The Scam/Not a Scam debate storyline

[LyraineAlei]

:confused::confused:

 

I sense a comment here, and I'm dead blind to the Force. Was there a comment, or are you just expressing your exasperation as to how long this topic has gone on?

[dscount]

Bioware - Please just fix the FIRST SEARCH to work properly.

Problem solved. Today the first search is netting the scamming morons that put the decimals on purpose. If the LOWEST Unit or Total cost is presorted the first time correctly its not an issue.

Edited November 11, 2014 by dscount

[anonnn]

Needs a bump...

 

So Bioware, are we going to get this fixed? Multiple suggestions on how to fix this have been posted...

 

You have unhappy customers...

 

I haven't had any major GTN "accidents" myself, however I can very easily imagine how upsetting it would be to have lost millions trying to make an accurate GTN purchase and then having to debate this issue in the midst of the pervasive inane agenda of trying to shut the thread down just to silence it.

 

Lemme tell ya, it's not a good sign when so many people are willing to throw in to a sociopathic momentum of ignoring that people are getting totally screwed out of insanely huge amounts of credits just trying to make a routine purchase.

 

Here's a couple of dictionary.com links to help you classify these people's behavior:

 

fanatical : motivated or characterized by an extreme, uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

 

uncritical : undiscriminating; not applying or not guided by the standards of analysis

[Heat-Wave]

... Did you miss the yellow post? Right up where it says "First BioWare Post".

 

And my original thread was an archive. I think we are all done arguing over scam/not a scam and the like.

 

All that's left now is interpretation of the yellow post.

 

Nope, didn't miss it...

 

Clearly they do not feel that prior behavior is really an issue.

 

So this has become an appeal to make it one going forward.

 

Customers are unhappy, this is one way to let Bioware know this.

[Heat-Wave]

Bioware - Please just fix the FIRST SEARCH to work properly.

Problem solved. Today the first search is netting the scamming morons that put the decimals on purpose. If the LOWEST Unit or Total cost is presorted the first time correctly its not an issue.

 

^ This...

 

If the whole search defaults to lowest price first, 99% of this issue goes away.

[Vandicus]

There's nothing to fix since there's nothing broken. Does it need a change? Perhaps, but to say that something is broken when it isn't is not the way to go.

 

As has been stated many times here: buyers aren't being careful for reasons like they've "been playing all day and are tired". They have no problem blaming someone else for their mistake and demanding a "fix" but will gladly "scam" a seller who had also been playing all day and is tired and forgot a zero so their item sold for 80000 instead of the 800000 it should have been.

 

The hypocrisy on this topic is sadly amazing.

 

There's no option to reverse a buy order on the GTN(while there is an option to remove a sell order). There's also a huge difference between trying to gull people and passively purchasing things on the GTN.

 

That being said the GTN design leaves much to be desired from both buyer and seller perspective. It ought function more like a matching system, which would dramatically reduce time spent comparing prices on the GTN and wait time on sales. Furthermore, it'd allow would-be buyers to communicate interest in items that rarely show up on the market anymore(partially because any would-be sellers would need to relist for a couple weeks and then need to start a dialogue with a buyer if buyers don't want to play listed price).

 

Inefficient markets are detrimental to everyone. More specifically, driving off players who purchase crafting goods en masse(with which there is nothing else to do besides craft items and sell them to the player base) for the sake of profiting a few people who are too lazy to actually produce large numbers of mats(which is incredibly easy and is done passively while playing the game) is bad for the game's health.

 

Any single scammer attempting to deceive people with their pricing most likely harms multiple players, players who most likely contribute to a higher degree than normal to the game community because of their involvement in buying materials and crafting gear for player use.

 

On a side note, they also need to make it possible to browse the GTN. With the long ago addition of the 3 letter search parameter, its become more difficult for players to find something if they don't already know the name of what they're looking for. When you need to go out of game to find the name of level appropriate gear because the GTN doesn't allow browsing by practical search parameters, many players will simply not bother.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[Deewe]

Hey folks,

 

There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios.

 

What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for.

 

When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want.

 

With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

Never been scammed, but can't stress enough how it can happen to anyone and it can totally ruin the game play experience of someone.

 

To your post I'd reply, we already know everything you mentioned.

 

Now contrary to what you are saying very simple algorithm could easily find scammers posts among others, first they use decimals, then the stacks contains very few items and finally the difference between the posted price and the median is not only the highests and also very far from the others prices.

 

Anyway, lets say you don't got that route, you can improve the UI in quite a couple of ways:

 

First fix the sorting: we should not be required to click again on price per unit while we sorted the last search by price per unit and the column filter is still highlighted. It's misleading and bit cumbersome.

 

Then allow players to set a max price per unit: for mats the price per stack is pretty much useless when sorting them.

 

Another way is to tweak the confirmation window displaying the price per unit for the mats.

