Conquest and Screwing PVEr's

[GadgetDon]

I have a bunch of toons this week that won't get the Conquest goal because they don't have a crafting skill and I don't have time to run the amount of stuff needed to get them up outside of crafting and I don't care. It was my decision to not have redundant crafting skills (with one exception) and I can't expect that every week I will be able to reach Conquest goal on all or even most of my toons.

 

To expect every toon to be able to reach Conquest when those events differ so greatly is a bit absurd.

 

I'm not trying to reach Conquest goals on all my characters. Given I've got 20 or so, not a plan at all. But let's say the only one I wanted to get the goal was my Imperial. In fact, if I had to say "that one gets it", it would be the imperial, because she's the only one in a guild that is likely to be on the leaderboard and thus get the second award for herself and for the guild next Tuesday. She'd still be stuck in the same situation. Kayoss and Moonstruck having gotten the personal award aren't the reason she won't be reaching the goal.

 

Yes the goals will be different in the various weeks, and it will be easier for some, more difficult for others. When the first week rolls around, it's also going to be very difficult for her to achieve the goals. All I'm asking for is a repeatable activity to fall back on when her specializations don't match the current week.

Edited September 4, 2014 by GadgetDon

[GadgetDon]

BTW, if they feel they can't make flashpoints repeatable because it would make the servers explode and release chaos into the world, how about this for an idea:

 

If you didn't reach your personal goal in a week, roll the points into the next week towards your personal goal. No, they don't get to count twice towards the guild, only the points you earn in that week count towards the leaderboard. But if it takes two or three weeks to build up 25K or 35K points, let it accumulate. Encourages participation at all levels.

[Grayseven]

I'm not trying to reach Conquest goals on all my characters. Given I've got 20 or so, not a plan at all. But let's say the only one I wanted to get the goal was my Imperial. In fact, if I had to say "that one gets it", it would be the imperial, because she's the only one in a guild that is likely to be on the leaderboard and thus get the second award for herself and for the guild next Tuesday. She'd still be stuck in the same situation. Kayoss and Moonstruck having gotten the personal award aren't the reason she won't be reaching the goal.

 

Yes the goals will be different in the various weeks, and it will be easier for some, more difficult for others. When the first week rolls around, it's also going to be very difficult for her to achieve the goals. All I'm asking for is a repeatable activity to fall back on when her specializations don't match the current week.

 

Uh...

 

Golden Fury, 1000

 

Random Operations, at least two each week, 4000 points.

 

Nightmare Pilgrim, 2000

 

One FP, one HM FP, one Tac FP per day over the six days plus the two weeklies is 20000 points

 

4 Voss Heroics and 2 Makeb Heroics per day for 6 days plus the 250 opponents killed on each planet you should get just running the Heroics is 20000 points

 

Which means one toon can get 43000 Conquest plus an additional 2000 per random Operation and it looks like you might get 3 every now and then but I'd only count on two means you can get 47000 without crafting a thing this week.

 

Since you only need 25k you don't even have to work that hard for your personal goal.

[JustTrio]

Look at two weeks from now from an alts perspective.

 

16k from 4 ops (assuming you're on the right planet), no GF required.

 

HOWEVER, you have to be careful not to screw yourself out of the GF Ops by getting a lockout before the GF option becomes available (and you can only see the current and next options).

 

A possible 12k from GF Ops if you match everything up right. (and HOPE that the first two GF options are among the 4 for the week so you can plan them, otherwise you're waiting till, what, Thursday before you know what the final GF ops is during the conquest)

 

Oricon or Section-X: 3k from that Planet's weekly and 1k from the other weekly.

 

A possible 32k of once-a-week points per character if you get all 3 GF operations chances and run the other 4 ops. With a small bonus, you'd probably be set and it doesn't sound bad for a single character. I don't see myself running 40 ops in 6 days (though I did have a plan between crafting and Voss heroics this week to not burn out). I know most of my guildiies don't have enough alts to keep up with me, so, even if I could do that many operations, I'd end up pugging a lot of that which would greatly reduce the likelihood of me getting those 40 ops done.

 

Ooh, don't forget Crafting: 500 per War Supply (kind of back to being a slap in the face after this week).

[Slipfeed]

Just another in a long, long line of attempts by EA / Bioware to shoehorn the player base into PvP. Because at last count less than 3% of people playing SWTOR participated in more than 1 warzone per week, and more than half didn't participate in 1 warzone per month.

 

The answer to this has never been the obvious capitalist answer "Then stop focusing so much on pvp", but instead the supply side answer "Heard the sheep into the pen and they will stay there".

 

Or, put more diplomatically, "If we can just get them to try it, THEY'LL LIKE IT!"

