The Scam/Not a Scam debate storyline

[TUXs]

The game should not hold people's hands to prevent their own stupidity. People call something a scam when they are too lazy to read prices. Yet again.

 

if someone is dumb enough to not read prices, they deserve to lose credits.

 

Ah! Blame the victim of course lol. Something tells me you're one of the scammers huh?

 

Thankfully, Bioware is more interested in protecting the good players of this game than they are the filth who abuse systems to cheat others.

[Brewski]

The 5 minute time frame others have suggested seems reasonable.

 

Nothing in SWTOR moves continuously, so to take advantage of the 5 minute window you'd need to know someone was making large purchases at that moment. Even then, you'd be competing with the purchaser to try and pick up items faster than he can, and your margin won't necessarily increase by a huge amount(because most people buying mats to craft with in large quantities have an idea of what they need to pay to make credits by crafting, and so won't go beyond that).

 

 

Though yes, this is most likely harder to implement than the others. GTN is in need of an overhaul in a number of areas though. If they get around to making significant changes to it I'd hope this would be one of them(as well as the accompanying 5 minute window post-listing where you can check your price listings before they go live).

5 minutes may be reasonable, especially if a lockout is added for overusing it. Even so, someone will complain about the timer and/or limits on returns.

 

So I guess my point is, a complex system involving returns, however well designed is bound to be complex to implement and controversial no matter how it's done. That's why I think it should be considered only after the easier changes are made. ("Low hanging fruit" is the buzz phrase of the day I think.)

[Theeko]

Its not the fact that your listing stacks of legit items for legit prices its how people are listing stacks of 2-5 mats for millions that look like the lowest cost but it really isn't

[azudelphi]

Its not the fact that your listing stacks of legit items for legit prices its how people are listing stacks of 2-5 mats for millions that look like the lowest cost but it really isn't

 

If you sort by unit price, how could those 2-5 mats for millions ever be read correctly as the lowest cost?

[Brewski]

Since everyone seems to be saying buyers are scamming and no one wants to explain how they have proof (and I mean absolute proof that action can be taken against and not suspicions) a person is scamming and everyone seems to ignore my posts when I ask how what I list is that difficult I am going to try again to see if people are going to ignore my posts once again and if so then I know that all they want is someone to take responsibility for their actions instead of them being responsible for their actions.

You seem to be taking this very personally. There's no one here who can reply to every post by every poster. You need to relax a bit.

 

10 Universal PreFab M-3 Unit Price- 59,999.99 Total Price 599,999.90

 

10 Mk-9 Augment Tool Kits Unit Price $49,999.99 Total Price $499,999.90

You can't list them that way. The total listing price has to be a full credit value, it can't include decimals. The only place decimals exist is in the "price per unit" field for stackable items.

[ScarletBlaze]

Deleted. Edited November 11, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[azudelphi]

I guess you forgot the fees the GTN takes out of the final cost then? I never get the total price as there are fees associated with the item.

 

Total price will never have fractions of a credit.

 

GTN fee is 6%. It will never give fractions of a credit to the player.

 

To that point, he is correct.

[Theeko]

If you sort by unit price, how could those 2-5 mats for millions ever be read correctly as the lowest cost?

 

Use Credit filter to 100-150k max. Then it will block out all listings above that # including "High Unit prices" cause its not about the unit price, its the maximum price it filters. So if it filters the maximum, the unit price is void.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Ah! Blame the victim of course lol. Something tells me you're one of the scammers huh?

 

Thankfully, Bioware is more interested in protecting the good players of this game than they are the filth who abuse systems to cheat others.

 

Really TUXs? I expect it from other users but have some sense. Just because someone think BW shouldn't handhold people because of stupidity does not mean they are scammers.

[ScarletBlaze]

You seem to be taking this very personally. There's no one here who can reply to every post by every poster. You need to relax a bit.

 

 

You can't list them that way. The total listing price has to be a full credit value, it can't include decimals. The only place decimals exist is in the "price per unit" field for stackable items.

 

My point was that it seems everyone wants to blame the seller for scamming, yet they don't have proof and if there was actual proof then take it to BW where they could do something.

 

I have made mistakes in buying items before but I took responsibility for my own actions.