 

Then you can also remove the decimals by rounding up the prices

 

 

Finally if you ever improve the clunky AH (BTW one of he worst MMO wide) have it so player can set a price per unit to sell mats, and also fix the search to automatically ignore 1 or 2 letters strings. Really expand the name search input box because most items names don't fit in it. And almost forgot, have the system remember last posted price for any items, be it client side.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Deewe

[anonnn]

There's nothing to fix since there's nothing broken.

...

As has been stated many times here: buyers aren't being careful for reasons like they've "been playing all day and are tired". ...

 

You're just playing rhetorically with the terminology. It's not about fixing something, it's about making GTN purchasing safer for buyers, whatever modifications that might require.

 

And the GTN Purchase Confirmation can't just be about protecting buyers when they're paying attention, it needs to be about protecting them also when they're NOT paying attention. It needs to be foolproof.

.

[Theeko]

Won't happen, just never buy or sell when your tired simple. Get rest and cycle through Credit Filter is as simple as its going to get.

[Fidelicatessen]

Common sense seems like very uncommon among pesky humans.

 

Fixed that for you.

[idnewton]

it didn't fly then and it shouldnt fly now IMO. This is an old tired argument from folks that are running out of ways to fight against QoL improvements in my eyes.

Yea, I woudn't bet on that.

 

Buyers will find something else to complain about

I don't get it. What side are you even arguing for? Are you just here to disagree with everyone?

[_NovaBlast_]

You're just playing rhetorically with the terminology. It's not about fixing something, it's about making GTN purchasing safer for buyers, whatever modifications that might require.

 

And the GTN Purchase Confirmation can't just be about protecting buyers when they're paying attention, it needs to be about protecting them also when they're NOT paying attention. It needs to be foolproof.

.

 

This jsut made me laugh.... you need a system in place so you don't have to pay attention .... You just proved how this without questions is the buyers fault LOL I hope the devs don't waste valuable content time with this I think these two posts go well together

 

 

 

Needs a bump...

 

So Bioware, are we going to get this fixed? Multiple suggestions on how to fix this have been posted...

 

You have unhappy customers...

who blame others for their mistake , can't take responsibility for their own actions lack even an atom sized amount of common sense , don't use the tools they a re given properly, are careless , don't pay attention to what they are doing and need you to fix the system to protect them from themselves .

 

 

Your statement was incomplete dont worry i fixed it for you .

Edited November 11, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[_NovaBlast_]

Double post when trying to edit Edited November 11, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[mokkh]

I haven't had any major GTN "accidents" myself, however I can very easily imagine how upsetting it would be to have lost millions trying to make an accurate GTN purchase and then having to debate this issue in the midst of the pervasive inane agenda of trying to shut the thread down just to silence it.

 

Lemme tell ya, it's not a good sign when so many people are willing to throw in to a sociopathic momentum of ignoring that people are getting totally screwed out of insanely huge amounts of credits just trying to make a routine purchase.

 

Here's a couple of dictionary.com links to help you classify these people's behavior:

 

fanatical : motivated or characterized by an extreme, uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

 

uncritical : undiscriminating; not applying or not guided by the standards of analysis

 

Sociopathic? Wow.

 

Here's a few links to help classify your statements:

Using sociopath to describe people who don't share your opinion is totally inappropriate and over the top tbh.

In fact, it qualifies as hyperbole.

 

I've made a few blunders on the GTN, after more than a few drinks. i.e. I have to be sedated in order to make the same mistake these people are complaining about.

 

I feel no sympathy for people who don't take the half a second processing time required to check the purchase before you confirm. I mean, really, you have to make 2 separate clicks.

 

It's a mistake made by people who aren't careful, so be careful. Especially if you have millions to lose.

 

Reminds me of several news stories about people who have won millions through the lottery and lost it all.

 

Those people who screw up, should be mad... at themselves.

 

Also, we need to take a reality check here, these are stories of losing simulated currency in a video game. No one is out of a home, they simply have to do more dailies. It's fake money.

 

It's amazing that the same GTN system has been in place for a ridiculously long time, and now... it's a scam?

 

So, sorry, I'm not a sociopath. Paid too much for stuff before, also bought stuff that people had clearly forgotten to add a 0 to their price and made out on a few buys. It's part of the system, learn to use it correctly and you won't feel cheated.

Edited November 11, 2014 by mokkh

[_NovaBlast_]

blank for now too many windows open Edited November 11, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[idnewton]

You're just playing rhetorically with the terminology. It's not about fixing something, it's about making GTN purchasing safer for buyers, whatever modifications that might require.

 

And the GTN Purchase Confirmation can't just be about protecting buyers when they're paying attention, it needs to be about protecting them also when they're NOT paying attention. It needs to be foolproof.

.

Really?

the GTN Purchase Confirmation can't just be about protecting buyers when they're paying attention, it needs to be about protecting them also when they're NOT paying attention. It needs to be foolproof.