 

Sadly, this kind of tactic works on a lot of people. Mostly morons. I haven't participated in a warzone since they added the warzone finder months before the PvE flashpoint group finder. It was a blatant attempt to heard the sheep to a style of play that is easier to develop for.

 

But it hasn't stopped there. The first HK part? In a pvp area! Of course it is! Cause if we can just get them to try it!!

 

Bioware, listen up. Stop trying to make SWTOR pvp happen. It isn't going to happen.

[JediMasterSLC]

Just another in a long, long line of attempts by EA / Bioware to shoehorn the player base into PvP. Because at last count less than 3% of people playing SWTOR participated in more than 1 warzone per week, and more than half didn't participate in 1 warzone per month.

 

The answer to this has never been the obvious capitalist answer "Then stop focusing so much on pvp", but instead the supply side answer "Heard the sheep into the pen and they will stay there".

 

Or, put more diplomatically, "If we can just get them to try it, THEY'LL LIKE IT!"

 

Sadly, this kind of tactic works on a lot of people. Mostly morons. I haven't participated in a warzone since they added the warzone finder months before the PvE flashpoint group finder. It was a blatant attempt to heard the sheep to a style of play that is easier to develop for.

 

But it hasn't stopped there. The first HK part? In a pvp area! Of course it is! Cause if we can just get them to try it!!

 

Bioware, listen up. Stop trying to make SWTOR pvp happen. It isn't going to happen.

 

I laughed so hard ty

[KJOhio]

Just another in a long, long line of attempts by EA / Bioware to shoehorn the player base into PvP. Because at last count less than 3% of people playing SWTOR participated in more than 1 warzone per week, and more than half didn't participate in 1 warzone per month.

 

The answer to this has never been the obvious capitalist answer "Then stop focusing so much on pvp", but instead the supply side answer "Heard the sheep into the pen and they will stay there".

 

Or, put more diplomatically, "If we can just get them to try it, THEY'LL LIKE IT!"

 

Sadly, this kind of tactic works on a lot of people. Mostly morons. I haven't participated in a warzone since they added the warzone finder months before the PvE flashpoint group finder. It was a blatant attempt to heard the sheep to a style of play that is easier to develop for.

 

But it hasn't stopped there. The first HK part? In a pvp area! Of course it is! Cause if we can just get them to try it!!

 

Bioware, listen up. Stop trying to make SWTOR pvp happen. It isn't going to happen.

 

Well put sir. Exactly my thoughts.

 

I think BW wants to force their failed PvP system on PVE players so they can cite the "growing" number of PvPers in this game. SWTOR PvP is worthless. It has gotten even worse after the conquest because most players are in it "just for the conquest points" and not for real PvP experience. This will drive the small community of dedicated PvP players away from the game even more - mark my words.

[Grayseven]

Well put sir. Exactly my thoughts.

 

I think BW wants to force their failed PvP system on PVE players so they can cite the "growing" number of PvPers in this game. SWTOR PvP is worthless. It has gotten even worse after the conquest because most players are in it "just for the conquest points" and not for real PvP experience. This will drive the small community of dedicated PvP players away from the game even more - mark my words.

 

Just how, pray tell, is the Conquest system "forcing PvP"?

 

It is easier and faster to get Conquest rewards through PvE even with the changes made. That isn't supposition, that is fact from someone who does both and it is much, much more rewarding to spend the time in various PvE activities...especially with a bunch of alts.

 

If people are jumping into PvP queues and not doing anything it is because they are lazy and ignorant, not because they get better rewards. I'd guess these are the standard "fleet trolls" that hang around on fleet waving their e-peen around in a failed attempt to make up for their short-comings in real life.

 

The guilds getting 15 million conquest points or more are not doing it through PvP.

[KJOhio]

Just how, pray tell, is the Conquest system "forcing PvP"?

 

It is easier and faster to get Conquest rewards through PvE even with the changes made. That isn't supposition, that is fact from someone who does both and it is much, much more rewarding to spend the time in various PvE activities...especially with a bunch of alts.

 

If people are jumping into PvP queues and not doing anything it is because they are lazy and ignorant, not because they get better rewards. I'd guess these are the standard "fleet trolls" that hang around on fleet waving their e-peen around in a failed attempt to make up for their short-comings in real life.

 

The guilds getting 15 million conquest points or more are not doing it through PvP.

 

PvP rewards are unlimited. I can do TC once, most big bonus PVE quests only once. Would yopu like to craft unlimited war supplies that will cost mats, or just join a pvp game and go get coffee while your team gets pwned? If I am lazy I would do pvp - no penalty at all - no repair costs, no penalty for doing nothing. Just conquest points (in most cases with bonus) plus money to boot. I would take it.

 

BTW, the PVE guilds getting millions of points (NO guild has made 15 million so you are just throwing numbers from your ***) have 200+ active players. And if you see this week's leader board, check out CZ198 - the top guild there is a pvp guild (I am not in it but I have lots of friends that are).