[azudelphi]

Use Credit filter to 100-150k max. Then it will block out all listings above that # including "High Unit prices" cause its not about the unit price, its the maximum price it filters. So if it filters the maximum, the unit price is void.

 

I will be totally honest, this is completely irrelevant to what I asked...

 

Yes, you can filter out all high end total costs. Yes, you can sort by price per unit within whatever subset of data you have. That doesn't answer my question how 2-5 mats posted for several million could legitimately be misinterpreted as the cheapest?

[Brewski]

The game should not hold people's hands to prevent their own stupidity. People call something a scam when they are too lazy to read prices. Yet again.

 

if someone is dumb enough to not read prices, they deserve to lose credits.

Although everyone (even Bioware) agrees that ultimate responsibility for any purchase resides with the purchaser, that does not abdicate Bioware of its responsibility to provide reasonable protections where it can. The current GTN interface allows for users to easily misrepresent pricing in a way that it is more likely potential buyers will be caught unaware.

 

It should not be controversial to suggest that Bioware can make some rather simple modifications to make this practice harder to pull off intentionally.

[azudelphi]

Although everyone (even Bioware) agrees that ultimate responsibility for any purchase resides with the purchaser, that does not abdicate Bioware of its responsibility to provide reasonable protections where it can. The current GTN interface allows for users to easily misrepresent pricing in a way that it is more likely potential buyers will be caught unaware.

 

It should not be controversial to suggest that Bioware can make some rather simple modifications to make this practice harder to pull off intentionally.

 

The problem is that the issue comes from people flat out not reading. If they can't be bothered to read, all efforts Bioware could make are unimportant.

[ArielaKnight]

Although everyone (even Bioware) agrees that ultimate responsibility for any purchase resides with the purchaser, that does not abdicate Bioware of its responsibility to provide reasonable protections where it can. The current GTN interface allows for users to easily misrepresent pricing in a way that it is more likely potential buyers will be caught unaware.

 

It should not be controversial to suggest that Bioware can make some rather simple modifications to make this practice harder to pull off intentionally.

 

And that gives the buyers the right to accuse the sellers of scamming them and excuse them for not paying attention to what they are buying? When are the buyers going to grow up and pay attention to what they are doing or are they going to keep blaming the sellers of scamming because they don't want to have anything to do with take their own responsibility when it is so easy to blame someone else.

[Smuglebunny]

You didnt get scammed. You made a mistake.

 

YOU

 

made a mistake.

 

the baby wah wah hold my hand generation. sickening.

 

blame the victim? YOU ARENT A VICTIM!!!

 

YOU MADE AN ERROR..YOU YOU YOU YOU made an error.

 

Stop blaming anyone BUT the "victim" in this case.

 

I saw those prices and immediately thought, glitch. or hmm thats weird and didnt buy it cuz I have skull fillings.

 

Pretty darn funny to see the under-brained cry for protection instaid of NOT MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE!!!

 

Could you just realize that people put prices like that and, you know, pay attention? Instaid of asking a company to change things to prevent you from hurting yourself like a toddler.

 

Pretty sad. Humans continue to de-evolve.

 

"Life" is gonna hit people calling this a scam, hard. real hard.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Smuglebunny

[TUXs]

Really TUXs? I expect it from other users but have some sense. Just because someone think BW shouldn't handhold people because of stupidity does not mean they are scammers.

I think Bioware needs to improve the sorting options of the GTN UI - that's what players are taking advantage of. And yes "really"...I always come down on the side of decent players Reno.

[TUXs]

You didnt get scammed. You made a mistake.

 

YOU

 

made a mistake.

 

the baby wah wah hold my hand generation. sickening.

 

blame the victim? YOU ARENT A VICTIM!!!

 

YOU MADE AN ERROR..YOU YOU YOU YOU made an error.

 

Stop blaming anyone BUT the "victim" in this case.

 

I saw those prices and immediately thought, glitch. or hmm thats weird and didnt buy it cuz I have skull fillings.

 

Pretty darn funny to see the under-brained cry for protection instaid of NOT MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE!!!

 

Could you just realize that people put prices like that and, you know, pay attention? Instaid of asking a company to change things to prevent you from hurting yourself like a toddler.

 

Pretty sad. Humans continue to de-evolve.

 

"Life" is gonna hit people calling this a scam, hard. real hard.

Great policy of yours...defend the scammers.

