and in the 2-3 years that we have had this guild (since launch) we have had no drama or power plays. We work together as a team, and that is something you don't always find.

 

I been in large guilds and every time I logged in there was someone arguing or fighting over something. It got to the point that I had to leave and I played the rest of my time on SWG without a guild as I was not about to deal with that in a game.

 

The handful of small guilds not complaining are overshadowed by the handful of small guilds complaining.

 

If you enjoy your small guild, great, as long as you don't expect what all of these people whining about small guilds expect, which is to compete at the level of larger guilds.

 

I am blessed to be in a large guild that is getting larger but which has never once faced the drama I've seen in guilds across other games. Probably because the guild does not recruit any random person yelling LF Guild in chat. Most of our recruits come from people we run across while playing who we feel may be a good fit. One of the officers speaks with them, lays down the rules (we have only a few but they are inviolate) and if the officer feels the person is a good fit we give them a probationary run.

 

While I believe that the current Conquest system is flawed and biased towards the handful of mega guilds, I also do not expect "guilds" of 2 to 8 accounts to compete even if the bias is somehow mitigated. In truth, I feel the system is so flawed as to be unfixable without angering major portions of the player base, but that is another story.

 

It will come down to whether or not your small guild is worth being in or if moving to a large guild is a better choice. The Guildship is fluff, completely unnecessary to play even Conquest and if someone feels they need a guild with a shot at one then they aren't meant for small guilds that may miss out. Small guilds are better off without those types of players.

 

But don't expect to compete. Don't expect to have a fair shot at a planet. Small means you just don't have the people to compete and to expect otherwise is futile. Just wait until the large guilds start suffering burnout and stop trying. As grindy as this system is, it will happen.

[Layno_Maul]

Don't care. It's an MMORPG.

Maybe you people will drop the ego and stop trying to form your own guild for selfish reasons and join up for something greater. We've added about 20 accounts to our guild and everyone is so much happier that they are part of our Massive guild.

 

We don't CARE how much people you have in your guild.

And 20 people is not massive...

[Foambreaker]

It comes down the guild conquest rewards; if you are in a guild with a ship that is on the top 10 which this week is top 50, you get double rewards for doing the exact same thing.

 

That top 10 gets double individual rewards was a mistake, if they wanted to reward the guilds they should have made the rewards guild rewards.

 

Individuals should not get different rewards for the exact same effort just because the guild they are in has more or less members.

 

This especially undermines RP which is typically made up of many small themed guilds.

[davezero]

I have a small guild (maybe 16 or 17 unique accounts) and we did lose a number of players to guilds that already have their Flagships. It doesn't bother me that much, I now know who is loyal and will continue to work on obtaining our own Flagship. Yes some small guilds will die. It's a part of the game. Guilds come and go.

[Khevar]

This especially undermines RP which is typically made up of many small themed guilds.

Explain to me how an RP guild would find grinding Conquest points important? This is a serious question -- I'm not trying to troll you.

 

If a guild was able to RP before 2.9, they can keep doing the same thing they were before.

 

If an RP guild was dissatisfied with what the game offered them, how on Earth would "do lots of warzones, grind flashpoints, do lowbie heroics and craft supplies" make them happy?

 

I cannot remotely see how Conquests should be balanced around RP.