Edited September 7, 2014 by KJOhio

[LordArtemis]

PVP rewards for Conquest should be higher than PVE rewards IMO, since it is a war event. This is standard fare in most online games that have some kind of factional war feature or event.

 

Just my slant

[KJOhio]

PVP rewards for Conquest should be higher than PVE rewards IMO, since it is a war event. This is standard fare in most online games that have some kind of factional war feature or event.

 

Just my slant

 

Yes, in theory this should be. But if BW does this, they will make many PvE players upset. Basically they cant win

[LordArtemis]

Yes, in theory this should be. But if BW does this, they will make many PvE players upset. Basically they cant win

 

I understand that, and that is par for the course with any content that one does not care for since it does not favor a particular type of gameplay.

 

I personally do not PVP in this game at all. PVP content in ANY form is something that is useless to me. But I also recognize that PVP players need content, and this conquest system is a good example of that with the added bonus of PVE participation.

 

It's really just my slant on it.

[ivanhedgehog]

Just how, pray tell, is the Conquest system "forcing PvP"?

 

It is easier and faster to get Conquest rewards through PvE even with the changes made. That isn't supposition, that is fact from someone who does both and it is much, much more rewarding to spend the time in various PvE activities...especially with a bunch of alts.

 

If people are jumping into PvP queues and not doing anything it is because they are lazy and ignorant, not because they get better rewards. I'd guess these are the standard "fleet trolls" that hang around on fleet waving their e-peen around in a failed attempt to make up for their short-comings in real life.

 

The guilds getting 15 million conquest points or more are not doing it through PvP.

 

crafting is not pve. and the devs know that the fp change will push people to pvp. no, not holding a gun to their head. but setting the only playable repeatable content up as pvp. they know very well how gamers will react and acting like they dont know that this is "encouragement" to pvp is disingenuous.

[LordArtemis]

Unless they have directly stated "we did not design this to push folks to PVP", or something to that effect, the claim that they are being disingenuous is unfair IMO.

 

Now, if they did actually say this somewhere, the argument could have some merit depending on your point of view.

 

Until I see some kind of concrete statement to that effect however I am not going to assign intent without some kind of actual evidence to clearly illustrate that intent.

 

Note...it could be argued that have been less then truthful in the past IMO. To my knowledge the new dev team has been very forthcoming, but the prior dev team was accused of sharing a few whoppers here and there in the past. So I would not say they have never been dishonest....Im just trying to be fair here.

Edited September 8, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Slipfeed]

If someone reduces the price of item A to be half the price of item B intent can be safely assigned.

 

If someone increases the rewards for doing action A to ten times the rewards of action B there is sufficient implication of intent to infer.

 

Don't be a poopyhead.

 

 

Unless they have directly stated "we did not design this to push folks to PVP", or something to that effect, the claim that they are being disingenuous is unfair IMO.

 

Now, if they did actually say this somewhere, the argument could have some merit depending on your point of view.

 

Until I see some kind of concrete statement to that effect however I am not going to assign intent without some kind of actual evidence to clearly illustrate that intent.

 

Note...it could be argued that have been less then truthful in the past IMO. To my knowledge the new dev team has been very forthcoming, but the prior dev team was accused of sharing a few whoppers here and there in the past. So I would not say they have never been dishonest....Im just trying to be fair here.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

Except, in this case, the water is SWTOR PVP ( Urine ), and the horse is a human being ( You ). Now, obviously, you're not going to volunteer to drink urine from a trough. Well, unless you aren't smart enough to recognize it's urine, and are to blind to notice the huge lake of clean water (Steam) three feet to the left. But there are "people" like that. I digress.

 

So, you have to give the horse an incentive to gulp down the piss and like it.

 

They have been trying to do this for quite some time. There where entire patch's ( starting with 1.2 ) that changed core game mechanics in sweeping ways in order to "Fix pvp" ( especially healing). Most of that damage has been undone since the great player purge (see: sinking of the tortanic) that followed.

 

EA is a supply side corporation controlling the artistic direction of SWTOR for financial gain. They will always treat their customers like horses, and they will always try to serve up a trough of piss in exchange for money.

 

Where was I going with this?

 

Oh ya, don't pvp. Jeesus. If you want PvP go play Tera. Or GW2. Or just about anything besides this. FFS. Stop drinking your own urine.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Slipfeed
Got a bit out of control. Leaving the original at the bottom.

[JediMasterSLC]

If someone reduces the price of item A to be half the price of item B intent can be safely assigned.

 

If someone increases the rewards for doing action A to ten times the rewards of action B there is sufficient implication of intent to infer.

 

Don't be a poopyhead.