Really????

 

SWTOR is not run by communists, nor should it be. Bioware's job is not to protect you from yourself. If you choose to be stupid, you suffer the consequences. Bioware does not exist for the role of big brother to hold your hand through everything you do.

 

You're asking Bioware to implement the perfect system which accomplishes all of the ideal goals with none of the drawbacks. It's laughable. Go ahead, design a confirmation dialog that reads players' minds.

[anonnn]

... are careless , don't pay attention to what they are doing and need you to fix the system to protect them from themselves.

...

 

You really are THIS close to understanding the correct philosophy of this issue, and becoming a supporter of the victims instead of an antagonizer.

 

To make GTN purchasing foolproof involves accepting that people are going to often be hurried & careless and simply click the wrong thing. The entire concept is to protect them from whatever mistakes are possible.

[_NovaBlast_]

You really are THIS close to understanding the correct philosophy of this issue, and becoming a supporter of the victims instead of an antagonizer.

 

To make GTN purchasing foolproof involves accepting that people are going to often be hurried & careless and simply click the wrong thing. The entire concept is to protect them from whatever mistakes are possible.

 

 

OMG>>>>> ok you have to be trolling now ..seriously .......please tell me you're trolling ..... wow .....

 

i have no sympathy at all for anyone who loses money on gtn with that attitude none ... you totally deserve it .

Its not bioware or anyone else responsibility to "protect you " from yourself ..... wow ........

Edited November 11, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[LordArtemis]

I don't get it. What side are you even arguing for? Are you just here to disagree with everyone?

 

I am here to represent one of the voices of reason in a sea of hyperbole on both sides.

Edited November 11, 2014 by LordArtemis

[_NovaBlast_]

I am here to represent the voice of reason in a sea of hyperbole on both sides.

 

no your trying to be a closet supporter and hide behind QFL argument and suggestions that create an unnecessary bloated system .

 

the system and tools are simple and work perfectly in where finding the lowest price is concerned when used with care and attention to detail

Edited November 11, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[idnewton]

Let's just put it this way, anonnn. The comments I want to make to you are not forum-appropriate. Let's leave it at that. Just quit while I still have a speck of faith in humanity, please... I beg you.

[idnewton]

I am here to represent one of the voices of reason in a sea of hyperbole on both sides.

 

And you try to accomplish that by disagreeing with everyone? Lol, GG.

 

*I* am the voice of reason. And the voice of reason says, if you make a choice of your own free will, the consequences of that choice are your own fault. You have no one to blame but yourself.

 

Therefore it stands to reason that if a player buys an item from the GTN and confirms the purchase, the player accepts the consequences of that purchase.

Edited November 11, 2014 by idnewton

[siegeshot]

Hey folks,

 

There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios.

 

What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for.

 

When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want.

 

With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

No it's a simple fix. Just allow ignore to be account-wide and carry over to the GTN.

 

Easy fix.

[mokkh]

no your trying to be a closet supporter and hide behind QFL argument .....really that's just an excuse in this case . there is no issues here other than other people incompetence

 

Go easy on Arty; he actually is a level-headed forumite and there is a reasonable QoL argument to be made concerning how the search first appears. I usually have to click the price per unit column to be able to sort alphabetically and it is somewhat annoying. However, I agree with you that the main focus of this thread seems to be to serve as a soapbox for incompetency.

[Vandicus]

Really?

 

Really????

 

SWTOR is not run by communists, nor should it be. Bioware's job is not to protect you from yourself. If you choose to be stupid, you suffer the consequences. Bioware does not exist for the role of big brother to hold your hand through everything you do.

 

You're asking Bioware to implement the perfect system which accomplishes all of the ideal goals with none of the drawbacks. It's laughable. Go ahead, design a confirmation dialog that reads players' minds.

 

Do you know what the word communist even means?

 

I swear, people like you make it much harder to actually discuss economic policy when people assume use of the word is simply for dramatic effect.

 

For an efficient market to operate, buyers cannot exist in a constant state of suspicion of sellers.There must be a reasonable degree of trust. This is advantageous to buyers AND sellers.

 

Would you like to run the possibility of rat meat in burgers? Who here wants to live in a country where there are no regulations on sanitation in the food industry?

 

The cost of certain basic regulations to effectively provide a guarantee of certain qualities is in fact conducive to conducting business. Screaming communist every time someone brings up something you dislike delegitimizes use of the word in pertinent discussions, namely excessive government control and involvement in business.

 

Arguing against QOL improvements that'd make the GTN easier and quicker to use is asinine. Why the devil is the first sort for price per unit the highest? That has no functional purpose. Decimal point differences per unit are not large enough to be a concern for purchasers, but force them to spend extra time searching and verifying to avoid being ripped off. Additionally no valid reason for left justifying prices.