 

I'm not suggesting that buyers aren't ultimately responsible, but with a few simple tweaks to the UI they can make scamming people far more difficult.

 

It's sadder when humans begin to defend unethical behavior.

[Theeko]

I will be totally honest, this is completely irrelevant to what I asked...

 

Yes, you can filter out all high end total costs. Yes, you can sort by price per unit within whatever subset of data you have. That doesn't answer my question how 2-5 mats posted for several million could legitimately be misinterpreted as the cheapest?

 

Oh, they try and copy the exact price or close to it say the cheapest stack is 180,000 they'll then list 2 for 1,800,000.23 whatever to make it look like the smallest price.

[azudelphi]

Oh, they try and copy the exact price or close to it say the cheapest stack is 180,000 they'll then list 2 for 1,800,000.23 whatever to make it look like the smallest price.

 

1,800,000.23 =/= 180,000. Reading the total prices should be a big red flag not to make the purchase.

 

Also, if you sort by price per unit, those two wouldn't be right next to each other...

 

Basically, I have little sympathy for someone who ignores:

1. Price per unit

2. Total price

3. Price displayed in the confirmation window

 

Quite frankly, if those 3 steps aren't enough to prevent a player from making a dumb purchase, then anything Bioware can do won't be enough to help that player...

Edited November 11, 2014 by azudelphi

[Theeko]

1,800,000.23 =/= 180,000.

 

Also, if you sort by price per unit, those two wouldn't be right next to each other...

 

I know but some people say they are "Tired" and stuff but "accidently" i guess sort by the highest to lowest, and they think that's the lowest price without filtering the credit cost

[Cidanel]

Ah! Blame the victim of course lol. Something tells me you're one of the scammers huh?

 

Thankfully, Bioware is more interested in protecting the good players of this game than they are the filth who abuse systems to cheat others.

 

There are no 'victims'. There are people who might think they got a bad deal, but that is what you deal with when using an open market.

 

There are no 'good players and bad players' here, and no one is being cheated. Why do you keep defending the lazy?

 

And I have never scammed anyone. I do though, absolutely try to get the most credits possible on the GTN. The GTN is simply another form of PvP.

[ScarletBlaze]

Oh, they try and copy the exact price or close to it say the cheapest stack is 180,000 they'll then list 2 for 1,800,000.23 whatever to make it look like the smallest price.

 

Even if I was tired I could see the difference

 

Between 1,800,000.23 and 180,000

 

Just by paying attention a simple fact is there is 2 commas which makes one higher than the other.

[azudelphi]

I know but some people say they are "Tired" and stuff but "accidently" i guess sort by the highest to lowest, and they think that's the lowest price without filtering the credit cost

 

May seem harsh, but too bad...

 

I think the people who make those predatory posts are the worst kind of people. But those are all just excuses...

[Brewski]

My point was that it seems everyone wants to blame the seller for scamming, yet they don't have proof and if there was actual proof then take it to BW where they could do something.

 

I have made mistakes in buying items before but I took responsibility for my own actions.

 

You are right that no ones intent can be determined by a single (or even several) GTN listings. I have fat fingered listings before and posted things at prices that were far too high, and I've done the reverse by accidentally listing items at their base cost. I would not want to be judged a scammer based on that kind of thing.

 

Ultimately, Bioware agrees with you on this, and that's more or less their point. In order to absolutely judge someone as a "scammer" you would need either an admission of guilt, or a pattern of behavior over time that you could judge. The former is unlikely, and the later is too resource intensive, and thus they have said they can't (and won't) police the behavior.

 

That said, it does not take away from a need to make reasonable and easy changes to the system to prevent users from intentionally (or even accidentally) pricing things in a way that would mislead others into overpaying.

[_NovaBlast_]

The game should not hold people's hands to prevent their own stupidity. People call something a scam when they are too lazy to read prices. Yet again.

 

if someone is dumb enough to not read prices, they deserve to lose credits.

 

+!

 

Ah! Blame the victim of course lol. Something tells me you're one of the scammers huh?

 

Thankfully, Bioware is more interested in protecting the good players of this game than they are the filth who abuse systems to cheat others.

 

There are no victims to blame. There are only victims of their own stupidity and incompetence

 

Those of us who put the proper care and attention into what we are doing never have issues .

Edited November 11, 2014 by _NovaBlast_