 

 

 

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

Except, in this case, the water is SWTOR PVP ( Urine ), and the horse is a human being ( You ). Now, obviously, you're not going to volunteer to drink urine from a trough. Well, unless you aren't smart enough to recognize it's urine, and are to blind to notice the huge lake of clean water (Steam) three feet to the left. But there are "people" like that. I digress.

 

So, you have to give the horse an incentive to gulp down the piss and like it.

 

They have been trying to do this for quite some time. There where entire patch's ( starting with 1.2 ) that changed core game mechanics in sweeping ways in order to "Fix pvp" ( especially healing). Most of that damage has been undone since the great player purge (see: sinking of the tortanic) that followed.

 

EA is a supply side corporation controlling the artistic direction of SWTOR for financial gain. They will always treat their customers like horses, and they will always try to serve up a trough of piss in exchange for money.

 

Where was I going with this?

 

Oh ya, don't pvp. Jeesus. If you want PvP go play Tera. Or GW2. Or just about anything besides this. FFS. Stop drinking your own urine.

 

mad cause bad

[LordArtemis]

I don't know. The problem here IMO is that Conquest is a war activity, is it not?

 

And if it is, one could assume that PVP would be the activity that would bring the most points, as it is with almost any other factional war feature in online games.

 

In most games where something like this is offered, PVP is the base, PVE contributes in some small form.

[Kissakias]

yeah I agree, 500 points per HM 55 flashpoint run seems fair. a HM flashpoint takes roughly as long as a PVP match to run. fairs fair

 

man a FPHM 55 isnt in a mill years runtime only 15 mins

in a WZ no matter what pug u are it ends in 15 mins top

something that never happend in a FPHM55 or in a FPHM 50

[Kissakias]

I don't know. The problem here IMO is that Conquest is a war activity, is it not?

 

And if it is, one could assume that PVP would be the activity that would bring the most points, as it is with almost any other factional war feature in online games.

 

In most games where something like this is offered, PVP is the base, PVE contributes in some small form.

 

conquest is a contest, a competition, not a war

competition can be done with many ways, not only via battle

[Zoom_VI]

man a FPHM 55 isnt in a mill years runtime only 15 mins

in a WZ no matter what pug u are it ends in 15 mins top

something that never happend in a FPHM55 or in a FPHM 50

 

Warzones are in practical terms longer, since you have to factor time in queue plus the couple minutes start up.

 

These past 2 events have not been PvP oriented assuming you didn't invade the planets that gave a bonus to the Warzone objective. Although I wonder if this coming week's event might be heavily PvP based since the ranked season also starts tomorrow.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[AlienEyeTX]

conquest is a contest, a competition, not a war

competition can be done with many ways, not only via battle

 

Conquest sounds an awful lot like war to me. I say make it PvP only!

[Khevar]

conquest is a contest, a competition, not a war

competition can be done with many ways, not only via battle

con·quest

noun

the subjugation and assumption of control of a place or people by use of military force.

"the conquest of the Aztecs by the Spanish"

 

Yeah, those conquistadors, they were just interested in a bit of friendly competition ...

Edited September 8, 2014 by Khevar

[TUXs]

Don't be a poopyhead.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

Except, in this case, the water is SWTOR PVP ( Urine ), and the horse is a human being ( You ). Now, obviously, you're not going to volunteer to drink urine from a trough.

You just put the "P" in PvP...

[Max_Killjoy]

Insulting may not be the word, but shortsighted is.

 

I don't PVP. Ever. In any game. Because in my experience way too many PVP players seem intent on making it an unpleasant activity if you aren't as "leet" as them. No, not all, but the times I've said "maybe I will try it, maybe it's gotten better", by the third opponent I get a ******* who seems less intent on the supposed point of the event and more on hurling abuse, using powers to make sure I can't even try to do anything, and so forth. So I don't PVP. Ever. In any game. I won't even go into PVP zones after being assured "not a problem, there's nobody there, you won't actually be engaging in PVP".

 

That's a choice. That's a choice this game supports. I set up on a PVE server to make my choice clear. I hold to my choice even when I could bend it a little and get some benefit.

 

You're saying that's not a legitimate choice, that I must be a PVPer to get the crafting and stronghold benefits that come from conquests. I disagree.

 

Very well said.

 

It's bad enough in PvE with the poachers and the griefers -- all my experience with PvP in other games tells me the concentration of jerk is higher there.

[TUXs]

conquest is a contest, a competition, not a war

competition can be done with many ways, not only via battle

Conquest

: the subjugation and assumption of control of a place or people by use of military force

: the act of taking control of a country, city, etc., through the use of force

: a country, city, etc., that an army has taken control of through the use of force

 

What kinda competitions are YOU participating in?

Edited September 8, 2014 by TUXs